Husband doesn't 'fight' fair

[FlyingToaster]

Hello,

I've posted issues about the issues I have with my husband in the past. I'm trying a new approach at getting some feedback.

 

My husband will get upset with me about little things. For the most part, I'm okay with that, if he's civil about it. Instead, he holds it in until he explodes at me. It usually happens just when we're about to go to bed, and it then ends up keeping us up most of the night. I'm trying to get out of him what he's upset about, all the while he's fuming about it.

 

Here's a couple examples:

 

About 8 months after we were married, we were taking a shower together. All of a sudden he started staring off into space. When I asked him what was wrong, he muttered, "nothing" and then made a hasty retreat from the tub. It took me a couple hours for him to tell me that the mustache on my upper lip was getting dark (at the time I was bleaching it), and it bothered him to look at it.

 

When I was first pregnant with our son, he told me (in the middle of the night, again) that he was concerned about my weight. I'm about 40 lbs. overweight. He said that it bothered him to have me sit on a bench we had at the time because it creaked when I sat on it.

 

The other thing that's upsetting is that whenever I tell him about what he does that bothers me, he acts as if I am being too critical. Either that, or he says something like the following:

 

"I'm an idiot"

"I can't do anything right"

"I'm a lousy husband"

"I'm a lousy father"

"I can't win"

"I should just go back to work"

 

Last week we had another fight. We were staying at a hotel with our son and everything seemed to be going pretty well. We had a couch that folded out into a bed and had made plans to have some 'alone time' when our son went to sleep. He went to take a shower and while he was in there, I heard him say, "dammit!" That's an indicator to me that something's wrong. When he came out, I asked what was wrong and he was evasive. He watched and admired our sleeping son for a few minutes, then looked at me in disgust. I asked him what I did wrong, and he said he didn't want to talk about it. I went into the bathroom to check and see if I had put the toothbrush too close to the toilet (I had gotten in trouble for that in the past), but everything was in place. I decided at that point that if he wasn't going to tell me, than I wasn't going to worry about it. I turned off the lights and a couple minutes after that he started getting pissed. At that point I asked in a perturbed manner what the problem was. He said, "Could you not pick your nose so much?" At this point I was furious. Again, he could have said something earlier like, "Hey could you stop mining for nosenuggets for awhile." Instead he keeps it inside and dwells on it until he's about to explode. THAT's what pissed me off. I'm not proud of this, but I fired something nasty back. I said "F*ck you! Why don't you wash your bunghole? You wonder why I don't always want to go down on you. It's because I get down there and all I smell is a$$ and burning tires. Soap up a washcloth, and wash your bunghole!"

 

I'm not proud of that, but, like I said, I was pissed. He didn't respond and eventually moved from the bed to the pulled out couch. At one point during the night he hit something, and then later yelled something unintelligible. Early in the morning, I went over to him 'cause I knew he was cold. I brought him a blanket and we both apologized.

 

When he got up the next morning, he was, of course, stand offish. He spent the rest of the day with his nephew, who had appts. at the local children's hospital. That evening while he was taking a shower, I heard him say, "I hate her". When he got out, he didn't say much. When he got in bed, I asked, "So is it me you hate?" He then told me that he didn't realize that he was so repulsive, blah, blah, blah, and basically said things to try and make me feel guilty for saying what I did.

 

I don't want to respond the way I did in future arguments, but how can I defend myself when he does these things? I'm constantly living on edge because I don't know what he's going to be critical of next. In some ways, I think my high blood pressure is due to the stress.

 

Any advice would be appreciated.

 

Take care.

[quankanne]

burning tires?!! Oh dear ... not sure if I want an explanation for that particular tidbit :laugh::laugh:

 

sounds like your husband has some serious passive-aggressive tendencies, kvetching about non-issue things like this. Was he that way during your courtship/dating period (i.e., any red flags)? And is he under any stress at work or with family that could be manifesting itself this way? Because it seems odd that he'd be griping about these things in and of themselves.

[carhill]

OP, I gotta tell you... I'm pretty out there, but your H is whacked

[FlyingToaster]

Thanks for the replies quankanne and carhill. Yes, my H has passive-aggressive issues. He's admitted to that in the past.

 

I didn't see any red flags during our courtship. Or, maybe I should say I didn't see any obvious red flags. What I saw was a man who was very sweet to me, and who checked on his mother on a regular basis. When we got married, I moved into his house which is in his hometown. His mother lives in town. I didn't find out until after we were married how emotionally dependent she is (as well as my husband, for that matter). My husband's work schedule has him gone entirely every other week. When he's gone, he calls her AT LEAST once a day (he calls me as well). When he's home they call each other about twice a day, and when we were first married, he would go in and visit each day as well. Now, he takes the dogs into town for their walk twice a day and visits her during those times.

 

His older brother and family also live in their hometown, and they depend on my H for quite a bit as well. I know that it's my H's responsibility to ween them from him, but he's so used to be the 'go-to guy' that he bends over backwards to help them out. Quite often it leaves our son and I to do things on our own. I don't mind, but I get tired of my H complaining that he doesn't have enough time to do stuff with us.

 

The other issue we currently have is that I want to move. Our house is too small and the schools around there are not very good. Also, there's not much for me there. It's somewhat isolated and not many outlets for things I like to do (at least without travelling 30 - 45 minutes). I'd like to move back to my hometown. I want to have the support of my family, especially since my H is gone every other week. Too many times I've had to take care of things that really should have been done by two people, but because he's gone, it all falls on me. My H agrees that we need to move, but is reluctant to because the property we have is special to him. He would like to keep it in the family and has asked a nephew if he'd be willing to buy the place, but he's very slow on following up with him. There is somebody outside of the family that's interested in our place, but my H doesn't want to sell it to him because he's afraid every time he comes to visit, the new owner will tell him all that he did wrong while living there. I can't help but roll my eyes, when my H is not looking, of course.

 

Another couple of things to bring up: My H is the youngest of 4. He has a twin brother, and a sister and brother who are 14 and 12 years older respectively. I was told by the much older siblings that their father kept telling them to 'not upset the twins'. I think because they never dealt with opposition at home, they got a big surprise once they got into school. My H talks of schoolmates being jealous of them for various reasons, etc. In addition, all of the kids were told to 'not upset your mother'. I truly believe she's been emotionally challenged all her life and it just got worse over the years. My H is so used to keeping things in because of his mother so it makes it hard to talk about things with me.

 

So, any more advice? I know it's all a bit confusing. Let me know if there's something I need to clarify.

 

Take care.

[carhill]

Have you floated the MC balloon in front of H? MC taught me a lot about "fighting fair" as well as setting boundaries and rules for "debates" (I always called them that instead of arguments; my wife called them fights ).

[whichwayisup]

I said "F*ck you! Why don't you wash your bunghole? You wonder why I don't always want to go down on you. It's because I get down there and all I smell is a$$ and burning tires. Soap up a washcloth, and wash your bunghole!"

 

Yeah it was wrong to say this, but wow, that's quite funny too!

 

Your H has some serious control issues as well as being PA! The world revolved around him and when things get out of place, he freaks.

 

Do you truly love this guy? I mean he isn't going to change, this is it - Who he is. Question is, can you live with this crap day in and day out for the rest of your life? If so, is HE willing to do counselling?

[FlyingToaster]

Thanks carhill and WWIU for your replies. I'm glad WWIU that you saw how funny my response was. It wasn't something that I had ever wanted to mention, but unfortunately my anger took over.

 

Yes I have brought up counselling, and he's against it. He says that it doesn't work. His 'wonder twin' brother went to a counselor with his 1st wife, and now they're divorced. He's a hypocrit about counselling; if a counselor calls somebody on their bad behaviour, then he's commending them. However, when we see an example of a counselor who's a jerk or can't even handle issues in their own lives, he feels that they're all like that. He sees thing very black and white, and he uses whatever he can to make his point.

 

WWIU, I do love him, but it is wearing thing. As per your recommendation from one of my previous posts, I've purchased "Been there? Done that? Do this!" as well as "The Feeling Good Handbook", or something like that. I'm trying to work on not letting things bother me as much and understand that just because people say the things they do, that doesn't necessarily mean that what they say about me is true. I'm hoping that working on me first will give me a better perspective on everything else, and can decide from there what to do.

 

Take care.

[carhill]

Yeah, when I read that crack about the bunghole, I was laughing so hard I couldn't share it with my wife. She appreciates my humor for all things anal

 

Topically, I wonder sometimes if people think, at some level, when being engaged by their partner in this way, that their partner loves them because at least they're interacting. IDK what's worse, this or abandonment/emotional distance.

 

I know some couples who interact like this and have been married for decades. It appears just to be how they communicate. Everyone's different, I guess.

[Ronni_W]

I'm hoping that working on me first will give me a better perspective on everything else, and can decide from there what to do.

That does sound like the best thing that you can do.

 

Your husband swings both ways -- he is SERIOUSLY aggressive-controlling when it comes to him perceiving that you are not living up to his standards, ideals and whims...and then he becomes all small-boy passive-aggressive when he is called upon to be accountable for his own habits and behaviour.

 

Not sure if 'Boundaries: Where You End And I Begin' by Anne Katherine will offer you anything useful, or if this link on assertiveness may help with a different perspective: http://www.coping.org/relations/assert.htm

 

Best of luck -- I do hope that you'll be able to facilitate positive changes in your relationship dynamics.

[FlyingToaster]

Thanks for the recent replies.

 

Carhill, I'm glad it made you laugh. I've told this incident to my sister and good friend, and they both got a good chuckle from it as well. It really helps me to get over the anger when I hear of other people enjoying the humor.

 

Ronni_W, you and others have hit the nail on the head as far as some of the issues my husband has. This is why I love posting my problems at LS. It helps me to see my situation from different angles, and to find better words to define my problems.

 

Take care everyone.

[2sure]

You know, humor aside, I think your problem may not be uncommon. It seems like there are many relationships where one partner is passive agressive. Personally, I would kill him in his sleep. But Carhill has mentioned in different threads the "learning to fight" concept. Couples argue, couples irritate each other....all the little things culminate.

And "fighting" fair is a communication skill. Just being polite doesnt cut it. Prior to our marriage my husband asked that if/when we argued that I not ever call him names. Even said in anger and not meant, it hurts his feelings. So, of course being a reasonable person I agreed. Turns out its harder than it sounds. It is so easy to say "Look, you Jack*ass, I'm not repeating myself" .... But I don't and he appreciates it. My point being that if there is a book or some kind of guideline on fighting fair...I think it would help a lot of people. If there are just a few rules and they are followed I think during the heat of the moment, it softens things.

[carhill]

Perhaps being an only child, with no siblings to "fight" with, I have no emotional aversion to discussing and debating things. As my wife says, I got the "whole pie"

 

My rules are pretty much like we are supposed to practice here on LS....stick to the topic and no name calling. That's not to say that I've never abandoned those rules, but they are what guide me. Although I've been known to use the antithesis as a pejorative statement, I embrace the concept of emotion speaking *with* the benefit of intellect. I think emotion is an important part of each of us and also an integral part of intimacy.

 

Our MC worked with me on mitigating my condescending tone, as I tend to go into intellectual debate mode when I argue, using my intellect as a weapon. That's not fair to my wife because my words and tone aren't respecting her in the process. On her side, I don't allow "re-writing history" or bringing up past disagreements to support her position. I merely tell her, if/when she does, I'm done, and disengage. Another concept we worked on in MC is the concept of "time-outs", which are agreed-upon disengagements when one of us, generally my wife, is feeling overwhelmed. As she has a hard time engaging her emotions, they easily overwhelm her in otherwise tense situations, so, where we control the situation (like an argument), she asks for a break and I agree, even if not yet "heard". Her part is to proactively resume later when she feels up to it. The key is each of us doing our parts without "quid pro quo", IOW taking proactive steps.

 

Probably no help for the OP, but I can say it has helped us