Should love be unconditional?

[Geishawhelk]

I think there is a certain amount of confusion, not with the definition of "Conditional" or "Unconditional" but about the term 'Love' we're using here.

 

The difficulty is that the word is soooo over-used.

 

If anyone ever really had a complete and accurate fix on it, and had nailed the global definition, we wouldn't need writers, artists, singers and poets to keep trying to do just that.....

 

When I speak of Lve being unconditional, I am implying the kind of Love that transcends the physical, relational, interactive, demonstrated love we have for one another as brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, parents and lovers.

I'm talking about the kind of love that doesn't see the 'who', it merely feels for the 'what'; and the 'what' is a fellow being, born in the same way we were, created in the same way we were. head, mind, two eyes, nose, mouth, body, everything.

 

Unconditional Love sees beyond the personal and seeks the innermost Spirit of the individual, even if at first glance we cannot believe it even exists.

Unconditional Love sees beyond the labels: I've given some of them, above..... brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, parents and lovers.

 

Go further, and consider the Boss, the neighbour, the paper delivery boy, the grocer, the cab driver, the doctor, the bank manager, the Lawyer, the road-sweep, the dentist, the shop assistant....

 

All these people are considered under different emotional brackets, and we love some, like others and are indifferent to most. Some, positively get on our nerves, to a lesser or greater degree.....

Some - we actively and wholeheartedly dislike.

 

But Unconditional love embraces all these people under the banner "Fellow Being".

 

I'm reminded of a poem:

"Loving the world to me's no chore:

My big problem is the guy next door!"

 

Familiarity breeds contempt.....

 

Unconditional Love does not consider a person's character, temperament, provenance, identity, gender, age, creed or deeds.

 

Unconditional Love sees only the same as you are.

 

And in order to love unconditionally, we have to include ourselves.

Completely, totally, Unconditionally.

[Geishawhelk]

And - *Ker-shplat!* the thread was killed......

[Trialbyfire]

It's been taken to a place where no man has gone before!

 

I can't personally fathom unconditional love. I can fathom caring enough to help strangers but that's as far as I'm willing to go.

[Geishawhelk]

Ok, good....

Let's take it a step further if I may....

 

You're driving down a road, and you witness a car accident.

You stop, and realise that the motorist in one car, has a badly gashed head, is disorientated, confused and needs attention.

You call the emergency services.

The other driver has gotten out off their car, and they're with someone else.

You are with the more injured person, and they are clearly distressed, but as you hold their hand, they begin to calm down.

You stay with the person, talking to them calmly, gently, reassuring them, comforting them.

Once the Emergency services get there, they deal with the injured driver, and as they wheel him towards the ambulance, he holds your hand and thanks you for your help. He really appreciates your kindness.

 

Feels good to have done what you did.....

 

You later discover that he was driving away from his house in a hurry, because he'd just beaten his wife so badly, he left her unconscious on the kitchen floor.

 

How does this make you feel?

Do you now wish you'd never helped him, or do you think, "It doesn't matter. I did what was right and helped someone who needed help."

 

I suspewct, the latter.

You may feel some anger towards him, and hope he gets punished for what he did.

Rightly so.

But hopefully, you don't regret your actions, and feel that what you did was absolutely right.

Which it was.

 

Unconditional Love means helping the car accident Victim even if you know all this before you help them.

 

Every single person we interact with, has some kind of history.

Some good, some bad.

Some so awful, you might be rivetted to the spot, so appalled might you be, if you did know it.

 

But we can't stop everyone and check, and double-check this.

 

So we must act on the assumption that this being needs all the help they can get.

 

This is how Mother Teresa managed.

She once said, she was credited with having helped over 600,000.

She denied this.

She said, all she did was help one person at a time.

Just one.

Just one,

just one,

just one.

 

And that is how Unconditional love bears blossom.

By loving one person at a time.

Just one.

Just one,

just one,

just one.

[Trialbyfire]

Unconditional Love means helping the car accident Victim even if you know all this before you help them.

See, this is what I can't and don't want to fathom about unconditional love. In your scenario, if I knew he had done whatever, I would have called emergency services...period. Human decency is to take action to help, to a reasonable degree. Beyond that, forget it.

 

If I knew he was a decent person to begin with, I would have held his hand, even up to the point of personal danger, of a reasonable level.

[Geishawhelk]

See, this is what I can't and don't want to fathom about unconditional love.

 

"don't want to....."?

 

Could you elaborate.....?

 

I've said before:

Conditional Love doesn't mean excusing their behaviour, condoning it, or approving of it.

It means knowing that the event has taken place and the person is responsible - A-100% - for what they have done.

It means being an upright citizen, and making sure that correct remedial actions are taken.

Even if it means seeing that person go down for a very long time.

 

There is no excuse for voluntary, willful wrong behaviour (discount mental illness. We're not discussing that, so it doesn't figure.....) and there's no reason to let someone off the hook, and call it unconditional Love.

That's idiocy.

But Unconditional Love itself is not judgemental, critical or discriminating.

 

Have you ever seen those statues of the Holy Virgin Mary, with her hands held loosely down by her sides, palms turned forwards, head bowed in humility?

 

What she is projecting from her palms, is Unconditional Love. Whether a person seeks it or not, whether they have asked for it or not, whether they feel deserving of it or not.

It is freely given, with no reciprocal request.

 

Imagine the people who must have knelt before such a statue, seeking forgiveness, understanding, kindness, shelter and hope?

 

I'm not religious, but it's still an image whose quality sends shivvers down my spine.

[Trialbyfire]

Straight up Geish, I don't want to be that way. I refuse to care for another human being who has no social conscience, ethics and/or morals.

 

I see it on LS all the time. People who offer nothing to others and only take. It's a waste of my emotion to invest in these projects.

 

I know that's harsh but that's my perception of it. I'm not like Mother Teresa. I refuse to be a martyr, although I can respect and admire what she's done.

[Geishawhelk]

Everyone has to make their own choices.

That's absolutely as it should be.

That's the whole point, isn't it?

Making choices based on information, experience, conditioning and circumstantial influence.

 

I'm not going to tell you whether you're right or wrong, in your decision, that's not my aim.

 

I don't entirely agree with you, because in my opinion, the moment we start putting conditions on our 'outgoing', we have to be prepared to accept conditions on the 'incoming'.

Without argument.

 

But I totally understand and respect where you're coming from...

And please know that's not intended to be patronising, though it definitely sounds it! Sorry!

 

I'd love others to come in with comment, because this is turning into a 2-person thread, and I think that's frowned upon....!

[Taramere]

You are with the more injured person, and they are clearly distressed, but as you hold their hand, they begin to calm down.

You stay with the person, talking to them calmly, gently, reassuring them, comforting them.

Once the Emergency services get there, they deal with the injured driver, and as they wheel him towards the ambulance, he holds your hand and thanks you for your help. He really appreciates your kindness.

 

Feels good to have done what you did.....

 

You later discover that he was driving away from his house in a hurry, because he'd just beaten his wife so badly, he left her unconscious on the kitchen floor.

 

How does this make you feel?

 

I think, in the situation you described, if I knew about the wife-beating incident I could quite easily take the action TBF recommended (eg practical assistance, no demonstrations of empathy towards the wife-beater) and feel like I'd done my civilian duty.

 

Here is an article on women who show love to serial killers, and psychologists' speculations on their motives for doing so.

 

Regarding love as an unconditional thing that should be extended to those who have succumbed completely to evil cheapens my notion of love. Love is something I apply in a discriminating way to people who I think are exceptional (in a good way). Not hell-dwelling monstrosities who spice up their meaningless lives by murdering people and ripping up their bodies.

 

Those women gushing lovingly and non-judgementally over Peter Sutcliffe reminds me of someone pouring perfume down a sewer in the hope that it'll smell nicer. Surely all it does is add a sickening sweetness that makes the revolting stench even more unbearable to those who have to live near it.

 

So my vote is for love to be conditional.

[Geishawhelk]

Have you read the thread?

 

I suspect not......

[Taramere]

Have you read the thread?

 

Yes, I have.

 

I suspect not......

 

Why's that?

[Geishawhelk]

Because I'm not talking about the kind of love you're talking about.

I said that a few posts back.

The interpretation of the word 'Love' is at odds here.

 

I'm not being argumentative.

No confrontation is intended, I'm merely clarifying....

[Taramere]

Because I'm not talking about the kind of love you're talking about.

I said that a few posts back.

The interpretation of the word 'Love' is at odds here.

 

I'm not being argumentative.

No confrontation is intended, I'm merely clarifying....

 

You're talking about holding a general sense of compassion in your heart, and not letting anything take it away I think. If so, we're talking about the same thing. I see myself as generally being a compassionate person, but there are circumstances in which I won't feel compassion. Those being if I think someone has crossed a line where they become evil.

 

Unconditional love would suggest that regardless of whether a person crosses that line, you will have compassion for them. That's not me. Sure, if someone I regarded as evil were to be subjected to a painful death I wouldn't want to watch. I'd get upset if I had to watch. There's a part of me that can't bear to watch any living thing, however revolting I find it, in agony.

 

I don't have a sense that wanting to avoid that horrible feeling (ie that I'd get from seeing another living creature in distress) is compassion and unconditional love though. Do you think it is? I feel it has more to do with self love and protecting myself from an unpleasant spectacle.

[Geishawhelk]

You're talking about holding a general sense of compassion in your heart, and not letting anything take it away I think. If so, we're talking about the same thing.

 

Hmmmmm... Don't think so.

I'm talking about the qualities of Love AND compassion, which are different. You can feel Love, or Compassion, and Love and Compassion. But the two are not interchangeable, definitively.

 

Unconditional love would suggest that regardless of whether a person crosses that line, you will have compassion for them. That's not me. Sure, if someone I regarded as evil were to be subjected to a painful death I wouldn't want to watch. I'd get upset if I had to watch. There's a part of me that can't bear to watch any living thing, however revolting I find it, in agony.

That's the Compassion. But not Unconditional Love.

 

I don't have a sense that wanting to avoid that horrible feeling (ie that I'd get from seeing another living creature in distress) is compassion and unconditional love though. Do you think it is?

Partly, yes.....

 

I feel it has more to do with self love and protecting myself from an unpleasant spectacle.

 

Has it nothing to do with knowing the torment that person will suffer?

Do you actually hope they will suffer and go through pain and anguish? Are you glad or happy they will be put through that?

[Taramere]

Has it nothing to do with knowing the torment that person will suffer? Do you actually hope they will suffer and go through pain and anguish? Are you glad or happy they will be put through that?

 

I'm thinking specifically of Saddam Hussein now. As long as I don't have to watch, I'm indifferent to the pain someone I regard as evil is put through. I don't get any joy from the thought of it. Any concern I do have relates more to the notion of people actually enjoying a spectacle like that.

 

If I had to watch, I'd feel sickened by the pain they were in...but again, that's because I have an aversion to seeing people in pain, regardless of my personal feelings for them. I wouldn't feel more positive feelings for them as a result of having seen them in pain. I'd just feel pity, which is a horrible thing to feel.

[carhill]

In the most recent scenario (traffic accident), my empathy and compassion know no conditions, but the human does not occupy my thoughts or spirit outside of the moment. They are nothing to me personally. That's the difference. One can be compassionate and empathetic without being loving. If I loved them, I'd feel their pain always. Their spirit would be with me always. In that sense, for the people I love, one never dies. They live on within me. That's a very small and select group of humans.

 

Should that be the way it is? No clue. As our MC told me, I'm wired a certain way and nothing is ever going to change that, for better or worse. For those wired differently, good on ya Diversity is healthy.

[alwayssme]

Should love be unconditioanal?

 

 

Honestly, NO i dont think it SHOULD...however i do believe that when you TRULY love somebody it IS unconditional...whether it be a romantic love or family, friendship etc..

 

Sometimes the one you love may not be the best person, hurts us and leaves us...if it wasnt unconditional, we wouldnt love them back. Love is a funny and tricky thing...I wonder how everybody else experinces it...Like how do other people FEEL love? is it the same feeling that comes over all of us...or do we all have different definitions of it?

[Trialbyfire]

If you're capable of giving unconditional love, then you have a capacity for love that I can honestly say, I don't possess.

[nana yaw II]

Should love between two people in a relationship be unconditional? Specifically I'm talking about spouse/SO relationships, not love as in love for family, friends, pets, etc.

 

My opinion is no. If you are treated poorly or physically abused by your spouse, why should you continue to love them? The idea of unconditional love seems to provide free reign for people to do whatever they want in a relationship without fear of any consequences. Unconditional love would be more suited to a parent/child relationship or maybe a person with an elderly or disabled parent. A situation where one side is actually somewhat helpless and cannot take care of themselves. But for two average, normal adults it seems unreasonable.

 

Unconditional love is a silly idea.

 

Love, like respect or trust, is earned and not given away.