Dammit dammit dammit dammit dammit dammit dammit

[SerenityX2]

Kismet

 

Your "eventually" will never come about as long as you keep picking the scab open. You have to leave it alone for it to heal.

 

You should read and reread your last post. Nowhere in there does there sound like he "loves" you. It can't possibly make you feel good about yourself *if* the only reason you two get together again is b/c you're the one that re-establishes contact. What does that say about this whole mess? If he's that afraid of getting caught that he doesn't text or email, he's putting her first again.

 

You said he wanted out, you've danced this dance before, but what if it really is the end? Sometime this has to end, maybe he's figuring now before a D day and the fact that you two can't be together w/o it getting explosive proves that to him. So think long and hard how you may feel if this time he surprises and says no to meeting again. He may there are no guarantees in the A and you know that. Just b/c it's lasted so far doesn't mean it will go to infinity.

 

But really Kismet on your "upside" what is that? What if he does want to meet again after your persuasion? What does it tell you? If he loved you the way you wanted he wouldn't blow you off after your last encounter, he would have needed, wanted communication. You should be outraged that after all that intensity.....nothing.

 

I'm sorry for your pain....but you're prolonging the inevitable. If you don't stop this now, it's only going to get harder and you'll still wonder why you haven't healed....because you won't let you. YOU. He doesn't control that.

[xxxheartbrokenxxx]

Hi KG,

 

How are you feeling now?

 

Well I can totally understand how you both ended up giving into temptation and ended up having sex that day - if I was in your situation I would have been too weak to stop it and probably have done exactly the same even though I would have known deep down that doing so would cause me further pain and delay the healing process. So dont beat yourself up for making a mistake, you're only human!

 

But that feeling you get when theres that extreme chemistry between you, I know exactly what you mean and its almost as if that hour or so of intense pleasure is worth the awful comedown afterwards when reality sets in and he goes again...this time maybe for good.

 

We discussed this on a previous thread somewhere but I mentioned before that Im your age and have exactly the same problem with finding guys I fancy - I just never seem to like anyone! I'm usually repulsed by the ones who show me interest and unfortunately on rare occasions where I feel extreme chemistry with someone they either dont feel the same, are not available or have nothing to offer me. It's very frustrating and lonely, I'm absolutely fed up with it.

 

I've just turned 27 and after a very painful summer where the MM I was deeply in love with just abandoned me without a word of explanation I recently ended up sleeping with a friend who I have fallen for big time - but guess what? He isnt interested and is now avoiding me yet I'm still hoping he will change his mind. After the MM situation it would have been wonderful if I had got with this guy as I truly believed I could never love again after that, but this guy proved to me I can and its very sad that things didn't develop.

 

Because, like you - I find it so rare to have THAT chemistry with someone, you know where as well as wanting to rip their clothes off everytime you see them you also have common interests and finish each others sentences etc.

 

However it's good that you still accept dates even if you're not really that keen as it takes your mind off the MM and also boosts your confidence, with me I just can't be bothered to waste my time going on dates where I feel nothing for the guy, and they usually expect something in return if you get me - and I couldnt just sleep with a random person as that would just leave me cold - I have to have the emotional connection. I must be old fashioned haha!

 

If you read a thread of mine from a few weeks back I mentioned that the MM actually called me out of the blue recently after 4 months of NC (on his terms of course) to 'ask how I was' when really he was more than likely to be sugar coating the fact that he was hoping for a hook up. Well I played it cool on the phone and kept it totally non sexual even though he was making a few innuendos. Had he turned up on my doorstep it probably would have been a different story...

[awkward]

No, Im not trying to say he was suckered into having a family. He's always wanted kids, the house, the family unit. He loves this whole little perfect American dream he's set up for himself,but he's an idiot for continuing to add to it, because no one who is in love with their spouse bloody well cheats on them for FOUR years and then continues to admit that they WANT to cheat on them , but they are just worried they'll get caught and break up the family unit!!!!??

 

 

I disagree with this. I think men and women do it all the time. He can still love his wife and cheat on her. That just makes him selfish. Does he tell you that he doesn't love her and only stays for the kids? Does he tell you that he loves you? I know that is standard MM speak, but I am wondering if he followed the party line. If he didn't love his wife and he loved only you, he would leave. Sure it doesn't happen over night, but after four years it looks pretty clear.

 

He has already proven that he puts his needs above his wife and kids and even yours so it isn't too much of a leap to think that he would continue to do the same. One could make the same argument that if he truly loved you, he wouldn't have continued to have children with his wife. After all, he did have to tell you when his wife was pregnant again. I can't imagine how that made you feel.

 

He has even tried to convince you that he doesn't want the affair to continue. I can't do this, this isn't right, etc. Then he makes you look desperate when you beg him to be with you even if it is one last time. And we all know that isn't really the way it is. If he didn't want to cheat, he wouldn't. Is there a chance that maybe he got scared because of your feelings for him? Do you think he could be backing off because he is afraid that you will rock his world and tell his wife? Do you think he might come back again in 6 months or so when he feels that he can again use you until he gets spooked about your feelings?

 

I don't want to say much more because I know you are hurting. This man hurt you. I hope you close the door in his face the next time he comes calling whether it be tomorrow, nine months from now, or two years. Your list of qualities is impressive. You are intelligent and have a great future. Try not to get to caught up analyzing his motives for doing things. The only motive that matters is that he is selfish.

 

All you need is time. You will heal and your dreams will change. I'm sorry that you are hurting. You deserve so much more than this.

[NoIDidn't]

 

Well I can totally understand how you both ended up giving into temptation and ended up having sex that day - if I was in your situation I would have been too weak to stop it and probably have done exactly the same even though I would have known deep down that doing so would cause me further pain and delay the healing process. So dont beat yourself up for making a mistake, you're only human!

 

...

 

It's kind of hard to claim that one gave in to temptation when it was admitted that she actually was actively trying to seduce the man. It would seem that he was the one that gave in, not she.

 

But I do get what you were saying about the other stuff. It was definitely a mistake if you are going to feel bad about it the next day.

[Billie63]

One could make the same argument that if he truly loved you, he wouldn't have continued to have children with his wife. After all, he did have to tell you when his wife was pregnant again. I can't imagine how that made you feel.

 

This is so spot on and Kismet please please re-read this paragraph and keep reading it until it sinks in. You state that you don't believe a man who's in love with his wife can keep sleeping with you. But it works both ways. If he truly loves you (as you seem to think although he has not told you this sober) why is he sleeping with his wife once a week? Are you able to hazard a guess as to why he does?

 

I can also confirm that I have known men who are absolutely besotted with their wives go and have affairs - I don't understand it and it starts getting in the realms of trying to define what love really is. But it does happen, believe me.

[mrose2008]

KG I know it is hard but you will get through this...Make sure you do well on your exams and in your class ..No matter what you need to get your education finished, start healing and keeping no contact with this guy... You are welcome to IM on yahoo if you need too using hotandsexy3236...anytime..just to have someone to talk too

Please dont forget about my offer to stay either at my house or the lake house so you can get away....It might help you and I feel for you...hope you have a better day today..

[CAMAYPARK]

I just noticed something...and correct me if Im wrong here...

 

These "family guys" who cheat - you know, the ones with the kids, the career, the houses...stable, decent, nice men that cheat on their wives, the ones who say they arent completely happy yet will never leave...

 

Seem to be the same men that have an OW for YEARS. The same one. Clearly, they enjoy a stable realtionship. They arent serial cheaters, they dont want change...They wouldnt be cheating but....etc

 

I think I only just now fully and completely understood the defination of cake eater. These men truly want it all: the career, the kids with great teeth, the wife with the nice car, family vacations, and a girlfriend. All circling around...him.

 

2sure, you forgot something else, the wife who is a good mom, good looking W too

[CAMAYPARK]

I think that the family man that cheats, especially those that have been married for a very long time fear that they have so much more to lose.

1. the house

2. the comfortable environment called their home

3. wife there waiting

4. kids and their respect

5. possibility of shared family friends

6. MONEY

 

At the end of the day, these men are comfortable and more risk adverse. Change would upset their comfortable lifestyle, habits will have to be relearn. They will have to learn to live alone again. They will have to learn to live with another woman again. Make new "couples" friends again. A different route home after work each day:lmao:

[Trimmer]

At the end of the day, these men are comfortable and more risk adverse. Change would upset their comfortable lifestyle, habits will have to be relearn. They will have to learn to live alone again. They will have to learn to live with another woman again. Make new "couples" friends again. A different route home after work each day:lmao:

 

Ahhh... add another to the litany of excuses a MM will give to his OW as to why he can't leave his marriage: "I don't want to have to figure out a new way home from work..."

[jj33]

I think that the family man that cheats, especially those that have been married for a very long time fear that they have so much more to lose.

1. the house

2. the comfortable environment called their home

3. wife there waiting

4. kids and their respect

5. possibility of shared family friends

6. MONEY

 

 

That was my experience to a T. The person I was involved with was honest enough to admit that though he thought about leaving, when it came down to pulling the plug, he had no interest in changing his life. The lifestyle, issues with children and family and friends, and tho he did not mention it I am sure the finances were a factor.

 

Its textbook. Typically they stay in a situation that isnt meeting all their needs either they are staying because they do love their wives or they are invested in the broader life and lifestyle. And how many situations really meet ALL of someone's needs?

 

Lately when I have spoken to him he sounds more and more disenchanted with it all. Doesnt matter. Deep down I think he prefers being bored with it all to not having the choice of participating in it.

 

And I think that is the important for the OP to remember. The WS may express some dissatisfaction with aspects of their lives but most often its not meaningful the way the OP wants to believe it is. They are just blowing off steam to someone outside of their regular life. It doesnt mean they are thinking about packing their bags. Interestingly he is now envying my life. My freedom of choice to do what I want unbound by the demands of his life and lifestyle. When we were together xMM never expressed any dissatisfaction when we were together for fear that I would pull out a suitcase next time I came over and start packing for him. You're that unhappy? We can fix that...

 

Its really weird. After all this time I know his habits, seasonal events, the rhythm of his life, the names of the friends family etc. And finally it doesnt hurt to hear about it. I used to cringe when we were out with people (business) and he would mention things now I ask questions along with the others and hope he is enjoying himself. Funny enough he is not...

 

But that is the whole thing. Its HIS life. I existed on the fringes. Like the lucky quarter in his pocket. Even when I was physically present for certain things, I wasnt there as his romantic partner. And that makes all the difference.

 

KG I think its been the same for you. You have been a part of this man's life through the birth of several children, the purchase of a house etc. You have witnessed it all from the outside. You have been his oasis. But the problem is its a position outside of his regular life. And he has been very disciplined about maintaining his boundaries. It doesnt mean he doesnt love you, its just a compartmentalization that he engages in which makes it possible for him to love you and love his family and their life together.

 

No amount of intellecualizing can lessen the pain but I hope you are feeling better today. We havent heard from you hopefully you are studying and feeling stronger day by day.

[NoIDidn't]

I have a hard time figuring out what kind of "special" love a MM feels for his OW while in the affair.

 

I know that there are several kinds of love documented, but I'm starting to think that eros has subdivisions. Like he loves his W enough to have children with her and to actually have married her publicly. But his OW is his hot, wild thing or something. I don't mean to offend anyone, but this is how it is starting to seem. Its like these men, the ones that aren't leaving for whatever reasons, love what the OW does for them and don't feel that they have to do anything in return for her other than show up occasionally.

 

I really just don't get the dynamic. But I know enough to know that it isn't for me.

[KismetGirl]

2sure, you forgot something else, the wife who is a good mom, good looking W too

 

 

I'm way better looking than his W :-) At least let me enjoy THAT part. And the fact that Im a lot more professionally ambitious and probably more intelligent. *sigh* Not that she's ugly or stupid or anything. She's just kind of blah and normal. WHich isn't bad or anything. Comfort exists in normality, doesn't it. And that's what he always said he married her for....comfort and stuff. Which I find sad, but to each his own. Men like stability.

 

To be fair, Im probably alot smarter than MM too ;-) So that's at least one part of myself I'm always confidant in....

[NoIDidn't]

Nothing wrong with stability. Its certainly not an insult for a person to seek it out. One thing that you don't have in your affair is stability if he could just easily dump you one day, show up and have sex with you another day, and then not even call you again for days on end.

 

And I don't mean this as an insult at all, just something to think about. I know you don't want to end it. I doubt he does either, but he doesn't respect you. He would NEVER do the above to his W. He would NEVER do that to the mother of his children. What did you do that was so bad that he treats you like this other than agree to being his *mistress*?

[KismetGirl]

I have a hard time figuring out what kind of "special" love a MM feels for his OW while in the affair.

 

I know that there are several kinds of love documented, but I'm starting to think that eros has subdivisions. Like he loves his W enough to have children with her and to actually have married her publicly. But his OW is his hot, wild thing or something. I don't mean to offend anyone, but this is how it is starting to seem. Its like these men, the ones that aren't leaving for whatever reasons, love what the OW does for them and don't feel that they have to do anything in return for her other than show up occasionally.

 

I really just don't get the dynamic. But I know enough to know that it isn't for me.

 

Trust me, I never thought it was for me either. It isn't for me still, to be honest, but sometimes you feel stuck. I mean, it's like imagine being in an actual relationship with someone, boyfriend and girlfriend, husband and wife, whatever. And you know the relationship is going sour, and maybe it's really volatile and even bad for you, but for SOME reason you freaking love this person and can't let go of them. It's the same thing for me.

 

You think I don't know I deserve better and more? You think I liked seeing him go home to his wife after spending four hours making love to me and hanging out with me and kissing me and stroking my hair and lovingly staring at me....only to have to leave?

 

You can love more than one person at once, I think. I do believe he loves his wife. And I believe he loves me. I just think he loves us both in different ways and to be honest I think this fact, coupled with his inability (or subconscious refusal, whichever) to really acknowledge any of his emotions makes it confusing for him. He knew he felt guilty all this time, he almost got caught many times and he kept doing it. He would complain about how the affair had "taken years off [MM's] life in stress" with the whole double life, and still, he'd come back again and again. And it's not like he wasn't getting sex at home, his wife Im sure sleeps with him once or twice a week. So now he's had one of his before-the-holidays-almost-got-caught-twice-in-one-week fits of guilt and is ending things with me again. This isn't the first time he's done it. he relapsed last week when we ended up sleeping together again and while he can usually hold back from calling me for a few months if he really tries, I know that if I so much as let him hear my voice on the phone he'll melt and come over again. He'll "resist" verbally to make himself feel better about it, as if it's all my fault for being this total seductress, but he's 6'2" and I'm 5'6" and I can guarantee you that I don't put a gun to his head or force him to do anything he doesn't want to do. When he came upstairs last week after I specifically told him to STAY IN HIS CAR, he knew damn well what he wanted to happen, no matter what pathetic "We can't do this" laments he made, all while running his hand down my face, breast and stomach. Yep, reeeeeally resisted me there.

[KismetGirl]

Nothing wrong with stability. Its certainly not an insult for a person to seek it out. One thing that you don't have in your affair is stability if he could just easily dump you one day, show up and have sex with you another day, and then not even call you again for days on end.

 

And I don't mean this as an insult at all, just something to think about. I know you don't want to end it. I doubt he does either, but he doesn't respect you. He would NEVER do the above to his W. He would NEVER do that to the mother of his children. What did you do that was so bad that he treats you like this other than agree to being his *mistress*?

 

 

I think he feels bad about what he's been doing to his wife to be honest, and right now he's trying to make himself feel better about it, and he thinks that by not speaking to me he can better resist seeing me and , especially this time of year, he doesnt want to feel bad about it while the whole holiday thing goes on.

 

Im not saying its right how he's been acting. But I understand some of it. He has to contact me me soon. He's writing me a letter of recc for med school and I told him he had to have it to me by the middle of January, so its very possible he'll wait till after holidays to write it and email it to me to review before he prints it out. We'll see if he emails me, calls me, or makes an excuse to drop by again. I wouldn't be surprised in any of those events....guess we'll see.

 

The fact that last time I saw him he made that sarcastic/joke about how "guess I'll see you in nine months...." implies to me that he isn't so sure himself that he'll really stick to this NC this time around either. That maybe once the guilt has subsided and the fear of getting caught has subsided a bit, that he'll come crawling back again....just like he did last time.

[NoIDidn't]

The fact that last time I saw him he made that sarcastic/joke about how "guess I'll see you in nine months...." implies to me that he isn't so sure himself that he'll really stick to this NC this time around either. That maybe once the guilt has subsided and the fear of getting caught has subsided a bit, that he'll come crawling back again....just like he did last time.

 

What it says to me is that y'all had unprotected sex and he fears he may have gotten you pregnant - like his infrequent jaunts with his W have resulted in recent years.

 

No unprotected nookie!!!!

[KismetGirl]

That was my experience to a T. The person I was involved with was honest enough to admit that though he thought about leaving, when it came down to pulling the plug, he had no interest in changing his life. The lifestyle, issues with children and family and friends, and tho he did not mention it I am sure the finances were a factor.

 

Its textbook. Typically they stay in a situation that isnt meeting all their needs either they are staying because they do love their wives or they are invested in the broader life and lifestyle. And how many situations really meet ALL of someone's needs?

 

KG I think its been the same for you. You have been a part of this man's life through the birth of several children, the purchase of a house etc. You have witnessed it all from the outside. You have been his oasis. But the problem is its a position outside of his regular life. And he has been very disciplined about maintaining his boundaries. It doesnt mean he doesnt love you, its just a compartmentalization that he engages in which makes it possible for him to love you and love his family and their life together.

 

No amount of intellecualizing can lessen the pain but I hope you are feeling better today. We havent heard from you hopefully you are studying and feeling stronger day by day.

 

Hey JJ :-) Been meaning to respond. I do have a bad habit of trying to intellectualise everything....guess that's how I try to make myself feel better by trying to make it all make sense. Not sure if Im feeling much better. Not crying anymore which is a plus, but still thinking about him obsessively. I manage to forget for a while when I get really busy at work or if Im seeing family, but when Im alone it all rushes in. And I have been having increased anxiety lately, which has made me miss alot of work, which is affecting me financially, which sucks. I have two exams this week and have been trying to cram 400 pages of information in my head in like three days, which Ive done before but is by no means a fun thing to do lol. But right now Im tired and cant sleep nor study so thought I'd check out if anyone's written anything...

 

That's a point I've tried arguing so many times, JJ, RE: the whole stability of their life and then not wanting to upset the balance, and I agree. I mean, there ARE cases where a MM just doesn't love their W, or hates her, or they don't get along, but i think more often than not they are just really comfortable in the life they have and don't see it as worth it to uproot everything, give up the caring wife, the kids around all the time, the house, the comfort, the finances, the mutual friends, the respect of family and friends and co workers....there's alot lost in divorce. And he loves having kids, he always wanted more, and it seemed the natural progression, I would assume, to keep having them with his wife. Everyone else that knows him and me, and about the affair, seem to think that when his kids are in their teens is when it'll really hit him about how...disenchanted he really is by his marriage. For now I think he's pretty comfortable and most of the focus is on the kids and work.

 

I obviously have never been married, but I have been in serious relationships and those were hard enough to break up, and it usually wasn't because I didn't love or care about the guy, but had become so comfortable with them, and our "lifestyle" together, our mutual friends, social circles, my family loved them, etc etc, and I didn't want to hurt them so I dragged it out. To this day my little sister who is almost 20 years younger than me asks me all the time if I'm ever going to bring my ex-fiance around again. They all loved him and couldnt understand why I "threw away such a great relationship with a guy that would have done everyting for me". Well, that may have been true, but I wasn't IN love with the guy, I was never really excited to see him, it was sort of just.....comfortable. And that wasn't enough for me. Maybe Im stupid for that and will end up single forever because I keep looking for that spark I crave, but whatever, Im holding out hope it will happen when the time is right.

 

Im glad that you are at the point you can hear about his life, JJ, and be happy about your exMM. Im obviously no where near that point.....I see photos of him, his W, his kids on facebook all the time and it tortures me endlessly. But like a car accident, I cant help but look....such beautiful little children, and my god his daughter looks like a little, female version of him it's scary. I almost get a pang in my abdomen because Im almost sad I'll never share that bond with him. I may be very professionally ambitious but I also want a family someday, and he's the first man I ever met that I could have envisioned wanting that with.

 

It's weird in that Im not sure what sort of communication our future holds, if any. I used to joke around with him and ask him if he'd come to my wedding if I invited him and he would joke back that he'd come just to make sure I go through with it so that he couldn't be tempted by me anymore because I told him if I ever got married it would be because I didn't WANT to cheat on that person, ever. When his wife found that email from me a couple years ago, it had my full name in the return address, and Im sure she remembers my name (hell, if i was her, I'd never forget it). It didnt have any words in the body of the email, nothing like "hey MM, these are for you", it was just a few flirty and semi-naughty photos he'd asked me to send him just for fun, and he had denied it to her, saying that I sent them to him by accident, that I meant to send it to my boyfriend and clicked the wrong name on my address book, but I wonder really if he admitted to her at any point that maybe me and him had just been flirting, and just denied that it ever got physical. If that's the case, there's no way me and him could even be platonic friends with her knowledge, which makes me sad. I think the worst part of him ending things was thinking that maybe he'd really never ever be a part of my life again. It's such a strange notion, to imagine someone you care about so much as working a block from where you live, and driving by their car every day, and knowing they live 40 minutes away, and yet you can't speak or see each other. So odd. When he got back in touch with me after the first "NC" episode, I told him I would be content with just being friends if it meant we could see each other again, and I meant it. I didn't so much as touch him except for a quick peck on the cheek for months for fear that he'd run for the hills if he thought we were going to fall back into the affair. But he is the one that initiated the physical part of it again and back we were into the affair full force.

 

So, while my days can be busy, which helps me occasionally forget, if only for a little bit, about the pain, its not at all diminished yet. Don't know if anyone here has ever taken organic chemistry before, but two days is an unfathomably short amount of time to study and yet again Ive distracted myself to the point where that's what Ive done again. Good thing I have a superhero-like memorization capacity ;-) At least for a couple days. God knows I'll forget it all the moment the test is over. *sigh* Wish me luck this week...two exams and then Im done done done and basically just have to finish getting my application materials together and in within 5 months or so before i start going on interviews.

 

I wonder what next year will hold for me.....he's been a part of my life for four years and its hard to imagine it without him, but again, I don't even know if it's really over this time. All my friends have been so happy to hear he broke up with me. They're sad Im upset of course, but they've all hated seeing me so miserable over him and have said the same things youve all told me here about how I deserved better.

 

Thank you all for the posts, it does give me some solace to come on here and read and banter and even argue and ramble endlessly. Better than sitting on my couch making mysel depressed anyway which is what Ive otherwise done.

[KismetGirl]

What it says to me is that y'all had unprotected sex and he fears he may have gotten you pregnant - like his infrequent jaunts with his W have resulted in recent years.

 

No unprotected nookie!!!!

 

 

 

Ha! He has never even asked me if I was on birth control, strangely enough, though I always have been for the most part, barring a month here and there. But since I've been 17 years old I've generally always been on some hormonal birth control. I always wondered why he never bothered asking me. We stopped using condoms for a while cause I wasn't sleeping with anyone else in over a year, and he was obviously only with me and his wife for the past 7 years so the disease thing wasnt a concern.

 

 

The "nine months" comment , though, I do not think was in referance to him thinking he'd possibly gotten me prego. I had earlier that evening, after we'd finished having sex, and he was getting dressed, and he said something like "we really shouldn't let this happen again", and I said "ok", but I guess I had one of those skeptical smiles on my face which made him further say "You think this is funny, dont you, that after I broke it off last week that Im here again" and I said "No, I dont think its funny, I just think that I miss you when you aren't here, and that apparently I can't seem to forget about you as easily as you'd like to think you can forget about me", to which he said "oh shut up, you never forgetting you has never been anything Im good at", to which I then said, "well, last time we had NC you managed to hold out for like nine months. That was pretty good restraint on your part".

 

And so thats what I think he was referring to when he said "i'll see you in nine months...." when I kissed him good bye. A sarcastic remark to my earlier reference which I took as an admission that he's very aware he isn't very good at keeping to his word about never seeing me again.

 

But it is a valid point that I wonder why he never made it a point to ever ask me if I was on the pill or anything like that when we started sleeping together without condoms. You think he wanted to risk getting me pregnant? I would imagine that would be a horrifying scenario for him....

[frannie]

I have a hard time figuring out what kind of "special" love a MM feels for his OW while in the affair.

 

I know that there are several kinds of love documented, but I'm starting to think that eros has subdivisions. Like he loves his W enough to have children with her and to actually have married her publicly. But his OW is his hot, wild thing or something. I don't mean to offend anyone, but this is how it is starting to seem. Its like these men, the ones that aren't leaving for whatever reasons, love what the OW does for them and don't feel that they have to do anything in return for her other than show up occasionally.

 

I really just don't get the dynamic. But I know enough to know that it isn't for me.

 

Nothing wrong with stability. Its certainly not an insult for a person to seek it out. One thing that you don't have in your affair is stability if he could just easily dump you one day, show up and have sex with you another day, and then not even call you again for days on end.

 

And I don't mean this as an insult at all, just something to think about. I know you don't want to end it. I doubt he does either, but he doesn't respect you. He would NEVER do the above to his W. He would NEVER do that to the mother of his children. What did you do that was so bad that he treats you like this other than agree to being his *mistress*?

 

I think that while some of this might apply to KG and her MM, they're only generalisations, and to my mind don't compare the OW with the BS, but the position of OW with the position of a W who is not being cheated on. Which is a completely different scenario.

 

I mean, how can you say that KG's MM is respecting his W? He might 'love her enough to have children with her', but he also disrespects the mother of his children by going sneaking around with someone else. If the OW receives no 'special love', then neither does the BS. She might have been married to him 'in public', but the reality of what she actually has is hidden from her. That's no priviledged position, not in my view.

 

And what stability does the BS have, if the OW has none? Only that which comes from being completely unaware that her life as she knows it could come crashing down in the most painful way imaginable any day.

 

I'm in no way arguing for the specialness and wonderfulness of being an OW. But to say that the BS is in some way priviledged and respected above the OW is questionable. The MM, by his actions, shows no real respect or honour to either woman in his life in my opinion.

[jj33]

No I Didnt - it can be difficult to understand the bond that can build up between 2 people in an affair. I have been out of the A for almost a year and a half now but MM and I are in contact most every day - at least a few times a week. There are often work related justifcations for us to be in touch but they are as much an excuse as anything else.

 

We dont NEED to be in touch for work several times a week. If it were purely a work thing we could do with being in touch only a few times a month if that at this point.

 

The thing is we have a very close bond. We are not crossing the line anymore but our bond has survived and thrived nonetheless.

 

There is no doubt that he loves me. And that he has not gotten involved with anyone else (if he were he wouldnt feel the need to be in such close touch with me all the time).

 

The fact that he doesnt want to change the life he has known for 40 years doesnt mean he doesnt love me, it just means the timing was off. He is already married to someone else.

 

That happens in life. You can meet someone that you might have preferred to build a life with and still decide not to abandon your marriage. He lives a rarified life. One that could not be duplicated with me. Love does not conquer all. So I understand why he is relulctant to leave. And indeed I would worry that if he did, he would have regrets as his life would be vastly vastly different.

 

I think it suits you to think that the love for the OW has to be tawdry by comparison. But that isnt always the case.

[pelicanpreacher]

Pride goeth before the fall....

 

I can finally see what your problem is as clearly as I see in minute detail all the nuances of the back of my hand in the light of day. Your academic requirements have created a monster in your competitive zeal to obtain your goals in every aspect of your life. You say that even though you have no idea why you love him and also know that the relationship is toxic at every level of your existence but I believe the hyper-vigillently competitive state that you find yourself in has bled over into your personal life to the extent that you want him just for the sake of winning. This is further endorsed by the fact that you definately feel that you are both smarter and better looking than his wife but also smarter than your MM as well.

 

You'd do well to remember the old biblical adage that you cannot faithfully serve two masters so attempting to justify that he loves both you and his wife, but in different ways, is only a way of assuaging your resignation to the fact that his wife shall remain number 1 in his life now and forever. Perhaps a refresher from the following ditty will help you to gain true perspective on what your situation is and will forever be so get your earbuds ready ...

.

Try to interpret it with an ear to how you fit into his life and future!

[KismetGirl]

Pride goeth before the fall....

 

I can finally see what your problem is as clearly as I see in minute detail all the nuances of the back of my hand in the light of day. Your academic requirements have created a monster in your competitive zeal to obtain your goals in every aspect of your life. You say that even though you have no idea why you love him and also know that the relationship is toxic at every level of your existence but I believe the hyper-vigillently competitive state that you find yourself in has bled over into your personal life to the extent that you want him just for the sake of winning. This is further endorsed by the fact that you definately feel that you are both smarter and better looking than his wife but also smarter than your MM as well.

 

You'd do well to remember the old biblical adage that you cannot faithfully serve two masters so attempting to justify that he loves both you and his wife, but in different ways, is only a way of assuaging your resignation to the fact that his wife shall remain number 1 in his life now and forever. Perhaps a refresher from the following ditty will help you to gain true perspective on what your situation is and will forever be so get your earbuds ready ...

.

Try to interpret it with an ear to how you fit into his life and future!

 

Despite the fact that you have a great vocabulary for expressing yourself, it doesn't make anything you've just said valid, sorry to say. And with all due respect to people who follow the bible, it's "adages" have nothing to do with me. Me and his wife aren't two masters he's trying to follow. We're two women he finds himself torn between.

 

Im not trying to compete for anything just for the sake of competing. I know Im better looking than her, you can ask anyone on the street and I guarantee you they will say by "normal" societal standard I would be considered the better looking one. I don't think there's a crime in bein conscious of yourself. If you saw Halle Berry or Angelina Jolie standing next to Jodie Foster, I guarantee you the majority would say the former are better looking. It's just societal prference. Sure, there are some who think Jodie Foster's cute, and she isn't UGLY, but she sure as hell isn't conventionally beautiful in any sense of the word. Just by way of example, not that Im saying Im Angelina Jolie, though I've got some similiar physical attributes :-). By saying I was smarter than her and MM I was takin a bit of a light stab at joking, so take it easy. I am a very intelligent person , and of this I am quite confident, but I wouldnt be in love with someone I genuinely thought was that much less intelligent than myself. I need an equal. And I don't know his wife personally well enough to have tested her intellectual capacity so saying I was smarter than her was a freaking joke. More professionally ambitious? Well, that one is sort of evident. Not to say her wanting to be a stay-at-home-mom makes her bad, but career isn't important for her, which is just fine for her.

 

Pelican, I know you mean well, but your posts are often like a competition to see how many multi-syllable words you can fit into one posting and psycho-babbling instead of really reading between the lines of what Im saying. When I say things like Im better looking or smarter than someone, Im trying to be sarcastic or make jokes in a time when I rarely find anything funny anymore and generally am down in the dumps. I can assure you I don't want him for the sake of winning, that is the least of it. I want him because I love him. It's pretty simple. Of all the things to overanalyze in this situation, that isn't one of them, it's got a pretty darn simple reasoning behind it. I love him. He happens to already be married to someone else. I have NEVER, not ONCE asked him to leave his marriage or wife for me because I want him to leave of his own accord, not because I won some contest and convinced him to leave. You CAN care for and love more than one person at the same time, and I think with him, that's his unfortunate case. Mine too it would seem. She wins out at the moment because they have longer bond, longer history, three small kids, he's the only one working, and they've just honestly already built a life together. There's a chance I'd be the W if I'd met him at the same time she did , but then again, when they met they were like 25 and I was still in my last year of high school so timing wouldnt really have worked out then anyway :-) Somehow the age gap is smaller at 26 and 34 than at 17 and 25 would have been.

 

cheers

[jj33]

Pelican you raise a very good point. KG it doesnt matter if you are better looking or more intelligent better educated or more ambitious. If those were the things he most valued in a wife, he would not have married his wife.

 

And the looks are superficial anyway, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. As gorgeous as someone might be what makes you really love them isnt their external beauty, its the little things about them that make them unique and their character.

 

Similarly ambition is a great quality but its not necessarily what someone looks for in a wife.

 

The sooner you stop making this a competition between you and the W, the sooner you will be able to detach from it.

 

If feeling like you are smarter than he is and (if this is how you see it) better than he is makes you feel better about the ending then hang onto that. But this competition is getting you nowhere. Its a game you play with yourself, its not something he is engaging in.

 

If he were to make a list of the reasons he would stay with his W or leave, I can practically guarantee you that those things wouldnt be on the list.

 

I'm sure you have other wonderful qualities that would make you a great mate for someone, but those arent the ones. And frankly you dont want someone who choose you because you are prettier than someone else. Its very superficial.

 

And with regard to ambition, they have obviously decided that she will stay home and take care of the children. There is no right or wrong way but anyone will tell you being a mother with a busy career is a massive juggling act. Having less income and someone at home is easier for the family unit in most cases. And she can support his ambition, but from what you say he is not financially ambitious either - otherwise doctors in NY make more than he does.

 

So it may be that as much as you enjoy each other's company, your values are very different. Have you ever considered that?

 

I could say the same things about xMMs wife and me. She is uneducated I have advanced degrees. She is attractive enough but not as pretty as I am etc etc. But that isnt the point.

 

The point is that they have married these woman, and have raised or are raising families with them. So clearly these women have qualities that these men value.

 

The fact that you feel you are clearly a superior match for him doesnt mean that he values the same things in the same way that you do. You might be a better match for other reasons but those that you mention are unlikely to hold water.

 

As I said above so long as you do the comparison you versus her, you are keeping yourself stuck in the momentum of "winning". But its like playing solitaire online. You are only playing against yourself. He isnt making the same comparisons.

 

If he were, he would have already or never married her in the first place.

[KismetGirl]

Pelican you raise a very good point. KG it doesnt matter if you are better looking or more intelligent better educated or more ambitious. If those were the things he most valued in a wife, he would not have married his wife.

 

And the looks are superficial anyway, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. As gorgeous as someone might be what makes you really love them isnt their external beauty, its the little things about them that make them unique and their character.

 

Similarly ambition is a great quality but its not necessarily what someone looks for in a wife.

 

The sooner you stop making this a competition between you and the W, the sooner you will be able to detach from it.

 

If feeling like you are smarter than he is and (if this is how you see it) better than he is makes you feel better about the ending then hang onto that. But this competition is getting you nowhere. Its a game you play with yourself, its not something he is engaging in.

 

If he were to make a list of the reasons he would stay with his W or leave, I can practically guarantee you that those things wouldnt be on the list.

 

I'm sure you have other wonderful qualities that would make you a great mate for someone, but those arent the ones. And frankly you dont want someone who choose you because you are prettier than someone else. Its very superficial.

 

And with regard to ambition, they have obviously decided that she will stay home and take care of the children. There is no right or wrong way but anyone will tell you being a mother with a busy career is a massive juggling act. Having less income and someone at home is easier for the family unit in most cases. And she can support his ambition, but from what you say he is not financially ambitious either - otherwise doctors in NY make more than he does.

 

So it may be that as much as you enjoy each other's company, your values are very different. Have you ever considered that?

 

I could say the same things about xMMs wife and me. She is uneducated I have advanced degrees. She is attractive enough but not as pretty as I am etc etc. But that isnt the point.

 

The point is that they have married these woman, and have raised or are raising families with them. So clearly these women have qualities that these men value.

 

The fact that you feel you are clearly a superior match for him doesnt mean that he values the same things in the same way that you do. You might be a better match for other reasons but those that you mention are unlikely to hold water.

 

As I said above so long as you do the comparison you versus her, you are keeping yourself stuck in the momentum of "winning". But its like playing solitaire online. You are only playing against yourself. He isnt making the same comparisons.

 

If he were, he would have already or never married her in the first place.

 

JJ

 

Se my post above, #196 or 195 or something, right after Pelican Preacher.

 

I said I was being somewhat facetious when I make the attractiveness or intelligence comments. Mostly its a joke to lighten up my own mood. If I thought those were the only important things to him, don't you think I would be wondering why he just didn't leave her already? Lol, come on please give me a little credit. Obviosuly there are other things important to him, and obviously he had to be attracted to her to marry her in the first place, but his attraction to me or to her is not what keeps him doing (or not doing) anything, I know that.

 

Damn, people can't be sarcastic or make jokes on Loveshack, I guess it doesn't transmit as well over the computer.....they always did tell me I was too sarcastic for my own good....

[KismetGirl]

PS- sorry to PelicanPreacher if I sounded harsh, but just got upset that you think I've made this into some sort of contest. it's not a contest. It's a situation where I feel like crap, and I thought my sarcasm was evident in that despite all my good qualities I still come second to her. So in actuality, I was sort of saying I suck. But thanks for furthering that observation that I do, indeed, possibly suck by saying I'd be so low as to think this is a contest. *sigh*