devestated

[TaraMaiden]

I don't think her husband and this other woman are necessarily deliberately "against" Worlybear (interesting name!). Their objectives are not deliberately carried out against her..... but it must feel like that, sometimes.

He wants the best of both worlds, obviously. He would like to continue seeing this woman (I think i read that initially, he maintained he did not wish to do this, because he had no affection or permanent plans with her....) but obviously having achieved conjugal rights with worlybear, he is a man of unsafe morals. Quite devious.....

[worlybear]

This is so exhausting-does it ever get better? My daughter loves her Dad dearly and I want the best for her ,but I think that me allowing him to still see ow is a step even I'm not prepared to take.

If he wants solitude as he claimed then he doesn't need her. He can't have his cake and eat it. It depends upon whether he cares more for daughters or ow as to what happens next.

I think there will be more progress when the mortgage rockets and finances bite hard so that keeping the flat has a question mark.

A bedsit won't be as comfortable and neither will moving in with her family as it means making a commitment. Unbelievably he still hasn't heard from county and the settlement is still verbal.

Actively looking for new jobs for me so I rely less on his financial input.

Trying v.hard to distance myself emotionally.

[anne1707]

Sorry Worlybear but do you mean that if he continues to see the OW, you will not let him see his daughter?

 

I hope I am wrong. Using your daughter like that would be blackmail and totally wrong.

[pelicanpreacher]

This is so exhausting-does it ever get better? My daughter loves her Dad dearly and I want the best for her ,but I think that me allowing him to still see ow is a step even I'm not prepared to take.

If he wants solitude as he claimed then he doesn't need her. He can't have his cake and eat it. It depends upon whether he cares more for daughters or ow as to what happens next.

I think there will be more progress when the mortgage rockets and finances bite hard so that keeping the flat has a question mark.

A bedsit won't be as comfortable and neither will moving in with her family as it means making a commitment. Unbelievably he still hasn't heard from county and the settlement is still verbal.

Actively looking for new jobs for me so I rely less on his financial input.

Trying v.hard to distance myself emotionally.[/QUOTE]

 

Good, good, good, good, good for you. Any step ... even if only a baby step ... away from the toxic environment your stbx seems glaringly insistent upon perpetuating in your life is far and away more preferable than languishing in the fetid sty your stbx seems Hell Bent on suffering unto yourself and daughter! His narcissism has ballooned so far beyond control that the the extent of its cancerous metastasism threatens to destroy you and everything around you!

[TaraMaiden]

Sorry Worlybear but do you mean that if he continues to see the OW, you will not let him see his daughter?

 

I hope I am wrong. Using your daughter like that would be blackmail and totally wrong.

 

No, I think she means that she does not want her h to see the OW. because that might mean possibly her h seeing the daughter while he is also with the ow.

 

I am still becoming accustomed to all the abbreviations, so please be patient with me....!

Should they all be in capitals, always?

[worlybear]

I would never allow H to see my daughter with the ow in tow as it would cause daughter too much upset. What I meant is that as he has bleated on so long about needing solitude, why does he need ow anyway?

Contact will be minimal and formal with daughter if he continues with ow, not casual and frequent as it is at the moment.

His and ow's actions have lost him his job and put our lives in financial crisis, if he is as sorry as he claims to be,the very least they can do is call the affair quits so that he can work on rebuilding relationships with his children,especially youngest daughter who has been so knocked back by his selfish actions. If he can't manage to give up ow then he has made a clear choice of preference for her above the feelings of his children.

I still find it despicable that daughter had to change schools as ow refused to leave her job and he stood by and allowed that to happen and STILL didn't give ow up. Why should he have everything his own way-its about time he looked out for his children's interests ,not his own.

[anne1707]

I can totally understand you not wanting your daughter to see the OW but it still sounds as if you will restrict his access to his daughter if he continues to see the OW. You also state that he has to choose between his children and the OW - again this is wrong. To be blunt, the choice he has to make is between you and the OW - the children should not come in to this equation at all. He is their father and has just as much right to see them and be with them as you do.

 

Please do not start playing this game of emotional blackmail. It is incredibly unfair on the children and has the potential to backfire on you.

[jwi71]

I would never allow H to see my daughter with the ow in tow as it would cause daughter too much upset.

 

You have NO control over this. If your "stbxh" picks up his daughter and goes home to the OW...so be it. Nothing YOU can do about it.

 

YOU have NO right to use your daughter as a pawn or weapon which is EXACTLY what this is. And it WILL backfire on you. Time for YOU to grow up and put your DAUGHTER'S needs over your own bitterness.

 

What I meant is that as he has bleated on so long about needing solitude, why does he need ow anyway?

So? So effin' what? What do YOU care?

File for D and move on...forget him.

HOw miserable it must be to continually obsess over the past...how can you see the future?

 

Contact will be minimal and formal with daughter if he continues with ow, not casual and frequent as it is at the moment.

You are picking a fight YOU lose. Try actually taking the advice of parents who have been there...DON'T walk this path. YOU lose and YOU cause your daughter MORE pain.

 

Like above, YOU are being a bitter, angry woman using her daughter to hurt her xH. How can YOU possibly claim to have her interest at heart and then USE her like some pawn in this vindictive little game of yours.

 

Grow the eff up worly.

 

Honestly, even though your xH left...based on these last few posts of yours...HE sounds like the better parent. At least he is using his daughter as a weapon. Thats disgusting.

 

His and ow's actions have lost him his job and put our lives in financial crisis, if he is as sorry as he claims to be,the very least they can do is call the affair quits so that he can work on rebuilding relationships with his children,especially youngest daughter who has been so knocked back by his selfish actions.

Yes he did. And, in case you haven't noticed - YOU have NO influence or RIGHT to dictate HIS life once he moved out. He has clearly chosen the OW. Now, file for D, forget him and his life and move forward.

 

If he can't manage to give up ow then he has made a clear choice of preference for her above the feelings of his children.

No...he didn't choose her over the kids. He chose her over you. This has NOTHING to do with the kids. Its all about him and your M.

 

I still find it despicable that daughter had to change schools as ow refused to leave her job and he stood by and allowed that to happen and STILL didn't give ow up. Why should he have everything his own way-its about time he looked out for his children's interests ,not his own.

So effin' what?

Its done. Its over. Time to move on. And dwelling over this does YOU no good. File for D, the cause is adultery and move on.

 

Share custody with your xH. Its best for your daughter. Its NOT about you and your bitterness and your anger. Its about allowing your daughter to see her father whom she loves.

 

But you're going to make it hell upon her aren't you? You're going to constantly remind her about her father...about how everything is HIS fault...about what a whore the OW is. And you'll fight and resist and make life hell for HER to get revenge on HIM.

[worlybear]

Amazing. Better parents are those who leave their children,lose their jobs and jeopardise the family's financial wellbeing through their selfish indescretions,force their children to change school and continue their affairs-and you think thats the better parent!???

 

I may not be perfect but at least I didn't walk out on our daughter- I'm here for her 24/7.

 

I didn't say I would stop all contact,just the casual daily contact he now has, which is much more than he could ever expect from the courts.

 

I have been exceptionally supportive towards him in all aspects,job and family wise - now I feel its his turn to compromise.

Yes I am thinking of my daughter- she needs a dad who is there for her and not just when its convenient for him.

 

Of course I'm bitter about ow. Like most people I'm a long way from sainthood and honest enough to admit it.

[anne1707]

I didn't say I would stop all contact,just the casual daily contact he now has, which is much more than he could ever expect from the courts.

 

But why should he not have the daily contact with your daughter? You do - so why not him. He does not love her any less than he did before all this happened. Stop using your daughter to hurt your husband.

 

Sorry but in my opinion, a good parent does not put their children in this position. Put her first - not your need for revenge.

[worlybear]

As I said before I'm not the perfect parent and I don't do sainthood.

I know how I'm supposed to react, put everyone elses needs first, step meekly aside and let things carry on and be wonderfully forgiving, but I just can't hack it and why should I ?

Younger daughter will still get to see him, I'm not deprieving her of her dad, and I need to be able to cope with everything.

 

Frankly he's lucky anyone in the famiy is having contact with him . Its only because I asked them to that they've stayed in touch with him at all.

[Athena]

Worly, its a shock that your H did have an affair, and moved out, continued with his OW etc... I get that. But, be careful, since your attitude to your daughter will affect how quickly she adapts to her new situation in her life.

 

You absolutely must try to remain neutral about OW to your daughter. If at all possible, with time, you should absolve your youngest of having to support your emotional needs (its a big burden for her, and really she shouldn't be expected to 'parent' you) by how she should feel around OW.

I totally understand your hatred for OW (I would feel the same) however you must not taint your daughter's relationship with her father, or with you, because of your feelings of being 'replaced' by OW.

 

Your H has a right to move on from your M and live with OW, and your daughter will have to adapt. She will only be able to do this if she sees YOU are okay with it. Even if you are not, you need to tell her its got nothing to do with her and that you wish her to get on with her dad and be understanding of his new life (and new partner).

 

It is wrong of you to continue to place a burden on your youngest to 'ensure' your H doesn't get his OW... if that is who he wants, that is who he should get, and he doesn't need your permission.

Yes, it is despicable that he had an affair on you and the knock-on effects hurt the family, but you all have to move on and try mend the damage and get on with your (new) lives. You cannot hold him in emotional blackmail with your daughter's access being denied to him.

THAT is despicable. Don't do it.

The one has nothing to do with the other -- the fact that your H had an A on you, does not mean you will punish him with limitations on his visits with his child IF he doesn't do what you say and avoid OW... you do not have the say so here. You will be showing a bad judgment and low character to do this to both your H and your daughter. Be the better person.

[Athena]

Frankly he's lucky anyone in the famiy is having contact with him . Its only because I asked them to that they've stayed in touch with him at all.

 

I truly hope that in time you allow your other children to be friends with your H and his OW if she becomes his new life partner, without them feeling like they are Betraying You.... you need to express to them that they can do this, if and when the time comes. You may not be ready to do this now, I get it, but at least put it in your mind that one day you will need to do this FOR YOUR CHILDREN'S BENEFIT.

 

You may find a better man for you in time, and you can move on with your life. You still need to hold your family together. Yes, you have been betrayed and hurt, but your H and his OW did not get together for the sole purpose of betraying and hurting YOU... they got together because they want each other.

 

The best revenge is to live your life well.

You do not have the right to taint the rest of your family's attitude about your H's new life. They are entitled to a one-on-one relationship with their dad, without feeling that they are hurting you, or letting their mom down. You need to give them that permission in time. You NEED to do this!

YOU in time, need to get past this hurt... you have to let go, and move on, as much as you don't want to right now, and as much as you never got a Say in how your life was changed.

[Athena]

Your H has a right to move on from your M and live with OW, and your daughter will have to adapt.

 

I also wish to point out to you that many times, when the spouse who had the affair is the wife, and she gets to keep the young children with her, the children automatically get 'exposed' to the affair partner when the parents divorce and the OM continues the relationship with the mom.

These children adapt to the new adult in their lives.

 

Now, just because the cheating spouse happens to be the dad, and the courts don't automatically give custody of the child to the dad, should your H be denied the right to see both his daughter AND have his choice of partner in his life once the marriage is over?

 

Even if he does this while you are still 'legally' married, Worly, he has MOVED OUT -- what does this tell you? Don't try to 'score' on technicalities, like the two of you are 'still married'... his actions show you his true intentions... and perhaps the only reason why he hasn't filed for divorce, is not that he wishes to give the M another go (like you wish), but rather, he is afraid of your retaliation regarding access to HIS child.

[anne1707]

Worlybear

 

My parents divorced when I was about 16 following my father's affair with the woman who is now my stepmother. My mother tried to turn my brother and I against my father and would constantly b***h about the OW as she then was.

 

Whilst I can totally understand the pain my mother was going through and the resulting bitterness, unfortunately it resulted in both my brother and I choosing to live with our father as we could not cope with her constant criticism of him. Over the following years my mother turned more and more to drink and ended up being admitted to a psychiatric hospital partly due to her alcoholism. The relationship with her eventually fell apart completely and I have had no contact at all with her for 20 years. I do not know if she is still alive even. However I continue to have a good relationship with both my father and my stepmother.

 

I am not saying that you could end up like my mother but I want to try and point out to you that putting your children in the middle of all this even when you see your H as the one who has done wrong, will not help the situation. This really could backfire on you and the relationship you have with your children.

 

Their father has not chosen to end his relationship with them. He wants to play an active role in caring and raising your daughter. Think of this - how much more bothered and upset would you be if he did not want to be involved.

[pelicanpreacher]

Worlybear

 

My parents divorced when I was about 16 following my father's affair with the woman who is now my stepmother. My mother tried to turn my brother and I against my father and would constantly b***h about the OW as she then was.

 

Whilst I can totally understand the pain my mother was going through and the resulting bitterness, unfortunately it resulted in both my brother and I choosing to live with our father as we could not cope with her constant criticism of him. Over the following years my mother turned more and more to drink and ended up being admitted to a psychiatric hospital partly due to her alcoholism. The relationship with her eventually fell apart completely and I have had no contact at all with her for 20 years. I do not know if she is still alive even. However I continue to have a good relationship with both my father and my stepmother.

 

I am not saying that you could end up like my mother but I want to try and point out to you that putting your children in the middle of all this even when you see your H as the one who has done wrong, will not help the situation. This really could backfire on you and the relationship you have with your children.

 

Their father has not chosen to end his relationship with them. He wants to play an active role in caring and raising your daughter. Think of this - how much more bothered and upset would you be if he did not want to be involved.

 

I'm curious Anne, did you or your brother ever commit infidelity in your adult relationships? I don't know your story but I posted a thread on children of divorce due to infidelity some time ago but didn't get any direct responses.

[anne1707]

I'm curious Anne, did you or your brother ever commit infidelity in your adult relationships? I don't know your story but I posted a thread on children of divorce due to infidelity some time ago but didn't get any direct responses.

 

Yes - we have both been unfaithful and I have wondered about the potential link to my parent's situation. My H and I are recovering from an affair I had that ended last summer. My brother's first marriage ended because of his affair(s). He has recently remarried but over the last 20 years or so he has had a string of failed relationships - he has tended to pick partners where you can see it is all doomed from the start. Unfortunately I think it is the same with his new wife.

[worlybear]

1.I do not speak badly of H to any of my chldren. 4 of them are grown up and as adults make their own choices. Out of respect for my feelings they have agreed to keep in touch with their Dad as I know how important the relationship is for them all.They are disgusted with him and feel he has let them down as he held such high moral principles and they respected him.

With younger daughter I am not critical of H and save my rage for this website and the pillow.

H wants to stay "single" and see ow without encumbrance of her family as he doesn't want them so there is no stepmother issue for our family. I actually think that the kids would respect him more if he at least moved in with her and made a commitment.

At the moment he's living in never-never land ,with nil responsibilities. I suspect the reason he doesn't want a divorce has more to do with the fact that ow will then expect a commitment from him and being married gives him the excuse to say no to her.

As I said before I would never stop all contact with younger daughter for him but unless he commits to ow I see no reason for my daughter to have any contact with her at all.

[LifesontheUp]

I do feel for you. But you've had some good advice here. I don't think you can or should stop your daughters contact with the OW if your husband is in a relationship with her.

 

You will move on from this Worly I promise. You may even get into a relationship yourself and will also want your daughter to meet him etc. I know your husbands relationship with this OW didn't start out in the "proper" manner but it sounds like a relationship whether you like it or not. Please don't stop something that you will likely want to do yourself at a later date i.e. introduce a new partner. Unfortunately, families split up all the time but children do adapt.

[pelicanpreacher]

Yes - we have both been unfaithful and I have wondered about the potential link to my parent's situation. My H and I are recovering from an affair I had that ended last summer. My brother's first marriage ended because of his affair(s). He has recently remarried but over the last 20 years or so he has had a string of failed relationships - he has tended to pick partners where you can see it is all doomed from the start. Unfortunately I think it is the same with his new wife.

 

Thank you for your candid response for it now helps me to understand the mechanism and dynamics that perpetuate a dysfunction like this. Though I could see a pattern, knowing that your mother's embitterment provided the driving force that drove you to choose the values of your father to the complete exclusion of her own should help you to make better sense of why you feel and behave the way you do. Since your father's values provided the primary point of reference in your lives to adhere to it is only natural that your outlook be completely warped by his and his OW's influence which, at its very best, is tainted to be sure. I know that you love your father but its my bet that if your mother would have handled the trauma of his betrayal with grace and dignity while loving a life worth living in spite of her travails you both would have remained closer to her than your father and stepmother which would have minimized the toxic effect of their dysfunction in your lives today. At the very least, you would have been better reminded of what he did and kept his parental influence in a proper perspective to achieve a more centered actualization as an adult.

 

1.I do not speak badly of H to any of my chldren. 4 of them are grown up and as adults make their own choices. Out of respect for my feelings they have agreed to keep in touch with their Dad as I know how important the relationship is for them all.They are disgusted with him and feel he has let them down as he held such high moral principles and they respected him.

With younger daughter I am not critical of H and save my rage for this website and the pillow.

H wants to stay "single" and see ow without encumbrance of her family as he doesn't want them so there is no stepmother issue for our family. I actually think that the kids would respect him more if he at least moved in with her and made a commitment.

At the moment he's living in never-never land ,with nil responsibilities. I suspect the reason he doesn't want a divorce has more to do with the fact that ow will then expect a commitment from him and being married gives him the excuse to say no to her.

As I said before I would never stop all contact with younger daughter for him but unless he commits to ow I see no reason for my daughter to have any contact with her at all.

 

I think you'd do well to establish a strict separation agreement that specifically details who your young daughter may be exposed to until you are officially divorced. You will also have to ramp up the love you normally devote to her in order to replace that of her father's for sometimes children are but chattel to a cheater while they are lost in a fog thinking only of themselves. You can neither assure nor dissuade her of how he feels about her though because he has lied and cheated on you so much that you cannot believe a word that he says about her and only half of what you see by deed. Until your stbx begins behaving maturely and rationally by your observation you must remain vigilent against his careless attitude about who he hurts to ensure your daughter doesn't get caught in the roller coaster of his emotional flak. Finally, make it perfectly clear that though he is now a closed chapter in your life you will not tolerate any further betrayal or disruption of your daughter's life by his mind games or illusions of a false front ever again or you will take steps using the severest legal remedies available to snap him back in line!

[Athena]

As I said before I would never stop all contact with younger daughter for him but unless he commits to ow I see no reason for my daughter to have any contact with her at all.

 

But this is not for YOU to determine -- whether or not your daughter will have contact with her father's lover/partner... this is for HIM to determine. He and you are both parents. You should not be calling the shots here... do you honestly not see this?!

[TaraMaiden]

This will create confusion and resentment in your daughter's mind and heart.

 

If you do not give her reasons, she may believe her father does not wish to see her so often, and begin to be depressed and her work will suffer.

If you tell her the real reason why her father is seeing her less, she will be resentful and troublesome towards you, and her attitude towards you may change.

if you have issues with your husband about his relationship with the ow, this is for you to deal with on your level, as a condition based on your marriage to him.

This has absolutely nothing to do with your daughter, and she should not be misused in this way.

it is vindictive, vengeful, hurtful and completely unproductive.

 

With much metta.

 

TM

 

_/l\_

[worlybear]

I will protect my daughter to the nth degree. As previously posted this whole affair is being carried out in a very public goldfish bowl ,due to the nature of the community in which ow, H and myself ,both work and belong. How I wish it wasn't ! So much easier to contain fall-out when its private and not in the workplace ,directly affecting family.

Daughter has always known who the ow is and she herself feels betrayed by ow's actions towards her dad and vice-versa.

She is adamant that she wants nothing to do with ow and ,as posted ,we had to change her school because of ow. Why should she have anything to do with her or accept her?

She likes being with her dad playing in the garden or going out in his car. She has told him she wants nothing to do with ow.

He has massively disrupted her life ,and having worked with kids for 25+ years ,it is an absolute myth to say that kids are resilient and bounce back. They are not rubber balls and both H and myself have taught long enough to see the damage that affairs inflict on the kids despite adults kidding themselves otherwise.

H is aware of the effect his actions have had on her. Its now up to him.

Daughter should come 1st but we'll wait and see.

[Lucky_One]

Your daughter is VERY young, and she CAN be resilient. She was friends with OW's daughter, and they played together a lot. This could actually end up being a good and healthy future relationship for her, if she is allowed to work through her feelings without being pushed in one direction or another.

 

You keep bringing up the fact that your H wants solitude, but I think you are making his statement far too broad. He doesn't want companionship - with you. That doesn't mean that he doesn't want to spend the rest of his life alone in a poorly furnished flat, and his rejection of you doesn't mean that he deserves a lonely and loveless lifestyle.

 

Have you started seeing a therapist, to help you work through some of this on a real-life basis? It sounds like you could use a non-biased, professional opinion on how to start letting go of the anger and hurt, and how to help your daughter learn a new relationship with her dad.

[pelicanpreacher]

Here's a thought...Why don't we give Worly's daughter twice as much time to grieve the destruction of her life and family as we would an adult? Many posters theorize that it takes most adults 2-5 years to fully restore themselves after suffering the betrayal of infidelity so both Worly and her husband should be sentenced to social and sexual celibacy for a term of 4 to 10 years. If we, as adults with children, accepted that price to pay for committing the act of infidelity this Forum would close up shop in a week!