how much should a spouse know?

[just me again]

my fiance and i have been together for five years now.

he is a mortgage loan officer and does some real estate as well but mainly mortgage loans.

 

business has slowed down an awful lot and he had considered after fifteen years of working at a company as a loan officer.

 

i had no idea he was even thinking about this so when he mentioned that he had just "talked" to a guy about it i felt hurt, scared and put out that he had not consulted me first.

 

he said he didn't feel he needed to tell me anything because for now he was only looking in to it as an option if necessary.

 

when he mentioned it, my thoughts were of women all around his dresses, sitting on his desk, flirting with him, having lunchen's lunches together etc. obviously of jealousy my thoughts were born.

 

then i analyzed it to death and also realized it was a because i had no control of what he had done, even if just a phone call.

 

the lack of control made me feel out of control, does that make sense?

so then nothing more was said about it.

 

then last week i find out he has bought all these tickets to hockey, football, and basketball games for this year.

 

he knows i don't care for these events to the extent that he bought tickets (10 games), but yet when ahead anyway with his brother and bought these tickets from a friend of their's who sold them.

 

so once again i feel put out that i was not included in this decision. yes i am sure for the same reason because i did not have "control" over the situation, so i feel even more put out.

 

so i am learning things about myself through all this but i am also feeling that he should of consulted with me first about these things before making decisions about them, or am i way off base?

 

yesterday he had mentioned that he needed to transfer money from savings to checking because it was getting low.

 

i had no realzied the full impact of this lack of business till he said that. so i thought again about it and realized that my fears should not keep him from making aliving.

 

so this morning i asked him if he had heard back from that guy yet, and he said he would have to tell him that his wife does not want him to work there.

 

i knew he would not really tell the guy that but his point was still made quite clear that i did not want him to work there.

 

still i felt very hurt about his comment, and i felt hurt about all these changes he is making without consulting me on anything!

 

we have lived together for five years and the last two or so as common law married as he refers to me as his wife and i to him as my husband.

 

someone please set me straight on this, am i out of my league for feeling that i should be a part of decisions or should i just be the passive little woman who goes along with what ever her man says and does?

[HokeyReligions]

These are some things that you need to discuss with him. If you insist on knowing everything that he says or does and every decision large or small, he may feel smothered.

 

On the other hand, if you two have joint finances (checking, savings, etc.) then anything that may have an impact on your finances should be discussed before decisions are made. If he's not making as much money as he used to, then buying all those sports tickets might not have been the best decision in the world. He may have known that though and that's why he didn't tell you. Sometimes, when money is tight it can make a person feel bad about themselves and spending a little on a luxury item can be a big boost to self esteem and self confidence.

 

As far as him switching jobs - that is something that you need to talk about together and look seriously at the positives and negatives and why he feels this change is necessary. Ultimately, the decision is his and if he agrees to not take a job because of your jealously he may very well end up resenting you for it and blaming you for problems in the future.

 

Consider the job seriously and if he has given you reason to be jealous - if he has cheated on you, and this new position is going to put him in a situation where there is a lot of temptation then he needs to consider that too. It's up to the two of you to weigh the pros and cons of all sides of a new job. If you are just a jealouos person by nature and have no real reason to not trust him, then you need to put that jealously aside. Maybe some counseling will help you deal with these issues.

 

Men tend to want to protect us and solve the problems. It's the nature of the beast and sometimes when they think they are doing something great it has the opposite effect. He might have been trying to save you from worrying about money because he wants to protect you and care for you, not realizing that you would prefer to be on an equal basis and be well informed and help in the decision making.

[moimeme]

Men tend to want to protect us and solve the problems. It's the nature of the beast and sometimes when they think they are doing something great it has the opposite effect. He might have been trying to save you from worrying about money because he wants to protect you and care for you, not realizing that you would prefer to be on an equal basis and be well informed and help in the decision making.

 

Oh, puleeeezzzeee. The days of men ordering for women in restaurants are long gone. Old-fashioned men want to be Mr. Boss Of The House. Liberated men believe in sharing. Sometimes the one will never become the other.

 

someone please set me straight on this, am i out of my league for feeling that i should be a part of decisions

 

There are questions to answer before that. Most important to how this question is answered is this: you say you've been together five years - has he always done this or is this new?

[JUST ME AGAIN]

i thought about that question if this was new or not, and though it is not really new the things that are coming up are new.

 

the thing with buying tickets to sporting events, enough to last the whole season, the situation with him maybe having to take on another type of job is also new.

 

but him not telling me much about anything he does, no that is not new, and i had not thought about that.

 

i have asked him repeatedly over the years to please include me on things. at one time i just gave up.

 

things like a wheel chair that his grandma wants and him and his dad discussed it and decided if they got her one she would not get any exericses at all and shortly there after end up in a nursing home.

 

she is in an assisted care place as it is now and uses the community wheel chair when she can and you can always tell because she has a harder time walking each week that we see her.

 

you know if you don't use it you lose it so they dont want to get it for her. my point in this is that when the discussion was going on over the phone, i knew nothing about it either.

 

so i asked him about it and he told me what was going on. so later they were talking about it again, some new info from the assisted living place, their input was given and i anxiously awaited for him to get off the phone to hear the newest details of this.

 

instead when he hung up he just continued to watch t.v. again. i felt so mad! i said to him, why do you do that? when you know i'm waiting to hear what is going on, why do you make it so i have to ask!!??

 

he played dumb and innocent with me. so that is what i go through, when things go on in the family, i am the last to know but he says he is the last to know in his family too but i don't believe that for a minute because they are always asking his advice about things.

 

okay so this got a little long, but yes he has been doing this for five years then. so now what?

 

LOL.

[moimeme]

So that means it's a long-term habit, not a sign of something having changed in the relationship. So that means you have to decide if this is a deal-breaker or not. If you are sick to death of this and don't want to live with it anymore, you'll have to tell him that in so many words. Tell him you want to have a discussion about your communication and then lay it on the line. Then ask if he'll negotiate different behaviour. He might or might not. You can pursue it through counselling. You can give him some chances to change and renegotiate it a few times. You can decide he's the 'boss' and settle for that sort of life, if you want. Or you can leave if he doesn't wise up.

 

Personally, I would not live with someone who could not be a 'team' with me; mutual decisions, etc. My last guy was like that and that was one of my non-negotiables. If some guy wants an unquestioning slave, let him go find one but I'm not it. To me, marriage is a partnership, not a boss-and-underling situation.

[just me again]

you put it all so very elegantly and i think that it is time i tell him AGAIN that he needs to include me in these or at least some decisions or at the least i would like to know what the heck is going on in his world and be a part of it and apart of it.

 

thanks for the help!

[moimeme]

Glad I could be of assistance

[HokeyReligions]

quote:Men tend to want to protect us and solve the problems. It's the nature of the beast and sometimes when they think they are doing something great it has the opposite effect. He might have been trying to save you from worrying about money because he wants to protect you and care for you, not realizing that you would prefer to be on an equal basis and be well informed and help in the decision making.

 

 

Oh, puleeeezzzeee. The days of men ordering for women in restaurants are long gone. Old-fashioned men want to be Mr. Boss Of The House. Liberated men believe in sharing. Sometimes the one will never become the other.

 

I don't know where you get this, but in my experience - and I can certainly find some text books and psych-authored papers and books to back me up - men overall want to be problem solvers, and I don't consider that "old-fashioned" at all. And it has nothing to do with a belief in "sharing" at all. That's too broad of a generalization anyway. I appreciate being sheltered from things that my husband knows will upset me, or that I don't need to expend energy on. He also knows that we make most decisions together - especially big decisions, and we know how to determine what to share with each other because we know what impact the sharing of information will likely have on each other & that takes time and communication. The "liberated men" thing is a whole different issue and none of it in any way, shape, or form translates into being Mr. Boss of anything! And my husband does order for me in restaurants. He is not being bossy at all, he is being a gentlemen. he knows what I like.

 

There is nothing wrong with a man wanting to protect or shelter the woman he loves (or vice versa) and that doesn't mean its a bossy thing, or arrogance, or ignorance or unliberated or whatever. It's natural to want to keep those you love safe and happy. The problem is that sometimes people don't recognize it for what it is, and they interpret it as something negative. Or the person who is doing the sheltering doesn't realize how it is perceived, or maybe even why they do it themselves. Men are generally problem-solvers and women are emoters. I'm not saying there is no cross-over, but that is just the way it is.

 

Understanding the difference and being able to talk about WHY he doesn't tell her things, or ask for her input can help in disscusing how and why things need to change. And explore why she needs to know more details. Telling him that, hey I'm not mad at you personally because I understand this is how you have always been and it's natural for you - there is nothing wrong with that, but because I'm here now and I need to know for my own peace of mind, can we just add a little bit to how you communicate with me? That's less personal then saying that he hurts her feelings all the time and she feels worth less than she should because of his behavior. That's personal and will put him on the defensive.

[moimeme]

men overall want to be problem solvers

 

I love to solve problems. Doesn't mean one takes over the chore of problem-solving to the exclusion of others. Her guy wants to problem-solve for her as opposed to with her. Big difference in my books.

 

I appreciate being sheltered from things that my husband knows will upset me, or that I don't need to expend energy on.

 

Yes, but Hokey, that is the way you like it and want it. You have agreed to do this this way mutually. 'Just me's BF is doing it without her consent. He has chosen to lead and has not negotiated that with her. Do you not see the difference?

 

And my husband does order for me in restaurants. He is not being bossy at all, he is being a gentlemen. he knows what I like.

 

Yes, but again, you are happy with that. My last option for 'just me' was to learn to live with it. Maybe she, like you, will decide she likes life that way. I figure if she did, she wouldn't have posted.

 

There is nothing wrong with a man wanting to protect or shelter the woman he loves (or vice versa) and that doesn't mean its a bossy thing, or arrogance, or ignorance or unliberated or whatever. It's natural to want to keep those you love safe and happy.

 

The difference is between the intent and the execution. You want your husband to be safe and happy. So you sell his sports car and buy an SUV without consulting him. You toss out his sports stuff because you don't want him injured but you don't ask him first. Do you get the difference?

 

Understanding the difference and being able to talk about WHY he doesn't tell her things, or ask for her input can help in disscusing how and why things need to change. And explore why she needs to know more details. Telling him that, hey I'm not mad at you personally because I understand this is how you have always been and it's natural for you - there is nothing wrong with that, but because I'm here now and I need to know for my own peace of mind, can we just add a little bit to how you communicate with me? That's less personal then saying that he hurts her feelings all the time and she feels worth less than she should because of his behavior. That's personal and will put him on the defensive.

 

Well, actually, if you search your "text books and psych-authored papers and books" , you'll find that they recommend 'I' statements such as 'I feel bad when X happens' rather than statements like 'I understand this is how you are', which can make people VERY defensive, particularly if they didn't think of themselves that way.

[HokeyReligions]

you took some of my statements out of context Moimeme.

 

The texts/papers were those that my husband and I used in our counseling and in the classes I took back in college and those dealt with the proclivity of the sexes - men more problem-solving over emoting (but certainly both) and women emoting over problem-solving (but certainly both)

 

The last statement about understanding these proclivities and not just saying "I" is meant in a non-condemning way, but as a way of demonstrating that no blame is being placed. I guess I should have expressed that more clearly.

 

I love to solve problems. Doesn't mean one takes over the chore of problem-solving to the exclusion of others. Her guy wants to problem-solve for her as opposed to with her. Big difference in my books.

 

Sure there is a difference and there is room for both in a relationship - if both parties agree. In my previous post I stated:

I appreciate being sheltered from things that my husband knows will upset me, or that I don't need to expend energy on. He also knows that we make most decisions together - especially big decisions, and we know how to determine what to share with each other because we know what impact the sharing of information will likely have on each other & that takes time and communication.

This covers both - solve them "for" me (fish the dead bird out of the pool and don't tell me about it) and deciding together to spend $300 on a pool cover so birds won't drown.

 

The difference is between the intent and the execution. You want your husband to be safe and happy. So you sell his sports car and buy an SUV without consulting him. You toss out his sports stuff because you don't want him injured but you don't ask him first. Do you get the difference?

Yes I "get" the difference and I illustrated above and in my earlier post.

 

It's all a matter of communicating clearly (not always easy on this board) and then if her BF does not want to make those changes, or tries and then resents her for them, they may need to get some serious counseling if they are both committed to keeping the relationship together, or consider moving on.

[moimeme]

It's all a matter of communicating clearly (not always easy on this board) and then if her BF does not want to make those changes, or tries and then resents her for them, they may need to get some serious counseling if they are both committed to keeping the relationship together, or consider moving on.

 

Exactly.

[just me again]

you all are going too fast for me to keep up here, lol.

okay the point is that i had WANTED to know about these things in advance because i had wanted to have some control over them because i did not want him to do these things.

 

i believe i said that in my first and original post. i had figured it out way after the fact that that was why it had bothered me so much, is that i had no control over any of it!

 

yes i would love to know what is going on for thee right reason, because i feel that my input should be validated as well.

 

my reasons for wanting to know were to "control" the situation. i hope i said that anyway, if not i apologize for causing the uproar.

 

yes men are from mars, and that is why they do what they do, i really believe that about alot of men.

 

they believe in taking charge and handling things without consulting their spouse.

for some yes that is okay, for hokey that is fine because she does not mind it that way at all.

 

some times i would not mind it that way either. perhaps i am being too petty about the whole thing.

 

i seen the Deacon today at the church for the annulment i have to try to get before we can even get married, and this very subject had come up.

 

he told me that his wife handles all the financial aspects of their lives, and has done so for 48 years of their lives.

 

while he handles the maintaneance part of their lives together and both are equally happy with their roles.

 

again though that is because they both agree and are okay with that way of doing things.

 

however, i would only like to know if i am entitled to knowing some things and if so how much!?

 

i feel that i should be included in some things, maybe not all things. he handles for the most part all the financial part of the household and i am okay with that because i don't feel comfortable doing bills.

 

i do however pay my own set of bills and his mother actually handles his check book because she works at his same place of employment and does some work for him, and his financial ends as well.

 

so i guess having said that acutally his mother does handle most of the financial aspects of things, which is fine with me too.

 

i am just going to tell him once again, no i will ask him, how much of business and his life at work does he think i need to know about?

 

he rarely comes home and says much of anything about work. he does not really keep it in, but sometimes he can sit here all evening and be obviously distracted about work, and not say a word to me about it.

 

that makes me feel useless, like if he can't come to me to talk then what am i hear for? cleaning, cooking and laundry?

 

so for now that is what i am going to do and see what his response.

thankfully this is NOT an everyday occurance, but if it was it would be one fight after another or i would have to submis.

[moimeme]

however, i would only like to know if i am entitled to knowing some things and if so how much!?

 

You are entitled to know everything. You need to negotiate how much of that you are willing to give up and why. I would have hoped that would have been clear from our earlier posts. It's as if you think he has some right to some of his behaviour. He doesn't unless you originally agreed to carry on this way.

 

Some religions require the wives to be deferential. I think they even think that the wife may not be 'entitled' to knowing about what goes on - so it depends on your religious and cultural context. But if you are just asking about generally and morally - you start from the position of both of you are entitled to know everything and then you negotiate from there.

 

It's all well and fine for these relationships where one person handles all the finances - until that person gets sick or dies and the other person is completely in the dark about the finances. Of all the family information to share, I think that is very important. Maybe you don't do the bills, but it's worth it to at least review the finances every now and then so you know what's going on.

 

i will ask him, how much of business and his life at work does he think i need to know about?

 

This is deferring to him. You have to decide if that is the way you want to live. Just in doing that you are letting him decide for you. Women who hand over too much of their independence in relationships are completely lost should the relationships break up. It just seems to me not the best way to go about things. My stepmom handled all the finances; my dad knew nothing about them. We almost lost quite a few bucks from the estate because there were funds he didn't know about. I just happened to find a couple pieces of paper - sheer luck. People get sick and they die - sometimes sooner than you think - and people need to be prepared.

[just me again]

you certainly know how to put a different spin on things.

i have been reading this book called "the power of now"

by eckhart tolle.

 

such a fascinating concept he has. i have been trying to do his

"living in the now" and it is quite remarkable if you are into living

in the conscious present moment and not in the past and not in the future.

 

i have been trying to apply his methods to all of this, and i'm starting to think

how petty it all is to fuss about.

 

strange isn't it? but fascinating. almost liberating!

if you have not heard of him, i think you might enjoy this subject.

you seem open enough already in your consciousness that you could

grasp what he is talking about and enjoy it very much.

 

thank you for so much insight, i love insight!

[moimeme]

I know Tolle. I haven't read much of his stuff but I get a tad wary of people who seem to be saying they have 'the' key to life. Certainly some of his ideas are pretty interesting, though.

[just me again]

while i do not believe either not for a minute that he nor anyone else has "the key to life" or the problems of the universe, except God, i do find his readings and ideas so fastinating.

 

especially about feeling emotion in your body and just watchingi t, rather then thinking from the head and acting on thoughts.

 

i've been trying to learn to do that. for example when my fiance may something i feel is offensive, i try to stop immediatly the thoughts running rampant in my head and watch the pain in my body instead.

 

i've learned that i can watch it take over me, and feel insults from the "little me" of being young, the little girl that i was and was always verbally abused by my siblings.

 

so i can place the pain to my child hood, yet the thinking part of it tells me still he can be so inconsiderate and at times a big jerk!

 

but i can seperate the pains of his actions and my responses and decide if i want to approach him on his behaviour or letit go.

 

if i approach him he is living from his defensive ego and does just that, gets defensive, then i get no where.

 

so i have learned to drop alot of things with people, am still learning and trying to figure out if i am really watching them or just possibly ignoring them.

 

life is too short to be so small.