Irrational jealousy, or should I be concerned?

[Hajnalka]

Greetings - I'm new to these forums and this is my first post.

 

I am in a wonderful relationship and am in a quandary. We've been dating for 18 months and he's 'the one.' He is amazingly good to me, and we're having pre-marriage talks. He is 15 years older than me and has never been married. We can always talk about anything ... until the past few months.

 

He has a very good female friend I'll call Jane. She is his ex-girlfriend and she lives overseas. We had always talked openly about her; I always knew they were close. In October she wanted to come visit for a week because she was interested in our election process. My boyfriend told her that he wouldn't go a week without seeing me so she had to expect the 3 of us to do things together, and that I'd be spending the night (I live an hour away.) The second night of her visit we went to dinner. There was some good conversation - things were a little tense, but generally friendly. The conversation was all about her, but I didn't mind as I'm a good listener.

 

When we got back to his place, the two of them were sitting on the couch together, and he asked her if she wanted him to go get her pillow. He got it for her and she stretched out on the couch, snuggling up to him. He started tenderly caressing her; her hair, and her shoulders, etc. He kissed her a few times. Nothing overtly sexual but it REALLY bothered me ..... that's how he usually touches me, dammit! They were talking quietly together and ignoring me. It looked extremely loving like they were an old married couple. I didn't say anything; eventually she went to bed and I explained to my BF that I was really feeling hurt/disrespected by all the attention he was giving to her. I did not see them the rest of the week because I couldn't bear to see that again but he called me every day.

 

We talked extensively after the visit. He said that he knew Jane would be uncomfortable with me around and he wanted her to be at ease. I guess I felt confused by his priority to reassure his friend that extensively while hurting me in the process. I felt humiliated.

 

Now, he never, ever mentions Jane. But he talks to her and writes her and lies to me about it. For instance just the other day he missed my call when I was on the way to his place (he was expecting it, I always call when I get into my car.) He told me he couldn't reach the phone in time ... but then he slipped up later in the evening when his business partner called him and he said, "Sorry I couldn't take your call earlier, I was on an overseas call with Jane." So I asked him if that's why he didn't take my call and he admitted it. Before her visit he would have never done that.

 

I have never had a jealous bone in my body and I don't like the way this feels. I'm tempted to snoop in his phone, mail, etc. but I have integrity, and I hate that impulse! Maybe he never mentions Jane because he doesn't want to upset me, and he really is a wonderful man who deserves to have good friends he can talk to. He knows something has been wrong lately but I don't want to bring my jealous feelings up for discussion because I feel it's unfair to him; we dealt with the original problem and I should put it behind me.

 

I don't think he's being sexually unfaithful but I worry about his emotional faithfulness to me in regards to this woman (putting her needs before mine; lying to me.) I believe she is obviously in love with him even if he doesn't return the feeling and I admit that scares me. I'm usually a secure person.

 

Thanks for reading this far. Any advice or thoughts would be greatly apreciated!

 

-H

[melodymatters]

Whoa Nelly !

 

Everyone has their own personal standards when it comes to friends of the opposite sex, staying friends with ex's etc... BUT

 

He put HER feelings above yours.

 

AND, he was physically affectionate with her, in front of you, while basically ignoring you.

 

God bless you for not having a jealous bone, i'm honest with myself and others and i am a jealous 100% italian bi-otch, when it comes to matters like these !

 

To me it's primevil instinct : mine, get away !

[2sure]

It is almost never realistic to stay platonic friends with people we have been in intimate relationships with. Even more unrealistic to try to continue to do so once we have started a new relationship.

 

It sounds as though your man and Jane were "over" only because they are living far away from each other.

 

The fact that he was snuggling her, caressing her and kissing her while you were in the same room being ignored almost sounds like he was tring to initiate a threesome! Apparently that wasnt it since you were ignored but he certainly showed Jane without question who he would prefer, at your expense.

 

You have no reason to check his cell or his emails...he very clearly has shown you where his feelings and priorities lie. You may fall in among them, but way behind Jane.

[Hajnalka]

To me it's primevil instinct : mine, get away !

 

That was my exact instinct at the time! - I think I was kinda frozen in shock. I wish I would have directly confronted them both right then, I think I'd be feeling more self-respect right now.

[D-Lish]

 

The fact that he was snuggling her, caressing her and kissing her while you were in the same room being ignored almost sounds like he was tring to initiate a threesome!

 

That was my first thought as well.

 

I would never stand for this! He actually cuddled and stroked her in front of you- then became secretaive about his contact afterward???

 

Dump him. He has no respect for you.

[Hajnalka]

2sure, that's my gut instinct as well. Thing is he thinks I should feel way less threatened because she does live overseas .... even tho when we had the 'previous relationship' convo early on he said that it never could have worked with her because she has a child from an earlier marriage and her ex-husband would not let her emigrate (?!)

 

I cannot stay in this relationship if he truly is settling for me but wants someone else more. I'd rather be alone, thanks. Not giving up yet, but at the least think we need some pro counseling.

 

Thanks,

H

[tomswife]

If I were you I would have abandoned this guy the night he caressed Jane infront of you. To me, that is just too inappropriate to ignore.

[JaydaLeah]

Boy, i do feel infuriated for you. That's utterly disrespectful. I believe that exes can remain as friends, BUT, never close friends. In fact, i think exes should always remain as mere acquaintance and nothing more. I have an ex whom i still keep close contact with and even though i refer him as "we are still gd friends even we broke up", i can always feel something extra for him - not anything romantic, but just that he was someone i used to really care about and i still do now, as a friend. (okok, im guilty of the “his just a gd fren” bulls… but then, I have no qualms to snap off contact should his presence make my bf feel upset!)

 

There is no denial that an ex will always have a special place in our hearts and this, can really suck and make a person feel threatened. Which is WHY, it is important to draw a CLEAR line. And your SO has evidently crossed your comfort line. If he truly cares for you, he should understand how this makes you feel and make a choice of keeping his ex, or you. Btw, his reason for making you assured should be because he is in love with you, not because his ex is living some distance away! What crap.

 

I’d probably put my foot down – either you keep her, or me. I believe you are an independent woman. This will not be easy, but do-able. All the best!

[Hajnalka]

Follow-up:

 

I couldn't just walk away from this man. This is definitely the best relationship I've ever had, and I've had more than a few. We had a long talk today ....

 

He and I have always been about total 100% open and honest communication so we can make things work, so I told him everything I've been thinking and feeling. He agreed to break off all contact with Jane. He's going to call her to tell her this, and why, instruct her not to contact him again and will report to me when he does.

 

He's not exactly happy about it, but bottom line for him is that he wants us to work, and will do whatever it takes. I am his #1 priority and he has constantly showed me this over and over ... except where Jane is concerned. He commented: "Ultimatums about who we can or can't have as friends is not the sign of a healthy relationship." I told him I couldn't agree more!! - that his putting her ease and comfort before mine, concealing contact w/her and lying, causing me to issue the ultimatum is definitely not giving me the signal that our relationship is healthy!

 

He did say that his main priority is to bridge this gap we now have between us, reassure me that he is all about me, and get us back onto our good happy footing, I'm the most important thing in his life, etc. He's eager to do counseling w/me if that's what it takes, and will make his life an open book to me (phone, e-mail, schedule etc.)

 

We'll see what happens. To me, actions definitely speak louder than words and time will tell .... but tonight I'm hopeful where last night I was in a bit of despair.

 

Sincere thanks to you all for your advice and replies.

 

-H

[norajane]

If I were you I would have abandoned this guy the night he caressed Jane infront of you. To me, that is just too inappropriate to ignore.

 

Me too. Especially since he was also kissing her while ignoring you.

 

And now he's lying about his contact with her.

 

I'd move on - I'd be too pissed off to stay with him and be second best, even if she lives in Siberia and was never to return. Second best is second best.

[norajane]

He commented: "Ultimatums about who we can or can't have as friends is not the sign of a healthy relationship."

 

Neither is cuddling, caressing and kissing someone else in front of you; nor is lying about his contact with her.

 

Do you really believe he is suddenly going to drop ALL contact with her after years of knowing her and after all that tender loving he showed toward her?

 

Did he ever explain WHY he was kissing her in front of you while ignoring you? Did he actually apologize to you and admit to you that it was inappropriate and hurtful and inconsiderate?

[Hajnalka]

Neither is cuddling, caressing and kissing someone else in front of you; nor is lying about his contact with her.

 

Do you really believe he is suddenly going to drop ALL contact with her after years of knowing her and after all that tender loving he showed toward her?

 

Did he ever explain WHY he was kissing her in front of you while ignoring you? Did he actually apologize to you and admit to you that it was inappropriate and hurtful and inconsiderate?

 

I do believe he'll drop all contact with her, but I'm keeping my eyes open and will see what happens.

 

His explanation is that she felt really uncomfortable in my presence, and he was reassuring her/making her feel safe. He seemed to think that our relationship is secure enough that I would not mind him cuddling & caressing her on the couch! (Could any relationship be that firm, I ask myself.) This was the huge problem to begin with. He knows that I'm generally very secure, but he did know that I was not totally comfortable with her visit. He went overboard to make her feel wanted and safe, at my expense. He thought I'd/we'd be fine with anything.

 

This is the problem in a nutshell. To paraphrase many posters above, he put her priorities before mine.

 

He apologized profusely for hurting me. Made up with me bigtime, and showed it. He was very not happy that he didn't see me for the rest of that week. Then the secrecy and lies started. Now that it's several weeks out he's not as contrite, especially after I gave him the ultimatum: friendship with Jane or relationship with me.

 

I believe we can work through it. I'm not backing down and think this will be a great learning experience for him: If he wants me to trust in him and believe in his loyalty to me, he'll have to earn MY trust and loyalty all over again after this - and show it on a daily basis.

 

I am hopeful BUT am keeping my eyes wide open and am ready to walk out on him if I have to. Our conversation today was really good.

 

Best part for me is that I own my own business and house, have 2 great dogs and lots of wonderful friends. I would like a happy productive LTR with a man but if that doesn't happen I'm quite happy on my own.

 

Best,

H

[norajane]

Best part for me is that I own my own business and house, have 2 great dogs and lots of wonderful friends. I would like a happy productive LTR with a man but if that doesn't happen I'm quite happy on my own.

 

Best,

H

 

Good for you!

 

I hope things work out the way you want them to.

[Hajnalka]

norajane:

 

Thanks for the cute hoppy bunny; I needed it!

 

Turns out my BF is very good at telling me what I need to hear, but he sucks at any kind of action that would show me I'm the most important person in his life ; he cannot get rid of Jane ---- and the crazy thing is I KNOW that our love/sex life/overall life we have together is WAY better than this long-distance situation with Jane in London.

 

Basically yesterday he said he'd break of contact w/Jane. I came over, we made up and had great sex.

 

Today he says I 'need to think about my priorities in asking him to break off a 4-year friendship, it's going to be really hard for him - is that fair to them and what does it mean? - maybe I need to work on my own insecurities.'

 

This is so far beyond me, I don't understand it. What normal person could say something like that. I have to add: This guy is an attorney. Relationship advice: If you're dating a lawyer, don't EVER argue. Retreat!

 

Anyway, I'll be spending tomorrow packing out all of the stuff I've had at his place for a year.

 

I'm very sad.

 

I'm more than sad - I'm sobbing my eyes out and pissed off as hell.

 

Sincere thanks to everyone on this forum for your advice and support. I've appreciated you reading about my dilemma and value your input.

 

Best,

H

[norajane]

I'm sorry to hear that he's now backtracking on his word, AND has turned it around to blame your insecurities for this.

 

The good news is, he's not sneaking around behind your back and lying to you. He could have easily TOLD you he had dropped contact, but kept doing it anyway. This way, you at least have the opportunity to make an informed decision not to waste any more time with him.

 

I'm sorry you're so unhappy. I've been there, we've all been there. But we do come out the other side, given enough time. You will too! :bunny:

[2sure]

...even tho when we had the 'previous relationship' convo early on he said that it never could have worked with her because she has a child from an earlier marriage and her ex-husband would not let her emigrate (?!)

I took this from your previous post. She is the priority. They "cannot"be together because of circumstance...like an affair, there is no way to compete with a fantasy relationship. With you, he has day to day life - even if its great, it will always be shadowed by this "love that couldnt be". What a bunch of BS! And his behavior with you, in front of them...was both of them seeing how much you would put up with. Not only does he want to make Jane a priority, he wishes you would too.

 

Good riddance!

[Hajnalka]

...even tho when we had the 'previous relationship' convo early on he said that it never could have worked with her because she has a child from an earlier marriage and her ex-husband would not let her emigrate (?!)

 

I took this from your previous post. She is the priority. They "cannot"be together because of circumstance...like an affair, there is no way to compete with a fantasy relationship. With you, he has day to day life - even if its great, it will always be shadowed by this "love that couldnt be". What a bunch of BS! And his behavior with you, in front of them...was both of them seeing how much you would put up with. Not only does he want to make Jane a priority, he wishes you would too.

 

Good riddance!

 

You and norajane are warmly welcomed voices of reason and sanity. Maybe with a bit of 'angel' in there somewhere ....

 

My sincere thanks + best wishes to you both.

 

Being single again does not suck. There is a ton of possibilities if I so choose someday in the future, and just think of all the gas money I'm saving!

 

-H

[brokenboy]

he may not be physically cheating... but he's obviously getting something from that relationship. and from what you wrote, he's *giving* something as well. he's giving her emotional reassurance (?!) at your expense... that's messed up. you're not wrong to feel threatened or vulnerable... if he doesn't stop, you may have bigger problems down the line.