Wife wants me to end friendship with co-worker

[carhill]

Simply ask Jill to take a break discussing anything non-work related for now, until you get the chance to discuss everything with your marriage counselor?

 

If she's a good friend...she'll understand.

 

 

Yes 100% she said ultimately if I need to drop her as a friend she understands and wants my W and I to be happy and stay married.

 

Sounds like Jill is already on board for this. OP, what do you think? Take six months off and focus on MC? Does that sound reasonable?

[travelgirl]

Jill is no longer a person but a symbol you two are fighting over - each trying to "win". And you both end up losing.

 

Exactly. Even if you are 100% sure you are not having an EA, the fact is Jill is causing problems in the marriage. Just back off already and stop fighting it with W. Get to MC and vent. Sounds like you have a lot of closed up anger you need to get out.

[walkermark]

I found this list of warning signs of an emotional affair. I want to share my thoughts on each thing and I promise to be as honest as I can.

 

• You are withdrawing from your spouse.
  

No - we are more engaged and talkative and communicating better than we have at least in the last year or so

 

• You are preoccupied and daydream about your friend more and more.
  

Not at all. I have thought about her before but no more than any other friend and any thoughts have not become more frequent.

 

• You are not interested in being intimate with your spouse, either emotionally or sexually.
  

Far from it - emotional and sexual intimacy have been increasing over the last year and continue to do so.

 

• The amount of time you and your spouse spend together is less.
  

No, We have been spending more time together on dates, just talking or playing tennis, or going shopping, etc.

 

• When confronted about the apparent emotional affair, you respond, "We're just friends."
  

I believe I said I love You and only you to my wife and that I have no romantic feelings toward anyone else. I may have at some point said we are close friends or good friends.

 

• You find yourself anticipating when you can communicate or be with your friend again. Alone time together is important to you.
  

Friends do spend time together. Alone time on occasion is nice, but I enjoy spending time with Jill and other friends too. Weekends we rarely communicate except for occasional work related emails and that doesnt bother me. They sometimes include stuff like how's your weekend going? or something her and Jack did.

 

• You are sharing your thoughts, feelings, and problems with your friend instead of your spouse.
  

Not instead of. Certainly there is nothing I have told Jill that I had not already talked to my W about.

 

• You find reasons to give your friend personal gifts.
  

I have not given Jill personal gifts nor found reasons to do so

 

• Your friend seems to understand you better than your spouse does.
  

She might "seem to" but she's my friend and more likely to take "my side" but she doesn't understand me better than my W.

 

• You are keeping your friendship a secret from your spouse.
  

No - the complete opposite

[Athena]

All I see is you doing your utmost to prove you are not emotionally involved with your female friend. You are defending your right to have her still, as a friend.

 

But what has your wife said since three days ago when you first posted on here?

Does she still want you to give Jill up?

 

Are you hoping that if you prove you are not giving Jill your heart, then you can keep Jill as a bosom buddy, no matter what your wife wishes? Is that what you want?

 

Okay -- I believe you... you do not have any romantic notion of Jill. You have never thought of her naked, nor wondered what it would be like to make love to her (wow). So -- what... what does it matter if 95% of your respondents think you should put Jill aside in favor of your wife's wishes? You still don't want to do that, right?

 

If you do not manage to convince your wife to feel safe about this relationship of yours and Jill's, then what are you going to do about it? Because clearly you are not going to take a vote here on the LS boards and act on that.

[pelicanpreacher]

This would be so artificial, IMO. The wife already has a gut feeling that this friendship undermines the marriage. I think that if the OP tried this, there would be an unspoken agreement to tone things down in front of the wife.

 

Maybe and maybe not for until the effort is made all assessments are still made on "intuition" which can often mislead one's interpretation of the true facts. Not being one to judge a book by its cover I'd at least suggest that one read the first chapter before passing judgement on the rest of the book. Anyways, its sometimes better the devil you know than to rail or cower at the unknown!

[taylor]

I found this list of warning signs of an emotional affair. I want to share my thoughts on each thing and I promise to be as honest as I can.

 

• You are withdrawing from your spouse.
  

No - we are more engaged and talkative and communicating better than we have at least in the last year or so

 

• You are preoccupied and daydream about your friend more and more.
  

Not at all. I have thought about her before but no more than any other friend and any thoughts have not become more frequent.

 

• You are not interested in being intimate with your spouse, either emotionally or sexually.
  

Far from it - emotional and sexual intimacy have been increasing over the last year and continue to do so.

 

• The amount of time you and your spouse spend together is less.
  

No, We have been spending more time together on dates, just talking or playing tennis, or going shopping, etc.

 

• When confronted about the apparent emotional affair, you respond, "We're just friends."
  

I believe I said I love You and only you to my wife and that I have no romantic feelings toward anyone else. I may have at some point said we are close friends or good friends.

 

• You find yourself anticipating when you can communicate or be with your friend again. Alone time together is important to you.
  

Friends do spend time together. Alone time on occasion is nice, but I enjoy spending time with Jill and other friends too. Weekends we rarely communicate except for occasional work related emails and that doesnt bother me. They sometimes include stuff like how's your weekend going? or something her and Jack did.

 

• You are sharing your thoughts, feelings, and problems with your friend instead of your spouse.
  

Not instead of. Certainly there is nothing I have told Jill that I had not already talked to my W about.

 

• You find reasons to give your friend personal gifts.
  

I have not given Jill personal gifts nor found reasons to do so

 

• Your friend seems to understand you better than your spouse does.
  

She might "seem to" but she's my friend and more likely to take "my side" but she doesn't understand me better than my W.

 

• You are keeping your friendship a secret from your spouse.
  

No - the complete opposite

 

OP, continue your platonic friendship with Jill, but avoid any and all discussion with her regarding your wife, marriage, MC, as well as topics regarding relationships, affairs, or anything sexually related.

 

No need to tell your wife you are continuing a friendship with Jill..it's purely platonic. You are just co-workers and have no desire to be anything other than that. Do not discuss Jill...don't even bring up her name at home. Why talk about a coworker at home. Leave the office at the office. I'm sure you and your wife have many other topics you can discuss that are far more interesting and meaningful than some coworker.

 

Cultivate friends outside the office with your wife...ones you both feel comfortable with.

 

In 3 months, revisit the emotional affair questions you posted above and reassess your position. Let us all know then where you stand.

[Saville]

What do you think your other co-workers see? Do they see you as "just" friends, or rather as two married people getting close? You are not worried about their perception, I suppose, just as you are unconcerned about your wife's perception. It's their problem...right? You compromise your marriage because have a "right" to a platonic relationship. You compromise your friendship with Jill, because of how your co-workers perceive what you are doing. You relationship isn't just work place camaraderie, you have admitted it is a "friendship." Jill's reputation, her character, is being sullied because of this "friendship." Yours is too! Do you think that chins aren't wagging, and fingers pointing? Oh, but what do you care...you have a right to be friends, because it is all so harmless. By being dismissive of how others view your liason with Jill, you are, by its very nature, bringing you two closer. She is a willing conspirator in this liason, as she has not distanced herself in anyway from you, and listens to you speak about how your wife doesn't approve of the friendship. I suppose Jill has the same sense of entitlement to you, and your friendship, that you do. Why should she give you up because it makes your wife uncomfortable, or because chins are wagging at work?...she has a right to such a friendship; and nothing, after all, is going on.

 

The appropriate thing to do would be to meet outside of the office; thereby stopping any unseemly thoughts by co-workers and saving Jill's reputation. You could meet at a coffee shop, or perhaps somewhere you might have a drink...just as friends. Now, this scenario looks a little different, doesn't it walkermark?

 

Saville

[carhill]

OP, we all have to draw a boundary where we resist social opinion and peer pressure and live life on our own terms. Where do you draw that boundary?

 

I can say, in my journey, there have been occasions where I wish some of my wife's same-gender friends would just disappear off the face of the earth because of the interference they've caused in our marriage but I chose to resist attempting to control her friendships, rather choosing to invalidate their existence and any relevant influence beyond the boundary I set and communicated to my wife.

 

OP, if you're being honest about how your friend views you and your marriage, then you're in a win-win situation. She's a relationship supporter and validates your marriage and commitment. She also has told you she is willing to step away and distance her friendship to preserve the health of your marriage. It's your choice. Make one that is right for you, regardless of the disparate opinions and viewpoints of myself or others. We have the relevance you ascribe to us. You have the power. Make use of it

[loveratud]

I say draw a hard line. "You can't tell me who I can and can't be friends with." It's that simple. I like the idea of inviting Jill and her husband out to dinner with you and your wife. That might make her more comfortable with things.

[Owl]

Or it might not make her more comfortable.

 

My wife went out of her way to introduce OM to me...and include him in our circle of friends. It was her way of trying to make their relationship "acceptable".

 

He can draw that line in the sand...and tell his wife that he's keeping his relationship with Jill regardless of what she says. But...that clearly sends the message to his wife that his friendship with Jill is more important to him than his marriage to his wife.

 

Talk this all over with the marriage counselor. Find a happy medium.

 

Don't set a line in the sand....don't put a boundary out there that you're not willing to enforce.

 

What if your wife says "It's her or me"?

[carhill]

Talk this all over with the marriage counselor. Find a happy medium.

 

Yes, I agree with this. The MC helped with the establishment of appropriate boundaries and prioritization of the marriage over friendships, both opposite and same-gender. He added a recognizable construct to the often chaotic and emotional communication flowing from both of us. It became possible to retain friendships and prioritize them in a healthy way. Both 'sides" had to bend.

 

When is that MC appointment?

[walkermark]

My wife went out of her way to introduce OM to me...and include him in our circle of friends. It was her way of trying to make their relationship "acceptable".

I thought I read some of your stuff, but I might have to go re-read.

 

What if your wife says "It's her or me"?

Then it's her (W)

 

Being honest here, I will feel like this is friend #2 she has taken away and that's going to hurt. Not because Jill is female, just because she is a friend and she's being taken away for no valid reason and that she is no threat to my W. I think my wife would be the happiest if I had no friends at all except for her and that I talked to no one but her.

[carhill]

I think my wife would be the happiest if I had no friends at all except for her and that I talked to no one but her.

 

If that's honest and you still cleave to her without reservation, you need MC more desperately than you think, for your own health, IMO.

[audrey_1]

Being honest here, I will feel like this is friend #2 she has taken away and that's going to hurt. Not because Jill is female, just because she is a friend and she's being taken away for no valid reason and that she is no threat to my W. I think my wife would be the happiest if I had no friends at all except for her and that I talked to no one but her.

 

My ex-fiancee was very jealous of opposite gender friends I had. He made comments about all of them. I have always had a lot of male friends, simply because it seems easier to get along with them, though I'm not sure why. But sometimes when our SO protests, there is a reason, maybe that we can't yet see. Case in point, a male friend of a friend I found very attractive, and there was a certain "something" about him. We just clicked. I began spending more time with he and my other friends without my fiancee, as he wasn't a social person at all. My fiancee had this particular guy in his sights the most. In the end, there were underlying issues that lead to the breakup of our engagement, but this "friend" of mine was the final straw, and if he had wanted to pursue a relationship with me, I probably would have gone for it.

 

If all you need a is a friend, then I can't doubt that, but just be absolutely sure you're not fooling yourself. What is it you're not getting from your wife? You should figure it out and discuss it with her.

[Owl]

Being honest here, I will feel like this is friend #2 she has taken away and that's going to hurt. Not because Jill is female, just because she is a friend and she's being taken away for no valid reason and that she is no threat to my W. I think my wife would be the happiest if I had no friends at all except for her and that I talked to no one but her.

 

I can see how it might feel like that, but you know that doesn't really make sense, right?

 

SHE didn't "take away" that first friend. HE did. HE betrayed your trust, your friendship, etc...

 

It was a DOUBLE betrayal...she betrayed you as a wife...he betrayed you as a friend.

 

SHE isn't responsible for his choice to cross the line with her.

 

SHE didn't "take him away"...

 

But...Carhill is right. If you feel your wife doesn't want you to have any friends outside the marriage...MC is a definite must to help fix things.

 

You've mentioned that communication in your marriage is much improved. It sounds to me like your wife needs to know that she's a priority in your life. She needs to feel more important to you than any 'friendship'.

 

Have you sat down and discussed compromises here that could help her feel what she needs to feel from you, without making you feel isolated?

[angie2443]

Maybe and maybe not for until the effort is made all assessments are still made on "intuition" which can often mislead one's interpretation of the true facts. Not being one to judge a book by its cover I'd at least suggest that one read the first chapter before passing judgement on the rest of the book. Anyways, its sometimes better the devil you know than to rail or cower at the unknown!

 

I get what you're saying, but I've been in this situation before and have seen others put in this situation. It just messes with your head. The partner invites their friend over for dinner or whatever. The partner and the friend tone things down because they know they are bieng watched. They don't stand as close together, they don't talk about the same things as they would without the wife/husband present and so on. The wife/husband feels something's off but doesn't have the "proof" and they start doubting their own feelings. It's the whole gaslighting trick, and the partner and their friend might not even be aware that they are pulling the trick off. I garentee this is what will happen if the OP stages a get together with the friend and the wife. The wife already had a feeling something is off. The husband and friend will act in a way that tells the wife her feelings are wrong. She will start to doubt her instincts and eventually her mind.

 

Maybe the wife deserves this because the "tongue in the mouth" incident. I understand the feeling. Sometimes I feel like my husband, in one way, got something extra on the side and now I deserve something extra. Truth is, though, getting that something extra will destroy the marriage. I kind of wonder if the OP is really all that concerned with this, though.

[Sheba]

I have read through this thread and all I see in it is the OP's very determined efforts to justify and rationalize keeping his friend, despite that the friendship is hurting his marriage.

 

It is even possible that OP is "using" the board to bolster his arguments with his wife on the issue.

 

And, OP, I am responding to the "information presented": you have stated quite clearly that your wife feels threatened and anxious and has asked you to end the friendship but you have refused. Therefore, the relationship hurts the marriage. I don't accept your suggestion that it is a "slippery slope" and that if you "give in" your wife will try to "take away" other things from you. Why would you make such an unfair assumption? A marriage would not survive for 15 years if one spouse was devoted to depriving the other of joy. I believe this theory is just another rationalization.

 

It seems obvious to me that you have come to this forum seeking only support for your wish to maintain the friendship with Jill. I am not buying what you are selling, whether the pitch is conscious and deliberate or not.

[carhill]

I get what you're saying, but I've been in this situation before and have seen others put in this situation. It just messes with your head. The partner invites their friend over for dinner or whatever. The partner and the friend tone things down because they know they are being watched.

 

Not pervasive (could be true for others), but not true in my case. I show my friend the same attention and affection in front of her BF and my wife as I do when we're alone. They've had dinner at our home and we've all gone out together as couples. Perhaps, since our friendship pre-dates her BF and my wife by 15 years or more, that accounts for some of it. From listening to their (W and BF) comments, they were/are more concerned when we aren't expressing, since there are no obvious signs of our communication but they still sense some is going on. My wife has said this to me. Hence, I now stick to verbal and conspicuous communication at all times. Priorities

 

Maybe the wife deserves this because the "tongue in the mouth" incident.

 

I hope the OP can resist such feelings as they are a slippery slope. IMO, each action/behavior stands alone and should be analyzed individually and contemporaneously. This was the respect for but not dwelling on history aspect which MC helped with. Disconnecting the past is a difficult task but I now see it as a healthy one for future growth. The hard work for me is, when I experience behaviors in the present that were hurtful in the past, to separate out my feelings for the "now" from those for the "then" to assign proper current importance to the event/feeling. I'm sure it is the same for my wife. This is another example where good MC can assist a couple.

 

Since I'm now starting to sound like a walking advertisement for MC, I'll bow out. Hopefully the OP will make choices and changes which are healthy for him and their M.

[EnigmaXOXO]

One last thing to point out is that my wife besides me has no close friends. A few casual friends at work, but certainly not someone she would consider close or a best friend. Obviously she has no one else to talk to about all this (I would go insane).

 

Does this mean that your wife isn’t as comfortable as you are with the idea of forming close bonds and/or platonic relationships with opposite sex friends?

 

I ask, because I’m wondering if is this something you have either openly or inadvertently encouraged from each other as a means to reestablish the trust you lost after that first incident fifteen years ago ?? If so, than your sudden change in perspective over this one gal after fifteen years is certainly going to feel like a breach of agreement (whether spoken or unspoken) to your wife since you have essentially changed the entire dynamics of your marriage with this single friendship. Perhaps in your efforts to prove how innocent your intentions are ... you’re not empathizing with how it might feel to be standing on your wife’s end of it.

 

I get the feeling from some of the comments you’ve made about not wholly “trusting” your wife, that you would not feel nearly as comfortable with the idea of her having a close male friend as you expect her to be with your new buddy Jill. Particularly if she were spending one-on-one time with a compassionate male friend from work discussing your private marital issues. Especially as it might relate to any criticisms, complaints or secret resentments she may want to confide in him about you. It’s liken to your partner inviting a stranger into your bedroom.

 

BUT if you’re completely sincere in your newfound attitude that you are now absolutely comfortable with the idea of entertaining and confiding in close opposite-sex friends ... than you must also allow your wife the same opportunity that you afford yourself. If you really want this to work, than there can not be a separate set of standards expected from her than you require from yourself. And holding her past over her head as a means to gain more space for yourself while keeping her in place (where you can feel safe) is not reason enough to explain why “you can” but “she can’t”.

 

I do really wish she had more friends - I wish we both had more friends. To me just because a friend means something, it doesn't mean your spouse means less.

 

Then tell her that. In fact, encourage her to take the time she needs for herself to go out there and meet some. But be careful what you ask for.

[Athena]

 

Being honest here, I will feel like this is friend #2 she has taken away and that's going to hurt. Not because Jill is female, just because she is a friend and she's being taken away for no valid reason and that she is no threat to my W. I think my wife would be the happiest if I had no friends at all except for her and that I talked to no one but her.

 

How about looking at this slightly differently? That friend #1 YOU got rid of because you felt he "was a threat to you"

Now, your W feels a woman is a threat to her, but you don't want to get rid of friend # 2....

 

I mean, do you honestly think your W wanted to get rid of your charming friend #1? No -- she really liked him, it was YOU that wanted to get rid of him because of them finding each other attractive and kissing.

Now, you choose to keep Friend #2 because you feel like it and you don't care if W is really uncomfortable with it. You do what you want. Seems like you have all the power in your marriage, nice isn't it?

 

Perhaps your W should choose as a new friend, your old friend #1 and see if you are okay with that new friend of hers?

[pelicanpreacher]

I get what you're saying, but I've been in this situation before and have seen others put in this situation. It just messes with your head. The partner invites their friend over for dinner or whatever. The partner and the friend tone things down because they know they are bieng watched. They don't stand as close together, they don't talk about the same things as they would without the wife/husband present and so on. The wife/husband feels something's off but doesn't have the "proof" and they start doubting their own feelings. It's the whole gaslighting trick, and the partner and their friend might not even be aware that they are pulling the trick off. I garentee this is what will happen if the OP stages a get together with the friend and the wife. The wife already had a feeling something is off. The husband and friend will act in a way that tells the wife her feelings are wrong. She will start to doubt her instincts and eventually her mind.

 

Maybe the wife deserves this because the "tongue in the mouth" incident. I understand the feeling. Sometimes I feel like my husband, in one way, got something extra on the side and now I deserve something extra. Truth is, though, getting that something extra will destroy the marriage. I kind of wonder if the OP is really all that concerned with this, though.

 

I might be beating a dead horse for you may be absolutely right. I was more alluding to one on one time between Jill and Sue. Maybe suggest that they go out for coffee, the movies, girls night out, and ect... together. This way Sue can get to know Jill for who she really is and at the same time allay her fears of her husband sneaking off with her because she's always in Sue's company. If in fact the OP is genuine in his assertion that all that he strives for is a platonic frendship with Jill then he shouldn't show any jealosy of the time his wife spends with her or in what they do or discuss in his absence.

 

If Sue's intuition is founded in her close observations of Jill then at least she can point to specific issues creating her consternation as opposed to saying "I don't like her because she seems to get along too well with my husband"! Furthermore, I think the OP is making this an issue because of the fact that he goes out of his way to be enthusiastic about Jill while showing his own wife Sue a more hum drum attitude which has created the illusion that something is there in his platonic relationship when it's not!

[walkermark]

Maybe and maybe not for until the effort is made all assessments are still made on "intuition" which can often mislead one's interpretation of the true facts. Not being one to judge a book by its cover I'd at least suggest that one read the first chapter before passing judgement on the rest of the book. Anyways, its sometimes better the devil you know than to rail or cower at the unknown!

This at first read this idea of Jill and W getting to know each other to me seemed a little hard to imagine or a little awkward especially for the W. Don't get me wrong, them being friends or at least spending time together would be great.

 

Something like this is though is what I would consider a reasonable or fair solution or thing to try before completely writing off Jill as a homewrecker. Part of why I say that is like PelicanPreacher says this assessment is being made on intuition and taking that a step further, being made my W who would describe herself as insecure and suspicious. Out of all the true facts about my friendship with Jill, she stopped at learning a few and then just assumed that every other fact points to her conclusion whether it does or not.

 

Anyway... The idea of getting together a couple of times to take some of the mystery out of the other side I think would be a good thing. My question here is during any of these get-togethers should any of us bring up this issue of Jill and I?

 

When I met Jack before, I thought he was great and I really liked him and I told Jill that. Jill did make one comment afterwards that Jack said I was "nice, maybe too nice" or something like that. I think she explained it as meaning not that I was acting too nice or being fake, but more like Jack saw that I was a nice guy and could see why Jill was friends with me. I suppose You can read more into that if You want to, but I consider all my friends to be nice and I am nice to them. I am guessing that's how we became friends.

 

I have a strong compulsion to talk about things. I think one of my strongest motivations on this goes back to both Parents and teachers suspecting me of doing something I didn't do or especially something I feel like I could never do. To me that is the one of the worst feelings. I remember one time agreeing to "take the blame" for something I didn't do because the jerk that was to blame wouldn't admit it. It was such a bad feeling knowing that people were disapointed in me for something I didn't do and they felt "good" that they finally "broke me" or caught the one responsible.

 

That was such a bad feeling that over the years there have been a couple of similar situations where there was some "proof" that I had done something wrong and parents or school wanted me to admit to something and I never would because I hadn't .

[walkermark]

Wallermark...suggestion for you.

Don't END the friendship at this point...but...since you know it's a major point of contention and stress in a marriage that's already dealing with more than enough issues, why not BACK OFF on it for a while?

Simply ask Jill to take a break discussing anything non-work related for now, until you get the chance to discuss everything with your marriage counselor?

This makes some sense to me. It's more than my W even requested. Carhill said 6 months? That seems like a long time (not from Jill) I mean a lot of counseling. You suggested the book "surviving an affair" I think my W will take one look at that and think I am going to have one or already have one and not comprehend how it could be about her and my former friend. I like marriagebuilders.com and the stuff there. (that's where that book is from right?)

 

If she's a good friend...she'll understand. As someone who's been thru infidelity as a BS, you can appreicate how not having this as an issue at this point in time can allow your MC to focus on the baseline issues in your marriage to begin with...and this will allow you and your wife to do so.

Yeah, makes sense.

 

But...if you're not willing to back off of a friendship with this woman, knowing the strain that it puts on your marriage and on your wife...that is probably the HALLMARK sign that the friendship is TOO important...

I agree.

 

No relationship should supercede that of you and your wife. Including this friendship.

Can you see that?

Certainly

[carhill]

Carhill said 6 months? That seems like a long time (not from Jill) I mean a lot of counseling.

 

OP, IME, the precepts and dynamics of MC only began to be effective for me after six months (likely closer to eight) of MC. Once you both get to the nitty gritty of the marriage, which you've touched on briefly in your postings here, the time flies. Fundamental change of behavior/thought/emotion/perspective takes a lot of time, even for the most flexible of people, IMO. We had weekly or bi-weekly sessions for the first six months, later becoming monthly/as needed as we moved out towards a year. It's been about 14 months now since we first went. The process, for me, brought clarity. If that clarity renews/improves/saves/ends our marriage, that's the path

[whichwayisup]

Jill did make one comment afterwards that Jack said I was "nice, maybe too nice"

 

It is possible he thought you were OVER compensating, trying too hard to show that you and Jill are "just" friends. Maybe he had the same gut reaction your wife has had. Maybe he has concerns too.

 

Anyway the idea of getting together and discussing you and Jill being friends as a group is bloody ridiculous! Sorry, but when friends get together, the focus is more than likely having fun and getting to know eachother, NOT talk about if it's OK and the spouses are comfy enough to allow the other two to be friends and hang out alone.

 

Someone's in denial and it's only a matter of time before this whole thing blows up. You are STILL choosing this friendship, wanting it badly, more than your own marriage.