Should love be unconditional?

[fral945]

Should love between two people in a relationship be unconditional? Specifically I'm talking about spouse/SO relationships, not love as in love for family, friends, pets, etc.

 

My opinion is no. If you are treated poorly or physically abused by your spouse, why should you continue to love them? The idea of unconditional love seems to provide free reign for people to do whatever they want in a relationship without fear of any consequences. Unconditional love would be more suited to a parent/child relationship or maybe a person with an elderly or disabled parent. A situation where one side is actually somewhat helpless and cannot take care of themselves. But for two average, normal adults it seems unreasonable.

[Geishawhelk]

Then you don't understand Unconditional Love.

Unconditional Love doesn't mean being a walk-over or permitting people to get away with stuff.

Unconditional love means having Kindness, understanding and compassion for a person, inspite of all the faults, but that doesn't give them carte blanche to treat you like a doormat.

 

Example:

 

When a Tibetan Monk finally made it into Dharamsala after escaping from Tibet, he attended a news conference, where he recounted his experiences at the hands of his incarcerators.

he had undergone 14 years of some of the most unimagineable torture possible.

I'm not going to go into detail, suffice to say he was a physically broken man. It took him 6 weeks to travel 200km. Such was his infirmity.

When asked what, in all his time in prison, he had feared the most, he replied,

"The one thing I feared most was that I would lose my unconditional Love for those who jailed me."

 

If he can do it with his guards, we can do it with those we love.

No matter what the provocation to do otherwise.

[Trialbyfire]

There's no such thing as unconditional romantic love. If you love someone, you're going to want love returned, in whatever way that works for you.

 

If anyone brings up unrequited love, there's no such thing. That's obsessive infatuation and even then, you want them to love you back.

[Ronni_W]

, he replied, "The one thing I feared most was that I would lose my unconditional Love for those who jailed me."

An unconditionally perfect example, Geisha .

 

To add/clarify...his feelings of unconditional love for his captors didn't prompt him to stay captive in a situation that clearly was not best for him. And who knows what types of resistance he may have demonstrated during his incarceration (hunger strikes or whatever else Self can do, under such conditions)?

 

I do agree that we all have the capacity for it...just not so sure if it comes as easily to me as it does to more 'spiritually advanced' humans, though. But I'm working on it.

[Ronni_W]

There's no such thing as unconditional romantic love.

Yeah, there is, TBF -- I used to think there wasn't, but my b/f consistently demonstrates a most remarkable ability to love unconditionally...me, of course (being the 'romantic' side of it), and also many others in his life.

[Geishawhelk]

There's no such thing as unconditional romantic love.

 

I agree, Romantic love per se can't be unconditional. But Unconditional Love can include Romance.....

[carhill]

The love is offered unconditionally, but the relationship is conditioned upon mutual understanding, respect and empathy.

[Ronni_W]

, but the relationship is conditioned upon mutual understanding, respect and empathy.

At the same time, understanding, respect and empathy are the very underpinnings of unconditional love -- them's what enables the full accepting and allowing of the other, which is unconditional love.

[fral945]

The love is offered unconditionally, but the relationship is conditioned upon mutual understanding, respect and empathy.

 

I'll buy that explanation. So technically it is conditional.

[carhill]

Love, the emotion, is the gift. It is offered freely and without condition. The bond and the commitment, however, does have conditions, mutually agreed upon by the partners.

 

This is how I differentiate the explanation of relational love for a spouse/SO from that for a child (regardless of chronological age). I think it is this dynamic the OP was, through example, trying to differentiate.

 

In some extreme cases, love for a child can become conditional, and parents, as recipients of emotional and/or physical abuse, can and do exert conditions upon their love for the child and sometimes do terminate that relationship for cause. So, no panacea.

 

MC really helped me separate the psychology of caring, empathy and love from that of conditional loving relationships. It added much gray to my black and white world

[fral945]

Interesting. Thanks for your insight, carhill.

 

Since I've never been married, I haven't learned these things in MC yet.

[wisebutnotperfect]

I think that the idea of unconditional love needs to first start with the aspect of friendship. think of your very best friend or friends. do you place conditions on them in order to be their friend? I'm guessing probably not.. we allow our friends to be stupid, irresponsible etc. but overall love them just the same. The obvious disclaimer would be abuse in its many varieties. If a friend or lover is abusive emotionally, verbally, physically or treats us with a pure lack of respect how can we maintain a longterm relationship with them without losing respect for ouselves? Unconditional love is really way too broad and can be used an excuse for abusers but I do think that there is room for forgiveness in most situations. The choice is always in front of us whether we want to move on or hang with the friend or partner who has done us wrong.

[Geishawhelk]

Unconditional love means loving Unconditionally.

No Matter What.

 

It means holding that person in your heart, NO Matter What.

 

It means having a kind and compassionate foundation to your interaction with them, No Matter What.

Unconditional love ceases to be unconditional when we start defining boundaries, caveats and exceptions.

Once we do that, it is not Unconditional Love.

Unconditional Love over-rides everything, and is untouchable.

[You'reasian]

Should love between two people in a relationship be unconditional? Specifically I'm talking about spouse/SO relationships, not love as in love for family, friends, pets, etc.

 

My opinion is no. If you are treated poorly or physically abused by your spouse, why should you continue to love them? The idea of unconditional love seems to provide free reign for people to do whatever they want in a relationship without fear of any consequences. Unconditional love would be more suited to a parent/child relationship or maybe a person with an elderly or disabled parent. A situation where one side is actually somewhat helpless and cannot take care of themselves. But for two average, normal adults it seems unreasonable.

 

Good points. For example...

 

Should any woman expect to continue to love me if I were to continually cheat on her?

 

Absolutely not.

[RecordProducer]

If he can do it with his guards, we can do it with those we love.

No matter what the provocation to do otherwise.

We can't control our feeling; they are not actions. Love, anger, resentment, fear, hatred... those are all emotions that we can mentally alter, and in such way voluntarily force ourselves into a form of slavery and self-abuse. If you can persuade yourself to unconditionally love the man who, for example, sexually abused your little daughter(s), how can you be happy? What if he beat your child or mother or brother so severely that he disabled them? If he knows that you will love him anyway or not report him to the police, what would stop him to do it again and again? Or did you mean you would send him to jail but continue to love him unconditionally? Yeah, right. I love YOU unconditionally, Geisha. See, it's so easy.

 

True love comes naturally and with ease when someone is kind and good to us. Responding to evil behavior with unconditional love is tolerating and even endorsing the evil.

[Meaplus3]

I would define love in the same way the Corinthians did. I also believe that unconditional love does exist.

 

 

Love is patient, Love is kind,

It does not envy, it does not boast,

It is not proud, It is not rude,

It is not self-seeking,

It is not easily angered,

It keeps no record of wrongs.

 

Love does not delight in evil,

but rejoices with the truth.

 

Love always protects, always trusts,

always hopes, always perseveres.

 

Love bears all things, believes all things,

hopes all things, endures all things.

 

Love never ends

 

Corinthians 13 : 4 - 8

[Ronni_W]

In some extreme cases, love for a child can become conditional,

I think parents like to think that they have the capacity to love their children unconditionally, and that they consistently give their children unconditional love, and that it's only in extreme cases where that does not happen.

Responding to evil behavior with unconditional love is tolerating and even endorsing the evil.

Maybe it's a definition thing. "Unconditional love", to me, does not mean consistent love (as in, still loving the Child or Partner when s/he screws up and disappoints us.)

 

It doesn't endorse or tolerate bad behaviour, it just understands and accepts it -- there is no "disappointment" (a seeming fave way that parents use to guilt their kids, these days) -- there is just, "I don't understand your reasons but I do understand that you felt the need to do that, and I'm cool with your need...but here is how I expect to be treated, and/or this is how we do it within current traditions, laws and ethical boundaries."

 

It says, "I appreciate your right to do that but IF YOU WANT TO BE IN HARMONY WITH ME, then you'll need to not to that." (We allow the other to choose their own reality...doesn't mean we are going to stick around if their choices don't support our own needs and wants. Just means we don't nag and whine and cry and punish -- we leave the situation before we resort to such things.)

 

To me, there is an inherent spiritual element - allowing that we don't know other people's and kids' soul/life purpose and mission. Collectively, I don't think we're too capable of unconditional love, though. There doesn't need to have been extreme circumstances in our childhood. We're just not advanced enough, on the whole and in general, too stuck in getting what we want...and avoiding what we don't want.

[carhill]

The conundrum of the more evolved intermingling with the less evolved

 

I think parents like to think that they have the capacity to love their children unconditionally, and that they consistently give their children unconditional love, and that it's only in extreme cases where that does not happen.

 

Not being a parent, I'll surely defer to those who are, but do maintain, from life experience and my readings, that parents prioritize their children, even into adulthood, over most all other humans. I can't relate how many times in my dating life I heard "my children come first" or "my children are my life" and, boy, were they right. I think, by loving children this way, some parents think they'll not only guarantee their immortality, they'll also have some humans they can always count on receiving love from, given the transitory nature of conditional loving relationships these days. There is truth IMO about "having someone to take care of you in old age" or at least the concept for the impetus of it.

 

I know what it feels like to sacrifice my soul at the altar of another and it is something we're just not yet evolved enough to deal with, IMO. At least, I'm not anyway

[Ronni_W]

, from life experience and my readings, that parents prioritize their children, even into adulthood, over most all other humans.

Yes, of course they do. And the next priority is likely the spouse.

Still don't mean there's a whole lotta (unconditional) love going on, though .

 

But, is there anything MORE conditional than creating/loving 'you' now so that you'll immortalize me...AND take care of me, later?

[carhill]

Yeah, but in the cloud of genetic chemical bonding, they don't see it (the conditions) that way....

 

If love is prioritized, conditions are attached. Slippery slope rule

[Geishawhelk]

We can't control our feeling; they are not actions. Love, anger, resentment, fear, hatred... those are all emotions that we can mentally alter, and in such way voluntarily force ourselves into a form of slavery and self-abuse.

 

Which means that you do not love yourself Unconditionally.

You are willing to permit these emotions to rule your heart and mind, tinge your perceptions and prejudice your inner happiness.

I won't allow it.

If you can persuade yourself to unconditionally love the man who, for example, sexually abused your little daughter(s), how can you be happy? What if he beat your child or mother or brother so severely that he disabled them? If he knows that you will love him anyway or not report him to the police, what would stop him to do it again and again? Or did you mean you would send him to jail but continue to love him unconditionally?

 

Loving someone unconditionally does not put them above and beyond the Legal system.

Whatever wrong deeds a person does, they deserve the full weight of the Law to punish them, and prevent re-occurrence.

But to Love Unconditionally means to show Compassion, Loving Kindness and a generous spirit to someone even if they neither ask for it, nor seem to deserve it.

At one time, that person was inherently good.

Something happened to make them inherently bad.

 

That doesn't mean, they destroy that good aspect. It's still there. It's a question of loving it and understanding it.

 

Yeah, right. I love YOU unconditionally, Geisha. See, it's so easy.

 

You're right. It IS a lot easier than you think.

Just drop the hate.

It's self-destructive and prevents complete healing.

 

True love comes naturally and with ease when someone is kind and good to us. Responding to evil behavior with unconditional love is tolerating and even endorsing the evil.

 

You're talking about selective Love, not Unconditional Love.

WHen you can embrace the good and bad and accept "those two impostors, just the same", you will find it to be one of the most extraordinarily liberating sensations you will have ever felt.

It puts everything else into the shade.

 

[RecordProducer]

Geisha and Ronni,

 

You can't change the meaning of the word "conditional" to suit your way of loving and to be able to call it "uncoditional" love. The term unconditional means "no conditions" ie., regardless of the conditions, you still love them. You don't need to impose any condiitons in order to love them. You don't impose any "if's" such as "if you're a good child, I will love you." My sons could become serial killers and I will still love them equally. They would break my heart, but I would still have the same love for them because I am their mom and love them unconditionally. I feel the same for my parents except if they would intentioanlly harm my children (so there IS one condition under which I could stop loving them).

 

I can't say that for any other human being in this world that could love them no matter what. And let's forget the legal system; if your partner harms your children, would you still LOVE them?

 

Geisha, I think you have an even bigger problem defining the word "love." That monk said he loves his wrongdoers, but it's impossible. The human mind and heart are not designed to love in that way. You can feel compassion for someone who had killed and raped little children, but you LOVE them if they are not your son, father or brother?

[Geishawhelk]

Geisha and Ronni,

 

You can't change the meaning of the word "conditional" to suit your way of loving and to be able to call it "uncoditional" love. The term unconditional means "no conditions" ie., regardless of the conditions, you still love them. You don't need to impose any condiitons in order to love them. You don't impose any "if's" such as "if you're a good child, I will love you." My sons could become serial killers and I will still love them equally. They would break my heart, but I would still have the same love for them because I am their mom and love them unconditionally.

This is precisely what I mean about the term Unconditional.

 

I feel the same for my parents except if they would intentioanlly harm my children (so there IS one condition under which I could stop loving them).

And this is where you and I differ.

If you read my previous post, a criminal act does not stop me having Unconditional Love for someone.

But for you it does.

That's the only difference.

It has nothing to do with definition, it has everything to do with personal attitude.

 

I can't say that for any other human being in this world that could love them no matter what. And let's forget the legal system; if your partner harms your children, would you still LOVE them?

Yes, but not in the confined way in which you define Love.

My Love for them does not have confines.

My Morals and standards do.

But not my Love.

 

Geisha, I think you have an even bigger problem defining the word "love." That monk said he loves his wrongdoers, but it's impossible. The human mind and heart are not designed to love in that way.

 

Actually, they are.

The fact that we permit Anger, Hatred, resentment and Animosity to manifest is a block to that.

It's detrimental to our boundless capacity to embrace all, regardless.

 

You can feel compassion for someone who had killed and raped little children, but you LOVE them if they are not your son, father or brother?

 

You're the one with the problem seeing the possibilities, not I.

I know it's possible. You're the one in denial.

My definition is spot-on.

The limitations you're placing on Unconditional Love are your view, which I perceive as being limited.

Mine is Ok.

[Ronni_W]

Geisha and Ronni,

You can't change the meaning of the word "conditional" to suit your way of loving and to be able to call it "uncoditional" love. The term unconditional means "no conditions"

RP,

My dictionary agrees with your dictionary's definitions of "conditional" and "unconditional" .

And I'm NOT saying that I can love unconditionally (in the way that spiritual teachers define that)...but it is something to which I aspire.

 

I'm better at doing it than 5 and 10 years ago, but still feels like I may need many more lifetimes for me to master. However, that doesn't preclude me from having an intellectual understanding of the concept -- which, mine is pretty close to yours.

 

In the scenario of own parent harming own child, I would aspire to understanding and forgiving my parent -- have absolutely no idea if I'd be successful, or how successful I might be. But my lack of insight into that is because I haven't mastered the lesson of 'unconditional love' at this point in my evolution.

[Trialbyfire]

Perhaps there are people who can love or aspire to love unconditionally. I guess my perception comes from self and external analytics of people. I've yet to see people be able to do it effectively. I know I can't.

 

If I love someone romantically, my expectation is that they will return that love. If they don't, the tap gets turned off.