Dammit dammit dammit dammit dammit dammit dammit

[KismetGirl]

ugh, why am i even arguing about this anymore. everyone is right in some way. i suck. i'm the loser. maybe it is a contest. i guess i lost. crap. i didn't mean for it to be a contest. i thought i just fell in love with someone.

 

so, i apologize for anything good i said about myself.

 

i suck.

 

im not that smart.

 

im not that good looking.

 

im not that funny.

 

im a lonely, depressed, moronic effing idiot who has two exams this week and can't effing focus on sh*t.

 

Im not having a good day..... :-(

[KismetGirl]

PPS- I think I need to refrain from posting when Im having a depressed and mildly manic day like Im having today. I obviously sound like a total nutter. Sorry.

[pelicanpreacher]

 

She wins out at the moment because they have longer bond, longer history, three small kids, he's the only one working, and they've just honestly already built a life together. There's a chance I'd be the W if I'd met him at the same time she did , but then again, when they met they were like 25 and I was still in my last year of high school so timing wouldnt really have worked out then anyway :-) Somehow the age gap is smaller at 26 and 34 than at 17 and 25 would have been.....

 

 

KG, you really make me chuckle sometimes. I apologize if my choice of words creates more consternation than clarity for I'm only trying to be concise for the sake of delivering my messages without a lot of unnecessary prose. But anywho....

 

By dismissing those biblical adages you ignore thousands of years of knowledge accumulated observing the human condition. Since psychobabble wasn't even a concept at the inception of these writings I guess you'll just have to consider the source. When you have ever experienced a man's single minded unbidden affection and devotion to your love be sure to come back and tell me if you sense any difference between that and what you have now, deal?

 

It is said that beauty lies within the eyes of the beholder and though I agree that with all the images today's advertisement spews trying to define for the rest of us how the standards of conventional beauty should be determined I still don't know of any waif-like woman I find truly attractive at a size 0 (or less?) that society holds up as pinnacles of beauty. (but that's because I'm a full red blooded heterosexual man who can't even click his mind over to fantasizing about sex with women who look like prebubescent girls or who are shaped like young boys) On that note I'll just say "to each his own" so give me a shapely and robust woman with a pretty face, a nice head of hair, and an inviting smile with nice thighs and @ss to keep me looking HARD, LOL! (all puns intended)

As far as falling in love goes though, I agree with you on issues of compatibily for there is only strife in being unequally yoked! (another biblical adage I guess that doesn't apply to you)

 

Although you maintain that you are merely being "jokingly sarcastic" when making comparisons between yourself and his wife the devil still lies in the details for where there is smoke there is fire and it is in your elaborations on the subject that " thou doth protest too loudly". (just reading between the lines)

 

As to your competitive zeal (I just can't help myself for my face is stretched into a Cheshire's grin) all I can say is ... curiouser and curiouser! The emboldened passages just screams competition, doesn't it? (I know ... I know ... I'm reading between the lines so I'll leave it alone )

[pelicanpreacher]

KG, you've nothing to apologize for. Your perspective puts you too close to the forest to see the trees which gives other posters the advantage of broadsight. You did, however, make me a bit paranoid which is why I agonized so long to articulate my latest post in the hopes of lightening your mood without appearing too verbose but, as I can see, in the time it took to formulate my deliberations an entire conversation of posts ensued. :lmao:

 

For the record ... you do not suck, you are brilliantly intelligent, you are breathtakingly beautiful, and you will make the right man's dreams come true and I swear to it. Though I cannot see the happiness that you forsee in a continued relationship with your MM it doesn't make me anymore right than it makes you anymore wrong in the final analysis for no-one can fortell the future.

 

Good luck!

[sb129]

When I was an OW, it WAS a competition, whether I was conscious of it or not.

 

I told myself that because I was better looking, more spontaneous, more creative etc etc then it only stood to reason that I would end up winning in the end.

 

It was only when the whole sorry mess was over (He left her for me, and in the end he wasn't that much of a prize) that I realised in another life she and I could have been really good friends, we had that much in common.

 

I still feel bad for being party to hurting her, even though once she was my sworn enemy. I don't give xMM many thoughts these days but I do wonder how she and her son are doing now and then.

 

 

Funny how things turn around. Your situation isn't that different really KG. You say it is different, and you have control over it, but your posts are pretty similar to what mine would have been like had I been a LS member while I was an OW.

 

And all through time, people have had affairs, and many of them seem to follow similar patterns- thats what PP was getting at I think.

[jj33]

KG Im sorry you are having a bad day. You are under a lot of stress. But when you are feeling stronger you might want to consider these things. Youve mentioned them a lot over the course of your posts.

 

No one is saying it makes you a bad person, but from everything you say, it does sound like you and MM may have different values/goals when it comes to marriage and family. After all he stays and continues to build the dream. Despite everything you seem to disregard this. A man who wants out doesnt keep having children etc etc.

 

You are still quite young in your career so you may or may not have seen this. There are lots of professional men who marry professional women but there are also lots who deliberately choose not to. They think its too much if both spouses have busy careers.

 

Very few of the men I know in my industry are married to women with careers that place high demands on their time. This gives the wives more time to look after the children and the demands of family life. Even those with grown children dont typically work full time.

 

And SB129 I know what you mean. I would never have described it as a competition at the time, but deep down I thought that because I was warmer, more open and cared about him far more than she does, that ultimately he would choose to be with me. He didnt. His ties to his life and lifestyle were the biggest factor. But the fact that I was prettier more educated or more ambitious was not something that I ever saw as a winning factor. If anything my ambition and the obligations that go with it would have been a drawback. She hardly works and is free to accompany him when necessary (and when she feels like it), if he had been with me, we would have had to juggle my committments and his. And to some people that is not a plus. They may admire it and respect it, but its not what they want at home.

[KismetGirl]

These have been the thoughts occupying my mind the last 16 hours that I've been sitting on my couch attempting to study 300 pages of organic chemistry. And in no particular order:

 

concerted reaction mechanisms

MM

MM

peptide bonding

carbohydrate evolution

Claissen condensations

MM

MM

MM

MM

MM's kids

MM's W

enamines and enolates

ionix structure and stabilization

alpha beta unsaturated carbonyl compounds

MM

MM

MM

MM

MM W

MM

MM

Acetoacetic Ester synthesis

MM

molecular orbital concepts

MM

alanine

glycine

disaccharides

MM

MM

eergy diagrams

bonding

antibonding

MM

MM

MM

MM

MM

MM

MM

MM

 

 

I hate him. Exam in T-minus 17 hours. Including time I need to sleep.

 

I hate him.

[sb129]

KG-

 

hating him is expending valuable energy that you could be using to study covalent bonds and whatnot. I did organic chem too, and I can't remember a damn thing about it. It was over ten years ago now though.

 

Listen-

You will KICK yourself if this affair affects your exams. You can recover from a broken heart, but a failed exam is a pain in the proverbial to retake at this stage of your training. (its a pain at any stage, but seeing as you are so close to the beginning, its not a good way to start)

 

He is NOT WORTH IT.

[KismetGirl]

KG-

 

hating him is expending valuable energy that you could be using to study covalent bonds and whatnot. I did organic chem too, and I can't remember a damn thing about it. It was over ten years ago now though.

 

Listen-

You will KICK yourself if this affair affects your exams. You can recover from a broken heart, but a failed exam is a pain in the proverbial to retake at this stage of your training. (its a pain at any stage, but seeing as you are so close to the beginning, its not a good way to start)

 

He is NOT WORTH IT.

 

its my last class. application to med school going in in five months. i took two years off after college before i decided to take the post-bacc thing, its been two years of working my ass off and its my last exam and final this week before im done and can take the MCAT and this m*******r is filling up my entire head and its driving my literally to the verge of madness.

 

Its conveient i have mass memorization capacity but i know im not going to do as well as i could tomorrow. physically impossible to remember every little detail....and after sitting here 16 hours straight i feel like going a little koo koo to be honest.....

[sb129]

So take a break. You will hate him even more if he messes up your chances of getting into med school. You are too close to let it all fall down now.

 

Take a break, get some sleep, watch some crap TV or read a trashy novel/ magazine to help your brain switch off.

 

Most stuff I used to cram in the night before barely stayed in anyway but being tired and stressed out ALWAYS affected my performance.

You need to get some sleep.

(Krebs cycle? Nailed it in the exam, couldn't tell you one end from the other now)

[whichwayisup]

You will hate him even more if he messes up your chances of getting into med school. You are too close to let it all fall down now.

 

No, she'll hate herself more. HE isn't going to mess up her chances of getting into medical school, but her reactions TO him will. By putting the blame all on him makes Kis blameless and innocent of her own situation.

 

Do NC with him and focus on you and what's ahead in your own life. Be strong and dig down deep so you can work your tail off.

[sb129]

No, she'll hate herself more. HE isn't going to mess up her chances of getting into medical school, but her reactions TO him will. By putting the blame all on him makes Kis blameless and innocent of her own situation.

 

Do NC with him and focus on you and what's ahead in your own life. Be strong and dig down deep so you can work your tail off.

 

WWIU- you are absolutely right. He isn't controlling her actions, she is.

 

KG, you are tougher than that. Don't let some guy get the better of you- you can do it, you know you can.

He is a mere blip on the grand scale of what is going to be your life.

[KismetGirl]

WWIU- you are absolutely right. He isn't controlling her actions, she is.

 

KG, you are tougher than that. Don't let some guy get the better of you- you can do it, you know you can.

He is a mere blip on the grand scale of what is going to be your life.

 

 

*sigh* i know rationally that's right. But I go between feeling love for him (depression phase) and alternatively wanting to manually castrate him (anger). The latter part being brought on by thoughts of how it isnt fair that he isnt paying for any of this. How he walks away with nary a worry, goes back to his litle perfect family life when it suits him and im left here ruining myself mentally and struggling to keep it together.

 

it just doesn't seem fair, does it. Even if he does think about me, I doubt it's interfering with his life. Just not fair. He cheats on his wife for four years and nothing, no reppercussions. Christ, I couldn't even be the one to break it off with HIM when he wasn't ready, it was the other way around. I swear this is why i dont believe in the whole karma bulls**t. *sigh*

[KismetGirl]

No, she'll hate herself more. HE isn't going to mess up her chances of getting into medical school, but her reactions TO him will. By putting the blame all on him makes Kis blameless and innocent of her own situation.

 

Do NC with him and focus on you and what's ahead in your own life. Be strong and dig down deep so you can work your tail off.

 

 

trust me im trying. I work at a hospital from 630 in the morning every day, go to school afterwards, and have pretty much struggled with clinical depression since ive been 18 and ive still managed to pull off a 3.78 so far. Dont ask me how, because this semester Ive missed so much class its ridiculous, mostly due to being so depressed i didnt get out of bed. And studying? right. havent done any o that this semester either. somehow i still always pull thru bu i have a distinct feeling taht 3.78 is gonna go down just a lil' bit after this class....argh.

 

Let's hope i pull my sh** together for the MCAT on April 4th.....

 

Since our litle "relapse" last week we havent spoken to each other. It's been 10 days without contact, since the day before his birthday. I havent called him, emailed, nothing. Im hoping he doesnt forget the recc letter he's supposed to be writing me but other than that I wasnt planning on calling him. It's just still really hard to get him out of my head.

 

Physical NC is one thing....mentally separating? another thing entirely...

[sb129]

Life isn't fair. You are the only person in control of your destiny. And if you work hard and do well, then that is two fingers up to him anyways.

 

Whether or not he has repercussions- well, you may have to accept the fact that if there repercussions in his life, you may not ever know about them.

[jj33]

Dont think there arent repurcussions for him. Just as he doesnt know the extent to which this rips you apart you dont know how it impacts him.

 

If it didnt he wouldnt have needed to end it. You dont know if he cant sleep, is distracted at work or when he is with his family, finds he is irritable around people because the whole situation gets the better of him... its not like he is going to admit to any of that. But it does impact him on some level. Just read some of the WS posts in the infidelity section.

 

But I think there is something about living with a family that relies on you that often makes it easier to carry on. You cant sit in a muddle on your sofa all day depressed when you have children and spouse counting on you. But it doesnt mean the thoughts dont go chase themselves in your head.

 

Whatever happens. You had an impact on this man KG. Dont ever ever beat yourself up so badly you think you didnt. At least allow yourself that.

[jj33]

And of course good luck tomorrow. Get some sleep and Im sure you will do well. Youll look back on this when you are in medical school and think if I could do the exams when I was under all that stress with the ending of the A, I can do anything.

[pelicanpreacher]

And of course good luck tomorrow. Get some sleep and Im sure you will do well. Youll look back on this when you are in medical school and think if I could do the exams when I was under all that stress with the ending of the A, I can do anything.

 

Yep, it'll definately be a precursing testament to how well KG handles herself under pressure as a physician after dealing with all this the night before this exam! I'm pulling for you KG!

[NoIDidn't]

I mean, how can you say that KG's MM is respecting his W? He might 'love her enough to have children with her', but he also disrespects the mother of his children by going sneaking around with someone else. If the OW receives no 'special love', then neither does the BS. She might have been married to him 'in public', but the reality of what she actually has is hidden from her. That's no priviledged position, not in my view.

The MM, by his actions, shows no real respect or honour to either woman in his life in my opinion.

 

I knew I was going to be misunderstood, but I am surprised that you took it so hard Frannie.

 

He has sense enough to keep his marriage by hiding his disrespect to his W. He doesn't hide the disrespect that he (IMO) has shown KG. And, as a W, I would feel disrespected FOR the OW if my H were to have treated her like this guy is treating Kismet.

 

This doesn't have anything to do with privilege or not. Maybe you should check your triggers.

 

 

The fact that he doesnt want to change the life he has known for 40 years doesnt mean he doesnt love me, it just means the timing was off. He is already married to someone else.

 

....

 

I think it suits you to think that the love for the OW has to be tawdry by comparison. But that isnt always the case.

 

I really don't intend to be rude, but what are you trying to say? It "suits" me to believe blah blah blah? That was not called for.

 

You look at it through the lense of your affair. But it seems that what Kismet is dealing with is not the same as what you feel you had. Is it possible that I was responding based on her situation and not yours?

 

Do I think that Kismet's MM or xMM loves her? No, I don't. Doesn't it matter what I think? No, it doesn't. His situation is so common. Man marries, has children, and while the children are young, he cheats on his W because he's selfish and only can see past his own needs and desires.

 

Obviously I triggered you two in some way. Try not to take it out on me next time.

[jj33]

I have a hard time figuring out what kind of "special" love a MM feels for his OW while in the affair.

 

I know that there are several kinds of love documented, but I'm starting to think that eros has subdivisions. Like he loves his W enough to have children with her and to actually have married her publicly. But his OW is his hot, wild thing or something. I don't mean to offend anyone, but this is how it is starting to seem. Its like these men, the ones that aren't leaving for whatever reasons, love what the OW does for them and don't feel that they have to do anything in return for her other than show up occasionally.

 

I really just don't get the dynamic. But I know enough to know that it isn't for me.

 

This is what I was responding to not anything you said about KG. And yes based on that post I think it suits you to think that affairs where people dont leave are tawdry. Maybe you should check your triggers.

[pelicanpreacher]

Hey KG, how'd the test go?

[frannie]

Originally Posted by frannie I mean, how can you say that KG's MM is respecting his W? He might 'love her enough to have children with her', but he also disrespects the mother of his children by going sneaking around with someone else. If the OW receives no 'special love', then neither does the BS. She might have been married to him 'in public', but the reality of what she actually has is hidden from her. That's no priviledged position, not in my view.The MM, by his actions, shows no real respect or honour to either woman in his life in my opinion.

I knew I was going to be misunderstood' date=' but I am surprised that you took it so hard Frannie.He has sense enough to keep his marriage by hiding his disrespect to his W. He doesn't hide the disrespect that he (IMO) has shown KG. And, as a W, I would feel disrespected FOR the OW if my H were to have treated her like this guy is treating Kismet. This doesn't have anything to do with privilege or not. Maybe you should check your triggers.[/quote']I agree, he wouldn't get far by being honest with his W how he's disrespecting her. That doesn't make it any less disrespectful of him to be doing it. Maybe it could be said that it's more 'respectful' to be doing something you know someone wouldn't like behind their back, but in my opinion, its not. It just adds dishonesty to the disrespect.Hey, I know you won't like this, so I'm going to do it anyway and not tell you about it. Lovely.

[KismetGirl]

Hey KG, how'd the test go?

 

Blech. Barely passed, but that's to be expected. cant expect to memorize every detail in 300 pages of a book in one and a half days which is what my distracted self has reduced myself to doing lately. I thank my somewhat remaining intellect that I still do better than most of the class that studies for weeks, but still not good enough for me. It was the lowest grade Ive gotten on a test....well, ever, almost. He's really done a number on my focus these last couple months....

 

My final is in the morning and I'll do what I can do, not much else I can do but try with what I know (which at this point doesnt feel like much. Even after the exam I slapped myself for being so distracted that I overlooked the way some questions were worded entirely). It's my last class and Im done. MCAT exam in three months time and then fingers crossed I get interviews and accepted into at least one school in the area that I want.

 

I spoke to MM for about two seconds on the phone the other day. Hearing his voice crushes me but I couldnt help myself. Rather than email him to ask about my recc letter, I called him, and he always sounds the same on the phone when he's at work (doesn't matter how he feels, his voice is totally indifferent when he's at work, even when we were "together" and I knew things were going "well") so I can't really take it as an indication of anything. His biggest defense mechanism is to sound indifferent and make jokes about everything or anything remotely emotional anyway, he's always been that way. He cant' even say emotional things about his family. He can BE emotional, but the concept of verbalizing any of it is like, foreign to him. he also sounded indifferent last time I spoke to him two weeks ago and he ended up on my door step a day later.

 

Don't think that will happen this time though.....christmas next week, there's no way he's going to let himself see me in person and put temptation in his way right now and then go home and open presents with his kids next week. Im pretty sure of that. Next year who knows. Im trying hard not to think about him.....but its difficult, and that's an understatement. When someone is such a big part of your thoughts and life and then just.....goes away, it feels like a piece of me was ripped away and I guess I haven't gotten over that feeling yet.

 

Am supposed to go out with a couple girlfriends tomorrow after my exams are over , so maybe that will be good for me. We'll see, I guess. One day at a time, right....

[KismetGirl]

Life isn't fair. You are the only person in control of your destiny. And if you work hard and do well, then that is two fingers up to him anyways.

 

Whether or not he has repercussions- well, you may have to accept the fact that if there repercussions in his life, you may not ever know about them.

 

You are right, of course. I would love to be successful and happy and have my own family one day, and have him see and have HIM be the one lamenting for once. I don't intend to marry anyone unless Im 100% in love with them. I may be an OW.....but I don't do the cheating myself when Im with someone.

 

Strangely, MM asked me once if I'd continue to see him when and if I got married one day. I never answered him, but i was thinking that if I got married one day, I wouldn't be like him, I wouldn't WANT to cheat on my spouse. He got maried because she was "comfortable"......that's not enough for me. And maybe that'll be all the difference in how my and his relationships one day will differ.....again, time will tell, I guess

[pelicanpreacher]

Now your mind is coming full circle with this for you are reaching a point of introspection that will allow you to critically assess just what type of man he is, what type of relationship your have with him, and type of relationship (with whomever) you want in the future!

 

Questions..Questions? Answers..Answers!