Should Murderers Have The Option of Requesting the Death Penalty?

[Dark-N-Romantic]

Geisha, I would love for you to point out places in the Bible where God stopped execusions. You claim I am twisting the word, yet, in the Bible I point out these very facts. Even Jesus Christ did NOT say not to punish criminals. He was not hear to save us from the consequences of the physical laws that govern us, but to all the spirit to find reprieve of its sins. He never condemned the killing of a person who commited willful murder. If, Jesus really wanted the deaths of certain criminals ended, he would of said so.

 

Oh, and to give you a little information... I am well versed on the Bible for I discuss my thoughts and ideas with others who have more experience in it than me. So, I can confidently say that I am NOT twisting the words of the Bible to fit my needs.

 

I think the problem is that too many people believe that God and Jesus and the Bible is all about this huggy, kissy, good thing. I hate to destroy your illusions, but God is a very sever being. God flooded a WHOLE world to get ride of the evil that perverted it. He is going to bring so much death, destruction, and torment on the Earth in His time of cleansing. And if you take the words in the Bible so truly, those who are NOT in His came is going to burn in the lake of fire and brimstone for eternity.

 

I take the words I say about God and the Bible very seriously, especially in Revelation about what will happen to those false profits and perverters of His word.

 

 

DNR

[Dark-N-Romantic]

Well, that is what people tend to think about those Christians whose denominations or ideology are vastly different then their own. (Hence, the whole 'No true Scottsman' phrase that tends to get flung around.) There are so many different flavors of Christianity that I would be surprised if there weren't Christians out there who would consider your beliefs to be all wrong too.

 

The Old Testiment DOES apply today. Jesus Christ never said it didn't. We are still to worship God as the head of our lives. We are still to pay tithes and offerings. We are still to love our neighbors. All the things in the 10 Commandments that govern our lives as Christians still hold true. All God did was take away the animal sacrifices that the Jews had to do. He now deals with each and everyone of us individually, not through some high priest. All the knowledge and powers God's chosen had is not available to all those who believe and walk the path.

 

The various flavors you talk about Broken comes from a disagreement in wording and rituals. Even the Bible talks about the split of Paul and one of the other disciples. This did not mean that either was wrong, but each had to walk a different path in order to accomplish what God had planned for them. How two people decide to take the same truth is all dependant on each one's level of understanding, life experiences, and the path on which they walk. So, it is easy for two people to read the same scripture and receive a different revelation, yet still proceed on the right path.

 

This is why it is neither right or wrong to end the life of those who willingly murder others. But, it is left up to each one's own conscious, spirituality/ morality, ethics, and experiences.

 

 

DNR

[Eve]

No, I do not think that murderers should be able to request the death penalty. Next thing we will be allowing others who are imprisoned to choose varying types of cells dependant on how much they wish to punish themselves!

 

DNR.. man you are so harsh! You are behaving as though you have been brain washed. Noone can take command of Scripture to the point where they hate their brother so much that they will allow him to choose an undignified death. Thats not Jesus.

 

Of course, I cant defend the OT at all here ..

 

I dont believe that God needs us to defend Him in such a manner. I do believe that we must protect ourselves because people do sell out others alarmingly quickly when push comes to shove. BUT the whole point of faith surely is that we have a greater answer within restraint, compassion, love and perserverance according to the Grace of God?

 

I come before God to learn how to love. I come before Him to ask for forgiveness and strength to surpass my limitations and He answers. When a person who has never known love comes before such a heart they crumble. Some are too ill/crazy/deluded to understand but they are still people and we must act as if that person is our very own self.

 

Tsk.. I hate the form of Christianity which makes people act like Gods instead of helping others to hear Gods voice, because I do believe that He does speak to us all in various ways..

 

This is why the Church and state MUST remain seperate. The problems which people have must be judged by their peers, no matter the crime.

[Citizen Erased]

No, they shouldn't be murdered by the state. They can take their own life if they feel that bad about what they have done.

[Taramere]

No, they shouldn't be murdered by the state. They can take their own life if they feel that bad about what they have done.

 

That's pretty much how I feel, except I'd go that touch further. I'd get the state to provide suicide counselling which would help the worst offenders towards that difficult decision of swallowing the barbiturate cocktail (also state provided). It would all be done in good taste. The barbiturate cocktail would be flavoured like banana daiquiri, with a cute little umbrella in it...shaken up and served with a grand flourish and a cheery smile by a Tom Cruise impersonator.

[Trialbyfire]

I'm uncertain why it matters who takes the life, as long as the executioner is willing. Beyond religion, there's no other reason. I don't see a willing executioner caring too much about anyone's soul, including his/her own.

[IrishCarBomb]

Why kill the criminal? What benefit is gained from his death?

 

I cannot understand the logic of why the person should be executed. From taking the most humane mindset to the most cold, I cannot find a sound reason to kill the prisoner.

[EnigmaXOXO]

I was reading a story today about a man convicted of murdering two children, injuring of a third child, and raping and injuring the mother of the children over her interference with his relationship with a friend of her's.

 

You’re saying this so-called human being slaughtered two innocent children and beat up another just because his wife wouldn’t mind her own business?

 

I think people need to redefine for themselves exactly what separates this particular Homo sapien from any other rabid animal the SPCA would put down as a courtesy to the public. And being bipedal doesn’t count.

 

If you’re asking for a vote, then mine is “Heck yeah!” As a matter of fact, let them bring in the paddles so they can give it to him TWICE ... once for each one of those poor children who weren’t so fortunate to be punished with a sentence to “life.”

[Enema]

Why kill the criminal? What benefit is gained from his death?

 

Well the benefits should be pretty obvious:

 

1) Monetary - The state doesn't have to pay for his continued incarceration

2) Justice - The victims / their family may feel better knowing he's gone

3) Human Rights - The criminal wants it.

 

I'm all for capital punishment. I know of no valid reason against it.

[Quinch]

Whatever the crime, the criminal has no right to dictate his own sentence or anything else. If the court has decided that he should serve a jail term then he must serve a jail term. I suspect that in this case, he views death as an easy and early way out of paying for his crime. He suffers more by being kept alive.

[Geishawhelk]

Beyond religion, there's no other reason.

 

Given that this is the fundamaental basis of any legal system, (The foundation of Western Laws rest upon Religious constructs and guidelines!) this is precisely why it should not be done.

[D-Lish]

define unequivocally that a child molester has comitted such a crime and I am all for watching and being satisfied with his death.

 

That's always going to be the problem with the death penalty and our laws. Until we can say without any refute "like Oh my gawd....he's so guilty"... We should never take it upon on our justice system to kill someone.

 

I do feel that if someone wishes to die upon their own accord that they be given the chance to do so in front of a jury of their peers.

 

If it's not definitive- there is no room for any margin of error.

[IrishCarBomb]

Well the benefits should be pretty obvious:

 

1) Monetary - The state doesn't have to pay for his continued incarceration

2) Justice - The victims / their family may feel better knowing he's gone

3) Human Rights - The criminal wants it.

 

I'm all for capital punishment. I know of no valid reason against it.

 

Disagree entirely.

 

1) Monetary (very cold logic): The gains from keeping the human asset alive could greatly outweigh the costs. Killing the human destroys him, there is nothing left. Instead of wasting his potential, he should be forced to be productive. After all, his life doesn't matter. He has been deemed so awful that he doesn't have a right to his own life. As a result, his life should be used to benefit society. Think of the benefits of using these people for medical testing. They could potentially make the rest of society much better off.

 

2) Justice: Justice is only served if the form of punishment is valid (i.e. retribution, rehabilitation, or deterrence for "wrong" behavior). Capital punishment doesn't serve any of these. The victim/family may feel better? Please... such emotional pandering and bias is no foundation of justice, rather just an extreme desire for revenge.

 

3) Human Rights: The criminal wants it? This is a justification? I'm sure many criminals want to be freed, but we don't grant that in the interest of human rights. Killing him accomplishes nothing to serve human rights.

 

You seriously can't see any valid reason against it? Are you just talking about the case when criminals request it? I mean, the potential of wrongful execution alone should be a valid reason against it.

[BubblyPopcorn]

I personally think the man you are referring to gave up all his rights when he murdered his own children. But that's just my opinion.

[Trialbyfire]

Instead of wasting his potential, he should be forced to be productive. After all, his life doesn't matter. He has been deemed so awful that he doesn't have a right to his own life.

You can't make a felon do what he refuses to do.

 

As a result, his life should be used to benefit society. Think of the benefits of using these people for medical testing. They could potentially make the rest of society much better off.

I could get behind this.

 

The only problem is that the same people who value human lives above all, will protest the inhuman treatment of felons. It's kind of ironical that the same people are comfortable torturing felons for decades, in prison.

[burning 4 revenge]

If people don't want to live, why should they be made to live? Whether by suicide or assisted, it's their choice.

And this is why you approve of gay marriage and abortion

 

Do you see the pattern?

[Trialbyfire]

And this is why you approve of gay marriage and abortion

 

Do you see the pattern?

I believe in civil liberties. I also don't value human life above everything else or believe in controlling the world.

 

Did I catch all the patterns?

[burning 4 revenge]

I believe in civil liberties. I also don't value human life above everything else or believe in controlling the world.

 

Did I catch all the patterns?

No

 

The pattern is dehumanization

[Trialbyfire]

No

 

The pattern is dehumanization

Wrong. The pattern is that I don't need to control everything everyone does. Let live.

[burning 4 revenge]

Wrong. The pattern is that I don't need to control everything everyone does. Let live.

.....except for unborn children and people who feel hopeles...

[Trialbyfire]

.....except for unborn children and people who feel hopeles...

Must we get into the debate of when the fertilized egg becomes human?

 

If people want to die, that's their choice. Who are you to say they can't? Is your name God?

[burning 4 revenge]

Must we get into the debate of when the fertilized egg becomes human?

 

If people want to die, that's their choice. Who are you to say they can't? Is your name God?

I can't tell them that, but I sure as hell can protest society allowing anyone to kill them

[Trialbyfire]

I can't tell them that, but I sure as hell can protest society allowing anyone to kill them

And that's your right, just like it's my right to say, as per this thread, if they want to die, let them die. It's their life and their choice.

[burning 4 revenge]

And that's your right, just like it's my right to say, as per this thread, if they want to die, let them die. It's their life and their choice.

But you aren't arguing only that, you're arguing that society should aid them in that goulish choice

[Trialbyfire]

But you aren't arguing only that, you're arguing that society should aid them in that goulish choice

And you're arguing that people should be left to rot in prison, some confined to solitary. That's inhumane treatment. Look at animals in old fashioned zoos. They go insane and their cages are larger than what some felons experience. So this is okay with you? To force "human beings" to live like this for decades until they die? Now who's inhuman.