vr6t Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 I need some advice. Been married for 4 years and had on and off problems - mostly related to communication. Recently it's gotten worse and she is very unhappy. She feels that I don't provide a spark, that we have no commonalities, that "we have no common bliss". We have been going to counseling once a week for a little over a month and last week she decided that it would be best if we separate (to determine whether we do feel we need each other). At first, she was considering moving out herself, but tonight she said that I had to go - and that all her friends have said it makes no sense for her to leave. We have a 2 yr old boy, and he and I have the greatest relationship. She does not have a great relationship with him - they are happy, but 9 times out of 10 he turns to me for play, support, and everything else. I don't want to separate, I'm not at the point I feel it will help - right now I see it only as a path to divorce, which I'm not prepared for (I'm frustrated with her because all she talks about it separation and our problems, and while we can have fun with each other, we haven't in a long time because the topic always turns to our relationship). Maybe separation is the best, but I'm worried about moving out myself - what will happen to my relationship with our son? Does this hurt my chances for custody if it does end in divorce? Does separation as a means to repair a relationship work? I'm open to as much advice as I can get...thanks. Link to post Share on other sites
dannydrifter Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 LOL! She said "you" have to go? Who pays the mortgage or rent? Besides that, you don't want to go -- you don't want to separate or divorce. So tell her (and her friends) if she wants to go, then she can f*off and go. Link to post Share on other sites
Author vr6t Posted November 6, 2008 Author Share Posted November 6, 2008 I could write for days but I'll try not to bore everyone... I do EVERYTHING in our relationship. I cook, do the dishes, shop for food, take care of the bills, take our son to daycare, bath him, put him to bed...and I think because I do all of the "survival" tasks, I don't think about (or have time for) the other things - dates, surprises, etc... My wife does some things, but not a lot. She admits she's lazy. If I don't cook dinner, she doesn't even notice until 10 pm, and then asks me to make her something! Her parents have told her they wouldn't be surprised if I had an affair since she does so little and that they wouldn't be upset if I did. I have not, will not, and have never even thought of going down that path (for the record). Why should I move out? I built this house (or at least remodeled most of it) and can't imagine not living here. And I can't stand the thought of not having my son nearby. Her master plan for separation - have me live somewhere else, but come over every morning to take our son to daycare, then pick him up after work (she can't do it herself - he cries, she can't bear to leave him there, and she's just given up trying), stay for dinner (i assume cook it too), and leave once he's in bed. Hell at that point, we might as well just sleep in separate rooms, it's almost the same! Link to post Share on other sites
Author vr6t Posted November 6, 2008 Author Share Posted November 6, 2008 LOL! She said "you" have to go? Who pays the mortgage or rent? Besides that, you don't want to go -- you don't want to separate or divorce. So tell her (and her friends) if she wants to go, then she can f*off and go. I pay mortgage (she pays daycare). She thinks me leaving will help her find out if we're meant to be, and also help her improve the relationship with our son... I understand her reasons, but she doesn't understand mine (for not wanting to go). And we're both stubborn, so far all we've done is get into arguments since neither of us wants to go, but we haven't made any progress. Link to post Share on other sites
dannydrifter Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Well it's pretty simple - tell her whoever wants the divorce has to go. Sounds like she is the one who wants it, so then she should pack her things and go (without your son either). Nobody can force you or your son to go anywhere. Don't be intimidated by what her friends say, or what she tells you they are saying. Her friends will always side with her. Be strong! Link to post Share on other sites
sumdude Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Well, man to man? You should locate your spine and your nads. Hate to tell you this.. but.. Fact very well may be that because you have allowed her to essentially have no responsibilities and do very little work fro the relationship she has lost respect for you. Hence the lack of 'spark'. In which case I agree with the others.. In a very firm but not angry way you tell her "You want out? You're on our own." Let her learn what it's like to take care of everything by herself. Link to post Share on other sites
n9688m Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Well it's pretty simple - tell her whoever wants the divorce has to go. Sounds like she is the one who wants it, so then she should pack her things and go (without your son either). Nobody can force you or your son to go anywhere. Don't be intimidated by what her friends say, or what she tells you they are saying. Her friends will always side with her. Be strong! Amen. From what he says, leaving will weaken his really good relationship with his son, weaken his argument for custody, and maybe cause him to lose his home. And he doesn't want to leave anyway. There's no argument in the world for him to move out . Either his wife can stay and they go to MC or his wife can move out. But even if the wife moves out, that doesn't mean she gets to take the son with her. Link to post Share on other sites
sumdude Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Her master plan for separation - have me live somewhere else, but come over every morning to take our son to daycare, then pick him up after work (she can't do it herself - he cries, she can't bear to leave him there, and she's just given up trying), stay for dinner (i assume cook it too), and leave once he's in bed. Hell at that point, we might as well just sleep in separate rooms, it's almost the same! So she wants to have her cake and eat it too? You still do all the work while she does what in the house at night without you around? I don't thiink so... Link to post Share on other sites
Enema Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 I agree with the others. It sounds like you're the prime bread winner, housekeeper and carer for your son. It makes far more sense for her to leave instead of you, if we're getting the whole story. Link to post Share on other sites
pelicanpreacher Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 This is a classic case of one parent losing themselves in parenthood to the extent that the marriage suffers. There is always a danger that lurks in the recesses of the marriage that the spouse(s) become too focused on children born of the marriage to prioritize time for themselves. The fact that your wife is "lazy" and lets you take care of running the household regressed her back into the role of a teenager again without any responsibilities. The only way you are going to be able to rectify this situation is for you to allow (or force) her to take on more responsiblity in running the household in order to open more time for the two of you to reconnect romantically again. As a matter of fact, this push by your wife for you to leave the residence may be rooted in her need to actualize herself as an adult partner in your marriage for I'm sure she has been constantly criticized and pressured by her parents to make changes in herself to at least keep you from straying for, as you've mentioned before, they alluded these very concerns directly to you in the past. The fact that you have soley determined how the household is run, what time amount you devote to your child, and what efforts you'll devote to maintianing connection with your wife throughout your marriage may have left her standing on the sidelines despairing in her role and growing more and more anxious and resentful as time went on. JMO! Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 OP, quietly get legal advice before deciding anything. Even the smallest decision made now can snowball. Remember, possession is 100% the best thing to have. Watch out for her friends to tell her to claim abuse if you won't go. I've seen what female friends can do to someone who's frustrated and itching for satisfaction. She'll believe everything they tell her. Beware... Hug your boy. You're blessed Link to post Share on other sites
Author vr6t Posted November 6, 2008 Author Share Posted November 6, 2008 pelicanpreacher - agree 100% with you. i've been thinking the same way, i've devoted myself to my boy and thats certainly led me to allow our relationship to lax - and at the same time made her feel less important. i'm glad to hear that from someone...it seems so clear now that you've described it to me! now, just need to fix it. i've tried getting her to take on additional responsibility, but not until we really started going downhill... and i think she hasn't taken it on because she is obsessed with making a big change in us (and doesn't see that she needs to take on some responsibility to allow me to have time to make our relationship work). now, how do i relay this opinion to her without getting into a fight... sumdude - i have let her move to a role of no responsibility. and maybe because i've lost my nads...but also because she miscarried our 2nd son at 5 mo and had surgery over the summer to fix the problems that caused it - i let that recovery period extend too long and too far and looking back realize i shouldn't have let it get this bad. carhill - i was thinking of getting some legal advice...i hate to do it because it's a step towards divorce, but at this point i need to protect myself and my son... her new main argument for me leaving is to re-establish and strengthn her relationship with our son. and her argument for separation itself is to find out if we're really meant to be. i'm leaning towards separation now, and i do want our son to have a better relationship with her, but i'm worried that helping her do it now (by leaving) will just hurt me later on - as many of you have agreed about. thanks for all the advice everyone, wish i'd found this site weeks/months ago! Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 OP, absent extraordinary circumstances, conventional wisdom is the proactive party (your W in this case) is the one who leaves, if "leaving" is a solution. Getting legal advice is no different than in any other instance. It's merely becoming educated about the relevant laws governing your M and family dynamic. To a certain extent you can do this yourself, but a competent lawyer knows the laws of your jurisdiction in more detail and can flesh out scenarios for you. IMO, the primary concern is keeping as healthy and as positive an environment for your son as possible. Knowledge is power Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 her new main argument for me leaving is to re-establish and strengthn her relationship with our son. Why is your absence required in order for her to have a relationship with her son? Does she feel that you undermine her in some way? What is your therapist take on this? Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
Crestfallen_KH Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 I agree with the others, and especially carhill: get some legal advice. In some states, moving out means you are "abandoning the family and the property" and it can really hurt you if this does go to divorce court. A judge may look at your action and decide she gets the house (possession is nine tenths of the law) and primary custody of your child since you just "walked away." Honestly? My guess is she mentioned that she was going to move out to her girlfriends and they quickly schooled her about what I just told you. I wouldn't budge an inch. Unfortunately, I would also prepare for the possibility that she will get more hostile. Once she knows you aren't going anywhere, she may try to "push" you out the door. I think this is going to get worse before it gets better. Protect yourself, and good luck. Link to post Share on other sites
Crestfallen_KH Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 Why is your absence required in order for her to have a relationship with her son? Does she feel that you undermine her in some way? What is your therapist take on this? Mr. Lucky Good question. My take? Her saying that him moving out will help her better bond with her son is pure B.S. She just wants him out the door. Link to post Share on other sites
n9688m Posted November 6, 2008 Share Posted November 6, 2008 her new main argument for me leaving is to re-establish and strengthn her relationship with our son. Translation: This will allow her to establish an argument for her to gain primary custody and her argument for separation itself is to find out if we're really meant to be. Translation: She can get you to move out with a lot less of a fight than if she asked for divorce outright. Link to post Share on other sites
Author vr6t Posted November 10, 2008 Author Share Posted November 10, 2008 thanks everyone for the comments and advice. things certainly got worse last week - had a huge fight regarding separation and my uncertainty in it being the proper path for us. i really think we need to do some things at home before jumping to that drastic of a decision. she says she wants it to salvage the marriage - but i'm worried - how many people separate and are able to hold things together? so now i'm playing two angles - first pushing against separation (hence the fighting) - second, pushing for rotation if we do separate, me out one week, her the next so our son stays home and neither of us is kicked out. not sure it'll work, but it sounded good in my head! waiting on a call from a lawyer so i don't know what this means in terms of abandonement, etc... thanks again everyone! glad i came across this site... Link to post Share on other sites
carhill Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 Don't leave until or unless you've received legal advice. It's these choices in the beginning which make all the difference. Staying strengthens your visible commitment to the marriage and your family. Let me ask you. Do you really think your W will have some kind of catharsis about your M by living separately from you? I can tell you, when my W and I tried this from a standpoint of business and personal needs (my W stayed at my mom's empty home during this time), our MC pushed for us to return to the same domicile to solidify our work in MC. Living separately, even without either of our intentions to separate, was counter-productive to the marriage-building process. I saw it as a great validation of that assertion. I would not separate unless I intended it to become a divorce. YMMV Link to post Share on other sites
sumdude Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 I would not separate unless I intended it to become a divorce. YMMV I agree. It seems that in most cases separation is simply a prelude to divorce. The hard part for you right now is to back off a bit. The more you argue to stay together the harder she will fight to leave. You are dealing with at cat partway up a tree. You try to chase it and grab it? It will just keep climbing until you can't see it anymore. You can't convince her of anything right now... it's too emotional and any rational arguments will fall on deaf ears. She rebelling for whatever reason.. so remember what it was like when you were a teen and how you wanted to do exactly the opposite of what someone was telling you to do. Don't agree to separate but don't fight to stay together. Don't plead or beg. Accept what's happening and act like you're fine with it even if inside you're felling insane. Looking back I can say that there was a very small window of opportunity (a month perhaps) between the time I felt something was wrong and when my ex wife suddenly moved out on me. By the time it all went down and then I turned my attitude around it was too late.. she was out and gone, game over. During that window I became weak, clingy, sad, trying to convince her and all those things... those things that make a woman look at a man and go.. "yikes, when did he become such a wimp?" and lose attraction. It's alll because of fear, fear of loss, loneliness etc etc Control your fear.. be the warrior inside. Be a cool customer... Either she'll take notice and start turning around or she's already gone in which case there's nothing you can do but move on. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 WHY is she insisting that you leave? What's going on that is leading to the end of the marriage? Is she seeing someone else? Link to post Share on other sites
Dexter Morgan Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 vr6t, she is the one that isn't happy, so why doesn't she move out instead of expecting you to? Link to post Share on other sites
n9688m Posted November 10, 2008 Share Posted November 10, 2008 second, pushing for rotation if we do separate, me out one week, her the next so our son stays home and neither of us is kicked out. That is impractical and will just let her have her cake and eat it too. She wants out of the marriage? Let her move out - plain and simple. But insist on half-time with your son. Link to post Share on other sites
pelicanpreacher Posted November 11, 2008 Share Posted November 11, 2008 I'd be honest with her and tell her that before you jump up and pack your bags or pack her bags (yes, put that 2nd option on the table) you're going to first seek legal council. After that, explain to her that you agree with her and can see her point about establishing a stronger relationship with your son and you share her concerns and really applaud her commitment on this issue. You need to also state that you believe that trying to make an abrupt change in living arrangements at his tender age will create insecurity, fear, and confusion in his world that you would like to avoid at all costs if possible. Tell her that you love her and that you are her biggest cheerleader and want nothing but the best for her. Also tell her that you've been reflecting upon yourself and feel that maybe you have been too controlling in this relationship and that you'd like to at least try to back down and take the back seat so that she can run things and get more confidence in herself. Strike a bargain by proposing that if after, say, six months she still feels that the relationship isn't working then you will step aside and do as she asks regarding a separation or divorce without argument! This should help you to buy enough time to begin reinvesting in your marriage so that you can respark the romantic connection that may have been lost when you plunged headlong into dominating the marriage and relationship! Link to post Share on other sites
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