Change or stay - happiness - again!

[Abby]

Yes I understand what you are both saying here. I have more or less come up with the same basis as to what's wrong and what I need to do.

 

It was very relieving to get some perspective on it though. I have been thinking through the issues during the week while we have been together, it seems really difficult to approach the matter and think that this would all be over. Let alone make a final decision that I have to leave. I need to be able to talk to him about it, in a caring and firm way, but have no idea how to. As soon as I even approach difficult issues, he gets defensive. As I said, I have in the past, tried to break up a few times and gave up, and he was hurt by this and feels quite insecure now.

 

I wonder if there would be anyway to change the way I feel, and what would be the best way to discover that, and make him be part of the process in a non-threatening way. Or, if I have to end it soon, what type of steps or approach should be taken to make it as easy as possible?

 

I am just worried not about "what other people think", as I will do what I want anyway, but about how to make people understand my decision. There are two close people who have guessed I am not entirely happy, but I will not be able to face "our" friends, mostly his, and will end up losing most of my social group, some very close people. Also, my family love him as he has always been 100% supportive and reliable and I get on very well with his family and would miss them greatly.

 

More than anything, I would miss his friendship and I don't know how we'd go when it got to the point of living separately, but wanting to know what's going on with each other. I really enjoy just having a drink of wine together and talking about the world etc, and would really miss the little things like this. Also, our animals would need to be separated and he loves them so much, I don't know how we could arrange this.

 

I don't know if it's best to stay friends and let him make the decision whether he could do this, as I know I would like to, but it would be hard as he will consider me not a friend, but may realise in time that it is possible to be one.

 

What Nicky said made me realise that I should do something. I have already justified the idea of cheating for satisfaction, but I would not want to hurt him as a friend and it would be much better to break as we are than when there is guilt attached to it and dishonesty. I could honestly feel better about a clean break.

 

Very confused about it all. If he wants to try and work things out, not sure how to handle it. I don't want to make up my mind 100% until I have discussed it with him. What's more, my aunt and uncle are breaking up as she wants space and we have been talking about it and he says he cannot understand this and that it is just a cop out so he will be there when it suits her, not him. Which may be the case. But, in our case, I don;t want to ask for space as it will anger him, but don't know what to do if he wants to work on it.

 

I would appreciate your thoughts on this.

 

Thanks.

 

Posted by Nicky on Friday, 31 March 2000, at 5:07 a.m., in response to Re: Change or stay? Where is the happiness?, posted by Tony on Friday, 31 March 2000, at 1:14 a.m.

You really don't have a marriage here. Furthermore, the man you are living with knows this but selfishly insists that you stay and suffer through the only life you will live on planet earth. There is little good stuff you are getting from this relationship. You didn't want to be a part of it in the first place. You had not yet learned to listen to and trust that faint voice within that always guides us. You cannot change him and you will never wake up and suddenly desire him passionately. (Miracles do happen but this is not likely). You describe other areas of communcations and homelife that sound pretty poor too. What's going on here? H E L L O !!! There are many people who are in situations like this and they are unhappy to varying degrees. It seems that sex is very important to you and you want to share that experience with someone who turns you on and with whom you are compatible. Sex is a very important component of being human...and of being married. Over a period of years you will acquire a deep anger at yourself and at the man you live with for hanging in there. Normally, I would recommend one final try at getting this together...but I'm afraid it just won't work. You are a young woman with many years ahead of you. You have not even arrived at your sexual peak. You need to go off alone for a few days and really give this some thought. The question to ponder is do you want to live this kind of life with this man for eternity? I don't think you are where you want to be for the rest of your life. If you make a decision to leave, you will have to do it quickly and skillfully. I don't think you will take long to heal from this ordeal. Normally, I really hate to advise people who think they are married to split...but in your case it's a no brainer...and YOU KNOW IT!!! You aren't getting anything out of this relationship, you never did, you didn't want to get married in the first place. Since marriage is a contract and you did not have a desire to enter into it, there was no meeting of the minds and no valid contract exists...in my opinion. Go get some romance, lady!!!

I rarely advise people in marriages to split, without trying some counselling or reconciliation. But in your case, I'll make an exception.

 

You married a friend and not a lover. The sexual feelings have never been there, and it's extremely unlikely that this will change. Sex is not the be all and end all, but it is an integral part of communication. It is a way of expressing our affection and emotions. It is intimacy.

 

You don't appear to have experienced the depth of emotions in lovemaking, that usually occurs between two people who love each other deeply. It's not just about sex that has you swinging from the chandeliers, but "love-making".

 

I don't want to sound harsh, but I think you are living a lie, and it's unfair on both of you. Even if he never wanted you to leave and would have been hurt, that's no reason to stay, and you're abdicating responsibilty by suggesting he persuaded you into it somehow. You did have a choice. And I think you have consistently not been honest with yourself or him. Sometimes we can't see the wood for the trees, and I think this was the case for you. But now you do know what's going on, and it's time to decide.

 

There's never a good time to finish with anybody, but whilst you're both stuck in this relationship, which cannot be truly healthy for either of you, you are preventing each other from living your lives honestly, and finding people who can make you much happier.

 

If you don't do something soon, it sounds like you'll end up being unfaithful. I am a firm believer that the truth always comes out in the end. If he is such a good friend, would you want to inflict this immense pain on him? Don't you think you should end things respectfully, rather than end up cheating on him? I know what I'd choose. He sounds like he is a very dear friend. Treat him as one.

 

All the best.

[Nicky]

Yes I understand what you are both saying here. I have more or less come up with the same basis as to what's wrong and what I need to do.

 

It was very relieving to get some perspective on it though. I have been thinking through the issues during the week while we have been together, it seems really difficult to approach the matter and think that this would all be over. Let alone make a final decision that I have to leave. I need to be able to talk to him about it, in a caring and firm way, but have no idea how to. As soon as I even approach difficult issues, he gets defensive. As I said, I have in the past, tried to break up a few times and gave up, and he was hurt by this and feels quite insecure now.

 

I wonder if there would be anyway to change the way I feel, and what would be the best way to discover that, and make him be part of the process in a non-threatening way. Or, if I have to end it soon, what type of steps or approach should be taken to make it as easy as possible?

 

I am just worried not about "what other people think", as I will do what I want anyway, but about how to make people understand my decision. There are two close people who have guessed I am not entirely happy, but I will not be able to face "our" friends, mostly his, and will end up losing most of my social group, some very close people. Also, my family love him as he has always been 100% supportive and reliable and I get on very well with his family and would miss them greatly. More than anything, I would miss his friendship and I don't know how we'd go when it got to the point of living separately, but wanting to know what's going on with each other. I really enjoy just having a drink of wine together and talking about the world etc, and would really miss the little things like this. Also, our animals would need to be separated and he loves them so much, I don't know how we could arrange this. I don't know if it's best to stay friends and let him make the decision whether he could do this, as I know I would like to, but it would be hard as he will consider me not a friend, but may realise in time that it is possible to be one. What Nicky said made me realise that I should do something. I have already justified the idea of cheating for satisfaction, but I would not want to hurt him as a friend and it would be much better to break as we are than when there is guilt attached to it and dishonesty. I could honestly feel better about a clean break. Very confused about it all. If he wants to try and work things out, not sure how to handle it. I don't want to make up my mind 100% until I have discussed it with him. What's more, my aunt and uncle are breaking up as she wants space and we have been talking about it and he says he cannot understand this and that it is just a cop out so he will be there when it suits her, not him. Which may be the case. But, in our case, I don;t want to ask for space as it will anger him, but don't know what to do if he wants to work on it. I would appreciate your thoughts on this.

 

Thanks. Posted by Nicky on Friday, 31 March 2000, at 5:07 a.m., in response to Re: Change or stay? Where is the happiness?, posted by Tony on Friday, 31 March 2000, at 1:14 a.m. I rarely advise people in marriages to split, without trying some counselling or reconciliation. But in your case, I'll make an exception. You married a friend and not a lover. The sexual feelings have never been there, and it's extremely unlikely that this will change. Sex is not the be all and end all, but it is an integral part of communication. It is a way of expressing our affection and emotions. It is intimacy. You don't appear to have experienced the depth of emotions in lovemaking, that usually occurs between two people who love each other deeply. It's not just about sex that has you swinging from the chandeliers, but "love-making".

 

I don't want to sound harsh, but I think you are living a lie, and it's unfair on both of you. Even if he never wanted you to leave and would have been hurt, that's no reason to stay, and you're abdicating responsibilty by suggesting he persuaded you into it somehow. You did have a choice. And I think you have consistently not been honest with yourself or him. Sometimes we can't see the wood for the trees, and I think this was the case for you. But now you do know what's going on, and it's time to decide. There's never a good time to finish with anybody, but whilst you're both stuck in this relationship, which cannot be truly healthy for either of you, you are preventing each other from living your lives honestly, and finding people who can make you much happier. If you don't do something soon, it sounds like you'll end up being unfaithful. I am a firm believer that the truth always comes out in the end. If he is such a good friend, would you want to inflict this immense pain on him? Don't you think you should end things respectfully, rather than end up cheating on him? I know what I'd choose. He sounds like he is a very dear friend. Treat him as one. All the best.

Hi Abby,

 

Good to hear from you again. A few issues above, which I have thoughts on. I don't know if they'll be of any help, but here goes!

 

A. raising the subject and his defensiveness. I don't know if you do this already, but in such discussions "own" your feelings. e.g."I feel very upset, because our lovelife isn't working out" instead of "you're crap in bed"! He will simply not hear you if this sounds like a personal attack. And besides it takes two, this isn't because he's crap in bed, but you just don't feel for him as you should. For both your sakes, you are going to have to be honest with him to get the message across. This will hurt him undoubtedly, but you're not going to move on with your lives unless you deal with this.

 

I think in your shoes, I would start by telling him how much I did love and care for him (which you truly seem to), but that it is not the love we have for a lover, more that of a brother. You could tell him how much and what you have valued, tell him how hard this is for you. Tell him you'll miss him. You don't have to carve up the house immediately. Leaving immediately would be brutal for both of you.There's no point on making it any harder on yourselves.

 

B: You talk of changing. The sexual drive is one of the most fundamental biological needs. Unless you happen to be "Miss I lack libido", I tend to think it's impractical to think you could change this or begin to fancy him. I'm sure you could live quite happily with him for many years, he's a friend. But I just feel, that one day it'll come to a halt. You'll meet Mr Right, and unable to resist, start an affair. It'll go one for several months, you'll fall in love with him. Then one day your husband will find out the truth. If this sounds like a probable scenario to you, then out of respect for your husband, end things now. He'll be hurt, but not nearly as much as by your infidelity.

 

C: I really sympathise. It's so horrible, when our worlds are ripped up. In one fell swoop, we loose contact with a whole array of friends and family when we split. Even parting from pets, can be really upsetting. But will it be easier now, or in ten years time. He's older than you isn't he? And it's so difficult, you get on well with him in many ways. It sounds like a good relationship,......except he's your friend and not your partner.

 

D: No final decisions have to be made immediately. Give it time. Reach the decisions jointly if possible, then it's easier to accept, if you've both reached the same conclusion- begrudgingly or otherwise. Try counselling, if that helps either of you come to terms with things. I think you need to progress and move things along, which right now won't happen when there's no discussion. He can't solve his problems, if he doesn't know of their existance.

 

Anyway, I hope it works out for you, all the best- let us know how it goes. Nicky

[Abby]

Thank you very much for replying. Your comments are fantastic. I will be able to approach this with alot more care and attention than without your advice.

 

SOmehow, I think it will be possible to work through it. The main point is it isn't his fault and I just didn't know how to approach it so that I could communicate it best. I will be able to now, at least give it my best shot, and see how it goes.

 

I will keep in touch.

 

Thanks again for your advice.

Hi Abby, Good to hear from you again. A few issues above, which I have thoughts on. I don't know if they'll be of any help, but here goes! A. raising the subject and his defensiveness. I don't know if you do this already, but in such discussions "own" your feelings. e.g."I feel very upset, because our lovelife isn't working out" instead of "you're crap in bed"! He will simply not hear you if this sounds like a personal attack. And besides it takes two, this isn't because he's crap in bed, but you just don't feel for him as you should. For both your sakes, you are going to have to be honest with him to get the message across. This will hurt him undoubtedly, but you're not going to move on with your lives unless you deal with this. I think in your shoes, I would start by telling him how much I did love and care for him (which you truly seem to), but that it is not the love we have for a lover, more that of a brother. You could tell him how much and what you have valued, tell him how hard this is for you. Tell him you'll miss him. You don't have to carve up the house immediately. Leaving immediately would be brutal for both of you.There's no point on making it any harder on yourselves. B: You talk of changing. The sexual drive is one of the most fundamental biological needs. Unless you happen to be "Miss I lack libido", I tend to think it's impractical to think you could change this or begin to fancy him. I'm sure you could live quite happily with him for many years, he's a friend. But I just feel, that one day it'll come to a halt. You'll meet Mr Right, and unable to resist, start an affair. It'll go one for several months, you'll fall in love with him. Then one day your husband will find out the truth. If this sounds like a probable scenario to you, then out of respect for your husband, end things now. He'll be hurt, but not nearly as much as by your infidelity. C: I really sympathise. It's so horrible, when our worlds are ripped up. In one fell swoop, we loose contact with a whole array of friends and family when we split. Even parting from pets, can be really upsetting. But will it be easier now, or in ten years time. He's older than you isn't he? And it's so difficult, you get on well with him in many ways. It sounds like a good relationship,......except he's your friend and not your partner. D: No final decisions have to be made immediately. Give it time. Reach the decisions jointly if possible, then it's easier to accept, if you've both reached the same conclusion- begrudgingly or otherwise. Try counselling, if that helps either of you come to terms with things. I think you need to progress and move things along, which right now won't happen when there's no discussion. He can't solve his problems, if he doesn't know of their existance.

 

Anyway, I hope it works out for you, all the best- let us know how it goes. Nicky