a big, fat huge WHY do humans go for pain and not for happiness?

[jalexy]

I have read so so so many bad things on here about women being mistreated (being called bi*ches, walked on, cheated on) and also men being walked all over as well. i want to know why do us humans hold on to something that is painful? are we scared that we wont find better? do we hold on to the good things that we had and not the bad things?

when someone cheats, lies, calls you undeserved names, why cant we respect ourselves and get the strength to walk out of that person's lives forever? do we have to have this done to us lots of times (like myself) to finally say NO i wont take this anymore and walk out at the first sign of crap?

What are yall's thoughts? this deeply bothers me.

[sunnie23]

simple answer-heart strings.

 

we develop connections with people when things are good, and become so attached that it's hard to let go when it's rough.

 

i'm sure self esteem plays a huge role as well.

[Tony T]

I used to take a lot of crap from a lot of people. I suppose it was a combination of unhealthy self esteem, fear, low self respect, hope that things would get better, and just plain, pure, unadulterated stupidity. At a point I took a workshop in Personal Empowerment. It was a weekend deal and cost something like $125. It changed my life forever. I learned not to give other people power over me and to take the power back that I had given away. In just one weekend, I learned I could do without any person who treated me poorly. I learned I need not give any other human being the power to make me feel angry, depressed, guilty, hurt or whatever. Many people were shook. Many didn't understand. Many were baffled. One by one, as called for, I chopped people from my life and felt very good about it. The feeling of finally not being a prisoner to my own bullshxt was awesome. There were no more people left on the planet who could manipulate me or my feelings. Now, I am able to clip anybody from my life who thinks they can get by with abusing me in any way. At first, I did feel some loss...then I had to wonder why I would feel a sense of loss over people who were mean to me. I took back their power to make me feel bad about losing them too. As far as I was concerned, they just didn't even exist any longer.

 

The truly bizarre part of this whole story is after that weekend, after I started exercising my new found power, those types of people I had once allowed to be inconsiderate and rude to me disappeared. Not one, not even one single person has come into my life since then to try to wreck it. Everybody around me is great. The quality of my entire world changed for the better. It's as if I had died and went to heaven. The people who come into my life now are first class and truly wonderful. People cannot abuse you unless you allow it and, to me, that is a truly insane thing to permit to happen to oneself.

 

There is no good reason that any person anywhere should give power to another human being to be mean to them. There is no greater feeling than to be in total control of one's life. I wouldn't care if I didn't have a penny to my name, I would move away...far away...from somebody who was not a positive element in my life...and I would walk barefoot...over nails if necessary....and I would feel great.

 

References available upon request.

[jalexy]

i like to think ive quit taking people's BS , but i would love more information on this workshop you speak of. sounds freakin' awesome!

[EnigmaXOXO]

I suppose it was a combination of unhealthy self esteem, fear, low self respect, hope that things would get better, and just plain, pure, unadulterated stupidity.

 

Nope. It was neither of the above mentioned. Rather an undying hope in humanity---almost at the expense of your own!

 

People like yourself, and many others here, never really stop giving. They just find healthier ways to do it.

 

And as far as all those people you ran from...its called "tough love!"

[Tony T]

"Rather an undying hope in humanity---almost at the expense of your own!"

 

You may be right here. I finally gave up hope in humanity and have put all my faith into my MP3 player and my cat on good days.

 

I think a lot of people hang out with people who are abusive to them for fear they won't find people who won't be, as nuts as it sounds.

[yes]

"I think a lot of people hang out with people who are abusive to them for fear they won't find people who won't be, as nuts as it sounds."

 

I think that's precisely true. People are afraid of having high standards, because it means rejecting a LOT of candidates, being alone for a long time, and always having faith that the standard WILL be met some day.

 

-yes

[moimeme]

hope that things would get better

 

'The triumph of hope over experience'.

 

Actually, I think that when the relationship is new and all is wonderful, the dream begins that this will be The One, that this will be THE love, that the future will be bright. And in the beginning it looks like all that's possible. I think when things go wrong we don't want to think we made foolish mistakes and we hope fervently that the dream will come true after all - after this or that bad patch. Sometimes that even happens.

 

I don't have this down perfectly - someone else (Paul maybe) might have a reference to this study handy: they taught rats to do a certain thing which would get them a reward. Afterwards, they caused the rats pain before they gave the reward. I think they eventually even took away the reward - but the rats still endured the pain in hope (as much as a rat can hope) of getting the treats again. I think people do the same - once they've had something enjoyable, they will take a lot in hope they can have it again.

[Tony T]

Oh, rats!!! That study could very well explain why people stay in abusive relationships....relationships that were in the beginning quite different and fulfilling. Duh, I guess that's why you posted it! Rats!

[moimeme]

I know. Depressing isn't it? Not everybody stays in abusive relationships but enough people do that there has to be reasons. I know the theories about low self-esteem and all that but not every person with low self-esteem does that, either. I think it may be that some people are more susceptible to the 'rat effect' (which probably has a real name in psychology) than others just as some people are more prone to fall in love 'at first sight' than others.

[quankanne]

Tony, I enjoyed reading about the seminar you took, because it makes a lot of sense: why continue to empower people who hurt you? Especially when there are so many other good folks around you who care about you so much that they do what they can to help build up your healthy sense of self ...

 

it's easy to sh*tcan the acquaintences and so-called "friends" who treat you this way, but what do you do when it a close relative? when their behavior is so completely opposite of what you value most in people? Who continually hurt, threaten, abuse, take advantage of their family members for personal gain/benefit without a care to what it does to these people? And how do you explain – in a way that makes sense – to other members of the family that while you might love this person because he/she is family, you don't respect them, don't like them for how they treat others? I'm all for stopping bullsh*t and bad behavior in its tracks, but I'm at a loss at giving my perfectly valid reasons for why I don't tolerate such miserable behavior!

[moimeme]

Some people do 'divorce' family members for just such reasons. Just because a person's DNA is similar to yours does not mean that person is then a wonderful person. I never held truck with that 'blood is thicker than water' stuff. If 'blood' is treating you badly and it's not because they're in need of some sort of psychological intervention, then why give them leeway you wouldn't give strangers.

 

I agree that long-term abuse is a very good reason to shut people off; my concern is that people make the decision to dump someone or refuse to forgive them sometimes after a few relatively minor transgressions.

 

Yours is not one of these cases, but I do think that a lot of people take this 'empowerment' stuff and then use it to beat everybody over the head with, even those who really just made some mistakes and do deserve chances. I often see people on this board ready to dump someone after a minor transgression. Tony alluded to that when he spoke of people having really good relationships for 5 years and then something small happens and they're ready to junk it all.

[Tony T]

I am an extremely rational and sane person and I never drop people for minor transgressions, whether I've known them for a day or 30 years. I am quite competent to weigh every unique situation for what it is and what the transgression was relative to the relationship as a whole. However, I do have a point at which I cannot go back and when I reach that point, after careful and well reasoned deliberation, I will cut somebody out of my life and a half of a second and never look back.

 

As far as family members go, you have a choice of any person you interact with. If you have a relative who abuses you or lessens the quality of your life for any reason, there are thousands of ways of keeping them out of your life without making an official announcement. This stuff is not rocket science, it's just plain not having to do with people who annoy you or otherwise make your life unpleasant. Different people do it in different ways. I just like to announce it, myself, so the other person knows where they stand with me and that I want no further association. Some people who don't have enough balls to do that can do it in other ways. Each person is the architect of his own life, and I choose to take charge of my own. I went way too many years being miserable at the hands of other manipulative bastards. Now, I am totally in charge and it's great. I am happy and it works for me. But trust me, I have enough good sense to know when to fire my weapon and when to hold back. I do not take terminating relationships lightly....on the other hand, the ones I do terminate are actually relationshxts.

[moimeme]

However, I do have a point at which I cannot go back and when I reach that point, after careful and well reasoned deliberation, I will cut somebody out of my life and a half of a second and never look back.

 

It's all about being fair. You really do have to let people have some slack before you cut them off. You're saying you do - good on ya for it! It'd be nice if everybody did.

[quankanne]

thanks for the edification, Tony. What makes all of this hard is now this emotional vampire has sucked my parents into the fray, and my dad is actually buying the bullsh*t he's peddling -- as if he needs this right now! I've been mentally preparing a letter to send this person, letting him know that I refuse to let his lies go on any further, and it's time to set it into type because he's definitely crossed the line with his lies.

 

quank

[EnigmaXOXO]

Go get 'em Quank!

 

I'll stand....um....duck behind you and show support!!

[quankanne]

does that mean you'll stand off to one side yelling "you GO girl," shaking your finger at the jerk in question?

 

[EnigmaXOXO]

Depends on who's winning and who's throwing what.

[quankanne]

HAH! he's nuts if he thinks he can win this one, this time, with ME!!!! Bwahhhhaaahhaaahhhaaaaaaa ....

 

(I said, grinning evilly)

[moimeme]

That, coming from an 'odd-shaped' person (pentagonal? tridecahedronal?), ought to have him shaking in his boots!