Thinking of leaving for the OW? Think again.

[JamesM]

Let's stay on topic and keep personal jabs out of it.

 

Confoozed, I am surprised your wife took you back so often yet I am not. She still had hope every time that you had changed. She believed you. This is not being a doormat...it is actually love and trust.

 

But now you have shown her that you cannot be trusted, and you do not truly love her. I know you miss her, and suddenly you think she is the greatest woman possible, but you have had such a change a number of times and that is since you joined LS.

 

How can you expect that she will believe you?

 

I give her alot of credit. She tried for herself. She tried for you. And she tried for the kids. She spent many many nights crying her heart out when once again she was disappointed. She carried loads of anger and depression when once again you scorned her love and went back to the woman who for the moment created a fantasy in your life. She waited and waited, but again, you left.

 

Now she should take care of herself.

 

Move on. You had plenty of warnings. You had much advice. You had many opportunities. Yet you squandered in for that one more moment of pleasure.

 

And this type of pleasure will bring pain. Now you must reap the seed which you have sown.

 

BUT...never forget your children. Rebuild that respect. Help them overcome the anger and pain your brought into their lives. Your selfish actions have forever altered their lives. They used to have a family and a stable life. Now they are a statistic. Now they will always question commitment and love from someone. Now they will always ask "Why?" And now they will always say "What did I do?"

 

The most innocent in this whole mess are the ones who will be hurt the most.

 

Only you can pick up the pieces of their hearts and somehow attempt to bring them back together in some semblance of normalcy.

 

Be a man and focus on others instead of always making this about you.

 

For once, listen to the advice given to you.

[2sure]

And then I asked her if she could somehow be 100 per cent sure that I wanted to come back to her, 100 per cent sure that I wanted to be with her and only her for the rest of our lives, 100 per cent true that she would always be able to trust be, would she consider reconciling. Her response was "That'd take a miracle...but yes."

 

Confoozed -

 

You have got to stop. Asking your wife this, while she is in such enormous grief and pain over the constant waffling you have inflicted on her, your family, and her emotions...is RELENTLESS. Ive used that term before for your behavior and I have to say I'm sad for your family that with all of your words and supposed reflection: YOU STILL DONT GET IT. Not even a little.

 

Worse than that - even if you dont get it - You wont give her any peace.

Having the OPTION - knowing it may be there - is so very important to you - much more important to you....than even your wife's mental well being.

 

I believe you may very well be the most narcissist and selfish person I have ever even read about on here.

 

And thats saying a lot.

Now, I know you feel like I have bashed you. But I am being sincere, and as much as I honestly would like to - that is not my intent.

[OWoman]

Let's stay on topic and keep personal jabs out of it.

 

Thanks James!

 

But now you have shown her that you cannot be trusted, and you do not truly love her.

 

Confoozed - this might be hard for you to comprehend right now, but by going to her and asking her to hold out some hope to you for the future is not serving your own cause, and it's sure not serving hers! Right now, she needs to heal, and to recover from yet another in a string of betrayals. Making more demands on her - and yes, this is a demand - when her resources are depleted is unfair. And it's NOT going to help to convince her of any miracle - you need to do that by becoming someone she can love, trust and respect - not someone she feels sorry for and needs to help out and pick up after yet again.

 

And, in terms of your own therapeutic process - this is very unhelpful. Keeping people dangling in the shop window while you stand outside and browse is not only deeply disrespectful to THEM, it also keeps you in the same space you've been in all this time instead of allowing you to move into the space you need to, to understand yourself, who you are, what you need and why, and to heal yourself so that you can become someone that SOME woman - whether your W, your OW or some woman you have yet to meet - can someday have a R with you that isn't doomed at the outset.

 

Be a man and focus on others instead of always making this about you.

 

Well, both - but separately. Love and respect your W enough to let her heal. And focus - through your therapy - enough on yourself APART FROM YOUR W OR OW or any other woman, to heal yourself. Your W is not a bit-player in your drama.

[DavNY]

Its been awhile since I've been on the board so I decided today to check it out to see what has been happening. This thread caught my eye. I read through most of it trying to come up to date. The reason it caught my eye is because I could very easily been in Confoozed situation. If anyone read my original posting when I was asking for advice you would see that it could have easily been me. I'm not involved with another woman but I very easily could be, fortunately I've had the willpower to control myself, so far. I received great advice and responses to my post but I still struggle with the thoughts that I missed 'sowing my wild oats' before I got married 30 years ago. I still struggle with the thoughts that I missed the 'chase'. I too have wonderful life. I have a beautiful and devoted wife. She worships the ground I walk on. We have 2 grown children who have turned into fantastic adults. I have a gifted life that most men would give there right arm to have and I'm comtemplating throwing it all away....go figure. How I could even consider leaving my wife and my life just to chase down some skanky women is beyond me....yet I think about it daily. I have no answers but I can certainly see how Confoozed got himself into his situation. I just hope to god I can continue with my willpower and hopfully one day these crazy thoughts will pass. I have been meeting with a therapist hoping he can help me sort things out but so far he hasn't been much help. In fact he told me that I should consider screwing a woman on the side just to get it out my system. I thought it was kind of bizaar that he gave me such advice. Anyways, my struggle continues on a daily basis. I have no answers but I thought I'd post since it's pretty similiar circumstances as Confoozed......minus actually having an OW.

[whichwayisup]

I have been meeting with a therapist hoping he can help me sort things out but so far he hasn't been much help. In fact he told me that I should consider screwing a woman on the side just to get it out my system.

 

This therapist of yours obviously is NOT a marriage counsellor and telling you to go for something on the side, to get it out of your system MAY be good for you, but it is NOT good for your marriage. I hope you don't follow your T's advice because it sucks!

[Confoozed]

DavNY, this post was meant for you. Stay away. If this story of pain and suffering I have inflicted on all those I love isn't enough to help you keep your dick in your pants and your head in reality, then good luck to you.

 

It's funny, I came to this board for answers and advice and support -- and while I may have rejected all or most of it -- I have to say I'm pretty disappointed with the bitter words uttered by so many. I hope you had fun reading my story and then venting your spleen. And not just at me; you were bashing a few of the others who responded.

 

Who are you people and how did you get to be so f---ing wise? You say I've got problems, well I know that. Maybe look at yourselves, too, and stop pretending you're here to support people. Never done anything wrong before? No doubt you guys woulda been lining up to get in on the stoning of the adultress before Jesus stepped in. Which one of you faultless people would be prepared to cast the first stone.

 

Oh, and a special round of applause for the pathetic losers among you who thought it a good idea to kick the crap out of my wife. Make you feel good? You, in particular, don't know $hit.

 

For those who offered some constructive feedback -- whether it's what I wanted to hear or not -- thank you. I don't mean to lump you in with all the bitter know-it-alls who obviously have life all figured out.

 

I do intend to keep posting, if only for the entertainment of you all.

[BlueEyedGirl]

Oh, and a special round of applause for the pathetic losers among you who thought it a good idea to kick the crap out of my wife. Make you feel good? You, in particular, don't know $hit.

 

Oh but you did it yorself in your last thread. And each time you screwed the OW. I have always thought that any woman who stays with a cheating husband is a very weak person. But the one who stays after it happens again and again is now asking for it. It takes a lot more courage to leave a mariage than to stay (if you think of it logically, objects in motion tend to stay in motion - no matter what the problems are it is actually easier to stay than to leave).

 

You all deserve what you get. You, OW, and now the wife. Wife didn't the first time around but she took you back twice and now pretty much said yes to the third time.

[Confoozed]

Confoozed, the kinda 'miracle' your wife is looking for isnt exactly that. What shes looking for is a real and genuine change. Shes looking for a new you to start a new relationship with. Not just a 'reworked' version, but a real true blue change. Change in attidude, change in lifestyle, change in your outlook. I truly believe if you can show her you have truly become a better person things could start looking up. It has to be something you notice too. A shift in your self awareness. Once you start feeling this...begin projecting over a long period of time, the world will reflect it right back on you.

 

Not sure if you're a religious person, but I would start looking to the Lord (or whichever God you pray to) to help rid you of your sinful ways. Because sweetie, humans by nature have a way of returning to sin if they dont look outside of themselves--God can help you direct this.

 

Sorry if I got too religious at the end there, but God has helped me actually change.

 

 

I agree with you AM. And to be clear to the others, I did not ask if I could return home. I don't know if I want to. I don't know what I want.

 

The question to her was whether she'd be prepared to give it another go if, and only if, she was completely certain I was a new man, one who'd be there for her and in love with her and her only, someone who she could trust implicitly.

 

I know I'm a piece of $hit now. That's how I got to where I am now. And I'll tell you, it's an unhappy place. So I know I have to change, not so I can try to convince my wife to take me back, but because I don't know who I am anymore. I will follow the advice of my therapist and live alone, start a whole new life, and a whole new way of life. Get healthy. If only because I still have to be a good dad for my kids.

 

The goal is to get my $hit together, find out once and for all what I want out of life, find some clarity and peace. And if my wife decides she likes that guy and thinks she can trust him, well, good for me.

 

As for God and church, I'm afraid I disavowed myself of that scene a long time back. (And yes, I can already hear some of you saying, tsk, tsk, well, no wonder.) But who knows, maybe the new me will find himself back in some pew again. Stranger things have happened.

[Confoozed]

I have always thought that any woman who stays with a cheating husband is a very weak person. But the one who stays after it happens again and again is now asking for it.... You all deserve what you get. You, OW, and now the wife. Wife didn't the first time around but she took you back twice and now pretty much said yes to the third time.

 

You must be a very special person to know so much about these things, to be so wise and so clear-headed. My wife gave me the chances she did because we had a very good marriage once (which I alone screwed up) and she loved me enough to try to salvage it. She is no doormat. On the contrary, she's a very strong and independent woman who knows well that she's better off without me. And she'll do well without me.

 

I'd sure like to know what your story is that makes you so smart and all-knowing. Obviously something that has turned you into a bitter person.

[JamesM]

 

It's funny, I came to this board for answers and advice and support -- and while I may have rejected all or most of it -- I have to say I'm pretty disappointed with the bitter words uttered by so many. I hope you had fun reading my story and then venting your spleen. And not just at me; you were bashing a few of the others who responded.

 

 

 

Oh, and a special round of applause for the pathetic losers among you who thought it a good idea to kick the crap out of my wife. Make you feel good? You, in particular, don't know $hit.

 

For those who offered some constructive feedback -- whether it's what I wanted to hear or not -- thank you. I don't mean to lump you in with all the bitter know-it-alls who obviously have life all figured out.

 

I do intend to keep posting, if only for the entertainment of you all.

 

The ironic thing with such a post that you have written....none of us know which category we fit in. All of us probably assume that we are not constructive. My guess is that you just turned off 99% of the people advising you.

 

I know it angered me.

 

My guess is that most everyone who took of their precious time to advise you feels dissed and will no longer take the time. Despite what you may think we DO try to help put people on the right track as we see it. While our advice may not apply to everyone, at least we took the time to care.

 

And when we advised you a couple of months ago, you ignored us. Why should we believe now will be any different?

 

Enjoy posting...I wonder how many of us feel the need to read your posts if your attitude is as you have written.

[pelicanpreacher]

Your wife may not have been a doormat when you met her or a doormat for the 20 good years of her life that she put into this marriage but the 3 shots to her heart she's suffered as a result of your infidelities has left her laying on the carpet with her soul bleeding out into the undermatting. So, I retract the statement insinuating that she may be dumb but she is definately so dumbfounded by the narcissistic man you've emerged as now that she's become paralyzed to completely shut the door on you and move on to the next chapter in her life. Until she recognizes you for what you've become, heals her heart, and regains the strength to rise again she will, however, forever remain the doormat you've now made her to be.

[Confoozed]

The ironic thing with such a post that you have written....none of us know which category we fit in. All of us probably assume that we are not constructive. My guess is that you just turned off 99% of the people advising you.

 

I know it angered me.

 

My guess is that most everyone who took of their precious time to advise you feels dissed and will no longer take the time. Despite what you may think we DO try to help put people on the right track as we see it. While our advice may not apply to everyone, at least we took the time to care.

 

And when we advised you a couple of months ago, you ignored us. Why should we believe now will be any different?

 

Enjoy posting...I wonder how many of us feel the need to read your posts if your attitude is as you have written.

 

 

The really ironic thing is you, James, were one of the ones I had in mind whose advice I found supportive. You didn't take potshots or gratutitous swipes at my character (yes, I'm sure many think me devoid of character) and you finally put a stop to the slagging of OWoman, which had nothing to do with this thread in the first place.

 

But if you figure I pissed everyone off by pointing out that there are a few bitter souls here who seem to take pleasure in foisting holier-than-thou insults on people who are truly struggling, that wasn't my intention. Sorry. This thread is long enough now anyway. I have nothing more to say that's going to add anything to it.

 

Thanks all for what you did offer.

 

Ciao

[Confoozed]

Your wife may not have been a doormat when you met her or a doormat for the 20 good years of her life that she put into this marriage but the 3 shots to her heart she's suffered as a result of your infidelities has left her laying on the carpet with her soul bleeding out into the undermatting. So, I retract the statement insinuating that she may be dumb but she is definately so dumbfounded by the narcissistic man you've emerged as now that she's become paralyzed to completely shut the door on you and move on to the next chapter in her life. Until she recognizes you for what you've become, heals her heart, and regains the strength to rise again she will, however, forever remain the doormat you've now made her to be.

 

That's fair, PP.

[pelicanpreacher]

In your soul search make sure to place being completely selfless, transparent, and trustworthy as the top 3 items on your list to accomplish and maybe the man who dreamed he was a butterfly will reawaken to the man he needs to be when the dream is over!

[Reggie]

your wife is such a doormat. No wonder you were bored.

 

This is pretty mean spirited. I imagine life with someone like you,BEG, would not be boring. Maybe painful, with this type of mean streak in you, though.

[Reggie]

Your wife may not have been a doormat when you met her or a doormat for the 20 good years of her life that she put into this marriage but the 3 shots to her heart she's suffered as a result of your infidelities has left her laying on the carpet with her soul bleeding out into the undermatting. So, I retract the statement insinuating that she may be dumb but she is definately so dumbfounded by the narcissistic man you've emerged as now that she's become paralyzed to completely shut the door on you and move on to the next chapter in her life. Until she recognizes you for what you've become, heals her heart, and regains the strength to rise again she will, however, forever remain the doormat you've now made her to be.

 

Give her time, PP. As you note, this was a major trauma. Walk a mile in her shoes. This was big time abuse and it grinds someone down.

[JustBreathe]

Give her 4 months apart from him.

 

That's about when I finally got fed up with the fence sitting. I asked myself "What am I crying for?" Slipped off that wedding ring and discovered there was a whole big world out there and it was actually much better not having to worry about my husband cheating on me. The load was lifted and I actually felt relieved.

 

In about 4 to six months she'll be okay so don't worry about her. Honestly. I mean that with all my heart. She will realize that he was not the only one bored wtih the marriage and wondering about the fescue on the other side of the fence. She will remember who she was before she got married.

 

It's alot better to lose a man who doesn't have faith in the marriage, who doesn't feel that commitment and does not love you enough, than to waste years hobbling along as best you can trying to live with the horrible things he did.

 

I chose to hobble. It was not a good decision. I have 3 more years to freedom. I hope she won't be as stupid as I was.

[81West]

The really ironic thing is you, James, were one of the ones I had in mind whose advice I found supportive. You didn't take potshots or gratutitous swipes at my character (yes, I'm sure many think me devoid of character) and you finally put a stop to the slagging of OWoman, which had nothing to do with this thread in the first place.

 

But if you figure I pissed everyone off by pointing out that there are a few bitter souls here who seem to take pleasure in foisting holier-than-thou insults on people who are truly struggling, that wasn't my intention. Sorry. This thread is long enough now anyway. I have nothing more to say that's going to add anything to it.

 

Thanks all for what you did offer.

 

Ciao

 

It's neither bitter or holier-than-though to call a self absorbed ass a self-absorbed ass. It is, in it's way, 'support'. If your shallow hand wringing and mea culpas utterly devoid of actual empathy for those you use don't pass the smell test here, they're unlikely to be all that useful in attaining your stated goals.

 

Most here are flexible thinkers and compassionate souls, but I for one find your weakness and seeming lack of self awareness hard not to react viscerally to.

[Reggie]

Give her 4 months apart from him.

 

That's about when I finally got fed up with the fence sitting. I asked myself "What am I crying for?" Slipped off that wedding ring and discovered there was a whole big world out there and it was actually much better not having to worry about my husband cheating on me. The load was lifted and I actually felt relieved.

 

In about 4 to six months she'll be okay so don't worry about her. Honestly. I mean that with all my heart. She will realize that he was not the only one bored wtih the marriage and wondering about the fescue on the other side of the fence. She will remember who she was before she got married.

 

It's alot better to lose a man who doesn't have faith in the marriage, who doesn't feel that commitment and does not love you enough, than to waste years hobbling along as best you can trying to live with the horrible things he did.

 

I chose to hobble. It was not a good decision. I have 3 more years to freedom. I hope she won't be as stupid as I was.

I agree with this. Once you are out and away fro the insanity, especially living with an NPD or the like, the fog begins to lift and you wonder waht took you so long. I was paralyzed worrying about the effect on my kids. But, letting them see my NPDXW treat me like crap for so longprobably did more damge than getting out. Just have to stay vigilant for their sake. They wiil be at my door in the near future, I'd bet. It will be open to them.

Court system is not good to dad's on the custody issue. At least they have a safe haven when they need it.

[pelicanpreacher]

As far as the narcissism goes, we all carry every character flaw known to man within our nature for each serves a purpose in our lives when confronted with physical, spiritual, mental, or emotional needs we seek to satisfy in our drive for survival. It is when we become so unbalanced by running amuck through overindulgence of our desires that we often lay waste and ruin to all around us so centering yourself should also be placed as a top priority on your "to do" list!

[OpenBook]

I do intend to keep posting, if only for the entertainment of you all.

 

This thread is long enough now anyway. I have nothing more to say that's going to add anything to it.

 

So... which is it, PushMe-PullYou? "Should I stay or should I go?" Have you always agonized over decisions like this, or is this just part of your current state? You seem to be doing the exact same thing to your W and OW. This part REALLY baffles me:

 

I did not ask if I could return home. I don't know if I want to. I don't know what I want.

 

The question to her was whether she'd be prepared to give it another go if, and only if, she was completely certain I was a new man, one who'd be there for her and in love with her and her only, someone who she could trust implicitly.

 

This sounds to me like emotional blackmail. You don't know what you want, yet you're playing on her emotions like this, dangling your "new man" theory in front of her like a carrot to a donkey. You want to make sure she'll take you back, while not making any promises to her yourself. HUH?!?

 

I'm getting the impression that you don't hold women in high regard, in general. You take them for granted, and you don't treat them as sentient beings. More like your personal pincushions. Am I wrong?

[DavNY]

This therapist of yours obviously is NOT a marriage counsellor and telling you to go for something on the side, to get it out of your system MAY be good for you, but it is NOT good for your marriage.

 

Nah, it wouldn't be good for me or my marriage.

[JamesM]

The really ironic thing is you, James, were one of the ones I had in mind whose advice I found supportive. You didn't take potshots or gratuitous swipes at my character (yes, I'm sure many think me devoid of character) and you finally put a stop to the slagging of OWoman, which had nothing to do with this thread in the first place.

 

Thank you. Not being arrogant, but I did assume I was one of the "good guys." I wanted to let you know that if you feel somewhat angry at certain posters, then it is best to address their posts and what you do not like, or forget it.

 

I have posted my story in the past, and I have had some mean spirited posts...at least IMO. I know the feeling of anger. Bare your soul and get beaten for it.

 

However, remember that many of these here are actually giving you insight into how your wife probably feels. The hurt and pain she has is what some of these are expressing as they themselves have been in her shoes.

 

But if you figure I pissed everyone off by pointing out that there are a few bitter souls here who seem to take pleasure in foisting holier-than-thou insults on people who are truly struggling, that wasn't my intention. Sorry. This thread is long enough now anyway. I have nothing more to say that's going to add anything to it.

 

Then address the few bitter souls.

 

A thing to remember as I said above, some of us who can be supportive have never been in a position like you or your wife. The advice you receive from all will be helpful. While I cannot express her pain, I can see why you did it and why she feels as she did. Yet for you to understand what you have done it is good to hear the type of words and anger that your wife would express if you allowed her to state her feelings.

 

The knowledge of what you did is in your head, but has it reached your heart...beyond the fact that you were caught? Or beyond the fact that you lost your family? Have you realized what pain you caused to OTHERS, or is the pain you feel yours alone?

 

I know some sound harsh, but under the circumstances, this may actually help you more than you think.

 

Thanks all for what you did offer.

 

Ciao

 

You are welcome. I did not say I was leaving.

[RecordProducer]

Confoozed, I don't think you're so confused about whom you want. It's obvious that neither woman makes you truly happy. You respect your wife for being a good person and mother, but you're obviously not in love with her. This is why you cheated in the first place. On the other hand, no matter how imperfect the OW, if you were in love with her, you wouldn't think about your wife now that you're out of the house. I think you were in fact miserable with your wife; you thought the OW would make you happier, but your love for her is not strong enough either.

 

I didn't have the impression that you love both women. I got the impression that you love your wife as a friend and the OW as excitement, but none of it is strong enough to help you make up your mind. As a matter of fact, if your love for any of these two women were true, you wouldn't procrastinate.

 

I think you want to go back to your wife because mentally you accept that it was a good marriage, you want your kids back into your life, you want your lifestyle back, and you want to be a decent person. You see yourself as a prick who made a huge mistake. You found two women to make the friend-and-lover combination. Only as a combination the two of them make you happy. Separated, they are like two separated shoes - useless. That's why you want to have them both, still. You are still with the OW, but want to have the wife, too.

 

What would really make you happy is to find everything you want in ONE woman. I am not talking about perfection. I am talking about a woman that you will truly love with all her flaws. You don't love these women - that's why you keep breaking their hearts.

 

It's also possible that your wife is not really in love with you anymore (if she ever was). Her ego is wounded, hut she doesn't seem to care too much. You said yourself that she isn't a doormat. I think she wants you back for the kids and the happy-family image. Perhaps you should both agree on how to be good parents regardless of your separation. You said she's a very good mom, so she should support your desire to be a good dad. You should both explain to the kids that you decided to live apart for a while and be just friends and enjoy life. And do it! Take your wife and kids out, have fun, laugh, talk... Maybe even the long-lost sparkle between you and her will return. Stop asking her for second chances - there are only so many second chances one can get. You're humiliating her and yourself and the OW (funny, nobody seems to think of the OW as a human being ).

 

So why is the OW not good now? Can you please elaborate? You ARE a young man; 44 is nothing. Many people marry in their late 30s and 40's for the first time. You still have a long life to live. It doesn't have to be one of these two women.

[Mr. Lucky]

Which one of you faultless people would be prepared to cast the first stone.

Faultless? I can't speak for anyone else, but me? Definitely not faultless. I think I sped on the way home from work today. I did not stick to my eating plan. And I forgot to call my wife this afternoon to see how her day was going.

 

What I have not done is cheat on my wife. You have and more than once. Since you've asked for advice, much of it will be judgemental within the context of the Infidelity Forum. Were I you, I'd take my lumps like a man.

And to be clear to he others, I did not ask if I could return home. I don't know if I want to. I don't know what I want.

 

The question to her was whether she'd be prepared to give it another go if, and only if, she was completely certain I was a new man, one who'd be there for her and in love with her and her only, someone who she could trust implicitly.

Why not do the work first? You'd have more credibility asking that question as a "new man" than you do now...

 

Mr. Lucky