Dammit dammit dammit dammit dammit dammit dammit

[KismetGirl]

Kismet, when you've had enough of being the OW and getting table scraps, being treated like second fiddle over and over and over again, you'll wake up and walk away. Sadly, you still want him and something in you hasn't snapped yet - You haven't reached your ENOUGH is ENOUGH boiling point..Maybe you need to go through more heartache, more rides on the rollercoaster to finally get him out of your blood, I don't know...But just keep in mind that YOU can end it at anytime. Noone's holding a gun to your head, (MM certainly isn't, he just knows what buttons to push with you so you'll cave) so when you've had enough, just end it. Tell him to buzz off, ignore him and go on with your life... I mean, for a while you connected with someone else! Actually saw potiental in a single guy, but all that is erased because of the recent action between you and the MM.

 

If you want out, get counselling to help you get stronger, to help find "you" again. The person you were BEFORE the MM ever entered your life.

 

PS Thanks mino

 

Sometimes Im not sure who i was before MM entered my life anymore. He's affected me so much that I wonder what I would have been like if I'd never met him. It was SO nice when I was dating that other guy. To have someone that liked me so much and was at least theoretically available, even if ended up not working out, it was balanced in the beginning. He liked me, I liked him, no sneaking around, no hiding. Christ, he lived in another country half the time and he still made the effort to fly over here to see me ever month for a few days.

 

One bad thing about me is that Im.....well, stubborn may not be the right word.....somwhere in between stubborn and stupid lol.....when it comes to relationships sometimes. Im so level headed with other aspects of my life. So responsible and trying to do the right thing, but here Im so weak. I hate that word, too. Weak. It's like, no matter how miserable it has made me I can't seem to turn away. It's like I am always strong enough to just hold onto my sanity by a little itty-bitty thread, and that thread keeps me from hitting that rockbottom, but I still dont reach it. I just hover right above it in this limbo.

 

I know everyone says "you have to love yourself first before you can love anyone else" and blah blah, but maybe Im one of those people who is just happier when they have someone of interest to them? I dont hate myself, I obviously have no issue with immodestly listing all my good qualities ;-) but I think Ive always been one of those chicks that was happier when she had someone that interested her around. Maybe because when I was a child I was kind of awkward and shy and didn't think I was that pretty, and then boom, one day I grow up, finish the puberty thing, and all of a sudden all the boys that didnt notice me in high school are now paying attention and telling me Im gorgeous and I just didnt believe it at first and dont think I ever got comfortable with believing it. I keep thinking that meeting someone else will be the only way I will ever really get away from MM. Dating that other guy was the only reason I stayed away from him for almost a year. We broke up and, boom, within a month I called MM up and we're having lunch as "friends". And we all know where that went, and here I am a year later in it again.

 

I guess now I should be worried what exactly "rockbottom" is supposed to be for me to even recognize it.

[KismetGirl]

I agree with the above but Kismet you won't buy this, will you?

 

In fact you have no real clue about their marriage - no one does - unless you're a fly on the wall in their house.

 

He certainly isn't acting like a man in love with his wife.

 

But so often these men discover how much they do love their wives when it's too late - usually on D-Day.

 

I agree with you that if you had met him earlier and it had been a straight competition between you and the wife (no kids) you would have been in with a good chance of being chosen.

 

But I can assure you he is not with her just because of the kids - marriage isn't black and white like that. They have a bond that you and he do not have. And it's not just having kids that created that bond. It is the day to day experiences of living together, building a home, the ups, the downs that have forged this bond.

 

You are only a small part of his life, the wife is the centre of his life.

 

Billie

 

I do agree with you. I was trying to find the right words to express how I see his relationship with his wife and couldn't quite get it out. I didn't want to say "friend" because that's not strong enough, but you are right also in that a man in love with his wife doesn't cheat on her for four years, especially not so soon into the marriage. And let me please remind everyone that he wasn't getting sex out of me for two years, so that definitely was not the reason he stayed in this with me for so long. We only started sleeping together a year ago or so....first couple of years was some fooling around, but mostly an EA. He'd pull me into his office and just hug me and bury his face in my neck and stand there without saying anything. Lots of kissing and touching in the office, the car, like teenagers sneaking around from their parents. At the risk of giving too much information, he was giving me way more...uh...."oral conversation" than I was giving him, and physically that was the furthest it was going back then. I was willing to go further, but he always felt guilty, and I know he still feels guilty about it now, he's always had obvious guilt issues hese four years, even though I know most people on here think he doesnt. I've seen men without remorse cheat on their wives, as if they are entitled to having lovers. He's never acted like that. Im not saying he's perfect...

 

Ive never said he doesnt love his wife, I know he cares about her, they obviously have a bond of some kind, they're raising three children together, they've been married 7 years, he said he married her because she "felt like home", so he's obviously comfortable with her. I know he has sex with her fairly regularly (i finally asked, he said probably once a week on average), but you don't have to be in love with someone to have sex with them, that's pretty obvious. He's a man. If his wife wants to have sex, of course he'll take it. I was engaged to someone for three years and had sex with him all the time , probably almost every day, because, the shocker, I just really like sex, but I ended up not marrying the guy because I really just realized I was never IN love with him despite how close we were, or how well we got along, or how comfortable we might have been together. And we werent married yet, nor did we have kids ,or a mortgage, or all the other things, and it was still hard for me to break up with him because I'd gotten so comfortable with him. Took me ages to get the nerve to let him free to find someone else that would be in love with him. Relationships are, as you said, far from being black and white, and marriages moreso, and families even moreso than that. I dont expect that I could be the center of his life right now. If I was, that would make him a pretty crappy father. To be honest, he's sticking to hsi responsibilities isn't he? He isn't ditching his family to come be with me, irrelevent of how he may or may not feel about me. He's sticking to his commitments....he just can't help bu indulge in me. Im his drug, he's my drug. W're just a couple of emotional drug addicts that can't seem to forget each other. *sigh*

[KismetGirl]

KG, some people have issues and will continue kicking someone who's down because it gives them satisfaction. Don't give them the satisfaction of rising to their bait - put them on ignore and let the mods handle their out-of-line comments. Responding will only earn you infractions, too.

 

Back on topic, I think it's obvious you're confused. You're far from done with this guy - you were gutted when he dumped you, hoped for some sign that he still cared - and now he's given it to you. That's in the plus column.

 

But he's still M, still unable / unwilling to give you the kind of R you want from him, still using you as a booty call and still has your heart in his grasp (and yes, that will condition your response - or ability to respond - to other guys, whether you want it to or not). That's in the negative column.

 

This A is feeding you in some ways, but starving you in others. Until you decide for your own reasons, and yours alone (not any arguments posted here, however articulate, will do that for you) that the negatives outweigh the positives, you won't be able to move on. Because, at core, you won't want to.

 

That's not said in judgment - it's merely an observation. You've compared your A with MM elsewhere in this thread to a drug addiction - and, like a drug addict needs to hit their own personal bottom before they're willing and able to leave the drugs behind, you have to reach your own point of no return. You're not there yet - there's still too much in this A for you, and there's still too much hope. Until that fades, you're not ready to leave it and there'll be many more dammits for you still to come.

 

You have good friends. Treasure them - they care for you. (((((hugs)))))

 

 

Thank you OWoman :-)

 

WildSoul mentioned some "ignore useer" function which i was unaware of, i i find it that will be a godsend. Some people on here, the bitterness just kills me with how they are relentless in their bullying.

 

but I digress...

 

I am very confused. everytime I see him Im convinced that that's it. That I'll never see him again. That it's REALLY over this time. That he REALLY means it this time. And then something like this happens and gives me some stupid hope that he still thinks about me as much as I think about him. That maybe by the time I finish med school he'd be more willing to leave his marriage. Stupid rationalizations that will get me no where.

 

I think it's not just pros and cons....I think I rationally know that the cons are really outweighing the pros in this situation right now. I think it's that the thought of him not being in my life anymore for some reason scares the hell out of me. He's been such a big part of my thoughts and emotions for almost the entire time I've been back in NY after finishing college. Saying "I'll never see him again" seems so...final. So ominous. Knowing that whenever he's at work he's never more then a few minutes away from where I live (and no, I can't move, lol, sorry, not even a financially acceptable option.).

I hate that he's just so....perfect. I know I know, he's not perfect, he's a cheating bastard and all that stuff. I mean, aside from the whole not being single thing, just as a man, he's the perfect image of everything I want in someone. His personality, intelligence, sense of humour, and maybe it sounds shallow, but I am so ridiculously physically attracted to him its dissapointing when I meet someone else that I dont have that part with. Ive said this before, but even my friends that hate him because of how ive been due to this affair always say "but damn, I will admit he is hot". AND he gets along well with everyone. My friends really wanted to dislike him because they knew he was married, and after meeting him they all admitted he was really cool and they wished he was single because we would have been so great together. And he doesn't even know how freaking hot he is. Argh! And he's just as attracted to me as I am to him. You could start a fire with the heat between us. He will sometimes just sit there tracing my whole body with his fingertips , looking at me like everything he touches is just perfect. It's intoxicating.

 

I wonder, do some people never reach that point where they break? I kind of fear that , too. That I'll be in some weird limbo forever. Im an idiot. Apologies.

[KismetGirl]

I almost did, but for two things....

 

I am not sure KG would take it as the humor I meant under the circumstances, and I would understand that,

 

plus...

 

I am not ready to read stories about ME here on LS just yet.

 

 

I may be going mad, but I still have a sense of humour James, don't worry :-) Must be why MM finds me so charming and irresistible. That and my fabulous derrière. Oh lala.

 

Fret not, I shall never again get involved with another MM. And I've requested all my friends to beat me on the head with a large, blunt object should I ever tell them ever again that I considered even fantasizing about another married guy ever again. What a bloody torture. I briefly dated a man once who was in the process of divorcing his wife and that was a pain in the ass enough as it was. Shoudl have learned my lesson then, but I guess I didn't! Went even further in the wrong direction and "dated" someone who wasn't even divorcing! Looks like when it comes to this bollocks my lessons are ignored way too often. I need someone to come beat some sense into me.

[KismetGirl]

Disagree. There is NO plus column. When he needs an ego boost and to get laid...he knows where to go. This does nothing for her. Still confused, still in pain, still clinging to false hope, still suffering. He knows this and preys upon it. And KG is to weak to pull away.

 

I just don't think she is well served by anything that is even reomtely close to "This has a chance".

 

 

 

Technically true. But it is at HIS choosing and her needs only get met when he has needs to be met. Otherwise, he goes back home and makes two more kids. Ugh. It satisfies him far more than her. And we all know he isn't hanging on to KG's every word or dissecting EVERY LITTLE THING LOOKING FOR HOPE. HE gets what HE needs and leaves.

 

Leaving KG twisting in the wind. I almost wonder if this SoB gets some sort of satisfaction or perverse validation knowing how he affects her. And she still clings.

 

Well, it wouldn't be a post of mine if I didn't say this - Tell the W!!!

 

There I said it - and it is still valid. And stop rolling your eyes KG.

 

Lol, not rolling my eyes jwi71. Me and you haven't always agreed but I tend to at least take to consideration most things said to me, with the exception of a few select people that really have nothing constructive to offer....

 

The only problem here is that...I WANT to tell his W. But I dont think I want to tell her for the right reasons. I feel like my motivation to tell her is all driven by revenge, and wanting him to hurt like I hurt, to have his world not be so perfect the way mine has been so emotionally tumultuous. And I envy his wife. Strange huh? I envy a woman whose husband has been cheating on her on and off for at least half the time she's been married, through the better part of two of her pregnancies. But at the end of the day she has his kids and his life and gets to sleep next to him at night and I envy that. And I feel like by telling her, the only motivation I have is to take it all away from her. And strangely, I don't want to be malicious to her. I tell myself that if only one of us can be happy with him, then it's better than both of us being miserable. I'll admit that part of me has selfish thoughts.....most people do have selfish thoughts. if he came to me tomorrow and said "Im divorcing my wife and want to be with you", I'd be lying if I said I wasn't thrilled. But he isn't saying that. And I honestly don't think he's going to cheat on her with anyone else. He hasn't been with anyone else but me and her in 7 years, his paranoia and guilt wouldn't even let him figure out how to fit another mistress into his life lol, trust me, he had hard enough time just with me. So I kind of just say, well, if I can't have him permanently, then I guess she should be able to live out her blissful ignorance. Let his kids have their dad full time at home, if that's how isn't going to be. Better than neither me nor her being with him, because Im pretty sure if I told her he'd hate me for it, and Im not sure I could handle that emotionally right now either.

 

Don't you think motivation behind an action is at least a little important? The fact that my telling his wife is driven only by revenge....that's not bad?

[Lucky_One]

Three kids? No - he won't be leaving her. The child support for the next decade will be enough to keep him there.

 

And you were having an affair with him while she was pregnant? Didn't that sort of skeeve you out to know for sure that he was having sex with her regularly, too?

[KismetGirl]

Three kids? No - he won't be leaving her. The child support for the next decade will be enough to keep him there.

 

And you were having an affair with him while she was pregnant? Didn't that sort of skeeve you out to know for sure that he was having sex with her regularly, too?

 

 

Skeeve me out? It bothered me, but I tried not to think about it. What was I supposed to say? I didn't want to give him up, but technically she has more right to be shagging him than I do, and me and him couldn't see each other more than once or twice a week. And if she offered him sex, I knew he woldn't refuse it. It's a weird situation. Not like some regular relationship where you demand fidelity. I mean, I was knowingly sleeping with someone who is married to someone else....I knew what i was getting into.

 

Did I like it, no. But I don't like alot of things about this situation and I keep putting up with it....sometimes i dont even know why anymore.

[KismetGirl]

Three kids? No - he won't be leaving her. The child support for the next decade will be enough to keep him there.

 

And you were having an affair with him while she was pregnant? Didn't that sort of skeeve you out to know for sure that he was having sex with her regularly, too?

 

 

PS- he couldnt afford child support and alimony even if he wanted to. She's a stay at home mom, and he took on a second job consulting in the same field he already works in to pay for everything. He bitches all the time about their finances. There's no way in hell he could afford to give his kids the same quality of life while trying to pay for two households....he is going crazy trying to pay for the big house they bought two years ago as it is.

[White Flower]

I'm jealous ! All my life I've been waiting for a lady to slip, flip mid air and land on my penis.

 

Funny stuff LsD!

 

KG,

 

One step at a time. When the pain is stronger than the joy, you'll get out.

[wildsoul]

Don't you think motivation behind an action is at least a little important? The fact that my telling his wife is driven only by revenge....that's not bad?

FWIW, I think motivation is very important. I agree with you that if revenge is part of the reason, than don't do it. To me, the only reason to tell is if the BW wants/needs to know. Otherwise, it seems to me that telling is yet another self-serving act, in addition to the betrayal.

[jj33]

KG unfortunately the burden falls on you to exercise restraint when you are emotionally ready to do so. He wants you as much as you want him, so even if he is saying we shouldnt do this, if you dont summon up the strength to say no, then you will find youself in bed with him again.

 

The only solution is NOT to see him at your place. If you have to give him more documents (??) then meet him somewhere. If they are business related then mail them to him. If you dont want to be faced with temptation you dont think you can resist, then dont allow yourself to be in situations where you are alone in your apt together.

 

Its the only way otherwise every time he comes over whether its just to talk or just to pick something up you will find yourself in the same place.

 

But dont beat yourself up about it. It happened. And yes you were high and giddy when you were out with your friends. Its the familiar cycle the high of spending the time together followed by the invetiable crash of the fact that things are the way they are.

 

Youve been doing this to yourself on and off for 4 years. If you are not in IC its something you may want to consider you need alot of support to steel yourself to get past this. As you say its just like the addicts you counsel.

 

And as for the great sex you dont know what is around the corner, once you get past this you can have great sex with someone else. It just doesnt seem plausible when you are stuck on him. Many of us grapple with the same thing. But you cant appreciate how much worse it is to be where you are slowly destroying your self esteem and your soul with the ups and downs of the A than it is to be on the other side, even if you still carry a torch for him in your heart. At least then you have a chance of moving on. Its going to take time so you are going to have to be patient and strong and not say this is worse than being with him. Its not in the long run.

 

I know others are saying tell the W but who will that help. You have to be ready to cut it off. Otherwise you will just have guilt on top of everything else. A scorched earth policy is not the best in my view.

[Mino]

Three kids? No - he won't be leaving her. The child support for the next decade will be enough to keep him there.

 

And you were having an affair with him while she was pregnant? Didn't that sort of skeeve you out to know for sure that he was having sex with her regularly, too?

thats your op... I had a coworker who had 5 children and husband left her for the ow... Never say never...

[whichwayisup]

Some MM do leave, but if they are leaving, they certainly don't play games and act selfish in the sense of doing NC, then showing up at someone's door - Having sex and then quickly leaving. Also, MM who leave their wives and kids for the OW do it as quickly as possible, they don't continue to have the A and live at home for X amount of years.

In Kis's situation, her MM doesn't seem to really WANT to leave his wife and kids. Seems he just wants Kismet on the side.

[marlena]

Also, MM who leave their wives and kids for the OW do it as quickly as possible, they don't continue to have the A and live at home for X amount of years.

 

 

This is my conclusion as well. The longer it drags out, the less likely they are to leave. That's the difference between a MM who is determined to get out of a marriage, no matter what, and a cake -eater.

[whichwayisup]

Also one has to look at the treatment during the process. Not everyone's situation is like GEL and her MM. He separated quickly and did everything she asked and needed him to do. Their affair wasn't hidden for long let alone dragged on and on like afew others around here.

[norajane]

Also one has to look at the treatment during the process. Not everyone's situation is like GEL and her MM. He separated quickly and did everything she asked and needed him to do. Their affair wasn't hidden for long let alone dragged on and on like afew others around here.

 

Well, let's not give GEL's MM so many gold stars. He lied to GEL for a year about being married in the first place - she had no idea he was married. And then after she knew and was OW for a while with him still not leaving his W, she had to break up with him for a while. I don't know how long that break-up lasted, but it was only THEN that he decided he wanted to get back together with GEL and started plans to leave his wife.

[GreenEyedLady]

Well, let's not give GEL's MM so many gold stars. He lied to GEL for a year about being married in the first place - she had no idea he was married. And then after she knew and was OW for a while with him still not leaving his W, she had to break up with him for a while. I don't know how long that break-up lasted, but it was only THEN that he decided he wanted to get back together with GEL and started plans to leave his wife.

 

Uhh, excuse me, I give him hella stars.

 

He number 1 realizes what he did and is trying to make amends for it. That's better than most MM.

 

Number 2, no one is perfect.

 

And number 3 I love him and forgive him. And isn't that what really matters?

 

GEL

[norajane]

Uhh, excuse me, I give him hella stars.

 

He number 1 realizes what he did and is trying to make amends for it. That's better than most MM.

 

Number 2, no one is perfect.

 

And number 3 I love him and forgive him. And isn't that what really matters?

 

GEL

 

Of course that matters. But it's misleading to others if your road to nirvana is characterized as smooth and hiccup free and fast, or that he left his wife all on his own without you having to make demands and even break-up with him before he acted.

[OWoman]

Of course that matters. But it's misleading to others if your road to nirvana is characterized as smooth and hiccup free and fast, or that he left his wife all on his own without you having to make demands and even break-up with him before he acted.

 

Ha! NO R is ever "smooth and hiccup free" - at least not here on planet earth where I live! Ironically, as Rs go, mine with MM has been one of the smoothest and most drama-free (yes, even despite his toxic W from hell) - which I ascribe not to his being M or anything like that, but to our both being older, having been through the R mill and being clear on what it is we want, what we're willing to compromise on and what is absolutely non-negotiable.

[KismetGirl]

yeah...........

[KismetGirl]

Out of curiousity, don't you think that a MM's age and stage in life have a huge impact on their decision to leave a marriage?

 

I think that someone who is young, with young children, and really just starting the whole family thing, is far less likely to upset the balance, and far less able to financially afford a divorce anyway, than someone who is in their 50's, with grown children.

 

My MM, for instance, is only 33 years old, with three children under the age of 5, with a brand new house that's the first one he ever bought in his life, immersed in raising a new family with strained finances. You don't think that someone in this situation is far less likely to leave, especially if he is not necessarily hating his wife, than someone who is 55, whose kids are grown and out of the house even? I think later in life their focus might be more on "ok, i raised my kids, now I need to determine if i want to live out my days with someone im not really in love with, or try my luck with someone I might be in love with", rather than someone like my MM who is really at the beginning of their family-life?

 

Just seems to me that you cannot really compare the two cases. Most cases I see on here when the MM left so easily to be with the OW, the people were older, maybe even the OW had been married once before. I haven't seen one case like mine with a young OW, with a very young MM, with very young kids, that the MM has readily left his marriage. Even in cases where the MM despised his W I dont think he'd leave right away, but in most cases its not a case of despising your wife now is it. It's a matter of realizing you married someone that, while you care about them, you really arent in love with them, but that is not usually enough for someone who is 33 years old, with three small kids and a new house to just up and leave...

 

Just my observation/opinion. Im sure there are people who will differ....

[KismetGirl]

PS- Oh, and of course, if a MM doesn't have any kids at all it's a whole other story. Then it's just a matter of the OW or the W, and I don't give a damn what anyone says, kids change EVERYTHING. They may not be the ONLY reason, but they are entirely the largest reason an MM will stick around.

[norajane]

PS- Oh, and of course, if a MM doesn't have any kids at all it's a whole other story. Then it's just a matter of the OW or the W, and I don't give a damn what anyone says, kids change EVERYTHING. They may not be the ONLY reason, but they are entirely the largest reason an MM will stick around.

 

Yes, it's quite interesting how MM in affairs are so extremely devoted to their children, even more so than all those other men with kids who get divorced. Perhaps in those other marriages it's the wives who want the divorce.

[KismetGirl]

Yes, it's quite interesting how MM in affairs are so extremely devoted to their children, even more so than all those other men with kids who get divorced. Perhaps in those other marriages it's the wives who want the divorce.

 

 

Oh come on now norajane, you and I both know that children of divorced parents can grow up perfectly fine and happy. My parents are divorced and my problems dont stem from their divorce. But when my parents got divorced I saw significantly less of my father, it's just logistics. He bought a house that was an hour away in the same city, and he wasnt there when we went to sleep at night or when we woke up in the morning. It's different. And I was already 13 when they divorced so it wasnt as bad, but he would have been even more upset if it had happened when me and my siblings were all little. Just because you can make the best of seeing your kids when you are divorced, doesnt mean its the same thing as when you are all living in the same household.

 

Haven't you ever avoided doing something because it seemed so difficult or hard, but then in reality it turned out not to be so bad once you got used to it? That's kind of how divorce is, but before you go through it it seems like a horrible thing, the destruction of your full-time fatherhood. How many MM's come on here admitting that they don't want to give up being a "full time father", resorting to seeing kids on weekends or whenever mom can bring them by. Its different, and you know it, and alot of MM are scared of that notion.

 

Im not saying that divorced fathers are less devoted than an MM who stays for the kids, that's not what I said at all. I said that fear of the unknown, and the scary notion that your kids won't love you as much because you aren't around full time, however illogical, is still a fear that keeps many men around. It might be very selfish , but their thinking is that they like sharing a house with their families and they don't want to be forced to find some crappy bachelor pad apartment after they worked so hard to buy that house, so they can have visitation rights. They dont want visitation rights, they want to live with their kids. I don't think that's so hard to understand, however misguided. You and I both know divorce isn't the end all be all to having a relationship with your children, but many MM don't see it that way.

[jj33]

KG there is something like a 50% divorce rate in the US. People leave at all stages of life with children without children. You need to believe whatever is going to get you past this. In your case your lover is telling you he is staying for the kids. That is his choice. Others might make a different choice.

 

No matter how many years it is, people dont leave unless they are really unhappy and feel leaving will be better than staying. When someone is 55 or 60 in a marriage that is not great but not a walking misery, and has kids and grandchildren as your guy might at that time, then he has a whole other set of issue to contend with. Longstanding extended family and social relationships, community ties, and a long friendship (if not more) and history with his spouse. They have raised children together gone through most every important life event together. There is a bond that is not easy to break absent real true unhappiness as opposed to not a romance but most other needs being met. And at that point there is a question of possibly having to support the W for the rest of their lives, whether they have sufficient retirement funds for both of them to live separately, the reasons for NOT leaving never end if someone is not 200% committed to leaving.

 

Many marriages are sexless. I would not want that for myself, you might not want that for yourself but many people stay for other reasons regardless of their age.

 

And men who choose cheating as a coping mechanism often have less reason to leave if they are not otherwise unhappy at home.

 

You need to take a step back with this. If he wanted to leave he would. There are marriages breaking up every day at an astounding rate. So what if they bought a big house, its typical when a marriage ends that the house is sold and both spouses live in smaller accomodations, sometimes the children go to day care and the W goes back to work. You may say he couldnt do that, but loads of people with far less money than he has do it - otherwise the divorce rate wouldnt be what it is.

 

Finances are a real issue in determining whether to divorce, but they are not an overwhelming obstacle to divorce for someone who really wants out of a marriage. He does not at this point. He made that clear when he said he had to stop seeing you because he was afraid he W would find out.

 

But that is not a reflection on you. You met him when he was already married. He already had a family. If you want to look at it as a choice between you and his W then back off really stay out of it and see what he does. He isnt going to do ANYTHING while you are still seeing him. Why should he? He has it all. And you cant wait 15 years until the children are older to see if perhaps he decides to leave then or if he has another reason for staying....

 

The problem is you dont have it all. You have heartache and the roller coaster. It would be one thing if you were able to cope with the A dynamic. But its tearing you apart. Its like your patients. You wont know that you have hit bottom with this until you do.

 

My heart goes out to you. After 4 years it must be very difficult to think of steeping back.

 

Maybe you are thinking out loud but you seem fixated on the idea that he would leave if he didnt have children. Maybe he would and maybe you need to drum it into your head that this has no future for at least 15 years in order to begin to detach. But there are no generalizations in these situations. No matter what they tell the OW it really comes down to just how unhappy they are and how they percieve their life would be after the divorce.