Why does it always come down to being the BS's fault?

[Angel1111]

Reggie

 

No need to suspect it, its just not true that the cheater did any communicating in most cases. Regardless of what they tell their accomplices (sp?).

 

Accountability is another form of blame with some people not really knowing what it means. We are accountable for our own behavior, not for others. We are accountable for our reactions to others behaviors as well.

 

So, the cheater is responsible for cheating if they chose to do it in light of behavior from their spouses. Period.

 

Accountability is another form of blame? Wow. I hope you're not serious.

 

I read a book once about affairs and a woman was quoted as saying something along these lines: "My husband and I had 2 kids and I thought that I would devote all my time to raising them and figured that when they were all grown, we could get back to our relationship." And she was shocked that they drifted apart and he cheated on her. This is where accountability should come in and she would hopefully see the stupidity of her thinking. Basically ignore your relationship with your husband for 18+ years and think there will be no fallout from that??? I can't even believe people think like this.

 

I really doubt that most WS's did not try to communicate numerous times that there were serious problems in the relationship. I'm not justifying cheating and I'm not saying that all situations are the same. I'm saying that a lot of the time, cheating is a cry for help when other words have not gotten through. I've never cheated on my SO's for not changing dealbreaker behavior, but I did leave them for it. There are a lot of people out there who think they act any way they want to act in a marriage. It just doesn't work that way. An affair is usually the wake-up call for those people.

[NoIDidn't]

Accountability is another form of blame? Wow. I hope you're not serious.

 

I read a book once about affairs and a woman was quoted as saying something along these lines: "My husband and I had 2 kids and I thought that I would devote all my time to raising them and figured that when they were all grown, we could get back to our relationship." And she was shocked that they drifted apart and he cheated on her. This is where accountability should come in and she would hopefully see the stupidity of her thinking. Basically ignore your relationship with your husband for 18+ years and think there will be no fallout from that??? I can't even believe people think like this.

 

I really doubt that most WS's did not try to communicate numerous times that there were serious problems in the relationship. I'm not justifying cheating and I'm not saying that all situations are the same. I'm saying that a lot of the time, cheating is a cry for help when other words have not gotten through. I've never cheated on my SO's for not changing dealbreaker behavior, but I did leave them for it. There are a lot of people out there who think they act any way they want to act in a marriage. It just doesn't work that way. An affair is usually the wake-up call for those people.

 

Yes, I am dead serious. Is that unbelievable?

 

An affair is not a cry for help. You make it seem like the only people that cheat are the ones with lousy, lazy spouses. Oh wait. That's usually what the cheaters say about their spouses. So I guess it makes sense.

 

If a spouse is being a lousy spouse, why stay with them and choose to cheat. More than likely, an affair in many cases is a secret slap in the face - not a cry for help. Especially as most of the cheaters never get that help that you seem to think they are asking for through destructive and deceitful behavior.

 

And there are a lot of people that think they can act any way they want to act in a marriage. A lot of them are the cheaters that you are defending. The example you gave was a poor justification for cheating. Its clear that the woman you *quote* needed to prioritize her husband and his needs AS WELL AS the kids' needs - but she certainly didn't need to be cheated on. Surely YOU aren't serious in thinking that her devotion to her children made her somehow the only person accountable in that marriage? Now THIS is what I can't believe people actually think like.

 

Cheating was definitely a wake-up call for said woman. But she was not accountable for it. She didn't do it. And the stupidity in her thinking? What about the stupidity in his cheating?

 

Your accountability argument is one-sided thus its just a spin on *blame*.

[Angel1111]

Yes, I am dead serious. Is that unbelievable?

 

An affair is not a cry for help. You make it seem like the only people that cheat are the ones with lousy, lazy spouses. Oh wait. That's usually what the cheaters say about their spouses. So I guess it makes sense.

 

If a spouse is being a lousy spouse, why stay with them and choose to cheat. More than likely, an affair in many cases is a secret slap in the face - not a cry for help. Especially as most of the cheaters never get that help that you seem to think they are asking for through destructive and deceitful behavior.

 

And there are a lot of people that think they can act any way they want to act in a marriage. A lot of them are the cheaters that you are defending. The example you gave was a poor justification for cheating. Its clear that the woman you *quote* needed to prioritize her husband and his needs AS WELL AS the kids' needs - but she certainly didn't need to be cheated on. Surely YOU aren't serious in thinking that her devotion to her children made her somehow the only person accountable in that marriage? Now THIS is what I can't believe people actually think like.

 

Cheating was definitely a wake-up call for said woman. But she was not accountable for it. She didn't do it. And the stupidity in her thinking? What about the stupidity in his cheating?

 

Your accountability argument is one-sided thus its just a spin on *blame*.

 

Give it any label you want, but if a person decides to ignore their spouse for years, or control them, or treat them badly - whatever, then they shouldn't be surprised if the marriage falls apart - whether that's through divorce or cheating. And I hope they don't kid themselves and say that they didn't have anything to do with that. It's not about someone deserving to be cheated on - it's about that person being introspective enough to understand their part in how things deteriorated to that point in the first place.

 

No, I'm not faulting the clueless woman for being a good mom. I'm faulting her for being a bad wife. And in doing so, she was a part of causing the foundation of that family to fall apart - not exactly a great gift to the kids if you look at the big picture. In terms of keeping the family intact, the end result would've been the same if he cheated or just left.

 

And given the issues surrounding the bail-outs these days, your view on accountability shouldn't be that unbelievable. It's pretty much the same argument. But yep, still pretty unbelievable.

[Trialbyfire]

Angel, do you know for fact how their marriage was structured? Any man who's got time to cheat, must have a lot of time on his hand, time he should have been investing into his kids and wife, no?

[NoIDidn't]

No, I'm not faulting the clueless woman for being a good mom. I'm faulting her for being a bad wife. And in doing so, she was a part of causing the foundation of that family to fall apart - not exactly a great gift to the kids if you look at the big picture. In terms of keeping the family intact, the end result would've been the same if he cheated or just left.

 

So what are you faulting him for? Apparently not for cheating.

 

See, this is where your argument falls apart. You give absolutely none of your so-called accountability for the fallout to the cheater.

 

I could see blaming her alone if he just outright left. But if he cheated first? Please. He didn't exactly participate in a marriage building exercise himself.

 

Your accountability is still just one-sided blame if you can't see the cheater responsible for their poor judgment in choosing to cheat.

 

PS - You're reaching with your "bailout" link. Stick with what we are talking about.

[Angel1111]

So what are you faulting him for? Apparently not for cheating.quote]

 

It goes without saying that the person who cheated has accountability. Good grief...

[Angel1111]

Angel, do you know for fact how their marriage was structured? Any man who's got time to cheat, must have a lot of time on his hand, time he should have been investing into his kids and wife, no?

 

I don't know anything about their marriage except what she said about it. They were married for about 20 yrs when she found out he cheated. I don't remember a lot of the details except for her comment because I couldn't believe anyone could actually be that clueless.

 

But aside from that, if you really love your spouse, why wouldn't you want to nurture your relationship with them? I just don't get that.

[NoIDidn't]

 

It goes without saying that the person who cheated has accountability. Good grief...

 

Look, I can only go by what you type. I don't assume that you are assigning responsibility when you don't write it. You spent quite a bit of time defining the wife's deficiencies in the marriage. It even sounded like you were patting the guy on the back for cheating on her in response for his being ignored.

 

So, now you say he's responsible for cheating, but that's it? How come no great detail to the damage he did to the same marriage by cheating? See how it comes off as one-sided?

 

I am not trying to be a hardass. You just gotta say what you mean. I don't know of any cyber mind readers.

[NoIDidn't]

I don't know anything about their marriage except what she said about it. They were married for about 20 yrs when she found out he cheated. I don't remember a lot of the details except for her comment because I couldn't believe anyone could actually be that clueless.

 

But aside from that, if you really love your spouse, why wouldn't you want to nurture your relationship with them? I just don't get that.

 

You placed all of the responsibility for the marriage on her shoulders because of one statement that stood out to you? Now there's leap of faith for you.

 

A twenty year old marriage has so many layers and experiences. It is unbelievably naive to think that what she said was the only thing going on there.

 

Maybe he neglected her so she threw herself into raising the kids with abandon. Maybe, just maybe, she loved him and trusted him and THAT'S why she was shocked to find out that he cheated.

 

So many layers to go through, and you only stopped at one. No wonder it came off so one-sided.

[Woggle]

Why didn't he try and find a babysitter for the kids or at least try and talk to her? As wrong as cheating is though I do think that some people do their best to reward it like the wife who is bored with her faithful and honest husband and craves drama or the men who blames himself for his wife's cheating and bends over backwards to be her doormat. None of this justifies cheating though. If a person if not worth your fidelity than leave them.

[Angel1111]

Look, I can only go by what you type. I don't assume that you are assigning responsibility when you don't write it. You spent quite a bit of time defining the wife's deficiencies in the marriage. It even sounded like you were patting the guy on the back for cheating on her in response for his being ignored.

 

So, now you say he's responsible for cheating, but that's it? How come no great detail to the damage he did to the same marriage by cheating? See how it comes off as one-sided?

 

I am not trying to be a hardass. You just gotta say what you mean. I don't know of any cyber mind readers.

 

I'm not saying anything new. I already said that I'm not justifying cheating.

 

The thing is, I never hear anyone ask, 'Did I do anything to help create this mess?', or 'Did I do anything to drive my partner away?' All I ever hear is, 'Hey, he cheated on me therefore he's the scum of the earth and never deserved me...'

 

Again, it's not about blame - it's about accountability. A relationship typically does not fall apart without the help of both parties and if both parties can't look at their part in the downfall, then it'll just crash and burn again. Yes, to be sure, cheating is a destructive act. Which, again, is why it's such a showstopper and tends to get everyone's undivided attention. It's the nuclear bomb of relationships. Some recover, some don't. Some should recover, some shouldn't.

 

My ex cheated on me so don't think I haven't been there. He was verbally abusive and I knew that if I continued to stay in that relationship, he was going to cheat. Which is exactly what he did. Where's my accountability in that? It's in the fact that I should've never stayed in a relationship like that and should've listened to my instincts. Did that justify what he did? No. Accountability isn't about justification...or blame. But I can honestly say that I made a bad decision by sticking around when someone treated me the way he did.

 

I personally like the idea of accountability. For me to think that I was a complete victim in that situation would've made me feel like I was completely at his mercy. And the truth is, I wasn't.

[marriedandsad]

This thing ate my post yesterday *shakes fist*.

 

When my ex cheated on me...call him Matt...he was so casual about telling me it was ridiculous! We'd been together for about a year. We had taken a 1 month break or so at some point, but promptly got back together. Now he technically cheated on me twice. First time he was supposed to meet me in his college's town because we were getting together with my best friend to do some shopping and go out for dinner. (He LOVED shopping). He didn't show up at the time he was supposed to. So I called him from her cell phone and he sounded REALLY upset. He then dropped the bombshell on me. When we had taken a break, he had started dating someone else. No big deal right? Well when we got back together....he never told her and ended things and never told me. So he had two girlfriends. I told him right there it was either her or me, he couldn't have both, and he had been telling me he loved me and wanted only me blah blah blah. She was screaming at him in the background yelling "DID SHE JUST TELL YOU TO PICK!!!! WTF!!!!" and then he said he was going to meet in me 30 in minutes. He never showed up. We worked things out and he told me dumped her and he was 100% with me and groveled at my feet. Silly me took him back.

 

Episode 2.

I had just found out my grandmother had close to a week to live. Matt knew this and was being pretty supportive. I spent most of that time at the hospital that was close to an hour away with my family. I had gone home to take a shower, pick up a prescription from my doctor and call Matt and let him know she probably only had a day left. He had left a message on my answering machine stating that due to construction going on by his college, his phone and internet would be off so he would get back to me the next week. No cell phone...nothing. Silly me believed that...for a day or 2. When I was picking up my prescription I saw my aunt who told me that my grandmother had passed away about 45 minutes earlier. I was pretty upset and forgot Matt said the lines would be "out". I went home and called him, no answer. Then I started thinking. WHY would the lines be out? So I called his college's switchboard and as soon as they answered I had my answer. But I still asked.."Hey is there construction going on over there knocking out lines for the phone and internet at the dorms?" Um nope. So I knew. A few days later I was finally able to get a hold of Matt and this is the conversation that ensued:

 

Matt: Hey Arna...I need to talk to you.

Me: um..okay?

Matt: I met someone....and I am going to ask her to marry me.

Me: Um WTH did THIS happen????

Matt: She is the most beautiful wonderful girl I have ever met

Me: Gee thanks, I know where that leaves me

 

And then I let spew forth some pretty vile words and hung up. About a month later he showed up with his new fiancee in tow at my apartment to introduce us (can you say EGO??). Well my new boyfriend was there at the time and Matt was all shocked that I would have my new boyfriend there (apparently I was trying to make him jealous ROFL!). I did let his fiancee know how he and I "met" and that I was indeed dating him when she met him and then he popped the question. The look she gave him was priceless. They did end up breaking up several months later. And now he is married to the first girl he cheated on me with. Nice huh. Btw, that new boyfriend cheated on me with my then college best friend. I started looking at me to see where the problem was....it was them. They were jerks and nasty. I didn't find happiness until I met my dh who wasn't even from anywhere near where I lived.

 

These guys all tried to blame me or act like the moment they cheat, that our relationship is completely over...like they actually get the final say in it. Then they expect us to sit there and wait for them as if they crap out golden nuggets. Well no. We all have lives too, why should MINE rotate around THEIRS?

[Trialbyfire]

I don't know anything about their marriage except what she said about it. They were married for about 20 yrs when she found out he cheated. I don't remember a lot of the details except for her comment because I couldn't believe anyone could actually be that clueless.

 

But aside from that, if you really love your spouse, why wouldn't you want to nurture your relationship with them? I just don't get that.

Perhaps you need to ask the cheater why he wouldn't nurture his portion of the relationship. It's clueless to expect that a mother who wants to do the best for their children, will have enough energy to throw herself wholeheartedly into their relationship without any help from the man. He also needs to do his share of whatever it takes to fuel a functional relationship.

[OWoman]

Perhaps you need to ask the cheater why he wouldn't nurture his portion of the relationship. It's clueless to expect that a mother who wants to do the best for their children, will have enough energy to throw herself wholeheartedly into their relationship without any help from the man. He also needs to do his share of whatever it takes to fuel a functional relationship.

 

 

Maybe she was the one that wanted the kids, and he felt alienated and abandoned when she transferred all her attention to them, shutting him out? I've seen quite a bit of that... Maybe he tried to get through to her, but she was only interested in him being a father, and he wasn't into that whole thing because she'd trapped him into it and he couldn't relate, and he wanted his W back but she'd morphed from being a w to being a mother, and so he sought a real woman who could be a woman rather than a mother - but at the same time he couldn't just up and off and dump her with new babies because society would stone him, so he kept up his duty and stayed with his family but got his love and affection and intellectual stimulation and engagement on the side?

[Trialbyfire]

Maybe she was the one that wanted the kids, and he felt alienated and abandoned when she transferred all her attention to them, shutting him out? I've seen quite a bit of that... Maybe he tried to get through to her, but she was only interested in him being a father, and he wasn't into that whole thing because she'd trapped him into it and he couldn't relate, and he wanted his W back but she'd morphed from being a w to being a mother, and so he sought a real woman who could be a woman rather than a mother - but at the same time he couldn't just up and off and dump her with new babies because society would stone him, so he kept up his duty and stayed with his family but got his love and affection and intellectual stimulation and engagement on the side?

It takes two to start a family. If he didn't want children, he didn't have to have them. If she trapped him, he didn't have to stay. He could easily have walked and paid the dollars to do so. If he stayed for money reasons, he's got bigger issues than just cheating.

[Angel1111]

It takes two to start a family. If he didn't want children, he didn't have to have them. If she trapped him, he didn't have to stay. He could easily have walked and paid the dollars to do so. If he stayed for money reasons, he's got bigger issues than just cheating.

 

Where did this assumption come from that he didn't help with the kids or didn't want them??? I don't know if he did or didn't - she never mentioned it one way or another. If he was working, I'd say that was a form of helping. He could've been Dad of the Year for all I know. But I will say that it is possible - not to mention necessary - to be a good parent and maintain a loving relationship with your partner. Contrary to popular belief, children do not take precidence over everything else that goes on in the household.

[Trialbyfire]

Where did this assumption come from that he didn't help with the kids or didn't want them??? I don't know if he did or didn't - she never mentioned it one way or another. If he was working, I'd say that was a form of helping. He could've been Dad of the Year for all I know. But I will say that it is possible - not to mention necessary - to be a good parent and maintain a loving relationship with your partner. Contrary to popular belief, children do not take precidence over everything else that goes on in the household.

Refer to OWoman's comment.

 

Maybe she was the one that wanted the kids

 

Those are the questions I asked you. If you don't know the answers to what kind of great dad he was or wasn't, you can't judge what kind of wife she was. I do question any family man on where all the time he put towards having an affair came from. A father of the year would be too busy spending time with his kids, rather than indulging in an affair.

[Reggie]

Maybe she was the one that wanted the kids, and he felt alienated and abandoned when she transferred all her attention to them, shutting him out? I've seen quite a bit of that... Maybe he tried to get through to her, but she was only interested in him being a father, and he wasn't into that whole thing because she'd trapped him into it and he couldn't relate, and he wanted his W back but she'd morphed from being a w to being a mother, and so he sought a real woman who could be a woman rather than a mother - but at the same time he couldn't just up and off and dump her with new babies because society would stone him, so he kept up his duty and stayed with his family but got his love and affection and intellectual stimulation and engagement on the side?

Yeah, maybe.... But, consider the source of the info. It's a common phenomena for the cheater to rewrite history and blame. But, by definition, the cheater as a source is not relieable, having already demonstrated dishonesty and with a strong motivation to justify at all costs.

[marriedandsad]

Wait wait wait...so a woman can force a man to give her children? Isn't children something major you should discuss BEFORE getting married? I mean if my dh had said "I don't want kids...period...ever" and I was saying "I WANT KIDS!!!!" and I was NOT going to budge..you better believe we'd be rethinking our engagement. I've heard of some people putting the children into a prenup...either they agree to one child or whatever...or to none.

 

And as a mom, it is very easy to lose yourself in your child's/children's day to day routine. I have a little boy who will be 3 in a few weeks. By the end of the day I am ready to collapse. You know how some parents cry when their children start preschool? I'm actually excited, because it means some actual ME time for once. My me time consists of 10 minutes in the shower, which even then my dh or son are coming in to ask me a question or in the case of my son, strip and jump in with me. I can't drive due to medical reasons, so I can't just take the car and say I'm going out for coffee at the bookstore the next town over. And no we don't have taxi's here (that's what I get for living in the middle of nowhere). So I can see where a mother can intertwine herself into the lives of her babies. It's all some of us know now. BUT also if a husband sees his wife is burned out, and really has no life of her own (and simple talking day to day can tell him that...if he asks what she did today and all she can talk about is baking, washing crayon off the wall, driving kids to practice...you get the idea...he needs to say "honey...how would you like for me to get a sitter, and we go out for a nice movie and nice dinner"), why does he turn his back on her and have an affair?

 

There are some circumstances where the woman will always say the children trump the spouse 100% because they are chiiiiiiiildren. Well your spouse needs attention too just the same. Just makes me sad.

[marriedandsad]

Oh and btw, my husband said that I got totally sexier the day I became a mother He sees a whole new side to me, like I think he the day he became a father he became completely sexier to me too Nothing like watching the other rock our son to sleep or when he was a baby, feeding him a bottle. Totally melted our hearts to watch that

[OWoman]

It takes two to start a family. If he didn't want children, he didn't have to have them. If she trapped him, he didn't have to stay. He could easily have walked and paid the dollars to do so.

 

If he'd left his pregnant - or newly given birth - wife, because she'd fallen pregnant (deliberately) against his wishes, you can be sure he'd have gotten no sympathy from anyone, and a whole bunch of people accusing him of running out on her like some coward. He'd have been subject to enormous pressure to stay - including no doubt some guilt of his own. A guy in this position really can't win! (A woman, at least, has the option of having an abortion!)

 

Wait wait wait...so a woman can force a man to give her children? Isn't children something major you should discuss BEFORE getting married? I mean if my dh had said "I don't want kids...period...ever" and I was saying "I WANT KIDS!!!!" and I was NOT going to budge..you better believe we'd be rethinking our engagement.

 

I've seen many cases where both spouses agreed at the outset not to have children, but then along the way one - mostly the woman - changed her mind and EXPECTED her partner to change his, too. In some cases, they break up at that point, but in others, the woman went ahead and "accidentally" fell pregnant and the husband just had to lump it. I know of one guy who left, but the others stayed and just died a little each day. It does no one a favour, and while it's safe to expect to at least some degree that he'll get used to it and grow to love the kids, it never does away with that simmering resentment at being cheated and having his autonomy - and genetic material - taken from him against his will.

 

Yeah, maybe.... But, consider the source of the info. It's a common phenomena for the cheater to rewrite history and blame. But, by definition, the cheater as a source is not relieable, having already demonstrated dishonesty and with a strong motivation to justify at all costs.

 

In the case I'm speculating on, the source of info was the BW, IIRC? In the cases on which I'm basing my speculation, they're couples both known to me over years, so the source is both of them.

[OWoman]

And as a mom, it is very easy to lose yourself in your child's/children's day to day routine. I have a little boy who will be 3 in a few weeks. By the end of the day I am ready to collapse. You know how some parents cry when their children start preschool? I'm actually excited, because it means some actual ME time for once. My me time consists of 10 minutes in the shower, which even then my dh or son are coming in to ask me a question or in the case of my son, strip and jump in with me. I can't drive due to medical reasons, so I can't just take the car and say I'm going out for coffee at the bookstore the next town over. And no we don't have taxi's here (that's what I get for living in the middle of nowhere). So I can see where a mother can intertwine herself into the lives of her babies. It's all some of us know now. BUT also if a husband sees his wife is burned out, and really has no life of her own (and simple talking day to day can tell him that...if he asks what she did today and all she can talk about is baking, washing crayon off the wall, driving kids to practice...you get the idea...he needs to say "honey...how would you like for me to get a sitter, and we go out for a nice movie and nice dinner"), why does he turn his back on her and have an affair?

 

That would be the best solution - assuming that was what they both wanted. But she may be feeling sullen and resentful - or unhappy at leaving the baby, who has now become her primary relationship - and may not want to spend undiluted time in her H's company. And he, likewise after a hard day's work, may feel resentful that he's having to make all the effort and not getting any attention himself, and might just want to tune out for a while. So there are many reasons why it might not work out on the one time they try it - which then lessens the odds for them trying it again, another time.

 

There are some circumstances where the woman will always say the children trump the spouse 100% because they are chiiiiiiiildren. Well your spouse needs attention too just the same. Just makes me sad.

 

Absolutely.

[marriedandsad]

Okay let me just say this....there is no accidentally getting pregnant. You wouldn't believe how many people I hear say this. One of my friends refused to go on the pill or get any type of birth control. I kept telling her she was asking for trouble. She was extremely sexually active. She went to the doctors and I went with her. The doctor was going over her sexual history and asked her "Are you trying to start a family?" And he wasn't being snarky, he was seriously asking her this. She kept saying no she wasn't. He asked if the guys were using condoms at least "Oh no we use withdrawal"...so he repeated himself AGAIN "So you're trying to start a family"...everytime she said no he repeated himself until she finally got it. I have gotten pregnant on the pill, I found out later that my medications can interfere with birthcontrol. They speed up my liver function with doesn't allow as much of the hormones to be absorbed by my body, which is pretty much like not taking birth control at all. There is no 100% way to not get pregnant except for abstinence. The most fool proof way is that the guy says "I do not EVER want to have children...EVER" and the wife agrees that she doesn't want to have children ever, they go to the doctor and he gets snipped. (don't even get me started on women having tubals done as well....I have to get one done because my husband won't get a vasectomy because he doesn't want his manly parts cut into....well his procedure is an office visit, mine is actual surgery...which one is easier on the person huh?). If the wife "accidentally" becomes pregnant, I blame them both. You never ever want children, then you make it impossible, you don't place the responsibility on your wife to keep YOU happy in that situation. She gets to have hormones put into her body or rings put around her cervix while the man gets a free ride. Not okay.

 

And I have to ask. If your wife is the type of person to be sneaky and stop taking BC or poke a hole in the condom...is that REALLY the type of person you want to be married to?

[Married One]

I'm sorry, I am married, and I am myself involved with someone married also. But just reading your thread, and feeling your pain, I should tell you honestly that I think there should be no excuse for cheating. And definitely not for someone's weight! He should have been talking to you first. The ONLY valid excuse for me is if you have kids. At least, that's our excuse so far.

 

If you still want him, try make him see it. He and you need to talk. However, if that's his hobby, then there's nothing worth even staying for (unless, he is providing for you, in which case, you should live it out for yourself then).

 

Hope this helps you find yourself.

[OWoman]

Okay let me just say this....there is no accidentally getting pregnant. You wouldn't believe how many people I hear say this. One of my friends refused to go on the pill or get any type of birth control. I kept telling her she was asking for trouble. She was extremely sexually active. She went to the doctors and I went with her. The doctor was going over her sexual history and asked her "Are you trying to start a family?" And he wasn't being snarky, he was seriously asking her this. She kept saying no she wasn't. He asked if the guys were using condoms at least "Oh no we use withdrawal"...so he repeated himself AGAIN "So you're trying to start a family"...everytime she said no he repeated himself until she finally got it. I have gotten pregnant on the pill, I found out later that my medications can interfere with birthcontrol. They speed up my liver function with doesn't allow as much of the hormones to be absorbed by my body, which is pretty much like not taking birth control at all. There is no 100% way to not get pregnant except for abstinence. The most fool proof way is that the guy says "I do not EVER want to have children...EVER" and the wife agrees that she doesn't want to have children ever, they go to the doctor and he gets snipped. (don't even get me started on women having tubals done as well....I have to get one done because my husband won't get a vasectomy because he doesn't want his manly parts cut into....well his procedure is an office visit, mine is actual surgery...which one is easier on the person huh?). If the wife "accidentally" becomes pregnant, I blame them both. You never ever want children, then you make it impossible, you don't place the responsibility on your wife to keep YOU happy in that situation. She gets to have hormones put into her body or rings put around her cervix while the man gets a free ride. Not okay.

 

That theory is impeccable - but in practice, many people (of both genders) balk at the idea of sterilisation because of the scare stories. I know that at one stage fully 75% of the women I knew personally who'd had TLs had fallen pregnant subsequently, because they'd either cut the wrong bit (ligament instead of tube - apparently very easy with laparoscopic surgery) or because the clamps had come off and the tubes had rejoined, subsequently. Oh, and one had an ectopic pregnancy which was life threatening. It certainly scared me off!

 

But also, in some countries (not sure if the law / policy still holds, but it used to) spousal consent is required if one spouse wants to be sterilised. And if one of them is at least ambiguous about it, it's easy to hype up the other person's concerns about the surgery to discourage them from the idea. And I've heard of at least one W who refused point blank to sign her H's consent because she feared it would ruin the aesthetics of his scrotum!

 

And I have to ask. If your wife is the type of person to be sneaky and stop taking BC or poke a hole in the condom...is that REALLY the type of person you want to be married to?

 

Exactly! But that's the kind of thing one typically discovers too late...