busting my wife's affair

[pkn06002]

I've read many posts by folks that are remorseful and intend to abide buy NC.

 

You make this claim back it up to give this guy hope.

[Reggie]

Just go to the WS forum on www.survivinginfidelity.com Thought that was clear.

[jwi71]

Back to the OP.

 

Its ok to send the email. Do not expect it to have any real affect. Like I said, the OM has no respect for M so no way he respects an email. But that isn't really the point. It lets the OM know that you know, he provides evidence (if needed), and it can be a boost to you and your W in the recovery.

 

Do not be her warden for you imprison yourself as well. If she is remorseful and truly wants to end the A and return - she will be an open book. She will leave no doubt in word or deed of her intent.

 

But first, you have to decide what you want. What can you live with? Can you overcome this? Take your time. Think. If you thikn you can, go for it. But if you cannot, if you take her back for any reason other than love and forgiveness...walk.

 

You can survive this. A WS can come home. I live it everyday. And I get daily reports from my WS everyday. It can be done.

[65tr6]

Its ok to send the email. Do not expect it to have any real affect. Like I said, the OM has no respect for M so no way he respects an email. But that isn't really the point. It lets the OM know that you know, he provides evidence (if needed), and it can be a boost to you and your W in the recovery.

 

I know it wont have any real effect. But every LITTLE thing matters to me at this point in this fight. It cannot hurt and that is the way i see it.

 

Do not be her warden for you imprison yourself as well. If she is remorseful and truly wants to end the A and return - she will be an open book. She will leave no doubt in word or deed of her intent.

Truly wants to end the A ?. As of today ? I doubt that. But i know she understands how much the A has hurt me..our family...remorseful, yes i would say so. Recommittment ?..Not quite and that's where she is confused but is willing. That's all i can ask at this point.

But first, you have to decide what you want. What can you live with? Can you overcome this? Take your time. Think. If you thikn you can, go for it. But if you cannot, if you take her back for any reason other than love and forgiveness...walk.

As of now, i want us family together but there WILL be changes. Changes for the better. It is a long long way to get there though.

[taylor]

The affair won't end until your wife ends it.

 

Telling the OM you know may serve only as a warning to him and may just force him (and your wife) to take the affair further underground.

 

He may back off if he's not that into your wife or if he's a real coward BUT if he is determined to see your wife, he will, until SHE stops it.

 

It can't hurt to send an e-mail to him. It may scare him a little or he may laugh it off. You don't know him.

 

But if I were you I would put pressure on your wife, not the OM. You need to make it loud and clear to her that if she doesn't end the affair and go NC forever, she is out the door.

 

Given that choice, she will take action.

 

And again, it will be far more effective if SHE sends an e-mail to the OM telling him she confessed the affair, the affair is over, that she wants NC, and that she has decided to work on her marriage in MC.

 

If the OM's desire to see your wife is greater than his fear of you, knowing that you know about the affair will do little to stop it. And if your wife's desire to see the OM is greater than any consequences she thinks she might pay, the affair will continue.

[pkn06002]

And again, it will be far more effective if SHE sends an e-mail to the OM telling him she confessed the affair, the affair is over, that she wants NC, and that she has decided to work on her marriage in MC.

 

This is true if it is in words that she would use. Most BS would not "approve" of the type of letter that would be sent in that case. Because it would not be cut and dry and sterile like the BS would like.

 

Talyor is also right until she wants to end it she will not. My xMW was the one that wanted to keep on talking after her husband found out and AFTER a BS "approved" NC letter was sent to me.

[jwi71]

I know it wont have any real effect. But every LITTLE thing matters to me at this point in this fight. It cannot hurt and that is the way i see it.

 

Yup. I know the feeling well. So write the email with your wife. Better yet, let her write and you be the editor. At least get her thinking about ending it.

 

Truly wants to end the A ?. As of today ? I doubt that. But i know she understands how much the A has hurt me..our family...remorseful, yes i would say so. Recommittment ?..Not quite and that's where she is confused but is willing. That's all i can ask at this point.

 

This is precisely why you want this A out in the open. Its easy to cheat with no one watching (they don't know to watch). However, you tell the world and the secrecy needed becomes all the more difficult to find. If her friends and family know, if his friends and family know...

 

As of now, i want us family together but there WILL be changes. Changes for the better. It is a long long way to get there though.

 

She must recognize and want the changes too. Within herself. Its a process - there will be backwards steps between you two. But the OM should never figure in to it. Time to be completely honest with each other and that means when she is weak for the OM, she confides in YOU. Believe me, that is hard on both parties especially you.

 

It can be done! If you both truly want the M to work, you will make it.

[65tr6]

And if your wife's desire to see the OM is greater than any consequences she thinks she might pay, the affair will continue.

this scenario is very unlikely to happen for reasons better known to me. If it does happen, then consequences are way too much for anyone to bear. I dont want to see d-day 2. It is not going to be pretty.

[troubadour]

this scenario is very unlikely to happen for reasons better known to me. If it does happen, then consequences are way too much for anyone to bear. I dont want to see d-day 2. It is not going to be pretty.

 

 

65tr6, don't do anything stupid even if d-day 2 happens. I hope things will work for you. But even if they don't... you still have your life to live.

[65tr6]

65tr6, But even if they don't... you still have your life to live.

sorry i didnt mean it come out that way. What i meant was it is very unlikely that it will happen, if it does, then my reaction will be very different...still sane....but a different approach. May be the last several weeks made me tougher in that sense which could be a good thing right ?

[taylor]

65tr6,

 

I came to LS just days after D-day mainly for emotional support regarding the affair, rather than for guidance on marital recovery.

 

That speaks volumes as to where a WS's head is post D-day.

 

It took me a good six months to get through withdrawal. Meaning 6 months to get my emotions under control regarding the OM and the affair. I came out of the affair fog, I started to think clearer, and I no longer had strong urges or temptations to contact the OM.

 

I underwent an agonizing process to figure out what lead up to the affair and why I chose to get emotionally involved with the OM. I had to sift thru a mountain of confusing and conflicted feelings and emotions, sorting out what was real and what wasnt; the whys and the why nots; the ifs and the buts.

 

I had to look at myself in the mirror and figure out who that person was and what she had done. It was painful. It took time.

 

I have a clear understanding now of the affair dynamic, why I chose that path, and what lead me there.

 

I know that my decision to enter an affair had more to do with internal issues and problems inside of me than it did with anything that had to do with my husband and my marriage.

 

Following D-day my husband jumped into recovery mode...trying to change himself, clinging to me, being more loving and affectionate and attentive than ever. I, on the other hand, was going through the pain of withdrawal. I could hardly get out of bed, let alone focus on recovering a marriage.

 

We have been in MC and I have been in IC since April. The good and the bad since then:

 

Good:

 

1. Communication, particularly the need to stay in touch with each other's feelings, good or bad, has improved.

 

2. More quality time together. We spend more time talking one-on-one. We are joining each other in activities we used to do separately. We are going up to bed together now. Less time in front of the TV and computer.

 

3. We are kinder to each other.

 

4. Every day we at least tell each other, if not show each other, we are committed to each other. We recommitted to each other early on after D-day even though our hearts were both full of pain and confusion. We made this conscious decision to try to love each other using our heads because at the time we just weren't feeling very loving towards each other. The desire to recommit from our hearts is coming back ever so slowly. There is a glimmer.

 

The bad:

 

1. There are still periods of emotional distance, disconnection. When we start to feel this, we reel the other one back in. This is hard work. Frustrating at times. But we both have a strong desire to have this emotional connection. I would not have said this 1.5 years ago. I had already checked out of the marriage emotionally and didn't care if we ever re-connected.

 

2. Physical intimacy is a struggle. Sexual desire is weak on my end. Mainly because of the "high" from the intense sexual tension generated with the affair partner. Our MC says I need to lower my expectations..that marital sex will never be as exciting as the anticipation of affair sex. I am still dealing with this. Sex is good...loving, affection, tender, nice...but not hot.

 

3. I am dealing with self-loathing feelings the more reality sets in. Angry at letting myself get so weak and vulnerable. Embarrassed at my behavior. Guilty for bringing this pain and suffering to my husband. Angry for damaging my marriage to this extent.

But perhaps the primary reason for the self-loathing is that I still have not been able to put 100 percent of myself back in the marriage. I am damaged goods. My husband deserves someone who can give him 100 percent and right now I can't emotionally or physically. I don't deserve his love. I don't feel loveable.

 

I know you expressed frustration regarding this same issue.

 

I don't know what you can do about it. We are struggling with it as well.

 

I think it may have something to do with an inability to forgive myself for what I have done and for who I let myself become. Perhaps your wife may see it like this as well. I don't know.

 

My husband says he has forgiven me. But I know I have not forgiven myself. And I don't think I will until I can redeem myself by being able to give him 100 percent of myself again.

 

So that's about it. This is where we stand 10 months after D-day. Some days I feel we haven't moved forward at all. And then I think of D-day and know we have progressed. We are still moving and that is what gives us hope.

[65tr6]

65tr6,

 

I have a clear understanding now of the affair dynamic, why I chose that path, and what lead me there.

 

I know that my decision to enter an affair had more to do with internal issues and problems inside of me than it did with anything that had to do with my husband and my marriage.

 

.

 

taylor, i am so thankful and touched by your response and update, I feel like you have given me the glimpse into what the future looks like for me. Priceless information.

 

Yes i kinda expected this. It definitely brings me down...but still very grateful to you for sharing this.

 

My wife is realising the same thing...that affair had more to do with her issues than anything else..low self esteem etc. I have no doubt I had a role to play in pushing her to the brink. But we both agree that the affair was her decision and a bad one.

 

 

Following D-day my husband jumped into recovery mode...trying to change himself, clinging to me, being more loving and affectionate and attentive than ever. I, on the other hand, was going through the pain of withdrawal. I could hardly get out of bed, let alone focus on recovering a marriage.

.

 

taylor, this is SO MUCH me you are describing. lol. Actually brings me a smile to my face. See my other thread on "How not to be clingy with my wife", if you could please. Let me tell you i have made tremendous progress. And it is getting better.

 

My wife is in IC but i am not. I did bring up MC last month and now i dont know if i want it...

 

4. Every day we at least tell each other, if not show each other, we are committed to each other. We recommitted to each other early on after D-day even though our hearts were both full of pain and confusion. We made this conscious decision to try to love each other using our heads because at the time we just weren't feeling very loving towards each other. The desire to recommit from our hearts is coming back ever so slowly. There is a glimmer.

 

.

 

Here is the difference..Slightly anyway. My wife wanted divorce on the d-day but later she admitted that she didnt know what to say and those were the words that came out of her mouth. Also she said that ONLY after i asked her - She was completely withdrawn for weeks prior to that and that absolutely drove me nuts.

 

She does not communicate very well and she knows it.

 

At this point, we have not recommitted. Let me rephrase. I think we are recommitted but not used those words on daily basis. Should we be doing that instead ?

 

I want to saw we are in recovery but no actual words of affirmation from either one to that effect. Recovery/Recommittment, all same thing ?

 

 

The bad:

 

1. There are still periods of emotional distance, disconnection. When we start to feel this, we reel the other one back in. This is hard work. Frustrating at times. But we both have a strong desire to have this emotional connection. I would not have said this 1.5 years ago. I had already checked out of the marriage emotionally and didn't care if we ever re-connected.

 

2. Physical intimacy is a struggle. Sexual desire is weak on my end. Mainly because of the "high" from the intense sexual tension generated with the affair partner. Our MC says I need to lower my expectations..that marital sex will never be as exciting as the anticipation of affair sex. I am still dealing with this. Sex is good...loving, affection, tender, nice...but not hot.

 

.

ditto on both. Even though i am speaking for my wife too.

 

 

 

3. I am dealing with self-loathing feelings the more reality sets in. Angry at letting myself get so weak and vulnerable. Embarrassed at my behavior. Guilty for bringing this pain and suffering to my husband. Angry for damaging my marriage to this extent.

But perhaps the primary reason for the self-loathing is that I still have not been able to put 100 percent of myself back in the marriage. I am damaged goods. My husband deserves someone who can give him 100 percent and right now I can't emotionally or physically. I don't deserve his love. I don't feel loveable.

 

I know you expressed frustration regarding this same issue. .

 

Yes that is what i am struggling with. Knowing that I have no control whatsoever on what she feels and why she feels that way. And that I cannot change it.

 

Have you asked your Counsellor about what you can do to forgive yourself ?

 

This is crazy...and just so difficult for me. I felt guilty about the affair but not to extent that I didnt do anything positive about it. If I can forgive myself and take steps to work on myself that resulted in bad marriage, why not her about the affair ? Is the because the affair is difficult to forgive/forget ?

 

Is it more guilt factor versus remorse that could be making you do this ? What will make you happy ? Do you even know ? (I am sorry if it is coming out as condescending - that is not the intention)

 

Have you seen the thread on Remorse versus Guilt ? A great one.

 

Or May be this is more an issue with WWs when, like you say, are checked out of the marriage long before and it is almost impossible to turn back.

 

 

 

Some days I feel we haven't moved forward at all. And then I think of D-day and know we have progressed. We are still moving and that is what gives us hope.

 

Let me ask you this. Do you feel that your marriage is better now ? - with your husband's changed behavior, and that both are recommiited and you are communicating more now - compared to the period prior to the affair ? If so, aren't you glad and hopeful that things can actually improve ?

 

You can decide to ignore this question if you want to. What if the OM contacted you today or you both ran into each other somehow ?

 

Anything that you have for me or my wife that could make our lives little better as we look forward to the next 6 months ?

 

Thanks again.

[65tr6]

Focus on YOU. It will be a long road, regardless of what path you choose to take. And be there for you little son. Believe it or not, he will probably help you get through this more than anyone else. You will find strength and hope in his eyes.

I feel like venting more today. I dont know why.

 

But your point about taking strength from our son is true for both of us. In fact my wife says she forgets everything when she is with him. And I feel the same way. Sometimes, I worry if he knows something is wrong - We have been very careful in shielding him completely from this so far but at some point we have to tell him. We know what to tell him but just dont know when.

[jwi71]

Hey 65tr6...how have you been?

 

Been awhile and I would for one would appreciate an update on how you two are doing...

[65tr6]

But first, you have to decide what you want. What can you live with? Can you overcome this? Take your time. Think. If you thikn you can, go for it. But if you cannot, if you take her back for any reason other than love and forgiveness...walk.

 

You can survive this. A WS can come home. I live it everyday. And I get daily reports from my WS everyday. It can be done.

 

jw, i decided to wait and answer this. I was in a complete shock and grieving when i posted this thread.

 

Yes i want us back and i think i/we can overcome this. In my mind and heart, I have forgiven her. I have just started to realise this. I will tell her that soon. And yes i am doing this for love. My son is important but that is not the prime reason nor is my family.

[65tr6]

Hey 65tr6...how have you been?

 

Been awhile and I would for one would appreciate an update on how you two are doing...

 

Jw, thanks for asking. I/We have come a long way.....or may be not....

 

Try to keep it short

 

Positives

 

1) I still feel like a sponge. Reading, learning, posting, venting. (This is a great website by the way)

2) Alteast two new hobbies. Lot of goals. Short term/long term. I know what i want to learn one year from now

3) Less clingy, havent cried in a week

4) Much more CALM. This actually surprised me. I dont react the way i used to anymore

5) Wife still in total NC - from d-day. I am greatful for that. I have decided to back away from contacting OM's family. Not necessary at this point.

6) Love Busters all gone for both. We actually agree to disagree as opposed to putting down or calling names. I cant believe i did that !

7) Her IC is proving useful for her

8) She is very remorseful

9) We do things together, communicate daily, watch movies and yes share the same bed

10) STD results came back negative....phew !

11) I feel so much more strong, less desparate. Gaining my self-respect back.

 

Negatives

 

1) Wife still not comfortable sharing her thoughts/feelings. She thinks they are so negative that it will bring me down

2) Wife's demeanor changing but not quite as much as i expected

3) Wife going through lot of guilt - to be point she is tired or withdrawn at times.

4) She thinks i deserve better. (I am pretty sure she feels ashamed, disgusted, weak and what not...hasnt quite said that but did give indications)

 

More positives than negatives. And funny thing is, if i leave affair part out, things are actually better than they were months before the affair. For one thing there is no deceit and dishonesty.

[tomswife]

I can feel your hurt, frustration and anger and I wish you can smash the crazy old dude in the face, throw him in jail and and serve you wandering wife divorce paper and take your son with you.

[taylor]

At this point, we have not recommitted. Let me rephrase. I think we are recommitted but not used those words on daily basis. Should we be doing that instead ?

 

I want to say we are in recovery but no actual words of affirmation from either one to that effect. Recovery/Recommittment, all same thing ?

 

Recovery and Recommittment certainly are not the same thing.

 

Recommittment is a decision. It is a decision to love each other. Love is an action, not a feelings. You choose to love each other, one act at a time.

 

Recovery is a process that takes place if you choose to recommit..to truly love each other. If you can't recommit to love each other, there is no recovery.

 

We learned in Retrouvaille that you can still choose to love your spouse even if you don't FEEL very loving towards that person at any given time.

 

THis has been a difficult concept for me to wrap my head around because it is difficult for me to SHOW love if I don't FEEL it in my heart.

 

In both MC and at Retrouvaille we were told that if you continue to SHOW love through your actions (just like you did when you were dating), those loving feelings will return to the heart as long as the heart remains open to receive it.

 

The point is you and your wife, just like my H and I, have to go back to day 1, start all over again, touch each others' hearts like we did in the beginning.

 

The question is whether the heart is open to receive it.And this is where I find the rub to be...keeping the heart open to receive it.

 

65tr6, I think you and your wife could benefit from MC. Going to MC does not mean you have taken steps to recommit. If you are not ready for that or unsure if you want to do that, it's OK. But MC can help you and your wife sort out your feelings...help you to clearly define what your goals are in your marriage...what's realistic and attainable and what's not.

 

It sounds to me like you want to recommit but are not so sure your wife does. She needs to reflect on some very basic questions:

 

1. Do you want me in your life as your marriage partner

2. Are you willing to work with me on our marriage

 

Recommitment is a decision you make to work on the marriage because you value it and don't want to lose it.

 

Even if you recommit, there are no guarantees that you will recover. Everyone wants that happy ending. You don't know what the future will hold, but if you recommit, you give yourself a chance to recover. Again, without recommittment, there is no chance of recovery.

 

Will write more when I have some more time.

 

Hopefully some others will chime in here...posters who are farther along in recovery than my husband and I are and who can give you greater insight.

[65tr6]

It sounds to me like you want to recommit but are not so sure your wife does. She needs to reflect on some very basic questions:

 

1. Do you want me in your life as your marriage partner

2. Are you willing to work with me on our marriage

 

Recommitment is a decision you make to work on the marriage because you value it and don't want to lose it.

 

 

taylor. thanks. Yes i want to recommit. She wants to except she feels strongly she is not ready to be in a relationship. Does that make sense ? It does not for me because we both love our son and I am stunned she is able to separate those two out. I, for life of me, always thought about my wife and son first.

 

BUT she is willing to give it a try. Start dating me and be open about our relationship. So there is no recommittment per se from her side but willing to give the relationship (between us two) a try. I think i am fine with it and not worry about pushing her to recommitt. She is also open to the possibility that feelings may change. Who knows few months from you, she really wants to work on our marriage - meaning recommitt. Does that make sense again ?

 

Sorry, I am just a bit confused last couple of days. Just when i think I got it, I realise not quite. It is very frustrating to be a WS and begging for love. This is just not me. I always believed in giving. And one time I ask for something I am being shown the door. I start to wonder if I should be doing things that make me get away from her. And loose some of the feelings I have for her. So that way, if things dont work out then I am already I am on my out but then who knows I might still be on the way out even if they do. This is so hard.

[65tr6]

 

It sounds to me like you want to recommit but are not so sure your wife does. She needs to reflect on some very basic questions:

 

1. Do you want me in your life as your marriage partner

2. Are you willing to work with me on our marriage

 

I will ask her these questions but here is my guess as to what her response could be...

 

1. No

2. Yes

 

also see my response in the post above. So where does that leave us ?

 

Remember she emotionally checked herself out of the marriage couple of years ago and the followed it up with the affair. So I am not surprised if she says NO to the first question.

[Athena]

It is very frustrating to be a BS and begging for love. This is just not me. I always believed in giving. And one time I ask for something I am being shown the door. I start to wonder if I should be doing things that make me get away from her. And loose some of the feelings I have for her. So that way, if things do not work out then I am already I am on my out but then who knows I might still be on the way out even if they do. This is so hard.

 

I hear your words (see underlined above) -- as for me, to set myself free from some of the pain I have begun to detach from H as of January this year, for my own sake!

It would have been unbearable if we split up with all my love and hope -- for him & us -- still strong and intact. So, I have been 'choosing' to not love H as much, just as Taylor pointed out previously "Love is a decision you make to love each other and Love is an action not feelings" so, I have decided not to love H, and over time that has lessened.

 

Its sad, but its necessary. Because I have been through so much pain in loving this man, it has become necessary to protect myself by not loving him as much. If I don't love him as much, then I don't care as much and then he has not got the power to hurt me emotionally any more.

I also read a book several months ago, called "How to fall out of love" (by Dr. Deborah Phillips) -- that's how desperate I was to stop the hurting! The book aims at Indifference. It also assures you that if you choose to fall back in love with the person, you can... and it will feel like you are falling in love all over again. It was written for people whose love for someone brings them pain -- the pain that is caused by Obsessive Thinking about someone who cannot or does not love you.

 

You know your W chose to not love you as much, right? And even now it appears that she is self-protecting by putting herself first as usual, even though you -- as you mentioned in your post -- have always naturally put your son and wife first before yourself.

[65tr6]

You know your W chose to not love you as much, right? .

 

yes i do now and she did this well before the affair and never told me that. It hurts me.

 

 

And even now it appears that she is self-protecting by putting herself first as usual, even though you -- as you mentioned in your post -- have always naturally put your son and wife first before yourself.

 

right on the money again athena. Is that wrong ? - putting my son and my wife first ? I asked her the same question. Was that stupid of me to do that way ?

[Athena]

right on the money again athena. Is that wrong ? - putting my son and my wife first ? I asked her the same question. Was that stupid of me to do that way ?

 

No 65 it was not stupid of you to do that, I personally think its normal and should be that way.

 

However, if your wife doesn't do that, but only you do that then you are going to get hurt. Everytime.

Your wife puts her own a$$ first and you don't -- different styles. Are you prepared to be hurt some more? Because I highly doubt she is now going to suddenly want to put you & son first.

[Saville]

I don't have any words to add that have not already been written, but I did want to say how much I admire how you are handling all this. You are not seeking retribution, which is usually ruinous anyway, but are instead extending yourself to understand the dynamics that lead to all this in the first place. No matter what, you will find yourself in a much better state, as you are laying the foundation for a strong you. Bravo!

 

Saville

[atwitsend]

This question is for taylor and 65. Do you think that the rapidity with which your husband (Taylor) started working towards R is why your desire has not returned for your husband to the extent you would like. I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that you were not concerned with losing him. So due to the fact that there was no risk of loss regarding your husband. You continue to look at him as "been there done that". While You're fear of loss never really blossomed. In other words could he have forgiven you to soon? I'm not talking about Guilt sex. I am talking about HAVE I LOST YOU "SEX". Please elaborate for 65 so that a life of been there done that sex can be avoided. I can't help but feeling that if you though his love was at risk. You would have developed "hysterical bonding sex". I must admit that looking at my wife and thinking that I will never be able to reach that place with her that he did would be a fate worse then divorce. Creating an underlying cancer in the reconciliation.