Career VS Family

[Meaplus3]

 

It is called arrogance Mea, some people are so complete arrogant to the real sacrifice and extremely hard work it is to be a parent they think "oh piece of cake". And I do hope they are hungry because I do see big piece of humble pie headed their way.

 

 

Yes..I'm starting to see that now.

 

Of course it is a sacrifice and it is a life LONG sacrifice if you think it is anything less than that you TRULY haven't even scratched the surface of what it is to become a mom.

 

 

Life long for sure.

 

 

I have been "mom" to my nieces and nephews and when my nephew was born I was career transitioning and had a lot of time to be around him so it was like I was a mom to him, but guess what I am NOT a mom to them nor do I REALLY know what it feels like and what is like to be around a baby or two or three for that matter 24/7, so as much as I have played mom for intervals of time it's not the same until you are there day in day out making decisions figuring things out and reaping what you sow.

 

 

This is 100% the truth.

 

Mea:)

[Tomcat33]

Tomcat, try taking all the letters of the alphabet and shuffle them around. Then ask her to sound out a random letter. Even better, ask her to spell "purple" with the alphabet flash cards. This will define if she can really read and understand word structure.

 

 

For goodness sake get a grip woman she is 13 months old not a SUPER BABY!

It's like the only thing that will ease your doubts is if I tell you the baby can recite Shakespeare.

 

NO that is where you are missing the point TBF. She is still a baby so for her level of comprehension/interaction at this stage she is doing what she can which is a LOT more than most babies at that age who don't have reading training. I can see her struggling to say words sometimes when I show her cards, she will watch me and just stare at me and I will a say a word several times and then maybe a few minutes later she will blurt out something close phonetically. How many babies do you know that are a year old and can recognize words and mouth them out? Not sure what your point is in trying to debunk this, or why you are so gung ho on trying to make it seem like it's bullshet but unless you are around babies of this age all the time and observe them and see their tendencies often then you don't know this for fact. I'll let you know how this pans out in a few years but for now she is ahead of the game.

 

But this is off topic now because quite frankly a working mom could do this too, but I'll say this I don't know to what level of dedication she would have the patience to teach this to their baby because it does take a lot of patience and you do need time.

[Touche]

Tomcat, try taking all the letters of the alphabet and shuffle them around. Then ask her to sound out a random letter.

 

That could be an indicator that she can really read but not necessarily. When kids learn phonetically they can read, truly read, some words but not others. It really all depends on where they are in their learning. I mean I can remember teaching our son how groups of letters should sound. Like "ea" and "ee" and "ph" and "f"...if he hadn't yet leaned that part of the lesson then he couldn't really read those words. "Phony" might come out as "Pony" or sounding like "Pone-eye" or "Puh-Hon-eye" or any other thing.

 

So although he might be able to sound out all the letters individually, it wouldn't necessarily mean he could read with a high degree of success and comprehension.

 

The ability to sound out random letters, even if she could sound them ALL out is not a reliable indicator concerning her reading ability.

Even better, ask her to spell "purple" with the alphabet flash cards. This will define if she can really read and understand word structure.

 

That's wrong too. The ability to spell it out or not has nothing to do with whether the child can read the word or not.

 

spelling and reading are two separate skillz.

[Trialbyfire]

For goodness sake get a grip woman she is 13 months old not a SUPER BABY!

It's like the only thing that will ease your doubts is if I tell you the baby can recite Shakespeare.

That's because she can't honestly read Tomcat. Get real.

 

NO that is where you are missing the point TBF. She is still a baby so for her level of comprehension/interaction at this stage she is doing what she can which is a LOT more than most babies at that age who don't have reading training. I can see her struggling to say words sometimes when I show her cards, she will watch me and just stare at me and I will a say a word several times and then maybe a few minutes later she will blurt out something close phonetically. How many babies do you know that are a year old and can recognize words and mouth them out? Not sure what your point is in trying to debunk this, or why you are so gung ho on trying to make it seem like it's bullshet but unless you are around babies of this age all the time and observe them and see their tendencies often then you don't know this for fact. I'll let you know how this pans out in a few years but for now she is ahead of the game.

 

But this is off topic now because quite frankly a working mom could do this too, but I'll say this I don't know to what level of dedication she would have the patience to teach this to their baby because it does take a lot of patience and you do need time.

A working mom can teach a baby to recognize words by rote. You act like every working mother's baby is retarded and lies there or are neglected.

 

Just stop with the extremes.

 

Btw, it's not proven that early reading does much good in the long-term and for that matter, she's only playing a memory game with pictures, not honestly reading. The rest of the kids catch up pretty fast, once they hit elementary school.

[Trialbyfire]

Touche, somehow I doubt your son could do this at 13 months. That's my point. The illustration made is unrealistic and darn near impossible, considering human developmental stages. 13 month old babies do not have the cognitive skills to read.

 

But...

 

13 month old babies can recognize pictures, including symbolic pictures.

[popey]

It is called arrogance Mea, some people are so complete arrogant to the real sacrifice and extremely hard work it is to be a parent they think "oh piece of cake". And I do hope they are hungry because I do see big piece of humble pie headed their way.

 

It's a piece of cake if you are going to pawn off your children on your husband and nanny but otherwise you are in for a HUGE surprise. I am not even a mom but I have the utmost respect for all mothers out there doing it the best they know how. Especially you Mea with three kids I commend you and your hard work, and sacrifice it is VERY hard work that goes for the most part completely unnoticed.

 

I especially enjoyed a comment earlier to the effect of how "giving is not a sacrifice, I give when I know it's being reciprocated and if it is not I stop giving so no giving is not a sacrifice" that one made me laugh out loud since being a parent is the most one way act of giving you can do since no one other than your partner (if that) will come to tell you "great job today and thank you for all the valuable lessons that was amazing parenting let's do it all over again tomorrow mom" there will be NONE of that. So what will you do then? walk away because your work is not being reciprocated? Pfffft that shows how out of touch it is to compare other things to parenting.

 

Of course it is a sacrifice and it is a life LONG sacrifice if you think it is anything less than that you TRULY haven't even scratched the surface of what it is to become a mom.

 

Since you pointed out an interest in directing people to researching child development, I can offer you some you some reading selections about the damage caused by parents who view themselves as martyrs... the sacraficer. You say no one notices the job one does as a parent. I respectfully disagree. The child most definitely notices; including if his parents feel that giving the him what he needs is an act of sacrafice rather than simply what they want to do because they love him and his needs matter to them.

[Tomcat33]

Btw, it's not proven that early reading does much good in the long-term and for that matter, she's only playing a memory game with pictures, not honestly reading. The rest of the kids catch up pretty fast, once they hit elementary school.

 

 

That's fresh coming from someone who is COMPLETELY clueless on the subject, and as of a few minutes ago didn't even know you could teach a baby to read.

 

You're hilarious TBF!! :laugh:

 

 

Please carry on telling mothers what it's like to be a mom that was FAR more entertaining.

[Trialbyfire]

That's fresh coming from someone who is COMPLETELY clueless on the subject, and as of a few minutes ago didn't even know you could teach a baby to read.

 

You're hilarious TBF!! :laugh:

 

 

Please carry on telling mothers what it's like to be a mom that was FAR more entertaining.

What are you talking about? A 13 month old baby can't read. You might want to learn about children and parenting, previous to slamming people.

 

Next, you're going to try to say that your tuxedo cat can read and you've got proof of that too by linking to an ad!

[Tomcat33]

Since you pointed out an interest in directing people to researching child development, I can offer you some you some reading selections about the damage caused by parents who view themselves as martyrs... the sacraficer. You say no one notices the job one does as a parent. I respectfully disagree. The child most definitely notices; including if his parents feel that giving the him what he needs is an act of sacrafice rather than simply what they want to do because they love him and his needs matter to them.

 

 

??????????????????????????? Who is being a martyr? Clearly you misunderstood my point.

 

If you had read what I was refering to you would not feel the need to take my comment out of context to make your point.

 

I was simply making the reflection that motherhood is not the kind of thing that is reciprocated on a daily basis where by you give and you get something immeditely back because someone said that giving should not be a sacrifice and that they give as long as they are getting in return if they feel they are not getting in return then they stop giving so for them giving is not a sacrifice. So when you put that attitude towards parenting you will MOST DEFINITELY have days where you feel like you are giving and getting nothing in return. So what then, walk away? Quit parenthood? abandon ship? It's a foolish thing to say. THAT WAS point.

[Meaplus3]

Oh geezum guys. This thread has really turned into such an all out cat fight and on such a personal choice sort of subject. Really is there a wright or wrong answer here?

 

Mea:)

[Trialbyfire]

Oh geezum guys. This thread has really turned into such an all out cat fight and on such a personal choice sort of subject. Really is there a wright or wrong answer here?

 

Mea:)

There is no right or wrong answer about freedom of choice. I find the entire issue appalling that people feel there's only one right answer for everyone.

 

You've also been doing your own slamming, in your own way. Own it too.

[Touche]

Touche, somehow I doubt your son could do this at 13 months. That's my point. The illustration made is unrealistic and darn near impossible, considering human developmental stages. 13 month old babies do not have the cognitive skills to read.

 

But...

 

13 month old babies can recognize pictures, including symbolic pictures.

 

Wow, even when we AGREE you're combative! Sheesh. I'm agreeing.

 

Read what I wrote.

 

You really don't know whether TC's niece can really read or not based on what your criteria was. That's all I was saying.

 

My guess? It's probably sight or whole word reading. But according to many of the so-called experts that IS reading. I have my own ideas about what really comprises real reading though. That's all I was saying.

[Meaplus3]

There is no right or wrong answer about freedom of choice. I find the entire issue appalling that people feel there's only one right answer for everyone.

 

You've also been doing your own slamming, in your own way. Own it too.

 

As a SAHM I have added a few thoughts to this thread but in NO way,shape or form have I done any slamming. Not my style TBF.

 

I guess the I was just a little taken back by the turn of direction the thread took.

 

Mea:)

[Tomcat33]

Next, you're going to try to say that your tuxedo cat can read and you've got proof of that too by linking to an ad!

 

 

I am starting to wonder if you can read.

 

That "ad" I linked you to is the website for the tool used to teach babies to read. Before you go off spewing your nonsense, you might do well to educate yourself on the topic, I invited you watch the videos too. If you choose not to then that is your prerogative but please don't try to debate something you are clueless about. And trying to undermine what I am saying through your childish remarks does even less for your cause.

 

Let's see of you can read this:

 

http://www.cnn.com/books/news/9803/02/reading.baby.cnn/index.html

 

http://www.parentandchildshow.co.nz/visit/auckland/drroberttitzer.asp

 

http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Your-Baby-Can-Read-789061.html

 

http://teachbabyreading.com/

[Touche]

Oh geezum guys. This thread has really turned into such an all out cat fight and on such a personal choice sort of subject. Really is there a wright or wrong answer here?:confused:

 

Mea:)

 

There's never a "wright" answer. I agree.

[Tomcat33]

I'm just catching up on this thread, but offer this. If a child's parents work, this does not mean he cannot get all he needs from them. A child needs to be fed when he's hungry and have his other health and comfort needs attended to; be protected from harm; given freedom to explore, develop and express his true self... and be able to trust and know that he is loved unconditionally and he matters.

 

 

Ok I agree with that. Let me ask you this though.

 

Do you think a baby that gets all things from a nanny and part-time parents will turn out any differently than a baby that is given all those things directly from their parents?

[popey]

IMO there is not an across the board right or wrong answer to the question of wether a particular parent would do best by a particular child working or not.

 

On the matter of veiwing the choice to parent as a sacrafice ... ie: "no one notices", "no reciprocation"... etc... that's just not good for the child. How would you feel if you knew your SO regarded being your SO as a sacrafice?.... A "LIFE LONGE" ONE... rather than a role he chose becuase it is a role he wants.

[Tomcat33]

IMO there is not an across the board right or wrong answer to the question of wether a particular parent would do best by a particular child working or not.

 

 

I didn't ask you if it's right or wrong I asked you something different please read the question again if choose to answer it if not that's fine I understand you opt not to answer.

 

 

On the matter of veiwing the choice to parent as a sacrafice ... ie: "no one notices", "no reciprocation"... etc... that's just not good for the child. How would you feel if you knew your SO regarded being your SO as a sacrafice?.... A "LIFE LONGE" ONE... rather than a role he chose becuase it is a role he wants.

 

The fact of the matter is candy coat it is as you will but it IS a sacrifice, and as to the husband question both a man and woman sacrifices a lot of things to give up their freedom to spend the rest of their lives with someone but there are also a lot of rewards so whether you want to admit to yourself or not having a child is a form of sacrifice you do have to give up a lot to become a parent.

[popey]

I didn't ask you if it's right or wrong I asked you something different please read the question again if choose to answer it if not that's fine I understand you opt not to answer. .

 

I didnt write this in response to YOUR question. I didnt even see your question yet when i wrote this. I was responding to Mea. To answer your question, I think that all different life experiences can affect different results. I do not think that a child who has his needs met by his parents along with others will have less of a chance for healthy development than one whose life did not involve others. Just like I don't think there is harm caused by a child having older siblings or grandparents in the home and participating in his development, so long as these people treat him well and his parents still relate with him as I described before.

 

The fact of the matter is candy coat it is as you will but it IS a sacrifice, and as to the husband question both a man and woman sacrifices a lot of things to give up their freedom to spend the rest of their lives with someone but there are also a lot of rewards so whether you want to admit to yourself or not having a child is a form of sacrifice you do have to give up a lot to become a parent.

 

This comment makes it clear that there is no point in discussing further. You have decided that your opinion is "the fact of the matter" and mine is "candy coating". It seems you cannot comprehend that my fact of the matter is that I don't view all choices as sacrafice.

[Touche]

I don't view all choices as sacrafice.

 

I don't either. But I do view them as sacrifices.

[Tomcat33]

I didnt write this in response to YOUR question. I didnt even see your question yet when i wrote this. I was responding to Mea.

 

 

Sorry I thought you were since the second part was directed at what we were discussing. My bad!

 

 

To answer your question, I think that all different life experiences can affect different results. I do not think that a child who has his needs met by his parents along with others will have less of a chance for healthy development than one whose life did not involve others. Just like I don't think there is harm caused by a child having older siblings or grandparents in the home and participating in his development, so long as these people treat him well and his parents still relate with him as I described before.

 

Yeah but again that's not what I asked, I asked about a nanny and part time parents not siblings and grandparents.

It's ok I get where you stand on this.

 

 

This comment makes it clear that there is no point in discussing further. You have decided that your opinion is "the fact of the matter" and mine is "candy coating". It seems you cannot comprehend that my fact of the matter is that I don't view all choices as sacrifice.

 

That's fine neither do I, I never said ALL choices are sacrifice I did say that parenting as well as devoting your life to someone romantically (since you gave the example of the husband being there out of sacrifice) does entail a certain level of sacrifice since we do give up things for those we love and care about. I feel that wether you outwardly express that or not there is a certain level of "adjustment" if you will, that needs to happen. Perhaps "sacrifice" is too intense of a word but it captures the essence of what people have been trying to say.

[marlena]

While it is admirable to want to teach children to be "precocious", some people carry this desire, dare I say, at times fixation, to an extreme that it is detrimental to the child's overall mental and emotional state. I've seen parents do this over and over again in their effort to prove to the world that their child is a genius. While they are determined to do this, their child suffers great stress in its effort to live up to the impossibly high standards that their parents have set for them. Motivating your child to learn more is not the same as pressing your child to accomplish feats of intelligence that are not on a par with natural child development.

 

Children who are pushed to all lengths to "perform" often demonstrate symptoms of extreme stress, nervousness,frustration and anger if not immediately definitely by the time they are 5 or 6. It is important in my opinion to let nature take its own course and allow the child to learn things at an age appropriate time. It's a fine line that separates teaching a children to love knowledge by stimulating its curiosity about the world around him/her and another thing altogether to force it to perform mental tasks that are way beyond its years.

 

A child should be allowed to be a child after all.

[Tomcat33]

I couldn't agree with you MORE Marlena. There has to be a balance.

 

A child could be plopped infront of the tv for 2 hours watching pretaped Teletubbies or In the Night Garden, while the mom/parents are off doing their own thing OR she could take an hour out of the day to sit with the baby and stimulate their brains and interest through learning. I know I would without a shadow of a doubt pick and hour of stimulating learning where the baby actually gets excited over what they are watching on tv and learning VS an hour of mind numbing globs that turn their little brains into mush.

[marlena]

Yes, it's true. I see it happen all the time. Parents come to me all stressed out and anxious not about their child's overall performance in class but about whether or not their genius child is excelling above all other children in his/herclass. They boast about their child's ability to read, do math, play the piano at a very early age. I kid you not. This happens. They are so wrapped up in themselves that they are impervious to the fact that they are relaying their stress and anxiety onto their child who is not equipped to deal with this type of pressure and shouldn't have to, of course.

 

It is so sad really. These kids are often sad, anti-social, depressed or a bundle of nerves. I want to tell them to back off and let the child enjoy its childhood, carefree and stress-free, to let it go through the normal learning stages. It's one thing to give a child a slight nudge in the right direction and another thing to burden them at such a tender age with so much responsibilty and impossible demands.

 

Personally, I think it is an ego thing with them. They think that producing a precocious child reflects on them, on their own intelligence and parenting skills.

 

Like I said, sad, really sad. Sometimes I feel like taking these kids home with me just to watch cartoons, play silly games and feast on cookies and icecream.

[Tomcat33]

So are you a teacher Mar? I bet you see it all. I totally know what you are saying and I agree with your entire post.

 

I was going to post about that earlier. One of the kids I was talking about in my earlier posts in this thread with the working moms, the mom is super ambitious money-wise but in a bad way, has to have the million dollar house, (which they TOTALLY can't afford) has to have not one but 2 SUVs has to send her kids to the BEST schools, anyway her girl is 3.5 and she has a live in nanny to look after the kids. This is one of the other temperamental kids we see when I go to family outings she is a friend of a distant relative. She sends the girl to swimming lessons on monday, piano on tuesday, ballet the next day and Chinese lessons the other, on the off days she hangs out with the nanny because "mom" is even more exhausted than daughter from all the running around, and the little girl is changing so much every time i see her. She used to be really cute and docile happy little girl while mom was at home and things were different no million dollar house or nanny, the husband makes more than enough money and she decided to get hear real estate license which is fine but she is 27 not like she doesn't have a few years to spare until the girl is a little older and now the kid she is turning into a little attention seeking needy monster. I TOTALLY see what you are discribing in this girl.

 

Why can't you let the parents know? Why can't you give your professional word of advice to them? I know no parent wants to hear they are doing a bad job but when outsiders are seeing the negative changes in a child and how they socialize because of this I think it's fair to reach out, no?