44, married and a pickup artist

[NoIDidn't]

Really? State one, please. But, a legit one.

Why fake? His feelings are very real. If anything, his wife instilled a fake judgment in his psyche that he had no flair, and we have evidence that he is, in fact, very attractive. He only had to go out and find out the truth. He didn't develop sex appeal because women slept with him - they slept with him because he always had the sex appeal. Why is his wife's opinion true and the other women's fake?

 

Thing is, if he stops sleeping with other women, if he goes back his his old, nice-guy self, his wife likely won't find him attractive anymore.

 

And in this corner, its RP, the Devil's Advocate.

 

I'll bite.

 

Fake confidence because without his new found admirers he didn't have any. You assume much when you bring his wife's alleged thoughts into this because what I said had nothing to do with her, but everything to do with what he already said about himself. He only has confidence when someone else sees something in him. That's fake.

 

I hope that's good enough fer ya.

[NoIDidn't]

And, I forgot some other portions of my answer.

 

Some legit things he could do to get his W's attention and desire.

 

1. Take dance lessons together

 

2. Take a sensual massage class at a local community college to surprise her

 

3. Take his W on an adventure vacation without the kids

 

4. Take up a legitimate hobby to enjoy himself on that doesn't involve sex with other women.

 

All of these things are legitimate outlets that will release pent up desire and MAY had some flair to a dull personality and marriage.

 

Or his wife simply doesn't like him very much (which I doubt since she seems to think he has found his flair) and is afraid to tell him the truth.

 

Confident people inspire. He just found fake confidence first. If he won't stop now that he has her attention, its because he now needs this other attention like a drug. Ever heard of "liquid confidence"? Think of this the same way.

[JustBreathe]

Wow. How distorted can a person's thinking get. Talk about rationalization and inventing justifications and blaming other people for what he does.

 

Obviously he knows he has a problem. Otherwise, what is he here for? Advice - as to what? To brag - who cares? To free all our spirits so that we too can enjoy the wonders and pleasures of skanking around on our spouses?

 

He's here because he doesn't like what he's doing, however much he claims to love it because he wouldn't be here if he was comfortable with it.

 

Most married women find men like him insipid, self-absorbed and abusive. They are not hard to recognize as they are a walking sad and pathetic advertisement. *yawn* nuttin special.

 

It just amazes me how people can use each other like fast food -- like so many chicken mcnuggets on the run.

 

P.S. - I don't think he likes women. There's a difference between liking screwing women and liking women. He doesn't respect them much. This includes his wife. He abuses them.

[lonelyandfrustrated]

Some legit things he could do to get his W's attention and desire.

 

1. Take dance lessons together

 

He'd try to screw the instructor.

 

2. Take a sensual massage class at a local community college to surprise her

 

He'd try to screw the instructor AND the people who came in for free massages.

 

3. Take his W on an adventure vacation without the kids

 

He'd try to screw the tour guide and the front desk receptionist and perhaps even the chamber maid.

 

4. Take up a legitimate hobby to enjoy himself on that doesn't involve sex with other women.

 

Why on earth would a guy with 'flair' do that?

[Dexter Morgan]

This is like saying "I like how rich guys interact; I don't like their money."

 

No, its not like saying that at all. You can like the rich guy and his money, but how he makes it is quite different.

 

You can like the rich guys and their money as long as it is legally and honorably made. As opposed, for example, someone being rich because they are into organized crime.

[Dexter Morgan]

Well, good was not good enough for this woman. She refused to have sex with her husband unless he brought some flair at home.

 

Not saying this is the case here, but if your man wanted to have sex, but just didn't do much to get you in the mood, you'd be ok with that?

 

I always hear the complaint that a husband just expects sex and just wants to wam, bam, get on with the act.

 

You know the old saying, "at least kiss me before you #$% me."

[RecordProducer]

He only has confidence when someone else sees something in him. That's fake.

 

I hope that's good enough fer ya.

It's like saying "He only sees himself as a good doctor when he cures his patients. That's fake (he should consider himself a good doctor even when all his patients die from his treatment)"

 

We DO gain confidence from our accomplishments and other people's perceptions. If the whole world thinks you're ugly and stupid, you can't possibly feel confident around other people anymore. And when your whole world is one person (your spouse) and they find you unattractive, you start wondering if this is true. It's ridiculous to feel and consider yourself sexy and desirable when nobody desires you. What you're suggesting is that he should have felt attractive and self-confident even though his wife rejected him and clearly expressed her indifference toward him (and there was no one else to confirm the opposite).

 

As a matter of fact, he DID feel deep inside that he WAS sexy enough and he apparently thought "Well, if you don't want me, my dear, other women will want me." I am fairly certain that if he found ONE woman to love him, he would've had one mistress, and his story would've resembled many others. But, he didn't find his soul mate, so he's playing. If anything, I think he's traumatized by his wife's rejections.

[redfathom]

You still can't blame his wife. It's like saying if he burns down a house it's her fault for giving him the match. No one made him start the fire and now he's an effing pyro.

[Woggle]

It's sad that this type of behavior is what gets the best results from women but it does so what is a man to do? He can continue doing this and keep his wife interested or he can be the good faithful who most likely gets cheated on and gets the I love you but I am not in love with you bomb dropped on him. Don't blame him for adapting to modern day male/female relations in order to save his marriage/

[JustBreathe]

If his wife had made him feel sexy and attractive, he might have been faithful to her. But she didn't so he was forced to go outside his marriage to find his sexuality and attractiveness, poor man.

 

Who feels all hot and sexy after 18 years of marriage? Does that mean you're supposed to blame your spouse for it and then go out and screw "countless" people?

 

If you feel that inadequate because of how unwanted your spouse made you feel, then why stay married?

 

Puhlleeeeze. If a man made me feel so rotten I had to skank around with any man I could persuade to hop in the sack with me, I'd hit the road.

 

Some people should not be married.

[redfathom]

How is his marriage saved? I don't think he is "in love" with his wife. It's just that she is the one getting this "sad behaviour" done to her. You want to fault the wife for saying if he didn't do what he is doing she would be doing this to him...but you pity him and not the wife for the same actions you condemn.

[Woggle]

How is his marriage saved? I don't think he is "in love" with his wife. It's just that she is the one getting this "sad behaviour" done to her. You want to fault the wife for saying if he didn't do what he is doing she would be doing this to him...but you pity him and not the wife for the same actions you condemn.

 

He seemingly wants to stay married and she has yet to drop the bomb so it is working for him.

[redfathom]

For him, sure! But marriage is a two way street. You presume to think that she is not "in love" with him and just hasn't YET dropped that bomb. She is just another conquest to him and the mother of his children, nothing more nothing less.

[NoIDidn't]

It's like saying "He only sees himself as a good doctor when he cures his patients. That's fake (he should consider himself a good doctor even when all his patients die from his treatment)"

 

We DO gain confidence from our accomplishments and other people's perceptions. If the whole world thinks you're ugly and stupid, you can't possibly feel confident around other people anymore. And when your whole world is one person (your spouse) and they find you unattractive, you start wondering if this is true. It's ridiculous to feel and consider yourself sexy and desirable when nobody desires you. What you're suggesting is that he should have felt attractive and self-confident even though his wife rejected him and clearly expressed her indifference toward him (and there was no one else to confirm the opposite).

 

As a matter of fact, he DID feel deep inside that he WAS sexy enough and he apparently thought "Well, if you don't want me, my dear, other women will want me." I am fairly certain that if he found ONE woman to love him, he would've had one mistress, and his story would've resembled many others. But, he didn't find his soul mate, so he's playing. If anything, I think he's traumatized by his wife's rejections.

 

Your analogy doesn't hold water. We are talking about a person's individual interactions not professional ones.

 

And, yes, I am saying exactly that. He should have this confidence without sneaking around behind his wife's back to get it. Its fake. He may well be traumatized by his wife's rejections, but that doesn't change the fact that his confidence is fake.

 

Anyone can get laid. That is not an accomplishment - unless you keep the bar really low in that regard.

[Woggle]

For him, sure! But marriage is a two way street. You presume to think that she is not "in love" with him and just hasn't YET dropped that bomb. She is just another conquest to him and the mother of his children, nothing more nothing less.

 

If she wanted an honest and faithful man she should have rewarded that when she had it.

[redfathom]

Who is to say that reward would have been enough...

[JustBreathe]

deleted because I was being mean and not helpful.

[Reggie]

You should ask his wife that. She is the one who was not attracted to him when he was the faithful nice guy. I would never cheat on my wife because I refuse to cater to a woman that craves drama but if this works for him I can't really judge him.

 

C'mon. Do you really believe he is this nice, boring, faithful guy that he claims to have been. What, did he have a brain transplant and now he is a major player with no concern for his wife's physical and emotional health?

If you believe this, I have some oceanfront property in Arizona for sale.

What the hell is "flair"? What BS.

[Reggie]

I'm sure it does make people feel better.

 

And actually I bring out certain qualities in people when they're talking to me. I get labeled "sexy" all the time, and it has nothing to do with the way I dress but more the way I carry myself. A gal friend of mine said she watched the way I walk into a place and she wishes she could be that way. Like I own it. Like I feel confident and it shows. When I talk to people, it could be labeled as "flirting," but it's not in the "let's sleep together" kind of way.

 

I'm still waiting for an answer from the OP about now that he knows what his wife meant as far as what she needed from her relationship with him, is he gonna stop the cheating. I doubt I'll get one.

Yes, me ,too. It's a tremendous burden being this sexy. Just the other day, one of my boyfriends told me he wished he could be like me in that regard. We were in the locker room at the gym and all the guys said the same thing.

[RecordProducer]

If his wife had made him feel sexy and attractive, he might have been faithful to her. But she didn't so he was forced to go outside his marriage to find his sexuality and attractiveness, poor man.

Well, he is not poor from YOUR perspective, cuz you're not in his shoes and you don't care. It's not your wife who told you she's not attracted to you cuz there's something wrong with you. Has this EVER happened to you? Do you know how it feels?

Who feels all hot and sexy after 18 years of marriage? Does that mean you're supposed to blame your spouse for it and then go out and screw "countless" people?

Exactly! His wife wanted a hot and sexy man after 18 years of marriage! Not only that, but she punished him for not being hot and sexy by depriving him from intimacy - which was her moral and marital obligation as a good spouse. On top of everything, she let him know that it's HIM who sucks and lacks the ability to turn her on, cuz Mrs. NK wasn't happy with just regular old-marriage sex; hey, she wanted a 9 and 1/2 weeks type of "flair."

 

If you feel that inadequate because of how unwanted your spouse made you feel, then why stay married?

Because when you love somebody and they tell you that you're inadequate, you start to believe them or at least wonder if you're really inadequate. What if you really are? Then you'll be like that with anyone. Maybe you really suck and don't deserve their love. So you start walking on eggs and doing what you think will please them. When you realize that nothing works, your self-esteem becomes so low that you're ready to do anything to prove your worth to yourself. And then - voilà! It turns out that your spouse was wrong. They simply got bored of you, cuz the new partners find you very attractive. So you develop a Pavlov's reflex that anyone who's with you for longer than a week (or a year) will sooner or later realize that you're not that desirable. His wife has done nothing to show him that he is desirable BECAUSE he's a nice person, a good father, or helpful in the kitchen. She taught him that desirable means treating your wife like you'd treat any stranger in the bar. She wants a playful, flirty husband (a player). And he can't please her unless he simulates this feeling with other strangers in the bar - and he can't simulate it unless he really experiences it. Why did he have to sleep with them? because flirting doesn't prove that you can please a woman. Only when she spreads her legs do you know that she really desires you. He didn't want to flirt with his wife, he wanted to please her in bed, cuz the Mrs. wanted hot and wild sex.

 

Puhlleeeeze. If a man made me feel so rotten I had to skank around with any man I could persuade to hop in the sack with me, I'd hit the road.

I just love when people start sentences with "I would.."

Don't tell me what you would, tell me what you did - when you were in the same situation.

 

Some people should not be married.

Yes, people who discard their spouse's intimate needs because he can't provide the hot and wild sex they crave after 18 years of marriage, are not marriage material. This man, like every human being on earth, wanted to be loved (and that includes sex and emotional validation) by his wife. He did everything he could to please her, but she was never pleased. Until she got what she deserved.

 

that doesn't change the fact that his confidence is fake.

Let's agree to disagree on this issue, okay? Just for the record, whether his confidence is fake or not is a matter of opinion - not a fact.

 

Anyone can get laid. That is not an accomplishment - unless you keep the bar really low in that regard.

Anyone can get laid? Now, imagine when you feel like anyone can get laid - but not YOU. How does that make you feel?

 

deleted because I was being mean and not helpful.

Hahaha! That was cute (and honest).

[carhill]

Do you really believe he is this nice, boring, faithful guy that he claims to have been.

Definitely possible. I've lived it.

 

Dangit R_P, take that head shot down. I'm having a hard time reading your posts

[mental_traveller]

Which PUA course/website are trying to pitch?

 

Seriously, if this is true then it's hilarious. If not, it's still pretty amusing

 

Thanks for your comments, folks. I know that I risk a "crash and burn" as you all seem to think. It's hard to explain this, but I feel like I've entered a new realm which fills a void that was created by my crappy marriage life.

 

I wasn't looking for praise, of course. Otherwise I would have posted this in dating or something. I'm not necessarily proud of it either. I just thought it would be a good idea to inteject a new concept for those people here who have, like me, been in an overall sexless and passionless marriage.

 

I've read well meaning suggestions here and on other advice forums that urge men in these situations to putmore effort at being nice. I simply found that being so nice was not only ineffective, I think it made me boring in her eyes. It actually lessened my chances of improving the passion. Through my infideliies, I learned a bit more about what motivates peope. I slept with several married women and many women in "commited" relationships (Tuesday is a traditional girls night out here). At first I was secretly appalled at how many were willing to cheat so readily. But then I realized they were probably no different than me. They lacked passion in their marriage. They wanted the uncertainty, the chase, the adventure.

 

That made me think that this is what my wife commented about a few years prior when she said I lacked "flair". I had asked her what she meant by "flair", but she couldn't put it into words. After doing what I did for several month in Switzerland, I think I understood what she thought was missing.

 

Realizing that this was inherently bad, I practiced my conversation, my seduction techniques if you will, on my wife. I also practiced on her friends when they came over (but I was not blatant). The results were that my wife got passionate again. The reaction from two of her friends was surprising as well, but that's another story.

 

In the end, what I'm saying is .. forget counseling, forget "the talk", forget nagging. I did all that and it not only got me nowhere .. it may have made the problem worse. I'm definitely not suggesting you go on a sexual binge like I did, but I do suggest that you at least flirt with women outside as often as you can. Do this with the cashier at the store, the lady selling train tickets, the phone operator. Some will respond badly, some won't. After awhile, the women you flirt with will respond well almost all the time because your confidence is up and your conversation is exciting to them. I suspect that this will make you get that elusive flair which will interest your wife.

[mental_traveller]

NK is a player (or a male slut if you wish). Women find him irresistible. When he was a nice guy, nobody found him attractive, not even his own wife who claimed he didn't have the flair. THAT is the point of this thread.

 

I disagree. Here's my take:

 

NK never flirted with women, and for various reasons became a typical boring, middle-aged, grey-haired married guy. Wife got bored of this.

 

NK then for some reason (mid-life crisis?) decided to have fun flirting with women, approaching them just to see what would happen. To his surprise, some women respond to flirtatious approaches. This boosted his self-confidence. His wife noticed him being more confident, and enjoyed his new flirtatious remarks to her, so got more interested in him again.

 

The only lessons are that if you don't approach women, you won't get action; if you approach, you will. And that women (including wives) prefer men with more confidence, men who flirt.

 

So - be confident, learn to flirt, and you will make either your wife or other women happy...or both!

[mental_traveller]

I am not saying he is right but it works. When he was the loving and faithful man she was bored with him and lost interest but now she is attracted to him again. If women want men to stop acting like this then stop rewarding men who do. I used to hate cheaters and for the most part I still do but a man needs to do what works and what brings the best results. He should not be a doormat for some resentful wife who probably would have cheated on him just so he can say he is a nice guy.

 

Yes, but he should have dumped her before doing all this playing. Nothing justifies potentially infecting someone for life with herpes or genital warts, let alone HIV.

 

Cheating is wrong, unless you are being beaten up or seriously abused.

[Reggie]

Definitely possible. I've lived it.

 

Dangit R_P, take that head shot down. I'm having a hard time reading your posts

 

Interested in the AZ property? Great salt water fishing:).