my story

[pelicanpreacher]

I'm concerned here for not only do you have a dysfunctional marriage to end but you must be reprogrammed to undo years of psychologically ingrained cultural antiquity as well. Do you really have the strength of will to go to the extent of becoming a whole new person? It would be wonderful if you could as that may be the only way you can assure that your daughter won't follow in your shoes and make the same mistakes as well.

 

Don't get me wrong though, the inner discipline espoused by the Japanese culture is what has made Japan great throughout the centuries but to take it to the extreme of sentencing onself to a life of abuse for the sake of honor is not what your teachings are all about. This is probably why your parents were so dead set against your marriage for your husband shows no honor, doesn't understand the requirements of your culture, and hasn't adopted any of the cultural teachings of how to behave which has created the recipe for disaster unfolding before you.

 

So, you have two choices to achieve your happiness and fulfillment and that is to either divorce your husband and remarry within your culture or reprogram yourself so that you and your daughter can relate more effectively in the western world. You cannot straddle the fence on this else you will always find yourself mired with men like your husband or your OM every time you seek a relationship for entitlement whores will be the main type of men you'll attract.

[Athena]

I'm concerned here for not only do you have a dysfunctional marriage to end but you must be reprogrammed to undo years of psychologically ingrained cultural antiquity as well. Do you really have the strength of will to go to the extent of becoming a whole new person? It would be wonderful if you could as that may be the only way you can assure that your daughter won't follow in your shoes and make the same mistakes as well.

 

Don't get me wrong though, the inner discipline espoused by the Japanese culture is what has made Japan great throughout the centuries but to take it to the extreme of sentencing onself to a life of abuse for the sake of honor is not what your teachings are all about. This is probably why your parents were so dead set against your marriage for your husband shows no honor, doesn't understand the requirements of your culture, and hasn't adopted any of the cultural teachings of how to behave which has created the recipe for disaster unfolding before you.

 

So, you have two choices to achieve your happiness and fulfillment and that is to either divorce your husband and remarry within your culture or reprogram yourself so that you and your daughter can relate more effectively in the western world. You cannot straddle the fence on this else you will always find yourself mired with men like your husband or your OM every time you seek a relationship for entitlement whores will be the main type of men you'll attract.

 

Oh Master PelicanPreacher, I bow before you! No, seriously, I think you said this very well. And you, Desertmoon please take note. Pelican is right about what he says about your situation... the reason why you went dead inside, is because you are trying to hold two opposing viewpoints at the same time, and it is killing you -- so either switch to a Japanese H who would understand you and honor you, or YOU switch your mentality and beliefs to modern America! You cannot be living an American life and marriage with a Japanese honor system dictating your ways. It's at least one or the other. Your man or your beliefs... maybe both?!

[pelicanpreacher]

I think I went part Yoda for a sec!

[jwi71]

Desertmoon,

 

Why are you here? What do you hope to gain, realize or achieve?

How can I among others help you in this?

[desertmoon]

No, it wasn't hard 2 understand. But you missed my point. Your marriages are still 2gether, true. But what kind of marriages are they? Even if the bubble never bursts and your spouse and the OM's W never find out about you, what kind of life is that? (and I don't believe the lie will last indefinitely).

 

I did not miss your point, 2long...it is obvious that both (the OM's and mine) our marriages are not ideal, so say the very least...our marriages are probably very bad, in the eyes of many people....but it is what it is....

 

You might be surprised 2 hear me say that I think that the "I have stopped figuring it out" is the saddest part of your statement above. We humans are are most fulfilled when we're problem-solving, when we're "life-solving", when we're truly pursuing happiness and enlightenment. It is sad that you appear 2 be giving that up.

 

Thank you for your insight....I have never talked about my situation with anyone...it is unsettling to have to confront the emotions i thought i done away with and the anger and disdain from other posters

 

And, only by truly knowing you may be about 2 lose those things you think you have in these relationships, can you understand the value of your experiences 2 your personal growth.

 

I only value my daughter....maybe I am in a rampage, so to speak , like a serial killer who wants to be caught and therefore goes in a killing spree....I posted before that maybe everything needs to blow up on my face and i lose them--maybe I want them to leave me..like somebody here said...I dont spend time pondering about those things....perhaps I should...

[desertmoon]

Desertmoon,

 

Why are you here? What do you hope to gain, realize or achieve?

How can I among others help you in this?

 

At first I was just reacting to Lorenzo's story...then I thought, what the heck I will share my story, too....I did not really think people would want to help me...or that I would actually take the advises and the criticisms to heart....when PelicanPreacher first responded to my posts, I cried so hard..I told myself , i was stupid for opening up to these strangers.....I said I was tired...and I am....but I am drawn to this site.....

[Athena]

At first I was just reacting to Lorenzo's story...then I thought, what the heck I will share my story, too....I did not really think people would want to help me...or that I would actually take the advises and the criticisms to heart....when PelicanPreacher first responded to my posts, I cried so hard..I told myself , i was stupid for opening up to these strangers.....I said I was tired...and I am....but I am drawn to this site.....

 

I think you tried to ignore the marital problems away, and by not discussing it, not looking at it, could pretend it wasn't really there... you learned to live with it. But when you posted on this site, through the various posts you received (criticism, as well as encouragement and direction) you were forced to begin processing it all and it opened up floodgates and all that stuffed emotion inside you.

 

You need to do this.

[jwi71]

At first I was just reacting to Lorenzo's story...then I thought, what the heck I will share my story, too....I did not really think people would want to help me...or that I would actually take the advises and the criticisms to heart....when PelicanPreacher first responded to my posts, I cried so hard..I told myself , i was stupid for opening up to these strangers.....I said I was tired...and I am....but I am drawn to this site.....

 

Yes, people do care. Even about nameless, faceless strangers who post very real and utterly devastating stories. We are all survivors of some sort of calamity. For me, my wife had an A (affair). But enough about me. Let's talk about YOU.

 

I also noticed that you failed to answer my question in your reply to me.

 

Why are you here?

What do you hope to gain, realize or achieve?

Why did you post in the first place?

Do YOU even know?

[pelicanpreacher]

Pelicanpreacher:

 

My H is in bed watching TV as I am typing this....the whole evening I kept looking at him--at dinner, when he was on the phone, when he was talking to my daughter and now watching TV from the bed....I feel no anger...It is like I have no strong emotion of any kind except sadness when I am reminded of the first time I found out....

 

I mentioned before, OM have said to me I am not passionate about anything....almost like I do not care....but I do care....my mother used to tell me when I was a little girl not to cry in front of people, do not show emotion...because when you do, you have lost the battle....

 

When your mother spoke of withholding your emotions I hope it meant when confronting strangers. It is inhuman to never ever express emotions, especially with those within the tight sphere of family upon which you rely for love, support, and sustenance. Even the most conservative of the muslim society allows women to remove their birkas when within the confines of the residence to specifically allow both spouses to freely and openly interact without suppression of emotion to promote a healthy relationship.

[desertmoon]

Yes, people do care. Even about nameless, faceless strangers who post very real and utterly devastating stories. We are all survivors of some sort of calamity. For me, my wife had an A (affair). But enough about me. Let's talk about YOU.

 

I also noticed that you failed to answer my question in your reply to me.

 

Why are you here? I was following Lorenzo's story and decided to share mine

What do you hope to gain, realize or achieve? I didn't/don't have any expectations

Why did you post in the first place? because I decided to do something not so deliberate and utterly thoughtless

Do YOU even know?NO, I do not REALLY know

 

Why are you asking me all these questions?

[desertmoon]

When your mother spoke of withholding your emotions I hope it meant when confronting strangers. It is inhuman to never ever express emotions, especially with those within the tight sphere of family upon which you rely for love, support, and sustenance. Even the most conservative of the muslim society allows women to remove their birkas when within the confines of the residence to specifically allow both spouses to freely and openly interact without suppression of emotion to promote a healthy relationship.

 

not strangers---but not to cry or lose emotional control in front of your enemies or people who cause you pain, or did you wrong ...

[desertmoon]

jwi71, you remind of my family a little bit...i have to explain why i did that, what do i hope to get ..etc....like, i said before....sometimes, one only wants to breathe, to exhale...to be....without having to explain.......

[jwi71]

Why are you here? I was following Lorenzo's story and decided to share mine

 

Tell me about Lorenzo's story. More specifically, what about Lorenzo's story prompted you to post?

 

What do you hope to gain, realize or achieve? I didn't/don't have any expectations

 

Yes you did. You expected to be disappointed, ignored and further debased. I hope we have failed you in that.

 

Why did you post in the first place? because I decided to do something not so deliberate and utterly thoughtless

 

What is deliberate and utterly thoughtless? And to whom? And why does it need to change or stop?

 

Do YOU even know?NO, I do not REALLY know

 

That's ok.

 

Why are you asking me all these questions?

 

Because I want to help you if I can. However I am not sure what you want or hope to achieve. So I ask questions.

 

All for the ultimate goal of helping YOU. Most everyone here has that goal in mind for YOU.

[jwi71]

jwi71, you remind of my family a little bit...i have to explain why i did that, what do i hope to get ..etc....like, i said before....sometimes, one only wants to breathe, to exhale...to be....without having to explain.......

 

I will take that as a compliment. Families tend to have your best interests at heart despite what one may think. Just ask your daughter what she thinks of you

 

You have no obligation to answer me. In fact, you can "ignore me" if you no longer wish to even see what I think. I won't be offended.

 

I would accept that you are here merely to vent if it weren't for one little thing. You answer the questions. A "Venter" does not.

 

I would PM you but I cannot. I thought that was enabled at 25 posts? Obviously not...

 

Keep posting as long as you feel it has value for you.

[desertmoon]

Tell me about Lorenzo's story. More specifically, what about Lorenzo's story prompted you to post?

 

You can read Lorenzo's story-or maybe you already have. His story was like a soap opera--it was ongoing, fluid...and ultimately, I identified with SOME of the emotions, if not all....

 

 

 

Yes you did. You expected to be disappointed, ignored and further debased. I hope we have failed you in that.

Well, since you knew the answer and apparently know me...why did you ask?

 

 

 

What is deliberate and utterly thoughtless? And to whom? And why does it need to change or stop?

 

To me. I don't know anybody here to think they are deliberate or not or thoughtless or thoughtful....it probably needs to change or stop because it is exhausting to be grilled like you are doing to me--but like I said before this site draws me--i think I have discovered my drug of choice.

 

I do not know if I need help...I am not asking for help...I am just telling my story and responding to the posts....most hit the very core of me-and make me reconsider how I have been handling this situation and living my life---others, repel me because my pain is my own-nobody can tell me they know how I feel---just like I cant tell anybody, I know how they feel....If needing help and being receptive to "help" is a requirement here...please let me know so I can stop posting...because I truly do not know if I do...I just wanted to tell my story... to exhale......

[desertmoon]

I will take that as a compliment. Families tend to have your best interests at heart despite what one may think. Just ask your daughter what she thinks of you

 

You have no obligation to answer me. In fact, you can "ignore me" if you no longer wish to even see what I think. I won't be offended.

 

I would accept that you are here merely to vent if it weren't for one little thing. You answer the questions. A "Venter" does not.

 

Keep posting as long as you feel it has value for you.

 

I know what my daughter thinks of me. You are right, I am not obligated to answer to you--but I prefer to answer you, and I am not worried about whether I will offend you or not.

 

You have everybody categorized? Venter, etc? I understand the need to do that--it makes life easier--but I believe that is a very simplistic. But it IS your choice....

[jwi71]

Then I must apologize.

I assumed you were unhappy and looking for...something.

However the vitriol and attitude received in response and demonstrated throughout this thread are unnecessary and unproductive for me.

I wish you the best.

Good luck to you and may you continue to live a happy and fruitful life.

[65tr6]

Really? are you gagging? What about my story is so "nauseating"? Nobody can tell me how painful it is to be betrayed..how humiliating it is to fight for something and in the end realize that prize was worth nothing! I know you will ask...so why are you doing it? knowing your OM has a wife who is just like you waiting at home---no, nobody is like me....I do not know why he is cheating on his wife...I never asked...I do not know what kind of relationship he has with his wife....

And do you realise you are the doing the exact same thing to OM's wife that your husband did to you before ? What did she do to you ?

[Owl]

DM, I'd read through your thread the other day, but was considering this as I glanced at the latest posts...where are you at as far as individual counseling/therapy?

 

Normally, I don't recommend IC for someone experiencing marital problems...IC's don't care about the marriage...they only treat the person in front of them, and often they don't consider looking for solutions that would bolster both the marriage and the person they're counseling.

 

In your case...your "ice queen syndrome" seems to be the biggest issue that's going on here. Your complete lack of feelings for your H, for anyone else involved in the situation, or the possible outcomes of this is potentially both result and cause in this situation. It's beyond not caring...it sounds like it's more than just lassitude...it sounds like borderline apathy to life overall.

 

I think that you need help...help to let get to a point where you DO start feeling things again.

 

I'm not bashing you...this isn't saying that everything is your fault.

 

I'm saying that you sound like you've been so emotionally traumatized as a result of your childhood and your husband's affairs that you don't know HOW to feel things like you should at this point. I think you need help.

 

I hope you choose to get help.

 

Right now...that ice queen syndrome is your biggest enemy. It's what is seperating you from EVERYTHING else...

[desertmoon]

And do you realise you are the doing the exact same thing to OM's wife that your husband did to you before ? What did she do to you ?

 

Yes. I think I have said that. She didn't do anything to me..just like all of the others, including me, who didnt do anything to the other women....i do not know if you noticed--having "done something" to the other person is not a requisite for that person to have an affair with your spouse...So, I am not sure if you really expected an answer to that question, unless of course it was rhetorical question designed to make me feel guilty?

[desertmoon]

DM, I'd read through your thread the other day, but was considering this as I glanced at the latest posts...where are you at as far as individual counseling/therapy?

 

I quit individual counseling long time ago....I do not like telling my story to people I actually know....counselor, psychiatrist, etc...I'm braver and freer in this arena...

 

 

In your case...your "ice queen syndrome" seems to be the biggest issue that's going on here. Your complete lack of feelings for your H, for anyone else involved in the situation, or the possible outcomes of this is potentially both result and cause in this situation. It's beyond not caring...it sounds like it's more than just lassitude...it sounds like borderline apathy to life overall.

 

borderline apathy to life....yes...I do not care much about anything, or anyone....except my daughter....I do not wish people harm or hurt... but I think if bad things happen to them, I will be philosophical about it...

 

 

I'm not bashing you...this isn't saying that everything is your fault

 

I do not think you are bashing me...thank you for your thoughts.

 

I'm saying that you sound like you've been so emotionally traumatized as a result of your childhood and your husband's affairs that you don't know HOW to feel things like you should at this point. I think you need help.

 

I do not think anything was so traumatic about my child--sure my parents were strict but how my husband treated me was traumatic.

 

Right now...that ice queen syndrome is your biggest enemy. It's what is seperating you from EVERYTHING else...

 

It is also the only thing that allows me to get up in the morning and be a functioning human being....

[pelicanpreacher]

 

borderline apathy to life....yes...I do not care much about anything, or anyone....except my daughter....I do not wish people harm or hurt... but I think if bad things happen to them, I will be philosophical about it...

 

I do not think anything was so traumatic about my child--sure my parents were strict but how my husband treated me was traumatic.

 

 

And here lies the crux of why you feel no guilt about imposing yourself on another woman's marriage. You've now adopted an existentialist philosphy on relationships to apathize the sympathy you'd normally feel for the pain of infidelity upon others because your husband has so obliterated all common boundaries of decency unto your own marriage that at this point you no longer remember what it feels like to truly enjoy having your most sacred boundaries respected. After living in this numbed state of existence as long as you have its not surprising that you can no longer empathize with the boundaries set forth in another's marriage and can thus only philosophize on the impact of your involvement when the you're the bad thing that happens to someone else!

 

For the love of GOD, at least when your daughter leaves for college, get out of this marriage to live by yourself and for yourself long enough to completely detoxify from the slow acting poison currently coursing through your veins because your perspective on life has become too clouded by its languishing effect to allow you to consider yourself worthy of acting in your own best interests. Currently your sense of self is so blanched by all you've endured that any other relationship that you mght engage in the future while married or not is bound to be corrupted by the baggage of infidelities inflicted by your husband over the years because your psyche is too overwhelmed by past negativity to recognize the good from the bad from the ugly right now. Worse than that, until you become centered enough to re-establish immutable boundaries of your own again you will always attract and fall victim to those like your husband, OM, and any other entitlement whores strolling their wares on main street.

[Owl]

DM, here's the thing...you're NOT getting up in the morning and functioning as a human being.

 

Human beings care about those around them. They CARE about those who are hurt by their choices. They CARE about their lives in general.

 

You don't.

 

I can understand why it's far easier to tell your story to a bunch of faceless strangers on the internet than it is to someone you get to know.

 

Because when you get to know someone...when there's a face, and a person associated with it...then you start to CARE about what they think of you. You can't hide behind the facade you generate...

 

It's easy to hide behind that facade on the internet...you can post exactly what you want us to see about you. You can create a "fantasy you"...as opposed to the real person that an IC would see and get to know.

 

But that distance also prevents true change and healing.

 

And you know that.

 

You don't WANT to change. You like the ice queen mask.

 

But...while you're wearing it...you're teaching your daughter to wear it too. Is that what you want for her? Your life? Your cold-hearted views on things? Do you want to teach her that it's better to keep people at a distance, and wear that mask...rather than teach her to love and care and LIVE?

 

They often tell young men something...and my years on this planet have shown me the truth of this, regardless of what you you might hope...

 

"If you want to know what a woman will be like when she's older...look at her mother."

 

I surely didn't believe it when I met my wife.

 

21 years later...I see the truth in that statement.

 

Do you want your daughter to grow up to be the "ice queen" too?

[Athena]

Hi Desertmoon,

 

I hereby second Owl and PelicanPreacher's above posts. Please get help for yourself. Try open up to a counselor. They DO NOT JUDGE YOU.

[desertmoon]

I took time off thinking about the things the were brought up here...reading and responding instead to other posts. I am scheduled to meet up with OM this coming week. I am not looking forward to it really...OM has been really pushing for more time with me....Husband has also been acting strange--seems always available..and keeps talking about where I would want us to live when the "baby" (our daughter) goes to college...

 

Maybe I DO need to be alone...seems strange...after all these years....I feel like I am cracking...