busting my wife's affair

[Darth Vader]

I really tried my best to ignore your post but i couldnt. The way i see this she was so sick that she needs help. What is the difference whether she screws in my home or elsewhere ?...i know it just hurts big freakin' time knowing that she did in my home.....How is this any different from an EA ? Just because sex is involved ? Woman, by now you should know, dont f*** differentiate between EA and PA that much. To them EA is a big deal...not for us men. PA is a big deal. Get it ? Yes she put me at risk for STD and what not for doing what she did. She is now remorseful. So what do you want me to do ? Kick her out and divorce her ? She is in complete NC now. We both think we are making decent progress. You think we should stop ?

 

About paternity test...there is no need. Our son is truely our son. All the f** infidelity started last year. (sorry i think i am losing it here with all the f*).

 

 

She's not sick, well she is as far as doing what she did, but not sick in reguards to not be responsible for her actions, she could control herself, and she did. When she screwed in your own home, in your own bed, she dumped on you, your marriage, and the vows that you took, PERIOD! That woman doesn't love you! I think you know that. Sounds like she just wanted a little strange. MAN! Does everone have blinders on today?

[Darth Vader]

It's obvious you've hit the anger stage, that much I'm sureof.

[lkjh]

I have to agree with Darth, she is in control of her actions. Yes the physical part is BIG because she gave something away that she can never get back. Also once it goes physical she will always hold onto that.

[Dexter Morgan]

Or just man up and meet the guy in a parking lot and fight for her hand like real men do.

 

A real man wouldn't fight for a cheating woman. The OM can have the skank.

[In Like Flynn]

Do they still work for the same company?? Sounds like this guy just zipped up his pants and moved on to the next coworker without and flack!!! He should feel at least some of the pain!!

[Mio]

I really tried my best to ignore your post but i couldnt.

 

65tr6, it would be better just to ignore haters like Darth and Dexter. They'll just poison your soul. You were doing a lot better without them.

[whichwayisup]

A real man wouldn't fight for a cheating woman. The OM can have the skank.

Well if no kids are in the picture then maybe you have a point..But when kids ARE involved, they have to be considered.

 

It takes a special person, man or woman, for a betrayed spouse to give their cheating spouse a chance to make things right. To win back their respect, trust and faith again.

 

It sounds like his wife IS working on things and because of this, she deserves this chance he's giving her. Not only for himself, but for the kids sake and keeping the family together. If both work hard and want it to work, then anything is possible. Do a site search on a LS member named Thumbingmyway. His situation and how he handled his wife's infidelity is inspirtational for some.

[Dexter Morgan]

Well if no kids are in the picture then maybe you have a point..But when kids ARE involved, they have to be considered.

 

I don't disagree. But seeing as how the cheater didn't give the kids any consideration, the all bets are off.

 

 

It sounds like his wife IS working on things and because of this, she deserves this chance he's giving her.

 

Cheaters don't deserve a 2nd chance. They need to earn it. They don't just automatically "deserve" it.

 

 

Not only for himself, but for the kids sake and keeping the family together.

 

Again, I don't disagree. But the cheater didn't think of her family and kids so she could get her gratification away from her husband.

 

If they are to work it out, fine. As long as they both want it and he isn't blindly staying for the wrong reasons.

 

But since the cheater didn't give a thought to her kids and husband to get her rocks off, then she is the one with the burden of the most responsibility in making it "work". Some major ass kissing needs to happen along with some adhered to ground rules.

[Dexter Morgan]

65tr6, it would be better just to ignore haters like Darth and Dexter. They'll just poison your soul. You were doing a lot better without them.

 

I think you need to read better. Show me where I directed any hate towards 65. I sympathize with him completely.

[65tr6]

It takes a special person, man or woman, for a betrayed spouse to give their cheating spouse a chance to make things right. To win back their respect, trust and faith again.

 

It sounds like his wife IS working on things and because of this, she deserves this chance he's giving her. Not only for himself, but for the kids sake and keeping the family together. If both work hard and want it to work, then anything is possible. Do a site search on a LS member named Thumbingmyway. His situation and how he handled his wife's infidelity is inspirtational for some.

will look for those posts and thanks a lot. I truly appreciate your comments. Coming from a senior member like you means a LOT to me. It was very difficult for me to ignore Darth... I wish i had done that. I am just amazed how folks suggest the easy way out when it comes to infidelity. I am way too smart and too strong to throw in the towel. I WILL gain a lot from this horendous event.

[65tr6]

I think you need to read better. Show me where I directed any hate towards 65. I sympathize with him completely.

With all due respect, I am not looking for sympathy. I did on the d-day, lol, when i felt absolutely alone. I want to learn from others here especially WWs. I want my wife to realise what a bad choice she made and do something positive about it. And a bad choice does not make her a bad person. I know she can do it if she tries very hard.

[65tr6]

Do they still work for the same company?? Sounds like this guy just zipped up his pants and moved on to the next coworker without and flack!!! He should feel at least some of the pain!!

nope. He moved on to some other job. Amazing thing is he has several kids. What kind of example is he leading ? No, wait, I should not be wasting my time even talking about this loser.

[65tr6]

A real man wouldn't fight for a cheating woman. The OM can have the skank.

so help me out here Dexter, so a woman cheats, just divorce her ? As simple as that ? What about men cheating on woman ?

 

Also define cheating for me....one day emotional affair ? or three days or 3 years EA + PA ? In what cases do you dump her and what cases you dont ? Any other considerations such as how long you have been married or if you had any kids ? I am not being sarcastic, all I am saying is it is not that simple - for some of us -

[Dexter Morgan]

so help me out here Dexter, so a woman cheats, just divorce her ? As simple as that ?

 

For me it is. I realize that once a woman cheats, I'll never look at her the same way again. No man will. And if they think she is the same woman, they are fooling themselves.

 

But again, thats me, everyone is different and needs to do their own thing.

 

 

What about men cheating on woman ?

 

Same thing, but I can't speak for women. I advise them the same way.

Not everyone takes this view, but in mine its once a cheater always a cheater. Popular with some, not so much with others.

 

If someone decides to stay with a cheater, well, then good luck with that.

But I know there is a better life to be had than to settle for someone that has cheated.

 

 

Also define cheating for me....one day emotional affair ?

 

one day emotional affair?? I think for it to be an emotional affair it would have to last a little more than one day.

 

But here is my take on it. If someone develops romantic feelings for someone, and acts on them in any way whatsoever, emotional, physical, then its cheating to me.

 

 

In what cases do you dump her and what cases you dont ?

 

That varies on person to person. More than likely some "one day" emotional affair will never come to light, if such a thing even exists.

 

But an emotional affair where the 2 people involved let it be known and carried on some sort of contact, then I wouldn't put up with it no matter how long or short it was. I will always wonder about my significant other from that point on. And if I have to wonder about a SO, or keep tabs on them, then its just not worth my time.

 

 

Any other considerations such as how long you have been married or if you had any kids ?

 

Oh believe me, when d-day came for me, I tried to forget about it and didn't want to destroy my kids home, until I came to the realization that I didn't do that to them, she did.

 

 

I am not being sarcastic, all I am saying is it is not that simple - for some of us -

 

I agree. People will take from these forums what they want.

 

But if you decide to stay with a cheater, don't say I didn't warn you.

[Mio]

For me it is. I realize that once a woman cheats, I'll never look at her the same way again. No man will. And if they think she is the same woman, they are fooling themselves.

 

That's why I called you a 'hater' - you advise every BS to dump their partner. Love doesn't do that. Love accepts human frailty and talks it out, tries again.

 

I'm sad it happened to you (i.e. betrayal), but I'm sadder yet that you project your own situation onto others. The saddest thing of all is that your hate has no boundaries. You even give this advice to people in long-term marriages with children.

[Dexter Morgan]

That's why I called you a 'hater' - you advise every BS to dump their partner.

 

I sure do advise that. But what has wanting to dump a cheater have to do with hating. What is so hateful about not wanting to be tied to someone that betrayed you?

 

 

Love doesn't do that. Love accepts human frailty and talks it out, tries again.

 

Love should have kept them from cheating. Just as in the movie Boomerang, "what do you know about love? Love should have brought your ass home last night"

 

 

I'm sad it happened to you (i.e. betrayal), but I'm sadder yet that you project your own situation onto others.

 

Got a newsflash for ya. Thats what people do here. They take their experiences and advise accordingly. As I told him before. People will take from this forum what they want and most will take from it what they want to hear. Some take the same view as me, some don't. Its that simple.

 

 

The saddest thing of all is that your hate has no boundaries. You even give this advice to people in long-term marriages with children.

 

And? People are suppose to hold themselves hostage with a cheater because they have a family? Gee, I didn't know that once you have kids with someone, you have to put up with their cheating because of it:confused:

 

And again, if kids are involved, then the cheater sure as heck didn't think 2 squirts of piss about their children when the cheated on the other parent.

[Mio]

I sure do advise that. But what has wanting to dump a cheater have to do with hating. What is so hateful about not wanting to be tied to someone that betrayed you?

 

Because the advice is based on the idea that a "cheater" (to use your dismissive term) is worthless. I know infidelity hurts like hell. I'm not trying to minimise it. But if you really love someone, you can come back from infidelity and have an even stronger marriage.

 

 

Love should have kept them from cheating. Just as in the movie Boomerang, "what do you know about love? Love should have brought your ass home last night"

That's cute. But it's also wrong. Love by itself isn't enough to power a marriage. Marriages are like a business partnership in a way - you have to do a lot of hard, mundane work to reap the rewards. You don't just get together, say "I love you" a few times and live happily ever after.

 

I've talked to lots of people about their marriages. It's hard keeping the spark going after some years. It even becomes something of a war-zone. It's inevitable that one of the parties will be tempted. I gather you've never been in this situation? It would explain a lot

 

 

Got a newsflash for ya. Thats what people do here. They take their experiences and advise accordingly. As I told him before. People will take from this forum what they want and most will take from it what they want to hear. Some take the same view as me, some don't. Its that simple.

I'm glad you acknowledge that people project. Everyone does it. But if your solution becomes the solution for everyone, what's the point? Everything looks like a nail to you, so you keep bringing out your hammer. Would it kill you to get some more tools?

 

 

And? People are suppose to hold themselves hostage with a cheater because they have a family? Gee, I didn't know that once you have kids with someone, you have to put up with their cheating because of it:confused:

 

And again, if kids are involved, then the cheater sure as heck didn't think 2 squirts of piss about their children when the cheated on the other parent.

Again, I really don't think you've seen how damaging it is to children when parents split up. Or if you have, you haven't really felt it inside you.

 

You give yourself away with your hateful terminology - hostage, cheater. Our spouses are people, damn it. Flawed people, just like us. When you build a marriage, and a family, it's a lot to throw away. This isn't like a new girlfriend or something. People have their whole lives invested in the marriage.

 

Look, you can live your life this way if you choose. I'm telling you though, you're selling yourself very short. If you can't accept human frailty, and the inevitability of change, you will be doomed to a life of shallow relationships. Your choice of course, but I don't enjoy watching you prescribe it for everyone else.

[Reggie]

I agree that the one size fits all advise may not be good. Each BS has to do a lot of thinking and analyzing, a cost benefit analysis, before deciding how to proceed. There are just so many factors to consider: one's persoal tolerance and ability to get past this, the state of the marriage pre-A, the likeliehood of recidivism, the effect on kids and assets.

Clearly there are folks that cheat once and never do so again. Some are motivated by true remorse and empathy. These folks take responsibility for their brokeness ,for lack of a better term, and try to fix themselves, the marriage and help their BS heal. Others restrain themselves for fear of consequences only and don't change inside.

For mr, I think the critical factors are how was my spouse pre-A and whether my WS accepts responsibility and does what it takes to try to fix things.

[Dexter Morgan]

That's cute. But it's also wrong. Love by itself isn't enough to power a marriage. Marriages are like a business partnership in a way - you have to do a lot of hard, mundane work to reap the rewards. You don't just get together, say "I love you" a few times and live happily ever after.

 

So if I understand you correctly, love shouldn't be enough to keep someone from cheating, but it should be enough to keep someone from leaving a person that simply didn't "love" them enough?

 

I'm sorry, I fail to see the logic that love should keep the betrayed a prisoner to someone that didn't love them enough to keep from screwing someone else.

 

 

I've talked to lots of people about their marriages. It's hard keeping the spark going after some years. It even becomes something of a war-zone. It's inevitable that one of the parties will be tempted. I gather you've never been in this situation? It would explain a lot

 

If you gather that I have never had the opportunity to cheat, you are wrong. If you gather that I have never cheated, you are correct.

 

 

 

I'm glad you acknowledge that people project. Everyone does it. But if your solution becomes the solution for everyone, what's the point? Everything looks like a nail to you, so you keep bringing out your hammer. Would it kill you to get some more tools?

 

 

You don't drive a nail with a screwdriver.

 

 

Again, I really don't think you've seen how damaging it is to children when parents split up.

 

yes, i have, my own children. but guess what, I didn't do it to them, the cheating xW did.

 

 

Or if you have, you haven't really felt it inside you.

 

I feel it all the time. but no way am I going to settle for life with a cheater and be a miserable as hell father for them. I'm sure when they grow up, they wouldn't have wanted me to stay with her either.

 

 

You give yourself away with your hateful terminology - hostage, cheater.

 

Nothing hateful about it. A cheater is a proper term for those that have, well....cheated:confused:

 

and hostage, of course. If I would have stayed with a woman that I could no longer trust, no longer saw her as anything but a cheater, all for the kids sake, what would you call it?

 

 

Our spouses are people, damn it. Flawed people, just like us. When you build a marriage, and a family, it's a lot to throw away.

 

And the cheater decided to chance throwing it all away the day they cheated.

 

 

This isn't like a new girlfriend or something. People have their whole lives invested in the marriage.

 

Yup, and a cheater pissed that all away. Hey, if someone wants to stay with a cheater, good luck to them.

 

 

Look, you can live your life this way if you choose. I'm telling you though, you're selling yourself very short.

 

No, I'm not. The fact that, if the knowledge is available to me, that someone has cheated, then it is someone I want no part of.

 

 

If you can't accept human frailty, and the inevitability of change

 

It isn't inevitable that a cheater changes and in my opinion, its a rarity.

 

So not saying it doesn't happen, but I think its very rare.

 

 

you will be doomed to a life of shallow relationships.

 

I don't think so. The shallow relationships are the ones that I would stay with in the face of someone doing something so despicable.

 

Please tell me, why the hell, love or not, should I stay with someone I could no longer trust?

[Dexter Morgan]

I agree that the one size fits all advise may not be good. Each BS has to do a lot of thinking and analyzing, a cost benefit analysis, before deciding how to proceed. There are just so many factors to consider: one's persoal tolerance and ability to get past this, the state of the marriage pre-A, the likeliehood of recidivism, the effect on kids and assets.

Clearly there are folks that cheat once and never do so again. Some are motivated by true remorse and empathy. These folks take responsibility for their brokeness ,for lack of a better term, and try to fix themselves, the marriage and help their BS heal. Others restrain themselves for fear of consequences only and don't change inside.

For mr, I think the critical factors are how was my spouse pre-A and whether my WS accepts responsibility and does what it takes to try to fix things.

 

You know, I understand all that. I really do.

 

But for me, remorse or not, one simple fact remains. When cheated upon, I'll never see the person I grew to like/love in the same light again. I'd always look at them and wonder. Thats no life for me. I'd much rather move on and give someone that, to my knowledge, isn't a cheater the benefit of the doubt. And if they turn out to cheat, then I move on.

 

Simple as that.

[Mio]

So if I understand you correctly, love shouldn't be enough to keep someone from cheating, but it should be enough to keep someone from leaving a person that simply didn't "love" them enough?

 

Mindblowing, isn't it

 

I know it doesn't make a lot of sense from where you stand. I'm not sure if I have understood you correctly, but I think you have an expectation that love will triumph over all? I used to think that myself. I don't believe it anymore though. I think that a successful long-term marriage needs work - mostly, a lot of open, honest communication. People "cheat" when their needs in the marriage aren't being met. It's a terrible solution, I admit. But it happens a lot and when you are faced with the temptation, there can be factors that make it almost irresistable.

 

 

Please tell me, why the hell, love or not, should I stay with someone I could no longer trust?

I'm going to snip a lot of the other stuff and address this point, because I think it's the fundamental point you are trying to make. If there's no trust left, then you are a prisoner, yes? I get that. No-one should stay in a trustless relationship.

 

I think that's the whole point here. Trust is everything in a relationship. You are making it sound like trust is like glass - fragile, brittle and irretrievable once broken. I think it's more like a smashed car. Is it a write-off? Depends. Depends on a lot really. Is my spouse remorseful? Is their conscience operating? Are they willing to go the extra mile to re-build trust with me? Do I still want this relationship? Trust can be re-established, re-kindled, retrieved.

 

Is it rare for unfaithful spouses to recover? I don't know. I don't have any stats at hand. But regardless, if it's my marriage, the stats are irrelevant. There's only one marriage I would want to see saved, and that would be mine.

 

About children: it's not my place to comment on your kids. I don't know how old they are, or how they interpret their parents break-up. In my own case though, I was seven when my parents divorced. For many years, my mother often told me what a bad person my dad had been. I think she meant well, because she wanted me to believe that it was for the best.

 

What she didn't really understand though was that this coloured my view of my father, and I accepted her world-view for many years, keeping him at a distance. It was only in my late 20s that I started to see him as a person. I stopped hating him and found, to my amazement, a truly complex and sensitive individual who was more like me than my mother was. Sadly, I didn't have much time to enjoy that realisation because he died soon after.

 

Maybe this is one reason I come down so hard on bitter, dismissive terminology like "cheater". I think it's also why I feel we diminish ourselves if we just push away everyone who hurts us.

[65tr6]

Is it rare for unfaithful spouses to recover? I don't know. I don't have any stats at hand. But regardless, if it's my marriage, the stats are irrelevant. There's only one marriage I would want to see saved, and that would be mine.

wow, could not have said it better. I dont care if you stats says 99 out of 99 are against my decision, but when it comes to my life..i decide...not the stats, not the polls. .not others...and run with it. In this case i wanted to save this marriage and there were no second thoughts about it. Does it mean there are no boundaries ? NOOOOOOOO ! There are lots and my xWW knows it. In fact everyday we talk, she sees the stronger me that she didnt expect to see before. Does not mean i am not hurting. I am. But it is less frequent.

In a way every affair is the same but in another way every affair is different. Same in the sense of patterns that they follow...almost identical...but how you handle it could be SO different from case to case.

 

Hence the need for me to be strong and stay focussed. I know it could take months, may be even years but one thing is for sure. I am not settling for the old marriage...I want a much better married life. You know why ? Because i deserve it ! And if it means giving my xww a second chance I will do it (and I am actually doing it.).

[Mio]

Hence the need for me to be strong and stay focussed. I know it could take months, may be even years but one thing is for sure. I am not settling for the old marriage...I want a much better married life. You know why ? Because i deserve it ! And if it means giving my xww a second chance I will do it (and I am actually doing it.).

 

You have great, loving attitude, 65tr6. I wish you every success.

[Reggie]

I think one of the keys to recovering or forgiving is to fully accept that you , despite being imperfect, did not deserve or cause the cheating. This is tough to do , as a BS is often faced with unblievable blameshifting from a WS. Additionally, with the ego fairly smashed , a BS is susceptible to buying the blame. Taking blame may also give a BS a sense of control.

If you can really get on board with the notion that your WS is really a messed up person, a weak person, someone to be pitied, really, it seems easier to forgive him or her.

It is difficult for me to forgive my XW , as , unlike some WS's , she never admitted anything and certainly never has or will apologize. She is remorseless and ,possibly a sociopath. She has lied repeatedly to our kids and her family. Her parents have come to me and told me she is a habitual liar and sociopath.

But, something bad must have happened to her to make her this way. She cannot hurt me anymore and I feel sorry for her. I see her as such a limited person running through life hurting others, but also herself.

I need to realize that not all cheaters are this extreme and some do deserve a second chance. They are just less evolved than other people and badly damaged.

[Reggie]

For what it is worth,I need to say this about Dexter's position. Early in my readings and obsessive researchon this strange world of infidelity I had entered, I began corresponding with an LCP specializing in MC with an emphasis in infidelity situations.

Despite her investment in her business, she told me that the healthiest folks she dealt with , the folks that recovered best and seemd to, actually do the best in future relationships, were those that had Dexter's attitude.

She elaborated that these folks had a very well developed sense of right and wrong,as well as cause and effect. They understood that poor choices have consequences and they had the foresight to see that their own lives and the lives of their children would be less painful and happier by getting out and not having to struggle with such mixed feeling for the rest of their lives.

My own therapist said much the same thing , noting that in his practice, less than 15% of marriages survived infidelity. And, that figure was taken from a sampling of folks motivated to at least attempt to reconcile.

I realize that this is the opinion of but two therapists. But, much of my other reading has supported this , as well. If anyone is interested , I can give out some of the websites and authors that I recall on this.

It may sound like Dexter is giving out harsh, judgemental advise. But, it may well be that his advice is actually the kindest and will lead to peace. It's not what a BS wants to hear in the initial stages of panic. But, it may reflect reality much moreso than the propogandaa from sites promoting their marriage saving services for a fee.