Do you think people set their sights on the impossible?

[D-Jam]

My buddy has been trying to meet women through some meetups. He joined a local singles group and has been taking part in the events, as well as some other non-singles/dating kinds of meetup groups.

 

Last night on the phone, he was telling me about how it seems most of the events are all men, and when women show up, many of them just look around, remain anti-social, leave early, and never return. Even one supposedly left feedback on their meetup page claiming how all the guys looked blah and she then put out the usual "where are all the decent men??"

 

I've seen both genders speak like this. Men talking in terms of how it seems most of the women they meet are obese, have kids, are "blah" looking, and even many of these guys say how they'll shop for younger women to "catch them before they mess themselves up", and they're speaking both in terms of physical and emotional.

 

Women I've seen do the same. They'll rag about how they can't seem to meet a guy who is in great physical shape, has a full head of hair, is tall enough, wants to commit, etc.

 

It makes me wonder if many members of both genders have it in their minds that there is some magic realm of models and athletes who are all single, and thus no one they see in the real world is ever "decent enough" in their eyes. Like they're all holding out for some better deal to come along, when it most likely won't.

 

I'm lucky I found a nice girl, but even I felt that I didn't sit there holding out for some wild expectation. Yes a athletically slender long hair brunette with a nice rack and a career is awesome, but my short-haired blonde with a heart of gold and beautiful eyes stole my heart just as well. I don't feel that I settled in any way, but I think a lot of the single world is out there thinking that it's settling to try out Joe or Jane Average than to hold out for the "athletes" and "models" that it seems many pursue.

 

What do you all think? Is society in general just setting their sights on the impossible? Do you think the media has any blame in making many believe they should look for models and/or athletes?

[Chinook]

Yep... and add into the mix... the older you get and remain single, there must surely be something wrong with you. Riiiight.

 

Personally, I'm waiting for Mr. Takeyourtime. Not Mr. Right. Not Mr. Right now. Not Mr. Perfect. When Mr TYT shows up... I will know that he may not be perfect, he may not look like a catwalk model, he may even have flaws I won't like... like a pot tummy... but if he takes his time to get to know me and make an effort in a relationship, if he takes his time to care about me and my flaws as well as my strengths... that'll do for me.

[carhill]

After being in court this morning, I think I'll take to wandering the courthouse halls a bit more often

 

Topically, I was single until I was 41. I invariably maintained women were of a decent sort who for whatever reason just didn't find me compatible. I still maintain that perspective. I can't change them so just live my life on my terms and perhaps one who does find me compatible will wander into it. My wife, IMO, was too concerned with her "shopping list" to really see me for who I was, hence our issues 8 years later. I still think she's a decent sort, but largely incompatible. We'll see

[Lovegod]

most of the events are all men, and when women show up, many of them just look around, remain anti-social, leave early, and never return.

 

People who rely on these "meetups" to meet men and women are looking for a quick fix because they don't have the balls to approach members of the opposite sex. They expect the organizer to do all the work and make the magic happen. When they show up at these things, there is no magic and the organizer gets rich.

 

I've seen both genders speak like this. Men talking in terms of how it seems most of the women they meet are obese, have kids, are "blah" looking, and even many of these guys say how they'll shop for younger women to "catch them before they mess themselves up", and they're speaking both in terms of physical and emotional.

 

When you're competing with others to catch a member of the opposite sex, you should work at being your very best. If you're fat, lose the weight. If you have no personality, work at creating one. If you expect to get a decent catch while being of sub-par quality, you're going to get a sub-par catch. And then you're going to bitch about how there isn't anybody decent out there.

[D-Jam]

Great stuff Lovegod...totally in agreement.

[Adamagnet]

What do you all think? Is society in general just setting their sights on the impossible? Do you think the media has any blame in making many believe they should look for models and/or athletes?

 

Our culture expressed through media definitely influences some of the traits we find attractive, but I also think it has an effect on what we believe the average value of attractiveness is. I am willing to bet the average American "sees" more people through various media forms than he/she does in real life, so we may subconciously believe that there are more highly attractive individuals in our immediate environment because of this constant exposure through, TV, movies, print, etc... With such a skewed concept, it's no surprise that many are always looking to trade up.

[D-Jam]

Our culture expressed through media definitely influences some of the traits we find attractive, but I also think it has an effect on what we believe the average value of attractiveness is. I am willing to bet the average American "sees" more people through various media forms than he/she does in real life, so we may subconciously believe that there are more highly attractive individuals in our immediate environment because of this constant exposure through, TV, movies, print, etc... With such a skewed concept, it's no surprise that many are always looking to trade up.

Very cool response.

 

Probably also why so many are single, unhappy, but yet keep the "I will never settle" front or the "I don't need anyone" front.

[Adamagnet]

Very cool response.

 

Probably also why so many are single, unhappy, but yet keep the "I will never settle" front or the "I don't need anyone" front.

 

It could be also one of the reasons why some people are unhappy in their relationships...

 

There are probably three primary competing behavioral patterns to cope with the perception of an increasingly attractive population: isolation, settling and serial dating. With the modern advent of birth control, I'm guessing the settling behavior will be selected for, so eventually media will have less of an impact. In some ways it is unfortunate that cultures and technology evolve faster than brain phenotypes, because we will always be confronted with these types of social psychological issues. We have nothing to blame, but the human condition itself.

[You'reasian]

Yep... and add into the mix... the older you get and remain single, there must surely be something wrong with you. Riiiight.

 

Personally, I'm waiting for Mr. Takeyourtime. Not Mr. Right. Not Mr. Right now. Not Mr. Perfect. When Mr TYT shows up... I will know that he may not be perfect, he may not look like a catwalk model, he may even have flaws I won't like... like a pot tummy... but if he takes his time to get to know me and make an effort in a relationship, if he takes his time to care about me and my flaws as well as my strengths... that'll do for me.

 

Sounds like you know what you like and are mature about it. Very nice.

[monkey00]

People who rely on these "meetups" to meet men and women are looking for a quick fix because they don't have the balls to approach members of the opposite sex. They expect the organizer to do all the work and make the magic happen. When they show up at these things, there is no magic and the organizer gets rich.

 

couldn't agree more. Once I was at a bar/lounge and that same night, they were hosting a speed dating thing in the lounge area. It was pretty obvious what was going on and that the organizer was milking their money. But you can't blame him entirely because people have to make an effort also.

 

I think it's just society and the media's fault. People want to stay single longer, have multiple relationships, and not settle down to get married. I know many many married couples stretching from their 20's to their 40's who still do not have children...maybe that has nothing to do with searching for the impossible but..it's just a sign that times are changing.

[popey]

I'll add two more to the pot.

 

1. People are positive reinforcement for dating someone attractive. I have dated men of very varying degrees of the general standard of attractiveness. With the more attractive ones: female friends got giddy, and found a corny joke cute, and were more positive about his qualities and more forgiving about his shortcomings . the men wanted to hang w/ him- and couples were more anxious to hang w/ us. (especially business friends).

 

2. rejection: think people may be ok w/ the idea that they could fall for and live happily ever after w/ someone who is not so special for others to look at if the person makes them happy. But in terms of making the first attempt- at the end of the night- if you go home having been shot down by the hottest person in the place- oh well- he/she WAS in fact super hot. But if you tried w/ someone that no one else if fawning over, and STILL got shot down... uh oh... how undesirable are you?! ya know? That's more serious ego risk.

[Lovegod]

I think it's just society and the media's fault. People want to stay single longer, have multiple relationships, and not settle down to get married.

 

While I do agree that this kind of thing has to do with the media, I don't think it has anything to do with anybody actually wanting to stay single longer. The media has portrayed women in an interesting light, making them an incredibly difficult but desirable thing to behold. They have also made women more aggressive in that a woman will reject a guy asking her out by slapping him.

 

Men have also been portrayed as needing to spend money and look good in order to get a 'impress' a woman enough to have her go out with him. For those who actually ARE good at attracting women, they realize that women are not that aggressive, that you don't need to spend money, and that you don't have to be the most attractive guy alive in order to get yourself a date.

 

The media trys to show itself as a reflection of society, when it's actually a reflection of what people THINK society is and should be.

[D-Jam]

Lovegod, when I read Unhooked Generation, I will say Jillian Strauss gave some great examples of how the media does portray marriage as a horrible thing and singledom as a wonderful thing. Everything from Sex and the City to Everybody Loves Raymond and Married With Children. We don't see a lot of portrayals of good happy relationships or marriages. We see both dramas such as 90210 and reality shows where people play games and cheat. Society is told to death that commitment is bad and being single and swinging is awesome.

 

I'm not saying this is the total reason, but you especially see all the times Ray Romano is in problems with his wife to the squabbles Al and Peg go through to especially a SATC episode about a baby shower...it just keeps sending a message out there that being single is the way to be and "marriage + baby = death".

 

I don't believe that...but it is a more accurate depiction of how much the media seems to push society to stay single.

[Lovegod]

D-Jam, while that is an excellent point, I really don't think people are going to take sitcoms all that seriously since they exist solely for comedic purposes and to poke fun at reality rather than portray it.

 

On the flipside of those examples, we have the love songs, Disney, and fairy tales which work to mould children into adults. Love songs tell of people lost in love, how one should sacrifice one's self for a woman, and Disney's portrayal of the woman who meets her prince and lives happily ever after. Another thing that seems to dictate how men and women should behave is pure advertisment. She deserves that diamond ring from Fred's Jewelers, a woman will always be happy with candy and flowers on Valentine's day, nobody says "I love you" better than Hallmark, and you'll always land a beautiful woman when you've got a brand new Corvette.

[vesper16]

Interesting thread. I am happy to admit I fall into the category of those with ridiculously high standards, I would say I am fairly idealistic, but comfortable being so.

 

It's a curious one, I do believe that love is out there, somewhere, but I think part of the reason why we set our standards high is to protect ourselves to some degree, to avoid falling for the wrong person. There are those who are truly comfortable with the idea of staying single until they find the 'right' person, but there is often a fine line between this and being single, unhappy, keeping up the "I don't need anyone" front (thanks D-Jam). That said, I think it's normal to get the occasional pangs when you're single (as opposed to bitching about how there's no-one decent out there), we all have a desire for intimacy with someone we find attractive.

 

I think Lovegod put it best though when he said the following:

 

When you're competing with others to catch a member of the opposite sex, you should work at being your very best. If you're fat, lose the weight. If you have no personality, work at creating one.If you expect to get a decent catch while being of sub-par quality, you're going to get a sub-par catch. And then you're going to bitch about how there isn't anybody decent out there.

 

Somehow, those words really resonated with me after I went out for dinner with some friends last night. It was a fairly chilled gathering, mixture of single folks, a couple of girls brought their boyfriends. I really enjoyed the conversations we were having over dinner, but I did get a bit lonely up near the end of the table where the couples were, dare I say a little needy, not having a gf...I have a fair idea as to why (a recent bout of one-itis that developed into a pretty major crush on a girl at uni that ended up being kinda embarrassing... 'nuff said).

 

Anyhoo, Lovegod's post made me reflect on myself. Generally I am pretty comfortable about who I am -- I used to be quite shy as a teenager, almost social-phobic if you wish, it's something I've largely grown out of as I've gotten older, and I've learned to let more of my personality out in social gatherings, generally making a positive impression on people, but I still haven't quite gotten the confidence when it comes to attracting women, and am not totally rid of the social awkwardness. Sorta reminds me of this little excerpt from 'The Game' by Neil Strauss (the guy who became a master pick-up artist):

 

"All the things you learned from the PUAs almost made us not come together," Lisa continued. "I want you to be just Neil, balding, nerdy, glasses, and all."

 

Maybe she was right. Perhaps she would have liked the real me. But she never would have had the opportunity to meet him if I hadn't spent the last two years learning how to put my best foot forward.

 

(p.434)

 

Oh, and there ain't nothing wrong with listening to love songs. They include some of the most beautifully-written songs of all time. Possibly one of the most complete love songs ever is Death Cab For Cutie's "I Will Follow You Into The Dark". Of course, if that's ALL you listen to, then I'd be asking serious questions...

[Bells]

When you're competing with others to catch a member of the opposite sex, you should work at being your very best. If you're fat, lose the weight. If you have no personality, work at creating one.If you expect to get a decent catch while being of sub-par quality, you're going to get a sub-par catch. And then you're going to bitch about how there isn't anybody decent out there.

 

Been looking for this thread....been meaning to get back to answer.....

 

The above is a good point and is a good argument...however....this is not the usual case.

 

If there are things that are beyond our control...say if you're a shorter man....and the woman's "Unrealistic Expectation" is that he MUST be 6 feet or taller (regardless if she's 5'0"), she will NOT date that guy...or if you're born with certain physical features that you can't (other than cosmetic surgery) do anything about...like a big nose, male pattern baldness, things genetically inherited.

 

I could say I would only date women with BIG boobs, but it won't stop me if she's an A-cup.

 

That's the problem with single people....and most single people do, from time to time, reach a time in their life where they will indeed be frustrated and around a meal with their friends, "Why can't I find a decent guy??!!" Of course, her friends look at each other, since they know her pretty well, and give her the hardcore advice "Well, you could start reconsidering your standards."

 

What's funny is, me personally....it doesn't take much for me to be physically attracted to a woman.

 

There'd be women I'd email or ask out that I know general society wouldn't give her a 2nd look....but I would think she's kind of cute, she might have a little weight on her, or something....and even a woman like HER would reject me.

 

Figure that one out, eh? I'm asking average Janes out...and they aren't interested.

 

To be honest, my theory is that she is attracted to me, but she thinks she could do better. ALWAYS the "Bigger Better Deal".

 

There had been times where rather plain or average looking women would email me back and go, "Sorry, but I'm not physically attracted"

 

Though I would be an ass if I said, "Really? Have you looked in a mirror lately?" So I bite my tongue. These women want the "David Bekhams" of this world....it's crazy.

[fral945]

What do you all think? Is society in general just setting their sights on the impossible? Do you think the media has any blame in making many believe they should look for models and/or athletes?

 

I think it's hard to deny expectations are higher. It is a product of the society we live in. There are a multitude of factors I think that contribute to increased expectations, but a few big ones I'd point out are:

 

1) Lifespan - we live longer, and therefore live longer with our spouses.

2) Freedom - we are a freer society (especially for women) and now have more choice in relationship partners and fewer arranged marriages. Women especially don't have to put up with abusive men

3) Options - We are a more global society and have access to more partners. Even just 100 or 200 yrs ago, you would likely have only had regular access to women in your town or village. Modern transportation allows people to find and have regular partners many miles away

4) Marriage - The original purpose of marriage (at least that was common to all societies) was having children and creating family ties. It was much less about the individual and more about what benefited society. Now love, romance, sexual gratification, etc. are a much more prominent part of the equation because we live in a society where the individual's needs are greater than the groups.

5) Upbringing - Our generation has been raised to have greater expectations (which is probably true of all generations)

 

I'd say the media can't be blamed for the 1) or 2) as they are just natural progressions. I would be less choosy too if I knew I probably wasn't going to live into my 50s and 60s, sent off to war and possibly not come back, or my wife would die at childbirth. And regarding freedom, I know there are many women who stayed in abusive marriages that don't have to put up with it anymore.

 

OTOH, I definitely the media has a part in 3), 4), and a little bit of 5). TV, internet, etc. all make us realize (or think) that there are so many options out there compared to what we have nearby. And we are constantly bombarded by the same images (which are usually the idealized ones and may not be all that common in reality).

 

Also, it's not a surprise that marriage and long term relationship are more difficult. Just look at the lists some of the posters on here have made about what they want in a spouse. Do you think most people 100 or 200 years ago had a list that big? They may have thought about some of those things, but I doubt many actually thought it was realistically achievable. I can tell you my generation has been raised to expect more not only out of partners, but life in general (i.e., houses, cars, jobs, etc).

 

In almost anything in life, the greater your expectations and standards the more often you will be disappointed and have fewer options. IMO, the human being is insatiable and selfish by nature and it is a good thing to put that insatiability and selfishness in check and learn to accept certain things in life. Otherwise, you will have a society of lonely, miserable people always wanting, expecting, and demanding more from their partners. Of course, that goes against the capitalistic society we live in, which is about never being happy with what you have, always wanting more, and creating artificial wants and needs to meet your ever increasing expectations.

 

I could say more, but I'm tired of writing now. Just my 2 cents.

[Lovegod]

Figure that one out, eh? I'm asking average Janes out...and they aren't interested.

 

Forgive me for the generalization, but this is one thing that I've notice that is consistant... Women are generally attracted to the same things and the same kinds of men. (Yes, I know there's the one "different" girl, but she's not the focus here.) When you find what it is that they're attracted to, you work at making that your best quality.

 

To basically sum up that one thing, it's confidence that women are generally attracted to (for men, it's looks.) Women can get down-right competitive and nasty when many of them become attracted to one man. I've seen them hurl insults at each other, giving scowls to others, and there's always one who is brave enough to take what she wants and do it before any of the other women have a chance. If you ever see one guy in a room who has many women attracted to him, watch how the women interact with each other. It's really quite interesting!

 

And women, no matter how good or bad they look, no matter how tall or short they are, no matter how fat or skinny they may be, will always be attracted to a highly confident man. But this is generally the same on the other side of the coin: women are generally NOT attracted to the same things as well. An insecure man who is constantly wanting to prove himself worthy of attention may get some pity, but will make friendships rather than relationships with women.

 

Personal preference about his height or hair color is just that, a preference. But when a woman has a stunning male in front of her, those personal preferences get pushed by the wayside. She's more interested in how this guy make her feel, and that's what counts. The problem is, men usually can't figure out how to make a woman feel. Candy and flowers don't make her feel sexy. Depending on the stigma she sees attached to these mere items, she may feel pampered, confused, or even stupid.

 

It's never about the gifts, it's about the man and how he makes her feel.

 

That's probably the best way I can describe the whole thing without offending the women here.

[KismetGirl]

My buddy has been trying to meet women through some meetups. He joined a local singles group and has been taking part in the events, as well as some other non-singles/dating kinds of meetup groups.

 

Last night on the phone, he was telling me about how it seems most of the events are all men, and when women show up, many of them just look around, remain anti-social, leave early, and never return. Even one supposedly left feedback on their meetup page claiming how all the guys looked blah and she then put out the usual "where are all the decent men??"

 

I've seen both genders speak like this. Men talking in terms of how it seems most of the women they meet are obese, have kids, are "blah" looking, and even many of these guys say how they'll shop for younger women to "catch them before they mess themselves up", and they're speaking both in terms of physical and emotional.

 

Women I've seen do the same. They'll rag about how they can't seem to meet a guy who is in great physical shape, has a full head of hair, is tall enough, wants to commit, etc.

 

It makes me wonder if many members of both genders have it in their minds that there is some magic realm of models and athletes who are all single, and thus no one they see in the real world is ever "decent enough" in their eyes. Like they're all holding out for some better deal to come along, when it most likely won't.

 

I'm lucky I found a nice girl, but even I felt that I didn't sit there holding out for some wild expectation. Yes a athletically slender long hair brunette with a nice rack and a career is awesome, but my short-haired blonde with a heart of gold and beautiful eyes stole my heart just as well. I don't feel that I settled in any way, but I think a lot of the single world is out there thinking that it's settling to try out Joe or Jane Average than to hold out for the "athletes" and "models" that it seems many pursue.

 

What do you all think? Is society in general just setting their sights on the impossible? Do you think the media has any blame in making many believe they should look for models and/or athletes?

 

I think for some people, they do have an unrealistic view of the perfect person, BUT, I think that perfect person is different for everyone too.

 

Take me, for instance. If you ask my friends and family, they'd say Im too picky, whatever that means.

 

I go out on dates all the time, and 99% of the time do not find myself attracted to the other person. Now, physical attraction is part of the equation, but what I am really searching for is that "spark", that chemistry, just clicking with someone. Obviously, as you get to know someone, you can either like them MORE, or decide you DON'T like them as much, but I don't think it is often the case where you meet someone, have NO spark or chemistry from the get go, and then grow that spark. It's either there, and gets more intense, or its there and then you lose it. You can't grow it from nothing.

 

I went out on a date with this guy in Monday. He's 31, single, Yale undergad , Harvard medical degree, a doctor working in several prestigious hospitals in the city, owns his own apartment in a great area, well traveled, speaks five languages, easy going, generally a nice guy....and, thinks that I am drop dead gorgeous and wonderful. All good points right? Right. And still, I have no interest in hanging out with him again. I just didn't feel that connection that I personally need with someone. yes , Im not that physically attracted to him, but that isnt the whole problem. The last guy I dated, for all intensive purposes, didn't fit every physical quality I normally go for, BUT, we had a distinct chemistry from the first time we spoke that made me like him right away. If I just saw him walking down the street I'd think, meh, nothing special, but we had the overall connection going.

 

THAT's what I keep looking for, and that is a rare thing to really find with someone......the love of my life is someone I am currently involved with in an affair. He is married. I am not. I've never felt this strongly about anyone in my entire life, he has everything I could want in someone, except being single. But thats life isn't it.....you know what they say. All the good ones are taken or gay ;-)

 

Just kidding. But seriously, a real connection with another human being is a very rare, hard to find thing, which is why, I think, most people get so frustrated, and they don't understand why they can't just feel that positive way about someone they meet, so they wonder, why might that be, and decide to blame it on "oh there's no good looking ones out there" or whatnot, but really, its just that its very hard to find someone to feel that connection with at all. Make sense?

[Lovegod]

I just didn't feel that connection that I personally need with someone.

 

Thank you for that post KismetGirl, you've just proven my point

[KismetGirl]

Thank you for that post KismetGirl, you've just proven my point

 

Now, which point did I prove, exactly? I thought I was being rather confusing and vague, actually. I need attraction, but not sure what constitutes it. Combo of mental, physical.......that oh-so-ambiguous feeling we call a 'spark'

 

Love is all very confusing, if you ask me.

[Lovegod]

I thought I was being rather confusing and vague, actually.

 

...and that's why you're so darn loveable

[Woggle]

Yes. People have twisted perceptions of reality and fail to realize that life is not some 24/7 romance novel and if you expect that you will never find love. I don't think that most people these days are built for a healthy relationship that lasts because they think life is supposed to be like the movies.

[KismetGirl]

...and that's why you're so darn loveable

 

I am loveable dammit. They all love me. I never love them back. It's a hard life, being perfect, you know. To find compatible perfection? Impossible it seems! Meh. :bunny::bunny::bunny::bunny::bunny:

[Trialbyfire]

I think Iggy Pop put it best in Cry for Love, about the media:

 

"The TV that insults me freely..."

 

If anyone is allowing the media to define what they need or want, there's something wrong in their cognitive abilities. Also, if you've ever watched an episode of SATC, of which I've watched one or two, I doubt people honestly believe that life is exactly like that silly show. Sure there are some things you can relate to but I think everyone knows it's entertainment and an exaggeration, in order to amuse.

 

As for expectations, if you have many expectations or criteria for a mate, you're going to limit your dating pool. I say...so what? People don't need to mercy date.