How Do You Step Off the Roller Coaster Gracefully?

[Ms. Red]

I could use improvement in conflict resolution skills myself, and I'm very open to learning. I try to remember things like lowering my voice when we start yelling. I offer things like, "Let's try calming down; I don't want to fight." These things seldom appease him.

 

Go into whatever room in your home has the biggest mirror & look yourself in the eyes & repeat the above quote X3!

 

Next, ask yourself this: "Is this how the love of my life should make me feel in the beginning of our relationship? Is this the self confidence & support MY MAN should be showing me?"

[frannie]

"Emotional gaslight," thanks for labeling it. This is why I feel so freaking confused! When he's mad, he spins things back around on me. When he's doing it, I have enough awareness to notice it, but he talks so fast it still makes my head spin. The thing that really concerns me is the long term potential. That stuff can eat away at a person, where after hearing it enough times both people start believing it's true.

 

Even today, I had to call a couple girlfriends and ask, "Do I have excessive moodswings?" One of my friends said, "Well maybe you don't know how it comes across to him." (She's a beacon of calm who never gets passionate.) Another friend's response felt more accurate. She said that she just had the exact same upset herself, when her partner wasn't helping with anything in the kitchen & the TV was blaring. LOL, but her partner actually turned the volume up for a second to be super-annoying. Sagely, she said that everyone gets upset now and then and couples have stupid misunderstandings, but that him storming out of the house over it is taking it too far.

 

That really is the crux of it. I think his overreactions are really inappropriate. Even if I'm cranky or sad or whatever, verbally punishing then abandoning by leaving is crossing healthy boundaries. This has to stop.

 

WS, a few people noted on an earlier thread of yours that there are several 'red flags' in his behaviour. This was the thread about his turning up late and dressed inappropriately to an evening you had specially arranged and meant a lot to you. I commented at the time that he reminded me very much of my ex, who was emotionally, verbally (and eventually physically) abusive to me. This is not my xMM I'm talking about, to be clear.

 

You are questioning yourself here and that's a certain sign that he's messing with your head. YOU are doing all the work, he is behaving like a jackass and it's all over your posts what he's like only its so hard to see from the inside. Only you're intelligent, analytical, and you like to work on a relationship, so you're trying hard. But the writing is on the wall.

 

Have you ever read websites about this kind of behaviour? Manipulative, controlling, emotionally and verbally abusive. There's a great site out there by 'Dr. Irene' which I would recommend. It really opened my eyes up to the madness I'd been involved in. The fact is you can't reason with this stuff, you can't fix it. Like the earlier poster said, HE can change, perhaps, with a great deal of desire and effort. But the man who storms out when you ask perfectly reasonable things of him is NOT the man to make that effort.

[Shannon2008]

It appears he's using you as his doormat. He also has a LOT of resentment towards you for turning his life upside down...yes..He thinks YOU are the culprit. And since he gave up his marriage for you (in his mind) he's made the ultimate sacrifice.

 

So now 2 things, he's going to make you "pay" for giving him all this stress/grief (whether it's logical or not) in leaving his marriage and if you even dare give him any grief about ANYTHING...he will not take it. He won't talk about it, discuss it...this is what YOU wanted(in his mind)....You'll have to take him as he is and he will not change.

This is the man his wife has lived with all these years. And if he's already behaving this way now..it will only get worse, NOT better. He will walk out on you after a fight, and eventually, he will distance himself emotionally, and that will hurt even more.

 

You should re-evaluate your choice.

[whichwayisup]

It appears he's using you as his doormat. He also has a LOT of resentment towards you for turning his life upside down...yes..He thinks YOU are the culprit. And since he gave up his marriage for you (in his mind) he's made the ultimate sacrifice.

And I'll add onto this, it seems he doesn't have much respect for you as a person, as a woman.

[2sure]

Wildsoul - Hello again. I havent posted to you in awhile because the last time I did I said it felt like I was watching an accident. I have followed your thread, and I know I like you, and it hurts me to say I still feel the same way - but have something I think it is important for you to acknowledge.

 

Originally Posted by jwi71 [Hello emotional abuse. The emotional gaslight. Insidious. Shadowy."

 

 

I'm sure you know something about it. I do too. My H cheated on me. I can get over the sex, over the betrayal. Its the gaslighting he originally did that haunts me. Gaslighting is a type of lie, a total kind of betrayal that makes you question not the liar - but yourself, your mind, your being. Not every kind of liar is even capable of gaslighting. It takes a special kind to really pull it off. I dont know if my husband wasnt very good at it or if I was just not as susceptible as some. The fact that he had any capability at it is frightening to me.

 

Your OM is gaslighting you and his wife, with great effort. He probably does want a divorce - but wants her to think it is her idea. Do you really think that at this point, with him moved out - that the reason he may spend holidays with her is because she hasn't told anyone? Surely, she has confided in those closest to her , her support system.

 

He hates conflict or has no skill at it, either way he is making sure all goes his way. He is avoiding the conflict of divorce with his wife and with you by making each of you think the problem lies with yourselves. Thats the way he operates.

 

It isnt his lies, or his infidelity, or his problem with conflict that you need be most aware of. It is his very very great skill at gaslighting.

Gaslighters want others to believe deep down inside what is happening isnt, what they see they dont.

 

You are buying it , and his wife is not far behind you. I am not saying you should leave him - I have no real advice. I just think you should be aware of and acknowledge this is what is happening.

[2sunny]

maybe the reason he had to stay with his wife for two days is because his gaslighting techniques that he intended to deliver didn't go as planned.

 

usually if a couple have been married for that long - they have an idea how the other spouse approaches situations.

 

she may not have bought in to his gaslighting and she called him on it... then he had to take more time than he wanted to so he could come up with "a different plan of attack" that would work... one that she didn't find suspect. hmmmmm

[wildsoul]

I'm deeply moved by everyone's replies. Thank you.

 

Something has definintely been shifting in my internal landscape. I am hesitant to make a big pronouncement, lest I toggle back and forth with him some more. So I'm asking in advance for understanding if that happens. But my natural boundaries have kicked in. I find myself thinking of how I might break up with him. More importantly, I'm trying to face my fear of how emotionally devastated I think I will be.

 

I'm in a very precarious place financially, all alone w/o family or a safety net. I simply cannot afford to go into a black depression. My self-employed work is dependant on a postive attitude and clear mental capacity.

 

In many ways, my R with him has helped me through this time. We've had so much fun. He's been a fantastic lover and friend. He has the uncanny ability to read my mind and promise me the future life I've always dreamed of (without me even telling him.) There's been a lot of postive reasons why I've been involved with him. He's been a life raft of sorts. Yet there's also been enough drama trauma now that it's having the opposite effect.

 

At this point, I'm only committed to doing whatever keeps me the most balanced. So right now, that is NOT having contact with him. I've got ZERO interest in talking to him right now, and that feels REAL, not like something I think I "should," do. Mentally/emotionally, I think it's best for me to not make any big decisions about the R today. That just gets me all worked up in a bad way. So I'm in one-day-at-a-time mode. I need to stay centered and attend to rebuilding some stability in my life.

[2sunny]

WS-

 

yippee for you! this is a great start. your emotional balance is key.

 

HE has been the one to get it out of whack for you, granted you allowed it. YOU can get yourself back to that safe place called sanity...

 

when you make the effort to get back to a balance that is healthy - you will be capable of being much more effective and productive in all areas of your life.

 

good for you! xo

[2sure]

Wildsoul - dont be concerned with changing your mind , taking advice or not taking it...at least not here.

 

I am very pleased to say that I see very few "I told you so " posts here on LS.

 

We are all here for support, for insight, if you were my friend I would tell you what I thought and support you either way and I'll do it here too.

[wildsoul]

Your OM is gaslighting you and his wife, with great effort. He probably does want a divorce - but wants her to think it is her idea. Do you really think that at this point, with him moved out - that the reason he may spend holidays with her is because she hasn't told anyone? Surely, she has confided in those closest to her , her support system.

 

He hates conflict or has no skill at it, either way he is making sure all goes his way. He is avoiding the conflict of divorce with his wife and with you by making each of you think the problem lies with yourselves. Thats the way he operates.

 

It isnt his lies, or his infidelity, or his problem with conflict that you need be most aware of. It is his very very great skill at gaslighting.

Gaslighters want others to believe deep down inside what is happening isnt, what they see they dont.

 

You are buying it , and his wife is not far behind you. I am not saying you should leave him - I have no real advice. I just think you should be aware of and acknowledge this is what is happening.

Yes, I'm looking very closely at this. Of all the things said and done, it's how he has managed to spin this back on me, playing on my worst fears about myself that concerns me most.

 

He's been saying over and over again that I have "extreme moodswings," and that he doesn't trust me as a result. But what is seriously worth questioning here is whether is not that my moods are extreme, but that he is trying to stop me from expressing any negative thoughts or feelings towards him. It's looking like a control tactic to keep me in line, rather than genuine feedback about me/us having a problem.

[Ms. Red]

On your other thread "Holiday Planning...." I stated this:

 

I believe that you will wake up one day & something inside will just **snap** & you will be fed up & think clearly & know what to do.

 

 

The way you feel today is what I was referring to. And you may "toggle" as you say when/if he calls you up & sweet talks you in a couple days or so. It's OK. Your human. We are still here for you. Hugs 2 U =^-^=

[NoIDidn't]

Wildsoul

 

I am so sorry for the way things are turning out. Everyone has given such great advice already, but I only mention a few observations from my perspective.

 

He's stressed. He knows that Thanksgiving is coming up. If he pisses you off enough beforehand, he can spend it with his wife and her family and creep back into your life between Black Friday (the day after T-day) and Christmas Eve.

 

This is what they do during the affair. They make plans with the OW. They pick a fight with the wife before their date with the OW comes up, so they can claim they stormed out to calm down when they get home to the wife.

 

Its all very manipulative and maddening to me. The makings of a coward.

 

He's emotionally retarded, stunted, immature. He can change. But I'd not hold my breath for that.

[jwi71]

He's been saying over and over again that I have "extreme moodswings," and that he doesn't trust me as a result. But what is seriously worth questioning here is whether is not that my moods are extreme, but that he is trying to stop me from expressing any negative thoughts or feelings towards him. It's looking like a control tactic to keep me in line, rather than genuine feedback about me/us having a problem.

 

Projection. He isn't trustworthy and he knows it so he projects this onto you. Then conjures a flimsy excuse based on mood swings. See the trap. I am not trustworthy so to deflect this back onto you I will say I don't trust you because your mood swings keep me on edge.

 

Except you are the trustworthy one and on edge! Because of his actions and words (dare I say mood swings?). Very deliberate. Very calculated. Evil dear, just plain ol' evil.

 

He fears the negative reactions. He fears it means you are beginning to see through this shroud of lies he has cloaked himself in. So, to dissuade you from exploring his dark places - he overreacts. He gets angry and defensive and spiteful. To scare you away. To minimize the chance you will "go there". He isn't opening up to you- he is closed and hidden. And when you dare approach him, he gets angry. All you can see is what he wants you to see. And its hell on Earth if you ask for more.

 

This is your life if you go forward. This is the true "him". No one is perfect - but this is, this is not normal.

 

And, I can't resist. He blamed this on mood swings? Mood Swings?!!?! You're a woman! You're supposed to have mood swings!

[NoIDidn't]

Yes, I'm looking very closely at this. Of all the things said and done, it's how he has managed to spin this back on me, playing on my worst fears about myself that concerns me most.

 

He's been saying over and over again that I have "extreme moodswings," and that he doesn't trust me as a result. But what is seriously worth questioning here is whether is not that my moods are extreme, but that he is trying to stop me from expressing any negative thoughts or feelings towards him. It's looking like a control tactic to keep me in line, rather than genuine feedback about me/us having a problem.

 

Even though we only cyber *know* each other, I don't see mood swings of any kind. You are very thoughtful and introspective. You look for the solution instead of add to the problem.

 

He is trying to manipulate and control you. He wants you to bend over backwards and kiss his and your a$$ on the way to make HIM comfortable. I don't play that. At all!!

 

You are this close to that epiphany.

[NoIDidn't]

Projection. He isn't trustworthy and he knows it so he projects this onto you. Then conjures a flimsy excuse based on mood swings. See the trap. I am not trustworthy so to deflect this back onto you I will say I don't trust you because your mood swings keep me on edge.

 

Except you are the trustworthy one and on edge! Because of his actions and words (dare I say mood swings?). Very deliberate. Very calculated. Evil dear, just plain ol' evil.

 

He fears the negative reactions. He fears it means you are beginning to see through this shroud of lies he has cloaked himself in. So, to dissuade you from exploring his dark places - he overreacts. He gets angry and defensive and spiteful. To scare you away. To minimize the chance you will "go there". He isn't opening up to you- he is closed and hidden. And when you dare approach him, he gets angry. All you can see is what he wants you to see. And its hell on Earth if you ask for more.

 

This is your life if you go forward. This is the true "him". No one is perfect - but this is, this is not normal.

 

I agreed with everything until I got to this part:

 

 

And, I can't resist. He blamed this on mood swings? Mood Swings?!!?! You're a woman! You're supposed to have mood swings!

 

:lmao:

 

Loved it!

[2sunny]

i personally don't see extreme mood swings from you either - and yes, they DO show even in our approach to correspond when we type the written word.

 

when you have been upset - you state it clearly and with reason.

 

this is completely different when we type in a panicked state of mind and are all over the map... i haven't seen that from you.

 

for example - my family pointed out that my emails are completely different now as opposed to when i was drinking. i don't see it, but they do. so - i can understand the theory that if you were a gal with extreme mood swings - we would have seen that along the way...

 

that is not what i have seen you put out there. you have been honest and genuine when you were upset... THAT is normal. you haven't over reacted.

 

don't second guess yourself in this area, you seem to be doing fine with your mood swings. i see his mood swings and his reaction to adversity as a bigger issue... the fact that he is unwilling to admit it; much less change it is the bigger problem here.

[norajane]

In many ways, my R with him has helped me through this time. We've had so much fun. He's been a fantastic lover and friend. He has the uncanny ability to read my mind and promise me the future life I've always dreamed of (without me even telling him.) There's been a lot of postive reasons why I've been involved with him. He's been a life raft of sorts. Yet there's also been enough drama trauma now that it's having the opposite effect.

I've said it before...and I'll mention it again...

 

Perhaps this guy is only your transition guy, your rebound relationship after your divorce. The intensity of the relationship came from the fact that it's been an affair, and not necessarily because he's the love of your life. Maybe it's time to ditch the life raft since you've made it to land and now it's just dragging you down.

[NoIDidn't]

I've said it before...and I'll mention it again...

 

Perhaps this guy is only your transition guy, your rebound relationship after your divorce. The intensity of the relationship came from the fact that it's been an affair, and not necessarily because he's the love of your life. Maybe it's time to ditch the life raft since you've made it to land and now it's just dragging you down.

 

 

Great post, NJ!

 

Woo hoo!!

[IfWishesWereHorses]

He has the uncanny ability to read my mind and promise me the future life I've always dreamed of (without me even telling him.)

 

WS,

 

I would say this is a red flag more than anything. I understand that some part of him makes you feel so very loved and special BUT there is another part that even when you lay down all your wants and needs they are ignored or considered unimportant. (or worse... labeled dramatic and moody) When your feelings are hurt and you convey that to him even the eventual apology contains the elements of what YOU did to cause HIS reaction.

 

The things that bother you about him aren't the life you've always dreamed of. The parts of him that are, unfortunately can't be separated from the parts that are not.

 

I understand how hurt and torn you are right now. I understand how difficult it is to love part of someone so very much that its impossible to accept the reality of how detrimental the other part of them is for you. "This would be perfect only if..."

 

As a child when I practiced this type of thinking my mother would simply reply...

"If wishes were horses beggars would ride." Exactly the type of thinking that brought me to this site in the first place.

[wildsoul]

He's stressed. He knows that Thanksgiving is coming up. If he pisses you off enough beforehand, he can spend it with his wife and her family and creep back into your life between Black Friday (the day after T-day) and Christmas Eve.

 

This is what they do during the affair. They make plans with the OW. They pick a fight with the wife before their date with the OW comes up, so they can claim they stormed out to calm down when they get home to the wife.

I agree with this, too. When we had plans Friday night (the day after he was a "good boy" and told me about T-day) I wasn't holding my breath, wondering if he might instigate a fight. You all were awesome about wishing me well, but I was pretty quiet here. It occurred to me that consciously or not, he could "win" by agreeing to spend T-day with me, but then passive agressively causing a fight that justified him not coming with me this week.

 

BTW, we did have an adversarial night on Friday. He was doing passive agressive crap such as leaving the front door wide open when he went to walk his dog so that my baby kitten ran outside. My heart was in my throat, scared when of course the kitten ran out. After my guy caught him, I was close to tears but calmly asked him to not leave the door open like that again. The vet told me he's too little. SM then got stupid telling me I was over-reacting. The a** should have been comforting me after scaring me, don'tcha think? Wouldn't you, if you'd accidently let someone's kitten out. After he did it several more times, I realized it was no accident. I nearly threw him out over it, but sucked it up and passive agressively chose to debate politics with him later instead.

 

So we had an okay weekend overall, but on Sunday night when he refused to turn the TV down when I was stressed out, we had the blow out.

 

CRAP. I saw this coming, but it's just occuring to me (emotionally) now how I've been played. He's got it so that he's "mad" at me and not returning my calls. Hell, he even got ME to say on Sunday that we need a time out. !&*#@!! I'm really steamed now. This is NOT ABOUT MY EMOTIONAL MOOD SWINGS. The bastard deliberately tries to get me to react, so he can say it's my mood that is the problem.

 

So let's tally the score on this game, shall we?

 

He gets to be the "good guy" because he sacrificed his W, her family, and his 16 years with them for ME.

 

I am the "bad girl," who is so emotionally unstable that he needs to get away from me. Maybe he should abandon me. What "good guy" would put up with my crap?

 

Oh, and now he can tell his W (after not calling her for at least the last 3 days he was with me) "I've changed my mind and will now spend T-day wth you." So he's the "good guy" again! But he also taught her a lesson that he decides, not her.

 

HE WINS.

 

Ya'all are right. He's playing me. Some teeny part of me still wants to believe otherwise. It's weird how I could already see this on Friday, and also saw a lot of his creepy projection stuff on Sunday when he was yelling weird accusations at me.

 

The innocent part of me still wants to believe he loves me.

The hopeful part of me still wants this to have a different outcome.

The scared part of me is afraid that I'm going to fall apart.

The smart part of me thinks I should LET this fall apart.

The wise part of me thinks it already has.

 

PS: NoIDidn't, thanks for being my tipping point today. Everyone is making great sense, and I'm getting it. But your pointing out how this example is concrete (related to T-day) makes it all less vague and more obvious.

 

Sheesh. I'm really mad right now. :mad:

[GreenX]

Sheesh. I'm really mad right now.

Don't be.. think about this situation in a positive light and be glad that you're now seeing what he is really about before you get sucked in deeper.

 

((hugs)) you're normal, moodswings or not Don't let him belittle you or turn the table on you.. it is he who is causing a rift in your relationship.

[wildsoul]

I've said it before...and I'll mention it again...

 

Perhaps this guy is only your transition guy, your rebound relationship after your divorce. The intensity of the relationship came from the fact that it's been an affair, and not necessarily because he's the love of your life. Maybe it's time to ditch the life raft since you've made it to land and now it's just dragging you down.

Thank you, and please DO mention it again!

 

I was reading a book on dating separated men and it mentions being the "transitional woman." Eww. No one wants to be that. But then it occurred to me that maybe he's MINE. And in a best case scenario, maybe it's okay if that was the purpose of our R together.

 

I've been feeling like the prize is having a future with him (the one HE talks about that mirrors my dreams.) Conversely, I've been feeling that the biggest failure is having this thing blow up and be the HARDEST lesson yet.

 

Maybe what I need to get my head around is seeing that this was a good transition...a checkpoint that lets me know where I'm at in terms of being able to have the R of my dreams.

• On the one hand, we've had fabulous chemistry, romance, sex, friendship. In some ways, the best ever. Coming out of a sexless M, it was good for me to realize that my sexuality isn't broken!
  
• My ability to love is there, and I actually think my communication skills have improved.
  
• On the other hand, my boundaries still need work.
  

Instead of getting all worked up over what a failure I am, maybe I can start to just take this experience in as feedback. Clearly, I'm able to have a lot of what I want in a R, because I experienced it with him. I did. But I've also got some more work to do.

 

As much as my heart of hearts wants to have HIM join me on the path of healing our dysfunctional stuff, so we can then really build on all the great stuff, ultimately I have to do that work. He's not giving me any indicators that he's interested or ready to do "couples work." Eh. Maybe I should just let him play out his next lessons with his W or another mistress.

 

Again, as stated in the title of this thread, I need to do this gently. I can't handle more drama or upset because of all the other stress I'm under. I really need to back out as gracefully as I can.

[wildsoul]

I understand how hurt and torn you are right now. I understand how difficult it is to love part of someone so very much that its impossible to accept the reality of how detrimental the other part of them is for you. "This would be perfect only if..."

 

As a child when I practiced this type of thinking my mother would simply reply...

"If wishes were horses beggars would ride." Exactly the type of thinking that brought me to this site in the first place.

I've often wondered what your member name meant.

 

Thank you for the compassion. You're also reminding me that one of the reasons I need to be gentle with myself over this is that my inner-kid is really involved with him. He really knew how to make that part of me feel special and loved. No matter what the adult part of me thinks, she's gonna get her little heart broken. I'll try explaining to her about the wishes.

[whichwayisup]

As much as my heart of hearts wants to have HIM join me on the path of healing our dysfunctional stuff, so we can then really build on all the great stuff, ultimately I have to do that work.

 

He isn't in that frame of mind to build up your relationship because he really isn't free to do so. Even though he's made you promises and talked about the future, his actions day to day show you he's incapable of committing himself to you, let alone work on the relationship with you and help it grow.

 

He's not giving me any indicators that he's interested or ready to do "couples work." Eh. Maybe I should just let him play out his next lessons with his W or another mistress.

 

Until he divorces, yes. He isn't going to give you any indicators. I think this is where a major problem is. You're ready and want it all now, or atleast a jump start..And he's unwilling to give that to you because HE isn't ready and isn't in the same place you are as to the relationship and making it a number one priority.

[2sunny]

 

 

[*]On the one hand, we've had fabulous chemistry, romance, sex, friendship. In some ways, the best ever.

 

I really need to back out as gracefully as I can.

 

WS-

 

what you listed is what kept me in a 20 year marriage. i can tell you... it is not enough for a happy relationship.

 

my xH emotionally tortured me at every turn... i was in so deep and so accustomed to it that i thought it was normal for every marriage.

 

sure - there were amazingly great things about our interactions, sex, families, friends and everyday living... but, when i look at it with honest truth - he was abusive in a way that is difficult to explain to others... just as you are describing here. when it was good, it was AMAZING; when it was bad (more often than not as the years went along) it was FRIGHTENINGLY terrible.

 

it will suck the life out of you and rob you of your soul if you continue on. meanwhile - you won't even know it's happening... my family and friends recognized it, but i couldn't see it until i almost killed myself by drinking.

 

i'm shaking as i type this - it's hard to explain but it looks like what you are beginning to experience... it only gets worse as time goes along.

 

i'm sorry to tell you... i guess it hits home for me too much to type it so frankly like this. get out while you still have hope for happiness to take to your next HEALTHY relationship.