Reggie Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Get both her books, "After the Affair" and "How Can I Forgive You". Also, that Anderson book, "The Journey from Abandonment To Healing" is really good for a BS trying to understand the feelings that come from betrayal. Anderson explains the Neurophysiology causing the feelings and their genesis. As for the nurse Od'ing a patient, the critical distinction to me is the lack of intent. She is not violating her values, but simply making an error. I know some people that are temendously strong, yet not overbearing or judgemental. These folks have strong wills and resist violating their core values. Some were not always this way and it takes a lot of upkeep to remain so strong. Link to post Share on other sites
Mio Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Thanks for the book recommendations, Reggie. I've added them to my reading list. I saw some very positive reviews on Amazon for them. It's interesting what you say about intent and values. There are many nurses who have been traumatised after they discovered that their mistake resulted in a patient's death. It trangresses their values to do no harm and to carry out their duties with the highest sense of professionalism. I'm not sure I can convince you on the issue of intent. Some WS's enter affairs knowing full well what they are doing. I think some drift into an EA by degrees. Affairs aren't always pre-meditated. Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Perhaps a case could be made for a friendship crossing the line to an EA withiout intent, although that might be a stetch if a bunch of romantic language and feelings are expressed. But, no way does one gradually slip into having sex with another. I think is all affairs, as OWL points out, there are a series of decision being made that any person of normal intelligence knows are wrong, dishonest and a violation of vows. Link to post Share on other sites
Mio Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Perhaps a case could be made for a friendship crossing the line to an EA withiout intent, although that might be a stetch if a bunch of romantic language and feelings are expressed. But, no way does one gradually slip into having sex with another. Sure. We have a strong taboo about it in our culture. I think is all affairs, as OWL points out, there are a series of decision being made that any person of normal intelligence knows are wrong, dishonest and a violation of vows. That's a fairly compassionless view of things. It's this attitude I think that creates all the combat on the infidelity boards. Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 I have no compassion in this area. Infidelity is widely viewed as the most severe form of emotional abuse. I just do not have compassion for someone acting so cruelly. Unlike what we see portrayed on TV and in movies, BS's are traumatized to the max by this stuff. Jobs are lost, mental health is compromised, massive weight loss takes place in weeks, sleep is impossible for a long time. BS's commit suicide. Children are really adversely affected. So, no compassion for someone making the decision to cheat. Link to post Share on other sites
jwi71 Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 The issue in my case was she never thought she was hurting me until now. I did nt know myself how badly i was hurting until i started to grieve. It was not a one day or two day process. It took me weeks. And she saw me through all of this. It shook her completely. And what's wrong in helping someone who hurt you (knowingly or out of stupidity) if they are truely remorseful and need your help? 65, my W and I had the same thought process. For the first several MONTHS, she was in denial. Oh she apologized and said she was sorry - but didn't (couldn't?) understand what she had done. It didn't click for her until recently. Only recently did she begin to think like a human again. Now, when she says sorry...she means it and the words have impact. Because she means it - she understands - she GETS it. Damn frustrating that was. But look at the reward I have: a W who gets it. A W who can truly appreciate ME for who I AM. Its a hard road to walk for a BS. But if YOU want it bad enough - and the W works on herself, you can have the M back. Not alone 65...BTDT...and still in process. Are you guys in MC yet? (you knew I would ask) Link to post Share on other sites
Dexter Morgan Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Well aren't you special! . No, I'd be special if I was the only one in the world that never cheated and never will. I know others are out there. Link to post Share on other sites
Dexter Morgan Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 I have no compassion in this area. Infidelity is widely viewed as the most severe form of emotional abuse. I just do not have compassion for someone acting so cruelly. Unlike what we see portrayed on TV and in movies, BS's are traumatized to the max by this stuff. Jobs are lost, mental health is compromised, massive weight loss takes place in weeks, sleep is impossible for a long time. BS's commit suicide. Children are really adversely affected. So, no compassion for someone making the decision to cheat. very well said:cool: Link to post Share on other sites
Author 65tr6 Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 Are you guys in MC yet? (you knew I would ask) yes sir, i knew you would ask. Actually i have doing lot of research of benefits of MC in situation like this. I mean like ours - not any MC - but the one that specializes in Infidelity. Unfortunately i am not seeing lot of positives out there. Either you find Divorce Counsellors disguised as MCs or they just dont seem to have a good plan. Funny thing I wanted MC several weeks ago but i am now wary. I have noticed very very subtle changes. But i believe she is still in denial that i love her - strange as it may sound. May be she thinks how could i have behaved the way i did, before the A, if i had loved her. The emotional connection is still mssing ...And i know that will take a lot of time. I would love her to see her talk to me about our relationship on her own. May be how she feel what she did during the A or what she is thinking right now. I feel that i have to prive all the answers from her. I know they are honest but she is not forthcoming. I dont think it is the communication issue (but i could be wrong). But then i also think it takes times. Months more. I just have to be very patient. We both talked yesterday about how far we have come along in the last several months after d-day. Back then on the d-day we both had no clue what was waiting for us. Fast forward and there we are saying to ourselves "we made it through what was the worst possible phase of our life intact - if any, as better human beings - things can only get better right ?" I can truely appreciate it when you say it didnt click for her until recently. I am really glad you can see that changes in your wife. I am very happy for you. Nicely said, your wife appreciating you for what you are. I know exactly what you mean. Let me ask you this....You think your wife is able to connect with you emotionally ? And you really think MC helped you ? Or did that help your wife more ? Link to post Share on other sites
taylor Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 The emotional connection is still mssing ...And i know that will take a lot of time. I would love her to see her talk to me about our relationship on her own. May be how she feel what she did during the A or what she is thinking right now. I feel that i have to prive all the answers from her. I know they are honest but she is not forthcoming. I dont think it is the communication issue (but i could be wrong). But then i also think it takes times. Months more. I just have to be very patient. Hi 65tr6, I know how frustrating it can be to try and pull thoughts and feelings out of someone. One thing that worked for my H and I was this: Each of you think of one specific question you would like the other to answer. You can start it something like this, "How does/did it make you feel when...." Write the questions on paper and then exchange the questions. Take about 10 or 15 minutes to get your thoughts and feelings together and write your answers. Exchange papers, read answers and discuss them. By writing the answer to one specific question, and being given time to pull thoughts together, it makes sharing intimate feelings less intimidating, less overwhelming. It takes the pressure off to respond on the spot. And the answers can be more honest and heartfelt. Do you really think MC helped you ? Or did that help your wife more ? I know this question was posed to another poster, but I would like to respond, too. MC didn't seem to help either one of us until the affair fog lifted. Our MC quickly realized this, postponed joint sessions, and dealt with me in IC for the first few months. Since then we have resumed MC. Progress is slow, lagging mainly on my end. But we are making more progress than we could have 6 months ago. I have not stopped IC though. All in all, I'd say the IC has been the most productive so far in helping our marriage get back on track. It opened the door to more effective MC. Link to post Share on other sites
jwi71 Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Let me ask you this....You think your wife is able to connect with you emotionally ? And you really think MC helped you ? Or did that help your wife more ? My wife is beginning to reconnect - yes. I'll break it down like this: 1-2 months after A: She was in denial. Still in A fog. Very hard times as she was recovering from "him" and deciding which man to choose. Actually, she wanted "him" but stayed for our kids. Sucks to hear but true. 2-4 months: The MC began to have effect. I would find her staring into space on the bed...breaking the trance only when she noticed me. The fog began to lift with NC, MC. 4-6 months: Fog lifting, communicating better. She can finally understand what I had been telling her. Had to stifle the "I told you so's" - which was hard. Or MC began to start saying "good progress" to her and myself. 6+ months: She is beginning to understand "us" and "me". She NOW realizes what has been lost. And it hurts her. True remorse. She sees me in a different light now. I can begin to see the woman I once married. I hope she begins to see (she is) how I have changed into the man she married. We finally have happy, truly happy times. Still have nasty ones too... It has been made easier because she never formed a deep attachment to him. They dated for two weeks then she slept with him. One less hurdle I suppose I should be thankful for. I also openly accept my role and my faults. Open and honest communication is KEY. In fact, she has said that MY going to MC and working on myself helped her go forward. I think its true. Hint, hint. No doubt in my mind that MC helped. I used to be of the "MC/IC was psychobabble from liberal arts majors - little more than modern day snake oil". I was wrong. Who did it help more? Not a fair question. It helped US. You gotta lose that "me and her" thinking. Its you two together - to hell with any scorecard. Look, she has different issues than you do. You were "bad" in some manner and she cheated - so who is more broken? Comprende? Just go already. Find an MC, make an appt and go. It will not be fun. You will leave angrier than when you went in at first. It will seem like your moving backwards. But if you stick with it, the MC starts to make sense - you start to "get it". Then you look back and see how broken the M was - you are THANKFUL to have gone. The MC will either heal your M or expedite its end. After all, if you go to MC and your W "turtles" or doesn't try - you have your answer don't you. Go, give it 6 months. I think you'll be glad you did. Link to post Share on other sites
Mio Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I have no compassion in this area. Infidelity is widely viewed as the most severe form of emotional abuse. I just do not have compassion for someone acting so cruelly. OH WOW!!!!!! This is one of those "You can't handle the truth!" moments. Reggie, you're entitled to think what you like of course. But what purpose would have posting in the OW/OM forum? Surely the only response you could have in there would be negative - and therefore hurtful? Link to post Share on other sites
Mio Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Just go already. Find an MC, make an appt and go. It will not be fun. You will leave angrier than when you went in at first. It will seem like your moving backwards. But if you stick with it, the MC starts to make sense - you start to "get it". Then you look back and see how broken the M was - you are THANKFUL to have gone. The MC will either heal your M or expedite its end. After all, if you go to MC and your W "turtles" or doesn't try - you have your answer don't you. Go, give it 6 months. I think you'll be glad you did. Thumbs up from me too. MC was very trying at first, but it made a big difference to both of our lives. My own M ultimately ended, but we had a lot of time to think things through. We discovered how broken our M was right from the start, and why in spite of our best intentions, it went off the rails. We also forgave each other. I chose to end it. Today, she has moved onto another relationship but we are still on good terms with each other. Link to post Share on other sites
Mio Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Most black guys are not welcome at Klan meetings, MIO. LOL, I'm sure they'll make an exception for you As for my purpose in posting, it's the same as yours, I expect: to express my views. No, I post to try and (hopefully) help people. Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Well, keep trying. Maybe you'll post something helpful after a while. You know, they say if you put a bunch of monkeys in a room with typewriters for a few billion years, they'll crank out all the great literary works, verbatim , eventually. Link to post Share on other sites
Mio Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 LOL! Thanks Reggie. I'll keep praying for your black heart Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I do like old people,animals and kids. My heart is black as regards remorseless cheaters. Pray for my black ass, as well. We got the White House now, baby. Link to post Share on other sites
Mio Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 I do like old people,animals and kids. My heart is black as regards remorseless cheaters. Pray for my black ass, as well. We got the White House now, baby. You're fast becoming my favourite bigot Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 You're fast becoming my favourite bigot Thank you very much. Thank you very much, indeed. (Just saw Frost/Nixon.) Link to post Share on other sites
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