busting my wife's affair

[Mio]

For what it is worth,I need to say this about Dexter's position. Early in my readings and obsessive researchon this strange world of infidelity I had entered, I began corresponding with an LCP specializing in MC with an emphasis in infidelity situations.

Despite her investment in her business, she told me that the healthiest folks she dealt with , the folks that recovered best and seemd to, actually do the best in future relationships, were those that had Dexter's attitude.

She elaborated that these folks had a very well developed sense of right and wrong,as well as cause and effect. They understood that poor choices have consequences and they had the foresight to see that their own lives and the lives of their children would be less painful and happier by getting out and not having to struggle with such mixed feeling for the rest of their lives.

My own therapist said much the same thing , noting that in his practice, less than 15% of marriages survived infidelity. And, that figure was taken from a sampling of folks motivated to at least attempt to reconcile.

I realize that this is the opinion of but two therapists. But, much of my other reading has supported this , as well. If anyone is interested , I can give out some of the websites and authors that I recall on this.

It may sound like Dexter is giving out harsh, judgemental advise. But, it may well be that his advice is actually the kindest and will lead to peace. It's not what a BS wants to hear in the initial stages of panic. But, it may reflect reality much moreso than the propogandaa from sites promoting their marriage saving services for a fee.

 

I hate turning this part of the thread into a war of opinions. I'm interested in alternative ideas and viewpoints on infidelity, but it's hard for me to really know what to do with an anonymous anecdote about one counsellor. I want to take something from it, but I can't. What does "healthy" mean? How can one counsellor have sufficient, longitudinal contact with enough couples to back up such a statement? I don't think they could. If you can point to me some literature, government websites or studies, the assertion could at least be tested.

 

FWIW, I can't equate "healthy" and "judgemental". Judgment is unhealthy psychologically. It leads straight to self-judgment, which forms the basis of most self-esteem disorders as well as interpersonal conflict.

[Reggie]

As I mentioned, it was simply the view of this one counselor I spoke to. But, she claimed to have an extensive background in this subject. I can't say for certain she is right.

As for what healthy means, she described it as the ability to move onwith less internal conflict and to form new realtiosnhips that were satisfying.

On the judgemental issue, I've always felt that that label gets a bad rap. Seems clear to me that in order to go through life, one has to make all types of judgements based on expierience. Those judgements would include self knowledge re one's capacity to stay with an unfaitful spouse, as well as trying to figure out if an unfaithful spouse is capable of making the changes needed to avoid cheating in the future. I have no problem with people using their judgement and do not think judging the morality of actions or the people committing the acts poses any threat to self esteem.

[Mio]

As I mentioned, it was simply the view of this one counselor I spoke to. But, she claimed to have an extensive background in this subject. I can't say for certain she is right.

 

I was actually interested in the references you offered. Can you list some?

 

 

Seems clear to me that in order to go through life, one has to make all types of judgements based on expierience Those judgements would include self knowledge re one's capacity to stay with an unfaitful spouse, as well as trying to figure out if an unfaithful spouse is capable of making the changes needed to avoid cheating in the future. I have no problem with people using their judgement and do not think judging the morality of actions or the people committing the acts poses any threat to self esteem.

 

There is a semantic difference between discernment and judgement, as Christians are fond of pointing out. Judgement involves applying value labels to things - good, bad, evil, worthless. You had me up until you said "judging the morality of actions or people".

[65tr6]

If you can really get on board with the notion that your WS is really a messed up person, a weak person, someone to be pitied, really, it seems easier to forgive him or her..

reggie, there is exactly the situation i am in. Call me someone with high self-esteem or whatever, it did not take long for me to realize that I was not the one responsible for the affair. I pushed her to the brink....even that is debatable...but i will accept my share of responsibility for the bad marriage. But more importantly i realized that she is one who needs help. Not me. And who better than someone who knows for so many years to lend her a helping hand ? Doesnt she deserve that ? That made it so much more easy for me to think and say "yes, i forgive you".

 

It is difficult for me to forgive my XW , as , unlike some WS's , she never admitted anything and certainly never has or will apologize. She is remorseless and ,possibly a sociopath. She has lied repeatedly to our kids and her family. Her parents have come to me and told me she is a habitual liar and sociopath...

yes that could be an issue. I could probably live with that in the beginning after the d-day out of desparation but once the shock lifts and i see things more clearly and gain some of my confidence back I can completely see where you were coming from. My wife admitted everything for most part....She answered all the questions i had for her..however painful it was for both of us. And i think that made a huge difference in how i started to see things after the shock.

 

Did you say she is remorseful now ? Did she ever come back and say how badly she hurt you ? I dont understand how can a person hurt someone so much and never even feel the remorse....

[Saville]

I think it is probably true that a BS does better if they simply divorce the WS. It won't help them resolve any personal issues, if any, but it does get rid of a mountainous problem relatively quickly. The BS can move on, they have their justification and no one will ever fault them for it. People that live with such polarity, where no colouring outside the edges is allowed, tend not to be terribly introspective, anyway. Hence, they break-up, and move on, hopefully with someone who is more aligned to their own biases. Yes, this is a sweeping generalization, but then a very painful life-experience can establish this kind of thinking. One doesn't have to read very far through the forums here to find unchallenged statements such as: "All men are dogs," "faithful men are pussy-whipped," "once a liar, always a liar." In each statement there is an element of truth, and any number of people, who have shared a similar experience, might relate to them.

 

My neighbour is an alcoholic. His first wife cheated on him, he jettison the WS, found a very nice younger model, and now lives quite happily. The fact that he speaks derogatorily to his new door-mat wife, and gets inebriated every evening, doesn't trouble him at all; and she sees enough in him to suffer in silence. Forgiving his first wife, and, at least, trying to work through the issues may have confronted him with some rather startlling and uncomfortable truths; namely, that he is a misogynistic a-sshole.

 

OTOH, my sister husband not only cheated on her, but he also choked her once until she passed out. We all encouraged her to leave him forthwith and not look back. It would have been the absolutely healthiest things she could have ever done for herself. But, she took him back, and they have led their own kind of private hell ever since.

 

"Unto thine own self be true." Listen to your heart, and if it rings true for you then follow the dictates therein. No rationalization, no navel-gazing, just...does this feel right in order for me to live a fulfilled life.

 

Saville

[Reggie]

Saville, like your sister's situation, the infidelity was the tip of the iceberg of the abuse present in my marriage. Without going into detail suffice to say that living with a personality disordered spouse, an alcoholic etc is hell and one does better to get out.

MIO, we'll have to disagree on whether it is healthy to make judgements of people based on their actions. I know of no other way to steer clear of people that are inclined to damage me by way of their actions than to use my best judgement. I could site extreme examples, like not inviting TEd Bundy over to babysit my kids. My point is that , based on a person's behavior, one has to make judgements as to whether it is safe to be around them. For some people, having been betrayed once is enough to lead them to conclude that the betrayer is not someone he or she wants in his life. The risk is just too great for them.

65, my XW has never acknowledged or aplogized and never will. I am still close to her family, her brothers, parents and Uncles. I've found that she had multiple relationships with married men before I met her, I found that she had lied to me for the 10 years we were married, claiming she had graduated colege when , in fact, she had dropped out, shacked up with a marrried guy and sent home fake transcripts to her parents.

During the course of our marriage, I was frequently doused with cold water when I showered or when I was dressed to go out. I was told I am like a woman and that I had no balls. I got silent treatments for offenses I had no idea were "wrong" lasting weeks. MY wife bounced over 6,000 in checks and stole the money set aside for our kids parochial school tuition to finance gifts and entertainment for her affair partner.

So, I don't expect an apology and I am glad to be out. I judge her to be nuts and mean. It is just the way she is.

[Reggie]

I was actually interested in the references you offered. Can you list some?

 

 

 

 

There is a semantic difference between discernment and judgement, as Christians are fond of pointing out. Judgement involves applying value labels to things - good, bad, evil, worthless. You had me up until you said "judging the morality of actions or people".

 

The things I recall reading containing this information were "How Can I Forgive YOu', by Janis Abram Spring, "The journey from Healing to Abandonment" by Susan Anderson, "Women's Infidelity II" by Michelle Langley.

A lot of this came from my therapist and the women therapist I was corresponding with, as well. I make no claim it is true, but it makes sense to me.

[Dexter Morgan]

I know it doesn't make a lot of sense from where you stand. I'm not sure if I have understood you correctly, but I think you have an expectation that love will triumph over all?

 

No. I know love doesn't triumph over all. So just as love, or lack of it, didn't keep the cheater from cheating, it shouldn't be expected of the betrayed to turn the other cheek due to "love".

 

 

I used to think that myself. I don't believe it anymore though. I think that a successful long-term marriage needs work - mostly, a lot of open, honest communication.

 

I agree. but to me, when one cheats, it negates any work or work that needs to be done.

 

 

 

People "cheat" when their needs in the marriage aren't being met.

 

My needs were far from met in my marriage. But I didn't cheat. oh well.

 

 

It's a terrible solution, I admit. But it happens a lot and when you are faced with the temptation, there can be factors that make it almost irresistable.

 

I found the couple times I had the opportunity on business trips highly resistable, even though my needs weren't met at home.

 

 

About children: it's not my place to comment on your kids. I don't know how old they are, or how they interpret their parents break-up. In my own case though, I was seven when my parents divorced. For many years, my mother often told me what a bad person my dad had been. I think she meant well, because she wanted me to believe that it was for the best.

 

What she didn't really understand though was that this coloured my view of my father, and I accepted her world-view for many years, keeping him at a distance.

 

here is the thing. My xW, by virtue of the people that came forward to tell me what she has done during our marriage once they found out we were getting a divorce, was with several different guys.

 

Both my kids are young, under 8. And I will not readily make available the information that their mother is an unscrupulous huss.

 

But if they ask me when they are older, I won't lie to them. I'll tell them what she did. But then I will drop it. I will only tell them the truth when I am asked. And if they don't ask, then they won't know.

 

 

It was only in my late 20s that I started to see him as a person. I stopped hating him and found, to my amazement, a truly complex and sensitive individual who was more like me than my mother was. Sadly, I didn't have much time to enjoy that realisation because he died soon after.

 

Maybe this is one reason I come down so hard on bitter, dismissive terminology like "cheater".

 

But if thats what they are, then thats what they are.

 

 

I think it's also why I feel we diminish ourselves if we just push away everyone who hurts us.

 

Whats wrong with pushing away those that hurt us? Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

[Dexter Morgan]

wow, could not have said it better. I dont care if you stats says 99 out of 99 are against my decision, but when it comes to my life..i decide...not the stats, not the polls. .not others...and run with it.

 

You are absolutely right. I will never come down on someone if they decide to stay with a cheater. All I can say is I wish them good luck. Although I will say I warned ya;)

 

 

In this case i wanted to save this marriage and there were no second thoughts about it. Does it mean there are no boundaries ? NOOOOOOOO ! There are lots and my xWW knows it.

 

What are those boundaries? I hope they include that going out drinking with friends without you is now over, and other activities like that.

 

 

 

Hence the need for me to be strong and stay focussed. I know it could take months, may be even years but one thing is for sure. I am not settling for the old marriage...I want a much better married life. You know why ? Because i deserve it ! And if it means giving my xww a second chance I will do it (and I am actually doing it.).

 

Very good. I hope it works for you.

 

But something also tells me that if it happens again, there will be a 3rd chance and so on.

 

But again, good luck with your decision. Been where you are and done that.

[65tr6]

What are those boundaries? I hope they include that going out drinking with friends without you is now over, and other activities like that..

 

Dexter, i am did not mention this but we are both from very conservative families. The boundaries are much more stringent than the ones i have read here. Without getting into details, she will let me know and ask me first if there is any talk/meeting with opposite sex outside professional work environment. Same goes for me. This is just one example.

 

But something also tells me that if it happens again, there will be a 3rd chance and so on.

I would be surprised if it happens again but I am prepared. Wont reveal it yet.

 

I hope you are wrong and I am right. Only time will tell right ?

[65tr6]

Both my kids are young, under 8. And I will not readily make available the information that their mother is an unscrupulous huss.

 

But if they ask me when they are older, I won't lie to them. I'll tell them what she did. But then I will drop it. I will only tell them the truth when I am asked. And if they don't ask, then they won't know..

 

I feel for you Dexter. With two kids- must be painful. Let me ask you this...(i havent read your full story)...was she ever sorry for what she did to you ? Or did you just kick her out and it was over ?

 

Whats wrong with pushing away those that hurt us? Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

The issue in my case was she never thought she was hurting me until now. I did nt know myself how badly i was hurting until i started to grieve. It was not a one day or two day process. It took me weeks. And she saw me through all of this. It shook her completely.

 

And what's wrong in helping someone who hurt you (knowingly or out of stupidity) if they are truely remorseful and need your help?

[Mio]

but to me, when one cheats, it negates any work or work that needs to be done.

 

I know that was your solution, and in your situation, I may well have done the same. But there are many other times where staying and trying to work things out might be better. The option is definitely there to leave. No-one is obligated. I'm just saying that staying is an equally valid option sometimes.

 

 

My needs were far from met in my marriage. But I didn't cheat. oh well. I found the couple times I had the opportunity on business trips highly resistable, even though my needs weren't met at home.

I think that's the problem in a way. You've never really experienced the kind of compelling conditions I'm talking about. I resisted dalliances for about 15 years, and 5 years before that with my first girlfriend. Never seriously tempted. But it all changed when I met 'her'. I didn't jump at the opportunity, I kept my walls up for a long time, and I never let it get physical. But one day, I had to admit to myself I was caught up in an EA. The guilt and shame of that almost destroyed me.

 

I'm just saying, until you experience that, it's easy to think that willpower or self-control will get you through every time. But life isn't always like that. Everyone has a price.

 

 

here is the thing. My xW, by virtue of the people that came forward to tell me what she has done during our marriage once they found out we were getting a divorce, was with several different guys.

I'm really sorry to hear that. I've read recently in studies that about half of all affairs are never discovered. I can see why you divorced. I think all trust was destroyed.

 

 

Both my kids are young, under 8. And I will not readily make available the information that their mother is an unscrupulous huss.

 

But if they ask me when they are older, I won't lie to them. I'll tell them what she did. But then I will drop it. I will only tell them the truth when I am asked. And if they don't ask, then they won't know.

That sounds like a good plan. They still need to have a relationship with their mom.

 

 

Whats wrong with pushing away those that hurt us? Sounds perfectly reasonable to me.

In your situation, probably warranted. I'm just saying that it's often more complicated than this. If you feel like exploring the infidelity topic at all, I can recommend this site:

 

http://www.truthaboutdeception.com/

 

Seems to be quite neutral and not pushing anything or selling anything. I learned quite a few things I hadn't thought of. It reminded me that not everyone thinks like me.

[Reggie]

Kind of circular reasoning , though, MIO, saying that the fact that Dexter never cheated necessarily means he never met the equivalent of "her". It's projecting to assume that he was never subjected to the same temptaions as you and this is the reason he did not act as you did.

One could also conclude that , perhaps, he is stronger than you in this regard. He may have met women that he felt more drawn to than you did "her". We simply do not know.

I often see the proposition set forth that anyone is capable of cheating under the right circumstances. I don't think we have any proof of that and, I feel there are folks that woud never cheat under any circumstances.

I agree , the decison to stay or go is entirely up to the BS, if he or she has the option. A serial cheater like Dexter's wife is a poor risk and he alone can assess that risk . Same with folks that decide to try to reconcile.

It obviously bothers you that you were unfaithful. But, I don't think trying to convince yourself that all folks are capable of cheating will help you deal with your feelings.

[Mio]

But, I don't think trying to convince yourself that all folks are capable of cheating will help you deal with your feelings.

 

I don't think you're really getting what I'm saying. You're giving way to much credit to the power of will. If you had spoken to me in 2004, I may have sounded a lot more like Dex. I've been round the block a couple of times since, so I have a better understanding of people's fallibility.

 

You sound like you're intellectually curious. Have a browse of that website I linked to above (Truth About Deception). It gave me a broader understanding of infidelity than I could glean from the warring factions on LS.

[Dexter Morgan]

It may sound like Dexter is giving out harsh, judgemental advise. But, it may well be that his advice is actually the kindest and will lead to peace.

 

I will say that if a BS thinks they are at peace by staying with their betrayer, then godspeed to them.

 

But I saw there would be no peace in my life and I'd be married to someone I'd always have to be suspicious about from that point on. And that is no life and there is no peace as far as I'm concerned.

 

 

It's not what a BS wants to hear in the initial stages of panic.

 

Oh trust me, i know all well about the panic of finding out that a marriage may end. But the panic had more to do with my kids lives being turned upside down. I didn't want to even think about divorce. But as soon as I started thinking more clearly I asked myself, "do I want to be married to someone I can't trust? Do I want to be married to someone I will always look at and have to wonder about?"

 

The answer was no.

[Dexter Morgan]

Dexter, i am did not mention this but we are both from very conservative families. The boundaries are much more stringent than the ones i have read here. Without getting into details, she will let me know and ask me first if there is any talk/meeting with opposite sex outside professional work environment. Same goes for me. This is just one example.

 

And what would she be doing that would put her in a situation schmoozing it with other men? going out for drinks after work? A ladies night out?

 

If so, I'd say those days are over for her if she truly wants to show you she has no interest in other men.

 

 

I would be surprised if it happens again but I am prepared. Wont reveal it yet.

 

I hope you are wrong and I am right. Only time will tell right ?

 

My friend, I hope I am wrong too. I really do.

 

But experience tells me otherwise.

[Dexter Morgan]

I feel for you Dexter. With two kids- must be painful. Let me ask you this...(i havent read your full story)...was she ever sorry for what she did to you ? Or did you just kick her out and it was over ?

 

Oh she claimed she was sorry, but in my mind I knew she wasn't to be trusted again and she wasn't anyone I wanted to be with any longer.

 

 

The issue in my case was she never thought she was hurting me until now.

 

Well then I'm sorry to say, and no offense to you, but she has to be one of the biggest idiots to not realize an affair would hurt you.

 

 

And what's wrong in helping someone who hurt you (knowingly or out of stupidity) if they are truely remorseful and need your help?

 

 

First off, why would you help her? It is HER that needs to be helping you.

 

And if you want to stay with someone that you think is remorseful, again, good luck with that.

 

But if you think that she, remorseful or not, all of a sudden doesn't want to hunger to be with another man ever again, you are fooling yourself.

She may make the committment to never cheat again, but deep down, she'd like that thrill.

 

Like I said, good luck with that. I just have the opinion that more people want to work it out for fear of the unknown. What will happen to their children, finances, will they ever meet anyone else if they get divorced.

 

I know I went through those emotions and thoughts. In the end, the idea of being with someone that could so callously betray me like that made me want to wretch.

[Dexter Morgan]

I think that's the problem in a way. You've never really experienced the kind of compelling conditions I'm talking about. I resisted dalliances for about 15 years, and 5 years before that with my first girlfriend. Never seriously tempted. But it all changed when I met 'her'. I didn't jump at the opportunity, I kept my walls up for a long time, and I never let it get physical. But one day, I had to admit to myself I was caught up in an EA. The guilt and shame of that almost destroyed me.

 

now I know why you are an advocate for 2nd chances for cheaters.

 

 

I'm just saying, until you experience that, it's easy to think that willpower or self-control will get you through every time. But life isn't always like that. Everyone has a price.

 

No, not everyone has a price. I know you'd like to think that because you had an affair. Trust me, the opportunities were there, and with women men would kill to hook up with. But I took my vows seriously and I don't break them for anyone. That is with the exception of a cheating spouse, then I will break the vows with divorce.

 

But thats a moot point really. I'll never get married again.

[Mio]

No, not everyone has a price. I know you'd like to think that because you had an affair.

 

I don't like thinking about it actually. But it happens to be true. The infallibility of will is a compelling illusion, I know. A comforting thought too! But it all comes crashing down one day - the loss of innocence that someone who you thought was incorruptible had a breaking point. Maybe it's you, a family member, or a vaunted friend.

 

I think deep down you know I am right too. You fear re-marrying because of this, yes?

[Dexter Morgan]

I think deep down you know I am right too. You fear re-marrying because of this, yes?

 

No, I fear that SOME people have a price and are weak and I'm not going to take the chance that I end up with one of them.

 

For myself, and I know others are out there....never cheated, never will cheat.

[Mio]

For myself, and I know others are out there....never cheated, never will cheat.

 

Well aren't you special!

 

PS. One more post and I get special powers!!! Or is it 51? Or 52? I can't remember.

[Reggie]

I don't think you're really getting what I'm saying. You're giving way to much credit to the power of will. If you had spoken to me in 2004, I may have sounded a lot more like Dex. I've been round the block a couple of times since, so I have a better understanding of people's fallibility.

 

You sound like you're intellectually curious. Have a browse of that website I linked to above (Truth About Deception). It gave me a broader understanding of infidelity than I could glean from the warring factions on LS.

I'll check it out.

As for the power of will, I do believe in it. It, evidently , works, as not all folks cheat, despite being exposed to temptations such as you faced with "her".

Cut yourself some slack. You betrayed your values at one point. Does not mean you are forever doomed to repeat that.

Some of the finest people I know have messed up, big time in their lives.

It's hard for me to relate to a BS that is dealing with a truly remorseful Ws, as I have never expierienced that. I would not rule out staying together if there was true remorse. Just never saw it in my situation.

Many folks are like Dexter, and this type of betrayal is the point of no return for them. No one should be asked to deal with the type of crap an affair brings. If someone wants to take that on, if the cost benefit analysis weighs in favor of reconciling, that's fine.

[Mio]

I'll check it out.

As for the power of will, I do believe in it. It, evidently , works, as not all folks cheat, despite being exposed to temptations such as you faced with "her".

 

It's true that not everyone ends up having an affair. As for will, we'll have to agree to disagree. I cope with my lack of belief in pure willpower by believing in the essential goodness of people and doing what's required to mitigate our human flaws.

 

It reminds me of a documentary I saw about a hospital. They had something like the highest rate of staff mistakes in the state. So they took a revolutionary approach: they started with the assumption that people were fallible. They re-designed all their processes and protocols around that idea e.g. they colour-coded their injections, made rules about keeping certain dangerous drugs in separate rooms (if those drugs had lethal interactions). That sort of thing. They became a model for the whole health industry.

 

 

Cut yourself some slack. You betrayed your values at one point. Does not mean you are forever doomed to repeat that. Some of the finest people I know have messed up, big time in their lives.

I forgave myself, but not before I had a good look at some of the least attractive parts of my character. I think the fact that I did that makes it less likely to happen in future. Not impossible, but less likely. I would see the warning signs a lot earlier and would act accordingly. In fact, I have already done this on a couple of occasions with female friends.

 

 

It's hard for me to relate to a BS that is dealing with a truly remorseful Ws, as I have never expierienced that. I would not rule out staying together if there was true remorse. Just never saw it in my situation.

Many folks are like Dexter, and this type of betrayal is the point of no return for them. No one should be asked to deal with the type of crap an affair brings. If someone wants to take that on, if the cost benefit analysis weighs in favor of reconciling, that's fine.

I understand, and I think we have common ground there. I did start reading some interviews with Janis Abrahms Spring (one of the authors you recommended), and came upon a couple of interesting responses:

Q. Does having an affair usually end a marriage?

A. People will often ask me what my success rate is. My response is I don't base my success on whether or not people stay together. It's based on whether or not people make a thoughtful self-interested decision about staying together [or separating].

 

Q. Are people who have affairs likely to have them again?

A. I want to say that affairs also happen to good people in good marriages, people who enter marriage fully expecting to be monogamous. It's a value they believe in and teach their children and something's gone terribly wrong that they never dreamed of, never counted on. They feel terribly ashamed.

 

Q. Do you think it is better to stay together for the sake of children?

A. What matters, Constance Ahrons says in her book, ''The Good Divorce,'' is that you form a parenting partnership for the sake of the children and that you learn to care about your children more than you hate each other.

 

We're not experts on relationships. We're not prepared for the normal disillusionment that takes place in every healthy, enduring relationship. One day we wake up and feel terribly let down by our partner and it's easy to blame your partner and not have a clue how you've contributed to it.

 

More here:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A07EFDB1E3EF936A25752C1A96E958260

[Reggie]

I like Abrams Spring's stuff, particularly the distinction she draws between acceptance and forgiveness. I found acceptance to be particularly applicable to my situation,asSprings feels that forgivenss is a two way street requiring the offender to acknowledge the offense and seek forgivenss. I never got that from my XW and I'm told by her folks to never expect it.

As for will ,perhaps I am not following you. Seems to me the precautions put in place by the hospital and by yourself are exercises in willpower. I don't see the two concepts, exercising and implementing precautions and using your willpower to keep them in place, as mutually exclusive. They go hand in hand.

[Mio]

Yes, I liked where she said in that interview that the hurt partner needs the sense that the unfaithful partner has compassion for the harm that they've caused - that being the basis for trust. I think I also liked her pragmatism - that success is not about staying together, it's about reaching an informed decision together.

 

About will: I think we act unconsciously a lot of the time, and sometimes our emotions overpower our better judgement. In the hospital situation, things can get busy and tense. An experienced nurse can o/d a patient or combine two drugs that interact fatally. I wouldn't see that as a weakness or deficiency in character or skill. Stuff happens.

 

Or another example: my ex-wife and I used to fight physically sometimes. It's ugly to remember. We learned to trust in time-outs, and that we could sort out our differences with words. Before that, our willpower wasn't enough in the moment. We knew each other's weaknesses implicitly, and we could ratchet up the pressure until someone got hurt.