44, married and a pickup artist

[NewKatalyst]

I'm a 44 year old guy, married for 18 years and with 2 kids. For almost 8 years, we've had quite a bit of difficulty getting along. Her temper had gotten worse and worse and her interest in sex with me went down the toilet. Like many men in this situation, I tried to talk to her, reason with her, be emotional with her, I tried being super nice, I tried being extra helpful. She made a comment about me not having any "flair". Now that I look back, I think she was trying to say I was boring. I probably was.

In spite of my age, I have no gut because I run and lift weights quite a bit. I'm 6'2" and have all my hair, even if some of it is truning a little gray. I think I look pretty good to women. But until 10 months ago, I never messed with another woman.

 

Then my company transferred us all to London. A month after we got settled there and the kids got to school, the company needed me in Zurich where I spend 4-5 days a week and come back to London on weekends.

 

I work with bunch of other guys who are from Germany, the UK, Austria, etc. and who also spend their weeks in Zurich and go back on weekends. Some are 28, some are 35, and I'm likely the oldest one there.

 

So we all tend to go out every Tuesday and Thursday night on the town and have a few beers and maybe some dinner. We all got to be good friends. Back in the states, I never did any of this. I never went to clubs or bars. I just came home after the usual commutes. In any case, I started to get back the feelings I had when I was younger. Back when I used to hit on women. The women here in Zurich are extremely receptive. I would regularly hit on them for fun and flirt shamelessly with them. 90% of the time, they wanted to see me again, or they invited me for a romp that night.

 

Over time, I got addicted to doing this. I started hitting on women at the market, on the tramways, and of course at every and any outing we went to. I had to turn off my cell ringer during the day because I was getting texts from these women all day long. Luckily I have a separate Swiss phone SIM card for here that I leave here and switch to my UK one when I go back.

 

Then I started making things a bit more challenging. I'd walk to a group of three or more women at a club and get all three to kiss me. I did my first threesome here. I've been with countless women here. I can't even give you a number at this point to tell you how many. I've been with girls as young as 19 and women of 48.

 

Last Thursday, I was with one other guy only, so we dropped in a pretty classy place we like to go to. The waiters are all in tuxedos, dim lights and cocktail tables with white table cloths abound. Within 30 minutes, I had taken the seat from one of the women sitting down anfd had her on my lap while 3 other women were clamoring for more attention. It's not that I'm devastatigly good looking or anything (I'm above average, but not George Clooney). I think I've just become a fun guy to these women. Women in a very uptight society.

 

I learned alot about women by doing that - but mostly I learned a huge deal about myself. My relationships with people have improved in all areas. And one bizarre side effect has been that my wife now finds me more interesting. I'm home less, so that helps - but mostly my demeanor has changed. I'm more confident. I know how to tease her better and keep things interesting when I talk to her. It's as thought I've discovered the inner workings of people's minds in a way that makes it possible for me to push the right buttons with her. Now she thinks, I have that undefinable flair she was talking about a few years ago.

 

What she doesn't know is how I got there. She also doesn't know how addicted I am to this lifestyle. She would be completely incredulous if she knew what I do on weeknights sometimes. I don't know if I have a question. I don't really. I do know that the **** will likely hit the fan at some point. I feel the need to keep my responsibilities to my family, but I can't imagine my life other than what I'm doing. I feel like I discovered another world. I also discovered late in life that there is just no point in being a nice guy really. I doesn't pay off in the end.

[JamesM]

Like a drug addiction, the crash will happen.

 

Enjoy it while you can, because I am guessing and predicting that in the near future, something will happen that will cause it all to fall apart.

 

Sounds like fun. Having been 18 years, I can see how you find it thrilling. Also being in my forties, it sounds like a way to recapture youth. And for some reason, as I think beyond the thrill, I see how the fleeting happiness will lead to emptiness and loneliness when the wife discovers the "new life" and leaves you, taking your children (who now disrespect their dad) with her. This discovery could occur through the unexpected phone call, the inevitable STD, or a slip of the tongue by you or someone.

 

Enjoy the thrill. Like all thrills, they soon become mundane, and life's realities return.

[Lizzie60]

Or maybe the sh*t will never hit the fan.. in many cases, the As are never known...

 

I always said that in some cases, As do help a relationship.. you just proved it...

 

and I agree with you that having women all over you is addictive.. I understand cause I'm somewhat in the same boat..

[Green]

Seriously it sounds like a fun time. Have you been readin pick up artist material or something? But the truth is you could really hurt your family if you don't keep this under control, and if you look only to outside stimuli for pleasure you will feel empty or always need more.

[jwi71]

Should be a fantastic crash and burn. Either discovery by your W or possibly STD. Like you said, its coming...

 

OP: An affair does not help your M. If you or anyone else thinks so...tell your W how you got "better". Go on...No? Then it doesn't help does it?

[2sunny]

ummmmm, troll? just wondering...

[couchmonkey]

Do you want a round of applause?

[lonelyandfrustrated]

Do you want a round of applause?

 

How about a round of penicillin? For the house!

[michelangelo]

while you're off nailing swiss tail your wife is home having bangers and nash all week long.

 

You are in for a fall. Keep up to date on your inoculations. STD is in yor future for sure.

 

BTW, one day your phone card switch will be forgotten. You will be caught.

[whichwayisup]

Wow, all this is going to come back and bite you hard one of these days, so BE prepared to come clean to your wife, that is, if you have the balls to tell her the truth. And, please, don't you dare blame her for your selfish choices. You could've put that energy into your wife making your marriage more exciting - Dated your wife, and fooled around like teens..But no, you decided to find yourself and live through a major midlife crisis ON the expense of your wife and 2 kids.

 

I understand cause I'm somewhat in the same boat..

 

But you're not married and don't have 2 kids in tow. Are you saying that if you were married and had 2 kids, you'd do what this guy is doing? Because there's a difference between being single and living a certain lifestyle and being married and doing it.

[pelicanpreacher]

Thing is bud, things like this take on a life of their own and once traction is achieved you have no control over anything ever again. One of these women are going to take you far too seriously and she will use her ingenuity to uncover all aspects of your life. Once done, she will move forcefully and purposefully into your life with the mission of making you hers and nothing will dissuade her motivation. Now the nice guy wanna be hard will have to face some hard decisions with the knowledge that after all is said and all is done, though all is said, nothing can be done for his world lies charred in ruin.

 

"For over a thousand years Roman conquerors returning from the wars enjoyed the honor of triumph, a tumultuous parade. In the procession came trumpeteers, musicians and strange animals from conquered territories, together with carts laden with treasure and captured armaments. The conquerors rode in a triumphal chariot, the dazed prisoners walking in chains before him. Sometimes his children robed in white stood with him in the chariot or rode the trace horses. A slave stood behind the conqueror holding a golden crown and whispering in his ear a warning: All glory is fleeting."

 

Gen. George C. Patton.

[NewKatalyst]

Thanks for your comments, folks. I know that I risk a "crash and burn" as you all seem to think. It's hard to explain this, but I feel like I've entered a new realm which fills a void that was created by my crappy marriage life.

 

I wasn't looking for praise, of course. Otherwise I would have posted this in dating or something. I'm not necessarily proud of it either. I just thought it would be a good idea to inteject a new concept for those people here who have, like me, been in an overall sexless and passionless marriage.

 

I've read well meaning suggestions here and on other advice forums that urge men in these situations to putmore effort at being nice. I simply found that being so nice was not only ineffective, I think it made me boring in her eyes. It actually lessened my chances of improving the passion. Through my infideliies, I learned a bit more about what motivates peope. I slept with several married women and many women in "commited" relationships (Tuesday is a traditional girls night out here). At first I was secretly appalled at how many were willing to cheat so readily. But then I realized they were probably no different than me. They lacked passion in their marriage. They wanted the uncertainty, the chase, the adventure.

 

That made me think that this is what my wife commented about a few years prior when she said I lacked "flair". I had asked her what she meant by "flair", but she couldn't put it into words. After doing what I did for several month in Switzerland, I think I understood what she thought was missing.

 

Realizing that this was inherently bad, I practiced my conversation, my seduction techniques if you will, on my wife. I also practiced on her friends when they came over (but I was not blatant). The results were that my wife got passionate again. The reaction from two of her friends was surprising as well, but that's another story.

 

In the end, what I'm saying is .. forget counseling, forget "the talk", forget nagging. I did all that and it not only got me nowhere .. it may have made the problem worse. I'm definitely not suggesting you go on a sexual binge like I did, but I do suggest that you at least flirt with women outside as often as you can. Do this with the cashier at the store, the lady selling train tickets, the phone operator. Some will respond badly, some won't. After awhile, the women you flirt with will respond well almost all the time because your confidence is up and your conversation is exciting to them. I suspect that this will make you get that elusive flair which will interest your wife.

[LittleDove]

Which std causes delusions and insanity?? syphilis?? have you read your own words? this is NOT okay, of course its exciting, and you must feel great, but at what cost?

 

Check yourself!!!

 

I really hope you are not serious...i have already lost faith in men temporarily..

 

Either stop this stupidity, and be a good husband, or just leave 'home' and do what you love doing so much.

 

As for practising on your wife... i dont doubt you would do that, but her friends as well??

 

how is this okay with you?

[NewKatalyst]

Which std causes delusions and insanity?? syphilis?? have you read your own words? this is NOT okay, of course its exciting, and you must feel great, but at what cost?

 

Check yourself!!!

 

I really hope you are not serious...i have already lost faith in men temporarily..

 

Either stop this stupidity, and be a good husband, or just leave 'home' and do what you love doing so much.

 

As for practising on your wife... i dont doubt you would do that, but her friends as well??

 

how is this okay with you?

 

 

Sorry about what you may have gone through. All I'm trying to do is add another dimension to the problem. I think in most cases, men cheat on their wives after they think their sexual and intimate life with their wives is hopeless. I also learned that women will cheat more readily when the excitment is gone from their marriage.

 

Again, I'm not suggesting cheating nor do I even encourage it. Cheating is my issue. The point of my post to married men is .. learn how to flirt. I mean learn how to flirt effectively, which is far more complex than the usual flirting we bumble along with. I assert that knowing how to flirt will make you seem more exciting to the wives. I learned this by accident.

 

If you don't believe me then go ahead and write me off as a troll and keep doing what you've been doing so far. Ask yourself how that's been working.

[LittleDove]

Fair enough, I see where you are coming from, I think..

Now id ask another question...do you need to sleep with so many women to be able to flirt?

surley not??

I can understand in a marrige things can go a bit dead.. and YES people cheat, but thats nothing to do with the art of FLIRTING.

I like my guy to be confident and be a bit of a flirt, infront of me, with me, im secure enough to actually enjoy seeing my guy getting female attention. The reason im okay with it, is because im trusting I guess. And because I do it too.

plus i like confident men.

It sad that you had to go outside your marrige to find this part of yourself.

Do not pass blame to your wifes temper..please...seriously, this is your deal, and if you put in effort at home, maybe things would be better. Its only been 8 years...

 

Im full of dreams of meeting and falling in love with a genuine guy oneday, a man who doesnt lie and cheat someone I can grow with, not away from.

 

So now the spark is back, and you are flirty, why keep messing around?

 

oh anyway....each to his own. goodluck with whatever you are seeking.

[whichwayisup]

Realizing that this was inherently bad, I practiced my conversation, my seduction techniques if you will, on my wife. I also practiced on her friends when they came over (but I was not blatant). The results were that my wife got passionate again. The reaction from two of her friends was surprising as well, but that's another story.

How far did you go with your wife's friends? Because if you slept with them, they aren't true friends to your wife..

 

Just an idea, but why not ask your wife for an open marriage? Let her decide if she wants to stay married and have men on the side too? How would YOU feel if another man touched your wife, made love to her?

 

One day soon she IS going to find out the truth. I'm sure she has noticed all the changes in you and it probably has crossed her mind that you're cheating on her.

[NewKatalyst]

How far did you go with your wife's friends? Because if you slept with them, they aren't true friends to your wife..

 

Just an idea, but why not ask your wife for an open marriage? Let her decide if she wants to stay married and have men on the side too? How would YOU feel if another man touched your wife, made love to her?

 

One day soon she IS going to find out the truth. I'm sure she has noticed all the changes in you and it probably has crossed her mind that you're cheating on her.

No, no. I never slept with the friends of my wife. But they would have slept with me if I wanted. Again, that's another story, another thread.

 

And yes, it's crossed her mind that I may cheat, but it's because she herself feels more attracted to me than before and is projecting those feelings to what she imagines other women are thinking. She's told me that much.

[whichwayisup]

Do you feel bad at all for deceiving and lying to your wife?

 

You never answered my question - How would you feel if your wife had an affair and let another man please her.

[LittleDove]

Hey- your wife might already be doing the exact same thing....you ARE away alot, and maybe SHE felt just as stagnant as you did.

The fact shes not more worried, would indicate, that maybe she doesnt really care. While you have a 'life while away'- she may just be having a 'life while youre away'...?? food for thought

Bet that wouldnt be too cool.

Either way this wont last, someone, and something will come undone.

And when that happens, all the flirting in the world wont fix things.

[NewKatalyst]

Do you feel bad at all for deceiving and lying to your wife?

 

You never answered my question - How would you feel if your wife had an affair and let another man please her.

 

 

Ok, if you insist ..

 

1) No, not really

2) I wouldn't like it

 

Yeah I know, I'm a bad person and it's not fair.

[NewKatalyst]

Hey- your wife might already be doing the exact same thing....you ARE away alot, and maybe SHE felt just as stagnant as you did.

The fact shes not more worried, would indicate, that maybe she doesnt really care. While you have a 'life while away'- she may just be having a 'life while youre away'...?? food for thought

Bet that wouldnt be too cool.

Either way this wont last, someone, and something will come undone.

And when that happens, all the flirting in the world wont fix things.

 

 

Everything you say could well come true. I doubt she's having a secret affair right now. But if a guy approached her the right way, he could seduce her for sure. If I could disguise myself as another, I'd know how to get her to "cheat". But that's now. 2 years ago, I wouldn't have been able to.

[GoodOnPaper]

I've read well meaning suggestions here and on other advice forums that urge men in these situations to put more effort at being nice. . .

 

I hear you there, one of the classics being "I'd be more interested in sex if he would do more of the housework." In reality, these two issues are completely separate -- the ability to generate chemistry and passion has nothing to do with willingness to do laundry and take out of the garbage. Just out of curiosity, NK, did you get a lot of attention from women before you were married? IOW, do you feel you were starting from scratch (like I would be) or just going back to what you were doing in your single days?

[NewKatalyst]

I hear you there, one of the classics being "I'd be more interested in sex if he would do more of the housework." In reality, these two issues are completely separate -- the ability to generate chemistry and passion has nothing to do with willingness to do laundry and take out of the garbage. Just out of curiosity, NK, did you get a lot of attention from women before you were married? IOW, do you feel you were starting from scratch (like I would be) or just going back to what you were doing in your single days?

 

The extra housework thing is exacyly what I'm talking about. I know now that complying with those things really made me less sexy and not more in her eyes.

 

I did get attention from women when I was younger. But then again, I was 22 and single.

 

I did not feel like was starting from scratch, no. I felt rusty at first. In other words, I'd start to flirt and then draw a complete blank as to what to say once a woman responds. But I also wasn't really looking to hook up. I was just flirting. After awhile the responses I got surprised me and so I did then take the next steps. Also the way you're perceived and thus the way you act is cconsiderably different when you're 22 and when you're 44

[Reggie]

Sounds like you recognize what you are doing is unethical and that, in a way, you are surprised at the number of committed women that are also willing to act this way.

When I first started researching ths infidelity stuff, I was really surprised by its prevalence, too. I had no idea of the number of people living their lives in this manner.

It's rampant and readily available to many. Seems the happiest and most evolved people refrain from engaging in it, as they have the wisdom to recognize that it kills one's soul. They not only see that it hurts others, but that it diminsihes themselves. It's a path leading to big time destruction of bot the infidel and those close to him/her.

Seems few peole , while practicing this, consciously recognize the extent of harm they are inflicting on themselves and others.But, your post contains hints that, in some corner of your mind, you can foresee what it will do.It may not even manifest itself in your lifetime. But, your legacy will be tarnished and your children will think less of you.

[NewKatalyst]

Sounds like you recognize what you are doing is unethical and that, in a way, you are surprised at the number of committed women that are also willing to act this way.

When I first started researching ths infidelity stuff, I was really surprised by its prevalence, too. I had no idea of the number of people living their lives in this manner.

It's rampant and readily available to many. Seems the happiest and most evolved people refrain from engaging in it, as they have the wisdom to recognize that it kills one's soul. They not only see that it hurts others, but that it diminsihes themselves. It's a path leading to big time destruction of bot the infidel and those close to him/her.

Seems few peole , while practicing this, consciously recognize the extent of harm they are inflicting on themselves and others.But, your post contains hints that, in some corner of your mind, you can foresee what it will do.It may not even manifest itself in your lifetime. But, your legacy will be tarnished and your children will think less of you.

 

Well, I disagree that all of those who don't cheat are necessarily refraning for any of the reasons you mentioned above. Based on what I've seen, many men don't sleep with other women because they don't dare or know how to go about it. They're too scared. I believe that 99% of the men out there would respond to the advances of a terrifically beautiful woman if it ever happened (it of course never does).

 

From what I've seen, married women don't cheat because they haven't been persuaded to. But again, if the timing is right, they will readily do so. Most of the "taken" women I've been with were on a girl's night out and presumably with no conscious intention to fool around.

 

I'm not sure what diminishes a human being more than feeling stuck, like I did, in a passionless and sexless marriage. But I suppose that keeps the counselors in business.