Long:Thinking about opening up my marriage...

[Owl]

Hmm. Maybe it's because I'm 'European' lol but I see her point entirely. I also live with one ex and am good friends with another .

 

Why would you want to drop a friend because of 'complications'? She's clearly telling you that it's no problem for her. You get on well together, stimulate each other intellectually, and can spend quality time together without having to leap into bed and express things sexually. At least on her part. So why make her out to have 'issues with letting go'?

 

Maybe there are no issues at all here and you and she just have very different ways of looking at things? Of course there's also the fact that she doesn't feel the need to have sex with you (even if she likes the idea), so of course it's going to be less of a 'complication' for her.

 

I still think the biggest problem here is that your marriage is all to pot and needs sorting out. If you were happy with him, you could probably enjoy many 'platonic' evenings with your friend too.

 

She would have to drop this friendship as it remains a very, very likely source of destruction and devestation for her marriage.

 

She's "falling in love" with this woman, which will nearly always result in her "falling out of love" with her husband.

 

She can't do anything to sort out the problems in her marriage while this woman remains a viable alternative to the marriage relationship. Her H can't possibly match up to the fantasy of being with this woman that she's developed...and this will remain a huge roadblock to any attempts at "sorting out" her marriage at all.

[Owl]

So, what is your "plan" at this point, Waiting?

 

Now that you know that your H isn't comfortable with what's going on at all, and you know that your girlfriend isn't interested in pursuing a 'change' in your relationship...what are you going to do from here?

 

HOW do you propose fixing things in your marriage, and/or are you looking for advice/suggestions on that front?

[frannie]

She would have to drop this friendship as it remains a very, very likely source of destruction and devestation for her marriage.

 

She's "falling in love" with this woman, which will nearly always result in her "falling out of love" with her husband.

 

She can't do anything to sort out the problems in her marriage while this woman remains a viable alternative to the marriage relationship. Her H can't possibly match up to the fantasy of being with this woman that she's developed...and this will remain a huge roadblock to any attempts at "sorting out" her marriage at all.

 

Only the friend doesn't want to be a sexual partner?

 

The problems in the marriage remain. Maybe it's time to admit that the existence or non-existence of someone outside the marriage aren't the main problem IN the marriage.

 

I think your cause and effect are back to front. The marriage was bad, so she went looking, not the other way round (she found someone, so she pretended the marriage was bad). This marriage is bad. Hence the (not happening) affair.

[Owl]

Only the friend doesn't want to be a sexual partner?

 

The problems in the marriage remain. Maybe it's time to admit that the existence or non-existence of someone outside the marriage aren't the main problem IN the marriage.

 

I think your cause and effect are back to front. The marriage was bad, so she went looking, not the other way round (she found someone, so she pretended the marriage was bad). This marriage is bad. Hence the (not happening) affair.

 

The "cause and effect" right now is out the window.

 

An affair...even a purely emotional affair...is BOTH cause and effect.

 

It doesn't matter whether or not this other woman wants to sleep with her...it doesn't matter if this affair is physical or not...the EMOTIONAL affair is already in effect.

 

Hence my advice.

 

I completely agree that she has issues to address WITHIN the marriage, don't take me wrong. BUT...addressing those while there's another person in the picture is pretty much impossible in the vast majority of instances.

 

Look at this like an illness...there is some kind of infection going on (problems in the marriage) that's the "cause" of the problem.

 

The fever (the affair) is just a symptom.

 

But...the fever is high enough that if you don't treat it FIRST...the patient will die before the antibiotics can ever be given the chance to take effect.

 

Deal with the fever FIRST...then treat the SOURCES of the infection.

[frannie]

Look at this like an illness...there is some kind of infection going on (problems in the marriage) that's the "cause" of the problem.

 

The fever (the affair) is just a symptom.

 

But...the fever is high enough that if you don't treat it FIRST...the patient will die before the antibiotics can ever be given the chance to take effect.

 

Deal with the fever FIRST...then treat the SOURCES of the infection.

 

And as a plantswoman... healthy plants don't get infections.

 

You have yourself a decent plant/relationship, it doesn't matter how many bugs are going around, your plant is going to be just fine, because it's not susceptable.

 

You can keep on blaming the infections as long as you like, but unless you have a healthy plant, its going to be set upon again and again and again.

[Owl]

Granted...but if you have a plant that is ALREADY infected with parasites (regardless of how), the first step is to remove the parasites so that they don't kill the plant. THEN you can take the preventative measures to ensure that there's no recurrence of the infestation.

 

The vast majority of cases we see here on LS are to the point where you've got to deal with the situation FIRST...THEN you can deal with what caused it and fix that long term.

[waitingfordaddylongl]

Dear all,

 

Wow...Thanks for all your thoughful comments and suggestions (for those of you who were trying to be helpful and not hurtful), but this marriage is not going to work.

I blamed myself; I really did think that the lack of intimacy was somehow my fault even though I knew he was watching porn and not really taking care of himself. I admit that I developed feelings for my friend because I was lonely and probably bi-curious. I moved away from all my friends and family to be with him and he hasn't really supported me financially, or been there for me emotionally. I thought we had normal problems, and that the porn wasn't that big a deal. I would look on his pc history sometimes and see that he'd looked at booty shaking videos on myspace, or photos saved of girl's asses and I thought it's no big deal, right? Wrong. Tonight I went through his stuff. I snooped, and I found something. My husband is usually very careful, but he wasn't careful enough to put his flash drives away in a secure location. I guess he trusted me not to go through his things. The bastard has 3 flash drives full of pornographic photos, short porn clips, and sex stories. Not only does he have a serious porn problem, but you should read some of these stories...no actually no-one should read any of these stories. They depict sex scenarios between younger people and older people: young girls (babysitters, and daughter's friends age17-18) with older men (fathers, uncles, famiy friends), 17-18 year old boys with their aunts and mothers, and a few of the stories are about girls aged 10-14 having sex with their uncles, fathers, neighbors, parents having sex young girls while they are asleep, girlscouts having sex with neighbors and family members to sell cookies, teenage brothers and sisters...etc. you get the picture?

The lack of intimacy and sex is not my fault!!!

My husband is ****ed up and I am completely disgusted with him. At least I wanted an extramarital affair with an adult and not a child. I'm not defending myself, but at least I was honest. I have a husband with a problem, and none of you can tell me that he doesn't have a problem. Looking at that much porn and reading those kinds of stories is a sign that something is wrong with him...and I can't help him. I can't even stand to have him touch me after this. I was a victim of sexual abuse by my uncle as a child. It took a lot of hard work and therapy for me to get over it and get my life together. I put myself through school; I help out my family. A lot of you think that I am a selfish person but you have no idea what it is like to be me.

My husbanc has done a lot in the past that made me think about leaving. I loved him so much that I stayed despite my misgivings, but I can't look over this. I don't see the point in trying to work through this. I can't plan a future with him, or have children with him knowing about his deviant sexual interests. How could I look myself in the mirror knowing that one day he might act on his lurid fantacies with his own daughter (if I gave him a daughter)?

I'll have to talk to him about this tomorrow. I want to do it right now. I want to wake him up and scream at him and throw his flash drives in his face. I want to scream for all the times that I gave in to keep the peace, and for all the times I told myself that I was messing things up. I want to scream for the abortion that he manipulated me into when we were still engaged because he wasn't ready to be a father. Oh, wait.. maybe I dodged a bullet with that one.

Anyways...I'm going to bed now because it's night time where I am right now. I'm going to bed in the guest bedroom, and I'll figure out the rest of it tomorrow.

Thanks for listening. Thanks for being there. Thanks for trying to save my reltionship even though you didn't know that it wasn't worth saving. It's not worth saving. This is not a little thing; this is major.

[whichwayisup]

Stop enabling his behaviour and definately talk to him. It's either he gets help for his porn addiction and goes to marriage counselling with you, or you're leaving him, filing for divorce. Yes, it's that simple.

[waitingfordaddylongl]

I didn't enable his behaviour.

Most guys have porn; I just didn't know how obsessed he was.

I don't want to help him.

He needs to help himself.

I am done.

I have had enough, and I don't think there is anything left to salvage.

And, I really don't think he will agree to counseling as I tried that in the past before I knew how bad the porn problem was and he refused to go. He refused to go when our relationship was already precarious.

I want to go home and be with my family.

I am thousands of miles away from my family and friends and I would honestly rather be there than here right now.

[Geishawhelk]

Then pack a bag before you go to bed.

Be ready to leave in the morning.

 

And sleep well.

[Lizzie60]

I agree... move on.. leave him and his obsessions... He is border-line pedophile and could be a threat to your daughter..

 

I would be exactly like you.. seeing him as a scumbag.. I can't deal with men who have a tendency to pedophily or incest.. they repulse me.. yuck..

 

I know how you feel.. this is gross..

 

Life is too short to live a miserable life with someone who disgust you.. leave him.. get yourself a nice apartment and start over again.. trust me.. you won't regret it..

 

Good luck! We all deserve to be happy.

[whichwayisup]

Then talk to a lawyer, get things started. Leave him, move back home to friends and family. No point in prolonging his pain and dealing with the fallout of leaving him. THAT is, if you're 100% sure of divorcing and moving on.

 

Though - Leaving him MAY make him want to change, may make him WANT to do counselling, if he sees action (you physically leaving him). Or is it too late? Even if he did agree and do changes to make things better?

[JamesM]

Ok, that thread started out in one direction and ended in another. I was waiting for the girl girl affair, and nothing...but now we have another story.

 

An attempt at humor. I understand that much of this story is painful for you to tell though.

 

Personally, I saw from the first post that your H has a porn addiction. Any guy who says you can have sex with someone else is either doing it because HE wants to cheat, or to avoid interpersonal sex or he wants to fantasize about it...you and someone else. I was surprised that he did not want you to pursue the woman.

 

I agree with you. Your marriage is over unless he overcomes this porn addiction. While I am sure that somewhere you have a little blame, truthfully, I don't know where. I am guessing he had that addiction before he met you.

 

Keep us updated. I think you should pursue MC with an ultimatum to your husband....either you or the porn. Let him choose.

[Mino]

Granted...but if you have a plant that is ALREADY infected with parasites (regardless of how), the first step is to remove the parasites so that they don't kill the plant. THEN you can take the preventative measures to ensure that there's no recurrence of the infestation.

 

The vast majority of cases we see here on LS are to the point where you've got to deal with the situation FIRST...THEN you can deal with what caused it and fix that long term.

But if the plant is already dead, you can waterit all you want, its dead... You just get a pot of mud... thats all...

[waitingfordaddylongl]

We had a long talk this morning about the porn among other things, and he confessed that he'd cheated on me while we were engaged and I was pregnant. Actually he slept with her twice a few days before he found out that I was pregnant, and pressured me into having an abortion. I had my suspisions about the cheating, but I didn't have any proof until now. They had unprotected sex twice during the same week and the other woman has been holding it over his head ever since. He hasn't been with her since we were engaged but he says that every time he tried to cut off communication (emails, calls) over the past 2 years she has threatened to tell me. And, while in her town on business, he met with her to 'talk' and that's it.So, I guess I was on the right board all along seeing as my husband is still in contact with a woman he cheated on me with when we were engaged, and he also has a serious porn addiction. He is also in a total state of denial about the porn thing. I don't mind so much about the sleeping with someone else; I mean I wouldn't if he had been up front about it, but to have unprotected sex with someone else...that's another story. He could have given me an STD.

 

Some of you out there might be laughing your asses off, and I wouldn't blame you. This is a ridiculous situation to be in...that being said. At least I was honest and told him when I was thinking about being with someone else. I didn't lie. I don't lie. I won't lie.

[JamesM]

So part or most of his reason for mentioning an Open Marriage is to level the playing field?

 

If you had sex with someone else, then he could then reveal that he had sex with this other woman, and yet keep hidden that he had sex with her prior to the arrangement.

 

This affair may be the reason that sex is a problem for him.

[Owl]

It sounds to me like both of you have valid reasons to end the marriage.

 

At this point, the question is simply...what do you want to do now?

 

Once you decide that...your game plan is pretty easy to work out.