Dammit dammit dammit dammit dammit dammit dammit

[Impudent Oyster]

 

After OW called it off, he left his wife less than a month later. He and OW are now married and happily so. He and his ex share joint custody.

 

.

 

So you actually know that guy?

 

I had heard that he existed but I thought it was urban legend.

[climbergirl]

So you actually know that guy?

 

I had heard that he existed but I thought it was urban legend.

 

Yes, my husband

[jj33]

KG youve been with him on and off for 4 years. Obviously he cares about you and I do believe he loves you. When I said reframe what I meant was I think its bigger than just the kids. Had he met you and his W at the same time it sounds like he would have chosen you, but he had already made a committment to be with someone else when he met you. It does work out in some cases but this guy seems committed to staying put and adding to the american dream, more children, bigger house etc.

 

I understand how difficult it is.

[KismetGirl]

I see. Another poor defenseless MM whose wife tricked him into having not one, not two but THREE children and then forced him to go and buy a big house for all those kids she decided to have all on her own. I bet she took advantage of him when he was drunk.

 

I hate when that happens.

 

 

No, Im not trying to say he was suckered into having a family. He's always wanted kids, the house, the family unit. He loves this whole little perfect American dream he's set up for himself, but he's an idiot for continuing to add to it, because no one who is in love with their spouse bloody well cheats on them for FOUR years and then continues to admit that they WANT to cheat on them , but they are just worried they'll get caught and break up the family unit!!!!??

 

He's an ass in some ways, I readily admit that. He should have thought about things when the affair first started and they didn't buy their house yet and they only had one child at that point, but he didn't. He kept going with both, being the "cake eater" if you will, which he had admitted to more than once. And everyone is right in some ways that Ive never quite made him choose, but at this point, I know what the choice would be. I just don't think that choice is because he is in love with his wife. I think it's because he's in love with his children, his family, his bond with his wife, and his overall comfort and stability in the life he's made for himself. And that is different than someone who says "I can't cheat on my wife because Im in love with her and don't want any other woman". That is not his reason for sporadically ending things with me. And most certainly not the reason when he starts making jokes about how "I guess I'll see you in nine months or something" after I sarcastically mention to him earlier about how the longest NC he managed was 9 months a couple years back.

 

Hell, it's not even a good time for me and him to be really together at this point in my life anyway. Im starting med school in what....18 months or something like that. Getiting my life on track, still wanting to hang out with my friends, etc. Im not even saying that at this moment in time I WANT to deal with what situation would arise should he D his W. In a way I have stupid hopes that in a few years when I'M more settled in my own life that he'd realize what he's been doing to himself and his family all these years and make a normal decision that he isn't going to go back on every few months like he does now. Because sometimes I honestly wonder what's going to happen in the future.

 

I may not be IN their home, but I know how family dynamics change over time. When all the kids are little , its the best. Mom and Dad are focusing all their attention on the babies, and its fun to watch them grow, and play with them, and its stressful when they are screaming and crying, and at the end of the day all the attention is kids , kids, kids, kids. It's not REALLY on the realtionship between husband and wife. So I wonder how they will be when the kids are older, teenagers, what have you, and become more independant, and they are MM and his W are forced to then focus more on their own relationship. I suppose I wonder if at that point he might have wondered if he would have been better off making changes earlier.

 

I dunno. I guess part of me was happy just having my weekly meetings with him for the time being, knowing that I had that to look forward to every week amidst all the other stresses I go through , and now that I dont really have that it's just hard to get past it.

 

I think last week was a fluke. Im not sure that he'll be by again anytime soon. I think he just had a moment of weakness because he happened to hear my voice and have an excuse to come by the same day he was at the office a block away from where I live, and he knew I was home. I suspect that if I don't make contact with him again for a while, it will be some time, if ever, that he comes by again. Im just not sure how strong I am to not call him again one day....Im always so tempted. Today I called his voicemail to see what his schedule is this week as he puts it on the voicemail every monday, and hung up before the beep came up, and hearing his voice just made me tingle all on its own. I should really probably not do that again..... *sigh*

[KismetGirl]

KG youve been with him on and off for 4 years. Obviously he cares about you and I do believe he loves you. When I said reframe what I meant was I think its bigger than just the kids. Had he met you and his W at the same time it sounds like he would have chosen you, but he had already made a committment to be with someone else when he met you. It does work out in some cases but this guy seems committed to staying put and adding to the american dream, more children, bigger house etc.

 

I understand how difficult it is.

 

 

I know JJ *sigh* I know its not *just* the kids. I know he loves the W and cares about her. My life wouldve been easier if she was some witch of a woman that he hated, but he doesnt hate her, and right now his life is too comfortable to risk messing it all up for anything or anyone, including me. He's emotionally retarded in many ways, very bad at addressing how he feels about people or situations. The only people he can easily express how he feels about is his children. I know he's not going to change his life around anytime soon.....if ever. I just don't know what to do anymore shy of giving myself a lobotomy to mentally get past him. Trying to avoid speaking to him and NC are all options but Ive gone almost a year without speaking to him before and the only reason I didn't think about MM every single day was because I'd luckily met some other guy to date relatively soon after me and MM broke up that time. Even then, when I got drunk on my birthday and I was IN London WITH the other guy that I liked very much, I remember checking my email when we got home from the bar just to see if MM remembered my birthday and he had. It's like I'll never be free of him....I swear that's how it seems sometimes.

 

Maybe med school will be good for me. I'll be so effing busy I probably wont have time to breathe, but thats stilla year and a half away from actually starting.....till then it just seems like every day is a struggle.

 

I don't know how you do it JJ, having to speak to your xMM because of work. I honestly dont know how you do it. I'm having a f**king nervous breakdown right now because I looked outmy window and I think I can see MM's car down the street cause he's probably at that close-by office today.

[KismetGirl]

PS- more food for thought on why it's not always seemingly a good or ideal option for a man to leave his marriage. Found this on another thread:

 

"Quote:

Originally Posted by jj33

As a friend of mine once said cheating is the coward's way out - or sometimes the selfish person's way out. Very very few situations in which the circumstances are so extenutating that divorce is not possible. Its always painful but its possible.

 

But on the other side of that, how many times do you read/hear that a man divorcing or 'leaving' or even 'abandoning' (!) his W and children is being selfish and cowardly?

 

I mean, he's damned if he does and damned if he doesn't, by certain sections of the public at least. That's not making excuses for cheating, just looking realistically at the 'selfish man' label."

 

 

Its true, no? MM leaves....and looks like the bad guy anyway. The ass. The abandoner of his children. And who wants to look like that......easier to remain a "secret" adulterer.....than an ass out in the open....

 

Anyway, just a thought.

[jj33]

I agree obviously as I wrote it. Its not an easy situation for them but it does say a lot about how they deal with conflict and how they are willing to decieve and betray the people they supposedly love most to get their needs met. And that is not easy for most of them either (tho some get an adrenalin rush from it or so its said...)

 

Its very complicated but the bottom line here is your needs arent being met. The trick is to put the focus back on you. Not you winning but you. Are you getting your needs met? No. Is this making you unhappy? Yes. At some point the cons will outweigh the pros and you will see your way to ending it.

[SerenityX2]

No, Im not trying to say he was suckered into having a family. He's always wanted kids, the house, the family unit. He loves this whole little perfect American dream he's set up for himself, but he's an idiot for continuing to add to it, because no one who is in love with their spouse bloody well cheats on them for FOUR years and then continues to admit that they WANT to cheat on them , but they are just worried they'll get caught and break up the family unit!!!!??

 

YOU think he's an idiot for adding to it. I'm sure he sees it different. He has exactly what he wants. Like I said he'd never disclose full truth to you....he has too much to lose with fun on the side, it'd make you feel worse. How would you feel if he said everything is great at home, but he just has different sexual escapades that he really enjoys with you and the whole fantasy break he gets, do you honestly think he's that stupid to tell you that? Because it's clear from his actions. Family game nights, why wouldn't he just make an excuse to get out of that stuff if he didn't really WANT to be there? The holidays that he won't be spending with you. Hell, has he even picked up the phone since your last romp? Real show of caring there Kismet....oh wait, I know he's so torn.

 

Why do you INSIST that his arrangement is not making him happy? Some guys are perfectly happy with their arrangement at home AND their bit on the side. These types of guys don't rationalize love the way you and others do. That's why your incessant harping of "if he loved her"....doesn't ring true...IT WORKS FOR HIM.

 

TRUE he doesn't love her in the way that he should, BUT he does love her enough to STAY WITH HER. It's ridiculous to assume what would happen in 5 years when he has given you NOTHING to think he'd leave her for you.

 

Kismet it's absolutely heartbreaking to watch you fall down this pit of despair, but it's a hell of your making. You want to continue this for another 1.5 before school as a diversiona and you think you'll keep your heart open and protected? You're fooling yourself.

 

You said you were stubborn, yep, you're proving that. You can lead a horse to water. I'm done, I give up.

 

Peace

[OWoman]

Of course I know that people don't in fact enter into an affair as a rational plan, or by analyzing the question "is this really what's best for me?"

 

:laugh: Some of us did, and the answer was clearly "yes"... :laugh:

 

To pick up on Frannie's point though, I don't think that MM's who "intend to leave" necessarily signal that through behaving any differently from those who don't - often because the "intent" may not be conscious, or acknowledged. But suddenly, they find themselves in a position where they HAVE to choose, and the chips fall one way or another, taking them by surprise as much as anyone else.

 

I've had MMs who agreed from the outset that they weren't going to leave their Ms - but still landed up doing so (and getting dumped for their pains); I've seen others who promised their OWs that they were working on leaving, but somehow never managed to do so. There are some who are open that they won't leave their Ms, and don't - often these are serial "cheats" who will move on to another OW when one tires of his lack of leaving, unless they find an OW who likes that set up and they settle into long term stability. And of course there are those who decide they're going to leave, communicate their intentions to OW and BW, and do so.

 

But I guess knowing which you have is a dark art. Hell, if the MM himself can't tell a lot of the time if he's actually going to leave or not, how is the OW supposed to know???

[SerenityX2]

One other thing.....then I'm done!

 

Please also see he is a conflict avoider. Most guys that engage in A's are. That's why they have them, easier to do that than fix things. If I've learned anything here, I've learned that.

 

Understand if you would have been the chosen one all those years ago, he'd still be doing this to you. I know you want to believe it's different, but this is how these guys deal with life. You honestly think in a normal r'ship that he'd treat you differently? Kismet you're kidding yourself, read any of these ladies' stories on here of how it's no easier after they left, now they see why the guy chose an A and how hard life is with them.

 

You've even admitted that he doesn't like to talk about this or that, or changes the subject, most likely that's his modus operandus. THAT'S who he is and is character, would you want that? Or would that cause you to beat your head against the steering wheel about different things?

 

Kismet there are decent guys out there....ones that will set you on fire as well as love and cherish you. You will never find him tied to this one, you can't you will always compare and fantasy will always beat the reality of what could be.

[OWoman]

Please also see he is a conflict avoider. Most guys that engage in A's are.

 

 

... or at least in the R arena. Many of them are very successful at managing conflict in other areas of their lives, like their professional lives, but yet, when it comes to matters of the heart . I have seen this so often... Instead of all those dumb things they teach at school, you'd think someone would have realised ages ago that this is the kind of life skill people actually need!

[jj33]

So true OW. I think a lot of them feel stuck (not that they are but they think they are). They feel like its a choice of evils and having an A is the best solution so they rationalize that they have done a great job of managing their conflicing needs...

 

But KG that still doesnt help you

[noreply110]

I came to this board as a BS to find understanding about the person my WS was having an affair with. I came with anger and hurt and wanted the vision in my head to become true in the pages of this board.

 

What I found surprised me. The Posters on this board really do love their Married Partners. And in some cases the MP loves them.

 

And in your case I think that's true. But there are so many red flags. One, he has added children. Two, he will not leave his W. Three, it has been FOUR years. Who loves their spouse and cheats on them for four years? The same person who loves their AP and doesn't leave their wife.

 

I am so sorry you are going through this. I think you are being played, but not by someone who is using you because they want to get laid. I believe your MM is torn. But he will never ever leave his wife. He has shown this to you over and over again, by leaving You. Sure he comes back, but not permanently. He doesn't stay for the kids. If he was, he would not have added more. He is staying because he loves his wife. I honestly think he loves you too, but its not enough. I think it would be easier to handle if he was just using you. It wouldn't hurt so much.

 

Good Luck.

[KismetGirl]

I came to this board as a BS to find understanding about the person my WS was having an affair with. I came with anger and hurt and wanted the vision in my head to become true in the pages of this board.

 

What I found surprised me. The Posters on this board really do love their Married Partners. And in some cases the MP loves them.

 

And in your case I think that's true. But there are so many red flags. One, he has added children. Two, he will not leave his W. Three, it has been FOUR years. Who loves their spouse and cheats on them for four years? The same person who loves their AP and doesn't leave their wife.

 

I am so sorry you are going through this. I think you are being played, but not by someone who is using you because they want to get laid. I believe your MM is torn. But he will never ever leave his wife. He has shown this to you over and over again, by leaving You. Sure he comes back, but not permanently. He doesn't stay for the kids. If he was, he would not have added more. He is staying because he loves his wife. I honestly think he loves you too, but its not enough. I think it would be easier to handle if he was just using you. It wouldn't hurt so much.

 

Good Luck.

 

Hi NoReply....welcome

 

Thank you for being understanding. Im sure you must be feeling alot of hurt and pain at your H's infidelity. I can't speak for other OW's, but I don't believe that most women become an OW really wanting to be one. Me personally, I found myself attracted to him, but of course had ruled out anything once I found out he was married. Then when he kissed me that night....this whole world of emotion opened up and it's like I lost control. I never wanted to hurt anyone, I've never held any ill will towards his wife, never bad mouthed her or said she was a bad person. But people aren't rational when it comes to love most of the time....

 

I think he is torn, in a way , but he hasn't reached a point where leaving his way of life would really benefit him. Most men value stability over the whole romantic notion of being with their "true love". Much more different for a woman, I think, which is why women are more apt to leave a marriage than a man is. I've heard this from countless MM's. Unless they are REALLY unhappy, which is not normally the case, they stay where they are. But an affair in itself is normally an indicication that SOMETHING is missing in the marriage. And usually, in the same way that men crave stability, they avoid conflict like you wouldn't believe and rather than facing potential marital problems head they find another outlet...like an affair.

 

When his two kids were conceived, I dont think either of us were in a state where we were in love yet. I cared about him alot and vice versa I think, but it hadn't reached the level it is now. I really fell in love with him over the last year more than I had in the years preceeding when it was just jumbled emotions that were hard to pinpoint.

 

I dont know what the OW is like in your case. She might not be a bad woman, she might be hurting too. Or she might be a witch, who knows. But if you were my MM's W, please believe I had never done anything with intent to hurt you. I've never once asked him to leave his W for me....I wouldnt want him to leave FOR me. I'd want him to leave because he isn't happy enough in his M anymore.

 

Relationships are never simple, are they. I hope you find the answers you are looking for and things work out...one way or another. Thank you for being one of the few BS's that are willing to look at both sides of the story. And really, at the end of the day.....isn't the MM or MW the one who is screwing with both of us, figuratively and literally?

[mrose2008]

As a teacher I can say this as it seems to be the consensus among the teachers I work with (and I have worked at 3 different schools)...Kids who have both parents in the home through the teenage years do better for the most part in school than children who come from divorced parents (99.9 percent of the time..You do have the exception)..Also my husband's parents are divorced but they got divorced when is was 26 and he says he is glad they waited till after he was done with school and college..Having both parents in the same house makes a difference you can tell yourself it doesn't but I see it all the time as a teacher..It does.....

One of my friends got involved with a married man and tried to convince him to leave his wife (by the time we got through with her she changed her mind and convinced him to stay with his wife) and young kids.The kids started having issues when he left for just the two short weeks he was gone. Once he was back his kids were back to being the way they were before he left..Having both parents in the home provides a child with a lot of stability which is very crucial to them esp early on...

I am currently pregnant with my first child (and only one) and yes I do love my husband but for the sake of argument if I wasn't I would stay married to him to provide my child with a stable home environment..My husband has a psychology degree and worked for 8yrs with troubled kids..A large percentage of them came from divorced homes and many of them told him that all they wanted was their parents to be back together...

(granted there are exceptions)..

 

Trust me when you are least expecting it you will find the right guy for you who deserves you.. I know that this is a hard period for you but just realize that you are providing those kids so much stability by having both parents in the household and be grateful for that..

Hey if you want a vacation or to get away feel free to come down to GA and use our lake house as right now I dont get on the lake right now and my husband hates the lake house so he never goes there..It is just sitting there..It is a 4bdrm 2ba and you would have it to yourself to relax..Hey I even have a few single male friends I could set you up with (jk)

[2sure]

I just noticed something...and correct me if Im wrong here...

 

These "family guys" who cheat - you know, the ones with the kids, the career, the houses...stable, decent, nice men that cheat on their wives, the ones who say they arent completely happy yet will never leave...

 

Seem to be the same men that have an OW for YEARS. The same one. Clearly, they enjoy a stable realtionship. They arent serial cheaters, they dont want change...They wouldnt be cheating but....etc

 

I think I only just now fully and completely understood the defination of cake eater. These men truly want it all: the career, the kids with great teeth, the wife with the nice car, family vacations, and a girlfriend. All circling around...him.

[Billie63]

I just noticed something...and correct me if Im wrong here...

 

These "family guys" who cheat - you know, the ones with the kids, the career, the houses...stable, decent, nice men that cheat on their wives, the ones who say they arent completely happy yet will never leave...

 

Seem to be the same men that have an OW for YEARS. The same one. Clearly, they enjoy a stable realtionship. They arent serial cheaters, they dont want change...They wouldnt be cheating but....etc

 

I think I only just now fully and completely understood the defination of cake eater. These men truly want it all: the career, the kids with great teeth, the wife with the nice car, family vacations, and a girlfriend. All circling around...him.

 

Absolutely agree with you. These guys are 10 a penny. When it comes down to it, they're very ordinary unexciting men who get their kicks out of sneaking around, creating an artificial high. That's their idea of having it all.

[jwi71]

KG,

 

Can you move near the Med School that accepted you? I mean now. Can you get away from this MM? Can you change your address, your email and all your phone numbers?

 

This MM is vile.

 

What can you DO to get away from him?

[White Flower]

No, I don't think that it has anything to do with age but rather with the MM's character. In fact it seems to me that the longer one is in a marriage, the more difficult it is to dissolve that marriage. There's more history, a stronger connection and a heightened sense of responsibilty. Another consideration is the fact that as people get older, they are less likely to make drastic,overwhelming changes in their life. The status quo, whatever it may be, gets very,very comfortable.

I must agree with Marlena here. I know of a MM who was much more willing to leave his M during his late 40s to early 50s and even had the support of one of his children. Years later, he is concerned about changing the status quo and of being responsible for leaving a wife without medical insurance nor the ability to find someone new at her age in his mind. Again, it is the perspective of the MM as well as how he perceives life around him.

[Dexter Morgan]

im accepting all people to start yelling at my idiocy......now. have fun.

 

nah, the idiocy itself should be punishment enough;)

[OWoman]

I came to this board as a BS to find understanding about the person my WS was having an affair with. I came with anger and hurt and wanted the vision in my head to become true in the pages of this board.

 

What I found surprised me. The Posters on this board really do love their Married Partners. And in some cases the MP loves them.

 

And in your case I think that's true. But there are so many red flags. One, he has added children. Two, he will not leave his W. Three, it has been FOUR years. Who loves their spouse and cheats on them for four years? The same person who loves their AP and doesn't leave their wife.

 

I am so sorry you are going through this. I think you are being played, but not by someone who is using you because they want to get laid. I believe your MM is torn. But he will never ever leave his wife. He has shown this to you over and over again, by leaving You. Sure he comes back, but not permanently. He doesn't stay for the kids. If he was, he would not have added more. He is staying because he loves his wife. I honestly think he loves you too, but its not enough. I think it would be easier to handle if he was just using you. It wouldn't hurt so much.

 

Good Luck.

 

NoReply, I was about to say, "I wish my MM had a nice, mature and generous BW like you" - and then I realised that if he had, he'd be with her and not with me. Oh well. Welcome anyway!

 

I do agree with you that KG's MM is torn. But how he resolves his issues without making them HER issues I'm not sure. He seems unwilling - or unable - to face up to really living out a decision and its consequences, and while KG is still hopeful of some something with him, that leaves her vulnerable to the ongoing fall-out.

[pelicanpreacher]

I just noticed something...and correct me if Im wrong here...

 

These "family guys" who cheat - you know, the ones with the kids, the career, the houses...stable, decent, nice men that cheat on their wives, the ones who say they arent completely happy yet will never leave...

 

Seem to be the same men that have an OW for YEARS. The same one. Clearly, they enjoy a stable realtionship. They arent serial cheaters, they dont want change...They wouldnt be cheating but....etc

 

I think I only just now fully and completely understood the defination of cake eater. These men truly want it all: the career, the kids with great teeth, the wife with the nice car, family vacations, and a girlfriend. All circling around...him.

 

:lmao::lmao:

[mrose2008]

KG just checking to see how you are doing and hope you are staying strong...

[KismetGirl]

KG just checking to see how you are doing and hope you are staying strong...

 

 

Thanks....been a bit depressed again. Ive been missing alot of work and school. Have an exam monday and a final three days after that that I've not begun to study for. I know tis is a stupid reason to ruin things but i cant help it. he couldn't have broken up with me at a worse time, and then this relapse last week didn't help.

 

He hasn't called or emailed me since then, but that's to be expected. He is supposed to be writing me a recc letter, so he has to get in touch at some point in the next couple of weeks to get it out to me, but not sure if he'll just go back to acting like he doesn't care, or if he'll try to really make physical contact again.

 

In a sick and sad way Im hoping I do see him again because I miss him so terribly.....all the pain he's caused me and I still just want to feel his arms around me again. *sigh*

 

Don't know what to do anymore. Im in IC, I also have a psychiatrist, but no person or medication can just take the emotional pain away. Even my psych said that....physical wounds take time to heal. Emotional wounds take even longer to heal, but eventually they do. I just don't know when my "eventuallly" will come about. It's been so long, four years, of this back and forth nonsense. Honestly, when Im so busy at work I try to stay focused and I forget about him for a few minutes here and there, but inevitably my thoughts always return to him, and sometimes they are near-deafening in their fortitude.

 

Guess there isn't much for me to do but try to get on with my life. I just know that Im still pretty weak, and Im afraid that I'll break the NC again, and since he's just as weak, just in a different way, there's a good chance if he gets any sort of inviation to see me he'll probably do it. He's good at holding out if he doesn't see me or hear me, but as soon as I make any kind of contact something seems to come of it. Which is exactly why I keep losing my grip and making contact. I need to try to distract myself with important things, I have soooo much to do to prepare for school and other stuff, but he takes up so much of my waking thoughts its awful.

 

I had the same dream again last night that I've had like, four times already in the past month, where in the dream Im pregnant with his baby, and in the dream Im always so happy, and I wake up and am almost dissapointed that its a dream, even though in reality I know rationally it would be a nightmare to deal with. Sad, huh?

[noreply110]

Kismet, you were doing so well! (I read old posts) This is just a set back, and you can get through it. This is exactly why you deserve someone who is only with you. I know you must be so tired of people telling you to move on, that he is not good for you, etc, but he is never going to leave. Some MM do, but they are not the one's who break it off with you.

 

OWoman, thank you. In a very weird way, this board helped me keep my sanity. Of course I get a little insane when I read posts that bash the BS, (thats when I step away from the keyboard) but the true depth of feelings the OW/OM have for their MM made my H betrayal seem less cheap. I don't know if that makes sense!

 

My H unfortantly sounds a lot like Kismet's MM (based on what the OW and I discussed). And this board helped me figure out that Both the OW and I deserved so much more. We only get one very short life. And I want mine to be filled with love and trust and no broken promises. As much as possible.

 

I know I am repeating this over and over, but it is truly what is most important. Everyone has an amount they will put up with. Its up to you to determine what you deserve in your life.

 

I do wish you well. I wish his wife peace also. (and I ask for forgiveness, my spelling is horrible!)