my story

[Athena]

I took time off thinking about the things the were brought up here...reading and responding instead to other posts. I am scheduled to meet up with OM this coming week. I am not looking forward to it really...OM has been really pushing for more time with me....Husband has also been acting strange--seems always available..and keeps talking about where I would want us to live when the "baby" (our daughter) goes to college...

 

Maybe I DO need to be alone...seems strange...after all these years....I feel like I am cracking...

 

That's a good thing, right? -- you 'cracking' or 'thawing out' ?

 

Desertmoon, what do you mean you need to be alone, when your H is talking about your future together? You mean you really don't want him? He seems to be trying particularly hard now for some reason -- what's up with him? Is he 'between' girlfriends or something?!

[Saville]

I've been dead inside. I've walked through life, a seemingly functioning person, but felt little. I accomplished nothing and my life for that period of time was a shocking waste. The fact that I even know now that it was shocking shows the growth in me. I could get angry, and apparently looked like I was doing all the right things that a person does in a life, but I was the outsider looking in. However, I also, like you, knew everything. No one could tell me what to do, or feel, because they didn't understand...they weren't me after all. This isn't a judgment, but rather a recognition of how certain of us protect ourselves. I was tired all the time, too, absolutely no energy. I thought, if only I had energy I could deal with my life; I might feel something. It took a very caring person, a person who staked a great deal on my future to get me to realize just how far I had closed myself off, and just how ruinous my life had been. They poked and prodded me incessantly to stand up for myself, to create boundaries, to identify needs...I cried copious tears, but also began to find a real smile, again, and laughter. It, the healing, is a process, it can't be rushed, there is no time quotient. But, you have to start somewhere. You have started here, whether you realize it or not. Like a messy room, you pick a corner and begin to clean, and eventually "that daunting task" doesn't look impossible. You will backslide, you will become complacent, and for this reason you need to find someone, somewhere, who will act as your champion. Neither the OM, nor your spouse, are that person, and so in your case you will need to look elsewhere. I don't know about counseling, I have no experience with it, but there is help, you only have to be open to it. Reading books is all very well, and helpful, but the problem with reading books is...we really only understand what we are ready to understand.

 

What helped with me was I set boundaries, and began to ask myself the question..."what are my needs." Asking the question is enough at this point; eventually the answers will become apparent. Also, I finished a project that I always wanted to do, but never had the energy to complete. I decided that this project would be my cause, that no matter how I felt I would get it done. It didn't have to be my magnum opus, it only had to be completed. I made everyone involved keep their end of the bargain, even making some mad at me in the process, but I got it done...and WOW, what a glorious first. I didn't even know how much the project meant to me until it was finished, but it created a momentum in me that, in turn, allowed me to feel more deeply.

 

The thing is, we ARE feeling, that is a process we can't halt. What we do is suppress it, and that in turn makes us ill, sometimes physically and certainly psychologically. Have faith, desertMoon, this will happen for you. There will be pain as all this suppressed feeling comes to the fore, but it will also bring with it a goodly portion of joy.

 

Saville

[Marteka]

I felt so sad reading this.

 

DM, I identified with your cultural background, being Asian myself and having seen my own parents play out the philandering husband-victimised wife stereotype for decades. I identified with the way you have cut yourself off from your emotions (it is in a way the easy option: if you don't feel, then you can't hurt; but you also forego the experience of any joy or love).

 

I was in a long term relationship myself and was serially cheated on to the point that I became hard and brittle. Eventually I walked away and began a very long process of healing. I am still healing, still exploring, still testing love, and admittedly I am doing my share of reckless things in the process, maybe a bit like you.

 

I agree with Athena and Pelikanpreacher that you should leave the relationship, but only you can find the strength to do that. Waking up every morning and going through the motions takes huge effort but dare I say not actual courage. Someone who is as thoughtful, reflective and profound as you I think surely has the courage to do this, but I guess you will do it eventually in your way and on your terms.

 

Please do not accept the judgements of others. Only listen to advice that resonates with you (that goes for mine too!!).

 

In our society, it is deemed utterly unacceptable to cheat. We even give it a completely dishonourable tag. If one has been cheated on, then apparently it gives one full licence to dump on anyone else who has cheated or been involved with a cheater, in whatever circumstances. Many people who hold strong views on the religious sanctity of marriage conveniently seem to forget the tenet that it is not for one human being to judge another.

 

I have been cheated on...whatever happened between my ex and me remains between us, it is for no-one else to judge. I hold no more grudges against my ex and even feel slightly irritated by people who do on my behalf!

 

Finally, some may psychoanalyse this and say that I was cheated on because my mother was cheated on and perhaps this might even cause you guilt with regards to your relationship with your daughter. Well, my mother was the kindest soul I know, and I place on her no responsibility for the path I chose. My father made his share of mistakes and I have completely forgiven him for those - it was nice that he has since apologised.

 

Please take care.

 

Please stop taking other's judgements to heart.

 

Only you know what is best for you...!

[pelicanpreacher]

Smile DM for the moon in you shall not be blown to and fro by the wind or obscured by clouds of doubt but instead, shall remain steadfast in place as it glows upon the desert!

[Owl]

Please do not accept the judgements of others. Only listen to advice that resonates with you (that goes for mine too!!).

 

And...

 

Only you know what is best for you...!

 

Would utterly negate any value in any kind of therapy, counseling, or external advice or support of any kind.

 

Why bother posting on a board...why bother reading anyone's responses at all...if you believe that the only person who can solve your problems is you? Listening to advice that only 'resonates with you' means that you're only looking for responses that support your predetermined viewpoint...ergo...there's no value in anything responses that don't match what you're already intending/planning/seeking.

 

Sorry Marteka...but I've got to completely disagree with this.

 

I do agree with ignoring insults...but...disregarding advice just because you don't like it makes coming here a totally pointless thing...there's no chance to learn from other's similar experiences in that mindset.

[Saville]

Owl, well said!

 

Saville

[desertmoon]

I've been dead inside. I've walked through life, a seemingly functioning person, but felt little. I accomplished nothing and my life for that period of time was a shocking waste. The fact that I even know now that it was shocking shows the growth in me. I could get angry, and apparently looked like I was doing all the right things that a person does in a life, but I was the outsider looking in. However, I also, like you, knew everything. No one could tell me what to do, or feel, because they didn't understand...they weren't me after all. This isn't a judgment, but rather a recognition of how certain of us protect ourselves. I was tired all the time, too, absolutely no energy. I thought, if only I had energy I could deal with my life;

 

Hello Saville! Thank you for your insights. I need to let you know that while it may look like I am a walking zombie, I really am not. I am very successful in my field of work ( and love it) and I enjoy a lot of things--theater, the Arts, traveling, coffee, books, etc....I just think that I have released myself from the pain of my husband's infidelity...and yes, it is quite exhausting to explain that I am not "dead inside"--but that I have chosen to live my life outside of the pain...

 

What helped with me was I set boundaries, and began to ask myself the question..."what are my needs."

Yes, I have asked myself that question and I have decided that having a "real" husband is not a need for me....being able to take care of my daughter is; to be financially stable is...to be able to do the things I love is...and to maintain the status quo is...I am not encumbered or pained by his continued infidelity..not anymore....

 

Do I think I deserve a better husband? not really...my existence does not revolve around having a spouse...or not...

 

But I thank you, sincerely, for your thoughts.....

[OpenBook]

my existence does not revolve around having a spouse...or not...

 

But it DOES revolve around having a spouse! (or seems to...) You have chosen to deaden your emotions in order to stay in your marriage. You yourself cited the reasons why you stay --

 

Yes, I have asked myself that question and I have decided that having a "real" husband is not a need for me....being able to take care of my daughter is; to be financially stable is...to be able to do the things I love is...and to maintain the status quo is... I am not encumbered or pained by his continued infidelity..not anymore...

 

You seem to think that you will lose these things if you leave your marriage. So it looks to me like your existence IS based on "having a spouse."

 

Look, I'm not berating you for the choices you've made... who am I to tell you they're not the right ones? It just seems that your claim directly contradicts how you are actually living out your life. Am I reading you wrong?

[desertmoon]

But it DOES revolve around having a spouse! (or seems to...) You have chosen to deaden your emotions in order to stay in your marriage. You yourself cited the reasons why you stay --

 

Hmmm...by revolve, I meant, my daily existence is not base on whether he will kiss me good morning or whether he will tell me he loves me or have sex with me...those are things that are not important to me FROM him---BUT it is a partnership..we are good, civil individuals and parents---there is no need for divorce---my H , I know will destroy me (or at least try to, anyway) if I will file for divorce. I have no need for it...i think I am ok where I am at--even though, other people can't, don't or won't see it that way... However, I do not know what the future holds--maybe I will have a case of "i deserve more" and want out..who knows?

 

You seem to think that you will lose these things if you leave your marriage. So it looks to me like your existence IS based on "having a spouse."

 

I will lose 50%, at least, that's for sure...but I have since realize I am very marketable--and will be financially ok with or without my H--the things that I could never do was travel alone, go to the opera, the ballet, meet people on my own....all of that were contingent upon my H...well...not anymore--

 

Look, I'm not berating you for the choices you've made... who am I to tell you they're not the right ones? It just seems that your claim directly contradicts how you are actually living out your life. Am I reading you wrong?

 

I don't know if you are reading me wrong....I am not dead inside....I have said before that when my H cheated, something died inside of me...Somebody have asked me what am I here for..I said just to be...just to tell my story...and i beleive it was confusing to him that i was not seeking out help...I said I don't know if I need help...and it is ok if you think of me the way you think of me--

[desertmoon]

Hello Marteka! Happy New Year! Sorry for not responding to your post right away---I do not take the words and emotions expressed here for granted--I do ponder upon them and I want to thank you for taking the time to share your thought with me....

 

I felt so sad reading this.

 

 

I believe at some point one has to learn to let go and let the other person be and you have to love yourself enough to allow joy and love to come in your life from outside of that person's world--to most people it is divorce--to me, it is learning to cut the emotional ties that bound me to that person....

 

I think men are really quite basic--it is almost laughable, if not sad...what they can't have, they want. As an OW there is nothing sadder than a married man demanding fidelity and commitment from an OW. MY husband, (in his 40's)-will forever try and make up for his mistakes--at least, that's what he thinks he is doing. He does not understand he has lost me...but he is a man and wants what he can't have anymore....so he continues to try and woe me over---BUT in the meantime continues to cheat..because he has "needs" I am not fulfilling...

 

Marteka, I hope this new year brings you joy and love....thank you, again...

[Owl]

DM, I wanted to repost my thoughts to you from last week...I'm curious if you've considered them at all.

 

DM, here's the thing...you're NOT getting up in the morning and functioning as a human being.

 

Human beings care about those around them. They CARE about those who are hurt by their choices. They CARE about their lives in general.

 

You don't.

 

I can understand why it's far easier to tell your story to a bunch of faceless strangers on the internet than it is to someone you get to know.

 

Because when you get to know someone...when there's a face, and a person associated with it...then you start to CARE about what they think of you. You can't hide behind the facade you generate...

 

It's easy to hide behind that facade on the internet...you can post exactly what you want us to see about you. You can create a "fantasy you"...as opposed to the real person that an IC would see and get to know.

 

But that distance also prevents true change and healing.

 

And you know that.

 

You don't WANT to change. You like the ice queen mask.

 

But...while you're wearing it...you're teaching your daughter to wear it too. Is that what you want for her? Your life? Your cold-hearted views on things? Do you want to teach her that it's better to keep people at a distance, and wear that mask...rather than teach her to love and care and LIVE?

 

They often tell young men something...and my years on this planet have shown me the truth of this, regardless of what you you might hope...

 

"If you want to know what a woman will be like when she's older...look at her mother."

 

I surely didn't believe it when I met my wife.

 

21 years later...I see the truth in that statement.

 

Do you want your daughter to grow up to be the "ice queen" too?

 

[desertmoon]

Hello Owl! I thought it was futile to respond to someone who has relegated me to be less than human..but since you asked, I will try...

 

DM, here's the thing...you're NOT getting up in the morning and functioning as a human being.

 

Human beings care about those around them. They CARE about those who are hurt by their choices. They CARE about their lives in general.

 

You don't.

 

I honestly do not know what to say to this. I do not know how you can say I am not "functioning as a human being"---Just because I have my emotions in check? I am perplexed how you can make that judgment call....somebody here said about me being apathetic to life and I said 'maybe I am..." i don't really know...am I less of a human being because I understand human weakness and fallibility and do not go NUTS over those things anymore?

 

I can understand why it's far easier to tell your story to a bunch of faceless strangers on the internet than it is to someone you get to know.

 

Because when you get to know someone...when there's a face, and a person associated with it...then you start to CARE about what they think of you. You can't hide behind the facade you generate...

Owl, I thought THAT was pretty obvious. You actually did not have to point that out to me. I am here because it IS virtual-and people like you get to have a chance to pass judgment and feel good about it and get to channel your aggression to people like me. And vice-versa.

 

You are wrong about me not telling someone face-to-face because then I had to care about what they think about me. I was in psych care for months--with a team of doctors-psychiatrist, neurologist, nutritionist, etc. I refused to talked to them about what was going on in my head or what happened because I did not care about what they had to say---I did not believe in them. There was no facade, I was profoundly sad and broken and I stopped eating and did not sleep and did not talk. Everybody thought I had lost it, but I was acutely aware of everything. I just couldnt talk about it-it was too much to bear...too much to hear myself talk about it...

 

It's easy to hide behind that facade on the internet...you can post exactly what you want us to see about you. You can create a "fantasy you"...as opposed to the real person that an IC would see and get to know.

True. I can say the same thing to just about anyone here, no? Even you. Is the "persona" you have created a "fantasy you"?

 

But that distance also prevents true change and healing.

True change and healing--what is that really? can you tell me? Who are you to tell me I am not healed or changed?

 

And you know that.

You don't WANT to change. You like the ice queen mask.

I do not know if I do not want to change or if I want to change. I live life one day at a time. I do not like nor dislike the "ice queen mask" label. My H calls me that. It has no bearing on me.

 

It is strange, that one cannot just express not knowing what one wants without someone like you, Owl , saying, YOU DO NOT WANT TO CHANGE!

 

But...while you're wearing it...you're teaching your daughter to wear it too. Is that what you want for her? Your life? Your cold-hearted views on things? Do you want to teach her that it's better to keep people at a distance, and wear that mask...rather than teach her to love and care and LIVE?

 

My H calls me "ice queen" because I won't have sex with him---seriously,Owl-I think there other things in life to be passionate about--the arts, helping the poor, the sick, etc....sex..well..it's overrated.

 

They often tell young men something...and my years on this planet have shown me the truth of this, regardless of what you you might hope...

 

"If you want to know what a woman will be like when she's older...look at her mother."

 

I surely didn't believe it when I met my wife.

 

21 years later...I see the truth in that statement.

 

Do you want your daughter to grow up to be the "ice queen" too?

My daughter is a better person that I am. I hope that when she grows up to be a woman, she would never lose herself because somebody lied or cheated on her--that her life and her self-worth is not dependent upon that one person and that she will be able to let that person go and let him be without bitterness. And if she grows up physically looking just like me....well.., I am not so bad..i think she will be just fine. And if she chooses a career just like mine....well..then I know she won't starve.

[atwitsend]

You have no idea how your daughter will react. She is a completely different person. But I will tell you my wife is exactly like her mom.

[desertmoon]

I just really want to thank all of you who have posted here on my thread. I want you to know I value all of your thoughts and insights. I have spent hours pondering over them---at times, marveling at how enlightened some of you are and at times feeling defensive (like in Owl's case--my apologies, Owl) because he hit a raw nerve. Other times, crying because I am forced to confront my mistakes, my excuses, my pain and heaving a sigh of relief when I realized I am still ok....still eating, still sleeping...still functioning...even with the truth...(thanks pelicanpreacher, athena, marazul and all the others, you know who you are....)..

 

Again, thank you and sorry for the times I have been less receptive.

[shippy]

This is your life. For all you know, it is the only life you'll ever have the chance to experience. The only time you'll ever get to spend on planet Earth. Ditch the sleepwalking zombie set adrift on a calm sea of bleakyness routine. You are an American individual, not some boxed up cultural ornament. Vision quest, spirit animal, cowboy movie marathon, whatever; find some inspiration in your life and get on with it.

 

You're missing the best parts! Why you want to miss the best parts?

 

Let me get this straight, your parental units would rather you be boxed, in a loveless dead end, for the rest of your precious precious life, than loose face? Please, that is soooooo weak. So weak! Nowhere is it written in any sane society that you must let yourself be pushed around. Say NO to insanity. If you loved them, if you cared about them, you'd show them what a strong self-actualized woman does in a bad situation. Teach them the lesson. They gave you life, now you can show them what it means to be alive. Its win win. Oh, your daughter and soon to be ex husband would also be much much better off.

 

There is so much blazzing beauty and verve in this world. Don't be a douche bag, go get some verve! Don't be all like "I'm dead inside", because that is just dumb. I'm sorry but that is just dumb. You, moon, are the wake up call for that whole little twisted village you're living in. Honestly it is a brilliant opportunity to help the people around you to wake the f up.

 

So, since this post is a little silly, and even though I'm 35, I'll end with some straight high school advice:

 

There is an album called Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots by the Flaming Lips. You, Dessert Moon, should study that album.

[desertmoon]

This is your life. For all you know, it is the only life you'll ever have the chance to experience. The only time you'll ever get to spend on planet Earth. Ditch the sleepwalking zombie set adrift on a calm sea of bleakyness routine. You are an American individual, not some boxed up cultural ornament. Vision quest, spirit animal, cowboy movie marathon, whatever; find some inspiration in your life and get on with it.

 

Shippy, perhaps before you fire your barrage of insults and verbal abuse you should read or at least scheme through some of my posts--maybe you will find out that I do not think of myself as a victim (not have felt that for a long while), nor do I see myself 'adrift", or a "walking zombie". I enjoy a lot of things as I have mentioned before. Perhaps the problem lies on the fact that you think I should be in a relationship where the man is faithful to me and I am faithful to him and we live happily ever after...well...shippy, I do not have that...I do not crave that...not now...I am not saying not ever...I am just not there yet... I live my life one day at a time. I do not spend countless hours asking myself if I am happy, where am I going--I just live for the moment...and live it well-at least according to my standards. I do no waste my time looking for answers for qustions that really do not have answers or answers that I know would not satisfy me. It is a waste of energy--

 

You're missing the best parts! Why you want to miss the best parts?

Really, I am? and do YOU know the BEST parts? Do you care to share it with me?

 

Let me get this straight, your parental units would rather you be boxed, in a loveless dead end, for the rest of your precious precious life, than loose face? Please, that is soooooo weak. So weak! Nowhere is it written in any sane society that you must let yourself be pushed around. Say NO to insanity. If you loved them, if you cared about them, you'd show them what a strong self-actualized woman does in a bad situation. Teach them the lesson. They gave you life, now you can show them what it means to be alive. Its win win. Oh, your daughter and soon to be ex husband would also be much much better off.

Who said my parents would rather that I stay in a loveless marriage? Somebody said that here, not me...I suspect it was said after all--love and marriage is more or less a western concept until relatively, recent. Think about it...basing a union of a lifetime on a something that is a volatile emotion such as love, no wonder--affairs and divorces happen. But I digress, the issue of shame is MY issue(at least, in this situation), not my parents---after all, I insisted on marrying this man. I just did not/do not want to deal with the family...the less people know, the easier to handle---at least, to me....

 

There is so much blazzing beauty and verve in this world. Don't be a douche bag, go get some verve! Don't be all like "I'm dead inside", because that is just dumb. I'm sorry but that is just dumb. You, moon, are the wake up call for that whole little twisted village you're living in. Honestly it is a brilliant opportunity to help the people around you to wake the f up.

A douche bag, eh? how eloquent. I think I said "something died inside me" not that I am dead inside and that I am just a walking dead person...I think they are actually different statements...but what do I know? I am just this "dumb-twisted-american immigrant-woman", compared to you---masters in Physics, isn't it?

 

So, since this post is a little silly, and even though I'm 35, I'll end with some straight high school advice:

 

There is an album called Yoshimi Battles the Pink Robots by the Flaming Lips. You, Dessert Moon, should study that album.

So silly, you had to pour so much of your venom here. Thanks for recommending that album...but I like classical music.

[desertmoon]

You have no idea how your daughter will react. She is a completely different person. But I will tell you my wife is exactly like her mom.

 

 

You are right, I do not know EXACTLY how she will react to....whatever.... She is her own person and thank goodness, she is. And I stand but my statement, that I hope she will never let anyone define her or validate her being or worth, like I did....I hope she won't sweat the small things. I hope she will have a great capacity to understand human weakness and fallibility and also realize the enormous capacity to excel...

[shippy]

Venom? Oh, but you misunderstand me moon. I want you to laugh. Not a cynical sneering laugh, not a laugh at another's pain, but a deep honest laugh from the belly and from the heart. Perhaps my comedy is not as sophisticated as you require, but if you could change your point of view just a little, you'd see it. My sincere wish is that you become a generally happy and fulfilled person. If what you want is shame, and fear, and bleakyness (see, bleakyness isn't a real word, its a play, and now I'm sad. I'm not smart enough to make you laugh or help you see your situattion through the window of a light heart, as I intended.), then nothing you ever read or hear will change that.

 

It is what you want that matters. If what you want is the life you have, then keep doing what you have been doing. Be the living ghost you present to this forum, it is your choice. If you think you are missing something then it is up to you to change. But wait, it sounds as if from your perspective you have achieved the shinning height of being.... desertmoon.

 

Would you respect me more if I lectured you on what a terrible little animal you are for spreading filth all over someone else's marriage? Is that eloquent enough? But I don't even believe that, I'm no puritan. What I read from you is a detached malaise, a zombie's lifestyle. You have your reasons, but change is possible if you want it.

 

And yes, I'm working on a masters is physics right now. I've also spent a total of 4 1/2 years in Afghanistan as part of the humanitarian community. I've been knocked to floor by an explosion and had rockets zip right over head. I've seen sheared bodies smeared over the streets, double amputee children daily, broken warriors babbling in the gutter, and severe burn victims begging till the end comes. I've heard the first hand stories of a woman now "owned" by her evil brother-in-law. I've seen people without choices desert, and you are NOT one of them.

 

The best parts of life are sincerity, and honesty, and joy.

 

Yoshimi is light hearted and inspirational piece about a young Japanese woman fighting to make her world a better place. It has received critical acclamation, and while it might not be Bach's dueling melodies it is lighted hearted and relevant to you. Light hearted relevance. Light heart. Light. Hey, perhaps you'd be more receptive to some Sade?

 

Good luck sunshine.

[desertmoon]

Venom? Oh, but you misunderstand me moon. I want you to laugh. Not a cynical sneering laugh, not a laugh at another's pain, but a deep honest laugh from the belly and from the heart. Perhaps my comedy is not as sophisticated as you require, but if you could change your point of view just a little, you'd see it. My sincere wish is that you become a generally happy and fulfilled person. If what you want is shame, and fear, and bleakyness (see, bleakyness isn't a real word, its a play, and now I'm sad. I'm not smart enough to make you laugh or help you see your situattion through the window of a light heart, as I intended.), then nothing you ever read or hear will change that.

 

You are not funny at all. Your verbal onslaught was not funny, your labels were not funny--douche bag? Your SINCERE wish????? now THAT is HILARIOUS! Nobody wants shame, fear and "bleakyness", don't be silly...that is precisely the reason why I made the conscious decision to extricate myself from any action my H do----but, sadly, for someone as accomplished as you are you cannot seem to grasp that simple idea. There goes the future of Physics in this country....oh well...

 

 

It is what you want that matters. If what you want is the life you have, then keep doing what you have been doing. Be the living ghost you present to this forum, it is your choice. If you think you are missing something then it is up to you to change. But wait, it sounds as if from your perspective you have achieved the shinning height of being.... desertmoon.

Living ghost? your words not mine...Jesus H. Christ, I am beginning to think you really want me to be a walking dead! You insist on it! You are right. It IS my life. I am not here because I needed help. I am just here--just to be--it the concept difficult to understand? and if I am touched or if there are people here who have made me think about my life, i run with it....

 

Would you respect me more if I lectured you on what a terrible little animal you are for spreading filth all over someone else's marriage? Is that eloquent enough? But that whole enterprise is a waste of time, because you already know it all. You know your wasting your precious time.

Respect you? is that what you want from me? Is that what this is all about? pathetic...go get a life. Shippy, you cannot destroy me....you can try and call me anything you want....to me you are just one loser man....get over your wife's affair---women would respect you better. Nobody wants to be around a whiny man....

 

And yes, I'm working on a masters is physics right now. I've also spent a total of 4 1/2 years in Afghanistan as part of the humanitarian community. I've been knocked to floor by an explosion and had rockets zip right over head. I've seen sheared bodies smeared over the streets, double amputee children daily, broken warriors babbling in the gutter, and severe burn victims begging till the end comes. I've heard the first hand stories of a woman now "owned" by her evil brother-in-law. I've seen people without choices desert, and you are NOT one of them.

Bravo! So has hundreds of thousands of people. I've had my share of ACTUALLY taking care of burn victims, amputees, victims of violent acts--so, please--do not tell me about it. You are right, my life is not like their's. I 've had a priveleged life. I do not know how it is to be poor or live in a violent neighborhood and I will not apologize for it. But experiences and the impact of those experiences to one's life is relative--and therefore cannot really be fairly compared...or do you not know that? This too, I believe is a simple concept. Psych 101.

 

Yoshimi is light hearted and inspirational piece about a young Japanese woman fighting to make her world a better place. It has received critical acclamation, and while it might not be Bach's dueling melodies it is lighted hearted and relevant to you. Light hearted relevance. Light heart. Light.

You are an ignorant, typical, narrow-minded, obnoxious westerner who thinks you understand cultures--you know a little bit, all of a sudden you are an expert.Relevant to me????? Save your Yoshimi. I do not need a book on a Japanese woman's plight. Oh and btw, I am American born.

[notinthemood]

I dont like shippy, He likes to insult people that he dosent know at all sometimes. he likes to give the some words judge them and laughing at them.

And he likes to acting that he knows everything about the world. even whole universe. seems he belives he is so smart that know what the best part you missed in your life even dosent know you. and i am a Isociopath etc.. guess he trying to showing the whole world how smart he is.sort of like that he thinks he is a god.

Maybe he dosent think that. But from his words, Bring me this idea.

 

Sure,you will say you dont care what i think of you. I dont care either. I just dont like your talking way with this lady.

[jwi71]

I can't believe I'm posting this...I guess I'll give this one more try...

 

DM, if your daughter were to live as you are now - with all the same details, the cheating H, having an A, and whatever else you haven't shared - what advice would you give her?

[Saville]

Why is that you, jwi71, think your question is so pertinent? If it was ignored, then leave it at that. You aren't her counselor, just a person on the Internet with too much time on your hands.

 

Shippy, the sanctimony of your posts in only seconded slightly by your ignorance. Why is it that people feel a need to establish their credentials as "smart," and then validate their comments through some extreme circumstance that they have witnessed. Your comments either make sense, or they don't. Adding some personal experience does not alter essentially ignorant remarks. Perhaps you've been trying to glean too much from your Britney Spears album.

 

Desert Moon, there is a cold detachment to your intial posts, but the more you have written it is obvious that you are just a fellow, warm-hearted, traveler, trying to make sense of the situation you now find yourself in. That it is not unique is a testament to how us humans find it difficult to be honest with each other, as well as honest with ourselves. We believe in the lie that society has created, and then try to predicate our actions on that lie. However, when a part of our spirit wants free from these lying bonds, we often find ourselves as odds with how we are living our lives. I am likewise stuck, and so I can not say what you "should" do, but I can say, that I do think the fight for a full heart, with someone we deeply care about, need not be written-off.

 

I think we can settle, and find meaning and edification in our other acts, but I also think the dream of having both is still worth pursuing.

 

Children are resilient, and if they have enough love bestowed upon them they will make their way in the world just as dysfunctionally as the rest of us. LOL I have made a pile of mistakes and my children have not always been in the best of situations, but through it all we loved and shared, and I am extremely proud how they have turned out.

 

All the best.

 

Saville

[jwi71]

Why is that you, jwi71, think your question is so pertinent? If it was ignored, then leave it at that. You aren't her counselor, just a person on the Internet with too much time on your hands.

 

Someone's in a bad mood this morning. Maybe some bouncing bunnies will cheer you up? :bunny:

 

And because I always find an uninformed assumption irritating - kindly post where I have asked that question to DM before now?

[Owl]

Hello Owl! I thought it was futile to respond to someone who has relegated me to be less than human..but since you asked, I will try...

 

I never said that you weren't human. I said that you weren't functioning as a human being...your words from a previous post.

 

And when you are emotionally shut down, you're NOT functioning as a 'normal' human being.

 

Humans are emotional creatures, just as much as they are cold, hard, logical ones.

 

A functional 'human being' uses both aspects in their day to day interactions with those around them.

 

 

You are wrong about me not telling someone face-to-face because then I had to care about what they think about me. I was in psych care for months--with a team of doctors-psychiatrist, neurologist, nutritionist, etc. I refused to talked to them about what was going on in my head or what happened because I did not care about what they had to say---I did not believe in them. There was no facade, I was profoundly sad and broken and I stopped eating and did not sleep and did not talk. Everybody thought I had lost it, but I was acutely aware of everything. I just couldnt talk about it-it was too much to bear...too much to hear myself talk about it...

 

 

True change and healing--what is that really? can you tell me? Who are you to tell me I am not healed or changed?

 

I'm the guy on the other side of the internet, reading YOUR posts. Basing my comments/conclusions based entirely off of YOUR input, YOUR posts, YOUR responses.

 

I can say this point blank because I don't have any vested interest in you. I can be openly honest, without need to sugar coat my responses because I'm afraid of how you'll react, and how that will impact any kind of interaction between us going forward.

 

I can say that you're not healed, that you don't want to change, by reading your posts and your responses. I'd be amazed if others here come to drastically different conclusions than I do, reading the same responses.

 

I do not know if I do not want to change or if I want to change. I live life one day at a time. I do not like nor dislike the "ice queen mask" label. My H calls me that. It has no bearing on me.

 

It is strange, that one cannot just express not knowing what one wants without someone like you, Owl , saying, YOU DO NOT WANT TO CHANGE!

 

It's easy for me to come to this conclusion by reading YOUR posts, and YOUR responses. You vehemently defend your choice to be the ice queen. You defend the actions that classify you as 'cold, uncaring, etc...".

 

It's actually very simple...if you wanted to change, you would change. Or you'd be asking HOW to change. Instead, you continually attempt to rationalize and justify NOT changing.

 

See why that would lead me to this conclusion?

 

My H calls me "ice queen" because I won't have sex with him---seriously,Owl-I think there other things in life to be passionate about--the arts, helping the poor, the sick, etc....sex..well..it's overrated.

 

OK...so are you passionate about THOSE things?

 

Realize something...I get that he's a desperately flawed man. I get that he's a serial cheater. I do NOT defend or condone those actions.

 

I don't even recommend that anyone remain in a relationship with someone like that.

 

But I raise the "ice queen" issue with you BECAUSE you choose to remain in a horribly damaged relationship, with no intent or goal to repair/rebuild/reconcile. Frankly, you sound more like you want to hurt him as much as he's hurt you...as much as anyone hurt you in your life, you seem to want to let him take the brunt of it.

 

Rather than teaching your daughter to seek a healthy relationship, or a healthy single lifestyle...you remain in this relationship for reasons that appear to have nothing to do with anything healthy.

 

My daughter is a better person that I am. I hope that when she grows up to be a woman, she would never lose herself because somebody lied or cheated on her--that her life and her self-worth is not dependent upon that one person and that she will be able to let that person go and let him be without bitterness. And if she grows up physically looking just like me....well.., I am not so bad..i think she will be just fine. And if she chooses a career just like mine....well..then I know she won't starve.

 

You HOPE that your daughter will never lose herself under those circumstances, but you don't know that.

 

And the primary role model she's had during her formative years doesn't appear to have been capable of demonstrating that life lessson to her.

 

Understand...I'm not lashing out at you. I'm not angry or upset about your responses.

 

All I'm trying to accomplish here is to help you fully see what you're doing, and the ramifications.

 

If you choose to keep the ice queen mask forever, it doesn't hurt me at all.

 

But...do you care about those that it WILL impact? Or has the ice queen taken over that part of your heart already?

[Saville]

Someone's in a bad mood this morning. Maybe some bouncing bunnies will cheer you up? :bunny:

 

And because I always find an uninformed assumption irritating - kindly post where I have asked that question to DM before now?

 

Hey, thank you for the bouncing bunnies.

 

No, I can not find where you posted that before, it was an assumption based upon what you wrote: "Let's try this again."

 

My apologies.

 

My daughter is a better person that I am.

 

That doesn't have to be the case.

 

....sex..well..it's overrated.

That doesn't have to be the case, either. Personally, I think it is underrated, and that's why it is quickly dispensed with, or not done much at all.

 

Saville