devestated

[TaraMaiden]

I will protect my daughter to the nth degree.

 

Then why not agree with her, what she would like to do?

With your husband present?

Why not give her the opportunity to express her wishes?

 

That she wishes to not be with him and the ow is understandable. But conditions must come from her, not you.

protecting people is the best thing to do, but it would be more constructive to protect her in a way she would like, not in a way you decide.....

[pelicanpreacher]

This will create confusion and resentment in your daughter's mind and heart.

 

If you do not give her reasons, she may believe her father does not wish to see her so often, and begin to be depressed and her work will suffer.

If you tell her the real reason why her father is seeing her less, she will be resentful and troublesome towards you, and her attitude towards you may change.

if you have issues with your husband about his relationship with the ow, this is for you to deal with on your level, as a condition based on your marriage to him.

This has absolutely nothing to do with your daughter, and she should not be misused in this way.

it is vindictive, vengeful, hurtful and completely unproductive.

 

With much metta.

 

TM

 

_/l\_

 

Worly's daughter isn't some test tube baby accelerated in artificial gestation to the age of 7 after the affair. She is a sentient and cognizant being already feeling confusion and resentment simply by having to live her adjustment and perspective to the actions foisted upon her by her father. Though she is powerless to effect change doesn't make her so stupid, robotic, insenstive, or just too young and immature to understand that she has been hurt by what her father did, is doing, and will continue to do ad infinitum!

 

Worly, let the advice of this poster walk into the light but do not follow it. Let your child feel as she feels and resist the impulse to manipulate those feelings by rationalizing her father's actions one way or another. You are the only parent she has left holding the line on the values she's learned throughout her life and, though her father's actions have shaken those values to the core, you must remain her lighthouse beacon to show her that even though her father is broken it doesn't mean she'll break too. Learn to love a life worth living and show your daughter the way to walk as an adult with grace and dignity in the face of devastating trials and travails by forgiving your husband's trespasses, moving on successfully with your life, and teaching her the lessons of love, peace, and forgiveness!

[TaraMaiden]

Very poetic. very articulate. Very emphatic.

very unskilful.....

As a child, I saw the devastating effect that the actions of one well-meaning parent had on all concerned.

I saw a child deprived of her mother's affection, because the father believed that the mother deserved to be punished or held to ransom.

This person still has angry and bitter resentment for BOTH her parents because they both - consciously or otherwise - utilised her to inflict pain on one another.

 

Worlybear, you are combining your daughter's pain with your own indignation.

you cannot do this.

permit your daughter self-expression, but do what is best for her through agreement with your husband, not by determining what you alone feel is right to do.

 

Talk to her.

Talk to them both.

Talk to each other.

 

_/l\_

[TaraMaiden]

Worly's daughter isn't some test tube baby accelerated in artificial gestation to the age of 7 after the affair. She is a sentient and cognizant being already feeling confusion and resentment simply by having to live her adjustment and perspective to the actions foisted upon her by her father. Though she is powerless to effect change doesn't make her so stupid, robotic, insenstive, or just too young and immature to understand that she has been hurt by what her father did, is doing, and will continue to do ad infinitum!

 

Which is precisely why Worlybear should discuss the situation with her and take her wishes into account!

 

Worly, let the advice of this poster walk into the light but do not follow it. Let your child feel as she feels and resist the impulse to manipulate those feelings by rationalizing her father's actions one way or another. You are the only parent she has left holding the line on the values she's learned throughout her life and, though her father's actions have shaken those values to the core, you must remain her lighthouse beacon to show her that even though her father is broken it doesn't mean she'll break too.

 

Ah..... I think maybe you are missing the point actually...

nobody is suggesting these things have not happened.

What we are discussing is worlybear's intention of preventing her ex-husband from seeing his daughter, if he does not stop seeing the OW.....

 

This is what worlybear said she was going to do.

 

Learn to love a life worth living and show your daughter the way to walk as an adult with grace and dignity in the face of devastating trials and travails by forgiving your husband's trespasses, moving on successfully with your life, and teaching her the lessons of love, peace, and forgiveness!

 

This portion of your post, however - I completely agree with!!

[worlybear]

Hmmm this is getting heavy......

Ok. I do talk to my daughter ,I talk to all my kids in fact.

Yes ,she is only 7 ,but old enough to know her own mind and her own wishes.

She is emphatic that she doesn't want to see ow in any guise or form.

Yet again I say I'm not stopping H from seeing daughter altogether. (Actually we have talked about it and he is aware of how she feels about ow.)

In the end it all comes down to commitment, there are no grey areas in a child's life- just black and white. She and her wishes either come first ....or they don't.

[citizen67]

Worly - don't let anyone tell you otherwise you are a good Mom. You certainly don't have to be a Mom who puts herself so far back on the list that you are put in humiliating or very hurtful situations just so your ex H isnt ever made to feel uncomfortable b/c it might rub off on your kid. Get those older siblings to help you with the little one more. In the end, generally, siblings have more impact on who you become than parents do

[worlybear]

Thanks citizen 67. Older daughter helps when she can but is very tied up with A level revision at the moment and her Dad's affair has not left her untouched either. She has had to see the doc and is struggling to cope with the publicity.

Older sons visit youngest when they can but obviously have work commitments ,partners, homes etc.

H picked up younger daughter today from school and looked after her until I got home from work.Played in the garden with her at home.

No firm news yet re his job/supply work.

I'm still looking for new job for September-no luck yet.

[worlybear]

Older daughter had massive row with H tonight as she asked him if he had to choose between herself plus her brothers on the one hand and ow and her family on the other who would he choose. He got very nasty with her and said it was none of her business. She was/is heartbroken. He told her she was grown up now and what he did was his choice.

In the light of this I asked him what age will he have had enough of younger daughter.

[imagine]

Worlybear,

 

An adulterer destroys his whole family. A husband has to learn primarily what the word "selfless" means.

[worlybear]

Have spoken to H and said that if he wants to keep contact with older daughter then he needs to sit down with her and talk to her and reassure her that he still cares for her.

Also noticed that younger daughter has him dancing absolutely to her tune- if she said jump he would ask how high. Is this a common reaction with H and is it based in guilt?

Re H things have been very heated and we have had some some massive confrontations. He can't understand why the family are suffering and feels we should have moved on.... Pointed out to him that we have only been aware of situation since Dec- he's been moving on since he began his affair last summer.

I do get that he doesn't want to be with me/us but I don't understand why he won't commit to ow if she is as important to him as he maintains.

He also said you don't want me, why can't I have somebody else?

Feeling very confused and emotionally wiped out.

[jwi71]

Have spoken to H and said that if he wants to keep contact with older daughter then he needs to sit down with her and talk to her and reassure her that he still cares for her.

Also noticed that younger daughter has him dancing absolutely to her tune- if she said jump he would ask how high. Is this a common reaction with H and is it based in guilt?

Re H things have been very heated and we have had some some massive confrontations. He can't understand why the family are suffering and feels we should have moved on.... Pointed out to him that we have only been aware of situation since Dec- he's been moving on since he began his affair last summer.

I do get that he doesn't want to be with me/us but I don't understand why he won't commit to ow if she is as important to him as he maintains.

He also said you don't want me, why can't I have somebody else?

Feeling very confused and emotionally wiped out.

 

The ONLY questin I have at this point is...

 

Have you filed yet?

Have you even spoken to a lawyer? Because I strongly suspect your stbxh's payments even if not yet received...will be considered jointly owned...that is they were earned while still married. i.e. no reason to wait...

 

I understand the fixation with the OW. For a while, I was fixated on my stbxh's lover too so I do understand. But at some point one must realize its NOT about her. Stop obsessing about her. Stop trying to CONTROL your H.

 

You have ZERO control over him now...and never really did.

 

Go to a lawyer...learn where you stand and file...

[Athena]

I do get that he doesn't want to be with me/us but I don't understand why he won't commit to ow if she is as important to him as he maintains.

He also said you don't want me, why can't I have somebody else?

Feeling very confused and emotionally wiped out.

He's trying to blame you in a way that he can -- that you don't want him, so what's he to do?

Really, that's pathetic of him! If he was honest in wanting you, he would work his tail off to show you, not lamely throw out a one-liner about YOU not wanting him! He's gonna have to do more than that to turn your head... I would pay him no mind...

 

He probably doesn't want to commit to OW so that he doesn't get worse fall-out from the family. I am sure in time he will, when he feels he has you all under control. Not a nice thought at all, but of course for him he is trying to do damage control, and probably only wishes to publicly move forward with her once he's sorted out his job, money, and you the divorce... the guilty spouse rely on the betrayed spouse to divorce them, simply to be able to say "She divorced ME"... but go ahead and divorce his ass anyway.

 

Anyway, you shouldn't waste your time thinking about his relationship with OW.

[worlybear]

Its very difficult not to think about the ow as unfortunately I still have to work in the same school alongside her. I do keep it together at work and I am professional but its like salt in a raw wound. It doesn't help that H has lost his job because of affair and yet she continues to work at school.

In reply to a previous poster- yes I am in therapy and having counselling and it is helping a bit. In fact 4 of our 5 children/young adults are all in counselling and are on prescribed ads.

H is aware but says its not his fault they're not coping. He is angry,verbally aggressive and riddled with guilt . I don't think he'll have any peace of mind until he talks to them individually.

I get that he is lashing out because he feels guilty and it is easier to blame me and the family rather than acknowledge his and ow's part in this whole mess. He's never been good at admitting fault ,its always down to somebody else.

Re divorce- I'm very anxious about financial settlements- I am going to take further legal advice re his payment from County and his contribution to maintain daughters ,me, mortgage and house bills.

Divorce may give me personal closure at the moment but I definitely need financial peace of mind to rebuild our lives without him so I'll see what legal side recommend.

[worlybear]

H made a point of apologising to older daughter and gave her a hug telling her he loved her. I was really pleased for her and glad that he had thought about his actions and words towards her and made some recompense.

Keeping out of his way at the moment ,just being polite,but its hard as I still care about him.

[tami-chan]

but I don't understand why he won't commit to ow if she is as important to him as he maintains.

 

Why do YOU care? Why do YOU need to understand? What is it to YOU?

[worlybear]

It matters to me because we were together for 28 years as he has thrown his job ,his family and his marriage away ,at least it would be for an understandable reason ,otherwise what on earth was it all for ?

[tami-chan]

It matters to me because we were together for 28 years as he has thrown his job ,his family and his marriage away ,at least it would be for an understandable reason ,otherwise what on earth was it all for ?

 

Meaning.....? If he is in love with OW and want to marry her it would all be ok to you? I think not. You will still not undestand why he fell out of love with you, you will still not understand what it is the OW can offer than you can't or didnt.....

 

If he does not commit to his OW then what? Do you think that by not commiting to his OW there is a chance he will beg his way back to you? He is getting whatever it was he thought he was missing from your marriage without the marriage....

 

At any rate, it should not make a difference to you what kind of relationship he has with the OW. Somebody here said earlier to stop obsessing about it...you really should. It's not good for you.

[delajoonal]

Quote:

but I don't understand why he won't commit to ow if she is as important to him as he maintains.

 

worlybear...

 

I GET IT!

my stbxh cheated on me EA, lasted 3 weeks, broke up our 13 year marriage...and thenthe OW broke IT off with him...now he has neither of us...

 

anyway...

 

i think what you, worlybear, are trying to get at is some CLOSURE..right?

believe ME, i SO GET that.

 

you JUST want to know where YOU stand..either way, even if H said you and him are ovEr done kapoot... to know where he is emotionally, albeit alone, or in the relationship with OW still?

 

you said you were married for 23 or 28 yeas, either way, it was a LIFETIME and YOU are going to NEED answers etc. to move on..sometimes we just can't do it in our heads and make our hearts move on without SOME questions being asnwered..

 

so my point...is that worlybear has ALL the rights in the world to want to KNOW where the man she spent the last 28 years with, is at ...maybe not literally...but as a jaded wife myself, i understand her...

 

tami-chan....maybe back off a bit, the woman is in pain...your posts to her and almost abusive in beating down WHY SHE NEEDS TO KNOW...

 

let her post, and vent, and not feel like she should be scared to come back to LS for advice or opinions, and support.

 

JMHO:love:

have a great day all!

[tami-chan]

 

tami-chan....maybe back off a bit, the woman is in pain...your posts to her and almost abusive in beating down WHY SHE NEEDS TO KNOW...

 

let her post, and vent, and not feel like she should be scared to come back to LS for advice or opinions, and support!

 

Ahm..she can post anything at anytime...I am not that powerful. I do not think I control her internet access.

 

yes, the woman is in pain. I get that. What's the difference between her and the others who are also in pain and are flamed and lambasted here? Nothing. Pain is pain, no matter where you are coming from. She wants opinion, I give her my opinion. It's an open forum. I am not the only one who told her she is obsessing too much about the OW. She needs to know it will not do her good to do that. Truth hurts sometimes, as they say.

[TaraMaiden]

Tami, everybody's pain is individual.

You cannot mass personal pain all together and say it is all the same.

 

Pain is attachment.

Pain is suffering.

Pain is ephemeral and transitory.

but while a person feels pain, that person knows it to be real, deep and personal.

 

Tami, it is not a question of what you say, and others are saying it...

It is a question of how you say it.

Gentle words are more productive in some cases.

harsh loving words, to shock the person into 'consciousness' are sometimes used by skilled masters...

But the word here is skill.

 

Right Speech is a skilful attribute....

Gentleness sometimes is a kinder approach.

 

I happen to agree with your sentiment.

Completely.

 

But it's easier said than done....

And sometimes, the bucket of cold water does nothing but dampen the spirit......

Thank you for your words though.

there is truth in them....

 

Worlybear... whatever your ex-husband ends up doing will be down to him.

he has made his choices, he is now looking the consequences in the face...

This is why he is lashing out in anger, and making inappropriate comments to your eldest daughter.

And he has apologised... a great indication that he is aware of his hastiness and short temper.

This is now HIS confusion.

His life is in turmoil.

He doesn't know what to do but he cannot go back to how things were....

He has no job.

He may well also be confused as to why she still has her post.

And she is pulling his emotions no doubt, especially now that I think she knows he has had relations with you since your break up...

So everyone is tense and emotional.

This is a mess of his making.

 

But it is best for you if you take a deep breath and say - "I don't care. Do what you want. I have my own life to rebuild."

Your responsibility is to you and your children, particularly your daughters....

 

try to be at peace worlybear.

I know it seems impossible to believe, but things will settle down....

Look after yourself.

 

 

_/l\_

[tami-chan]

Tami, everybody's pain is individual.

You cannot mass personal pain all together and say it is all the same.

 

I agree that everyone's pain is exclusive to them. No pain is the same. No one can really know the other's pain. However you see it, upside down or right side up, it IS still pain.

 

 

Gentle words are more productive in some cases.

harsh loving words, to shock the person into 'consciousness' are sometimes used by skilled masters...

But the word here is skill.

 

How am I saying it?How do you know I am not asking her beseechingly and pleadingly? You don't. No one does. I am not using exclamation marks(i.e. "stop obssessing!!!!!!!) I am not using a lot of question marks (i.e. "why??????????") nor a bold font or capital letters. You know something, I think DELOOSIONAL was yellng at me, for using bold fonts when referring to me.

 

Anyhow, many people are advocating honesty---some even said, it really is simple, just tell the truth. I am asking straightforward questions and giving my opinion truthfully. I guess sometimes truth is not that easy to dole out, afterall , eh?

[TaraMaiden]

You are absolutely right. The truth is not that easy to dole out.

it is extremely difficult in fact.

it's the hardest thing in the world to do, because deception simply leads to complications and the truth is always the best way.

 

But how to tell that truth is the trickiest part of all.

 

People resort to deception precisely because they do not know how to convey the truth.

Or maybe they do not want to admit the truth.

 

Truth is a tiny word, but it is the heaviest word to carry....

 

Your words were completely sound.

But in many ways, they should fall like magnolia petals to the ground....

 

(I read that in a book. It sounds nice. )

 

_/l\_

[delajoonal]

tami-chan...

 

i was not yelling at you...sorry i just wanted to make the point in bold.

TaraMaiden put it a bit more eliquently than i ...

basically, it is how you put the words on paper...

just simply stating,

Why do YOU care? Why do YOU need to understand? What is it to YOU? (quote)

those phrases, while you mean well, and want her to really think about what she is doing to her own self...

the phrases are pretty harsh and to the point..i guess i was trying to say,

that there is a softer way to deliver those questions, statements etc...

to the party in pain...i just would NOT want anyone who is in deserpate need of LS and its members, to be scared off by such harsh questions and statments.

 

thanks for understanding and here is to hoping she can move on and get emotionally healthy and away from that emotionally abusive H of hers:)

[tami-chan]

tami-chan...

 

i was not yelling at you...sorry i just wanted to make the point in bold.

TaraMaiden put it a bit more eliquently than i ...

basically, it is how you put the words on paper...

just simply stating,

Why do YOU care? Why do YOU need to understand? What is it to YOU? (quote)

 

those phrases, while you mean well, and want her to really think about what she is doing to her own self...

the phrases are pretty harsh and to the point..i guess i was trying to say,

that there is a softer way to deliver those questions, statements etc...

to the party in pain...i just would NOT want anyone who is in deserpate need of LS and its members, to be scared off by such harsh questions and statments.

 

thanks for understanding and here is to hoping she can move on and get emotionally healthy and away from that emotionally abusive H of hers:)

 

OP is a tough woman, albeit in a painful situation. I do not know if you have noticed, but she started this thread back in December 2008. Not coming back here is unlikely. Have you read the thread from the beginning?

[worlybear]

Thankyou for all your replies. I appreciate that my words and account of my actions are extremely frustrating to some posters. I don't always understand them myself.

All I rely on is gut feeling and act accordingly. Sometimes it means that I have to roll with the punches.

I didn't take my marriage vows flippantly and thought long and hard about them so even though it seems ages to some of you I do not intend to rush into dissolving our marriage.

We are currently trying to work out finances so that the girls have minimum disruption to their lives.