Wife wants me to end friendship with co-worker

[Trojan John]

This alone says that Jill is more important than your wife. No wonder W is pissed. In a marriage, if one spouse says to the other, "I don't like you being friends with that girl/guy", the ONLY correct answer is, "They're history then, darling. Nobody comes before you."

 

Isn't that in the VOWS? Forsaking all others? Yeah, believe it is.

 

Would you forsake Jill?

 

I could see if his relationship with Jill was even borderline inappropriate (which it does not read as), but what would the reasoning here be besides his wife simply not liking her? Where does that end? Does she get to decide who all of his close friends are?

[angie2443]

did you read the whole thread? You may not understand this, but sex does not have to be involved to make a friendship harmful to a primary relationship. When the friend becomes more important to the spouse or private conversations between the spouses are shared with the friend, it will tare the marriage appart.

[walkermark]

Perhaps, in MC, after a month or two, he'll discover feelings which he currently isn't realizing and expressing, but that's for that time. Right now, post 80 appears to be his truth.

Post #80 is accurate.

 

If he is being honest, it appears that his "relationship" with Jill has been backed off to strictly work-related and in the work environment and he is proceeding into MC with his wife. I also note that he has responded calmly to all criticisms. He's doing much better than I did Let's give MC a chance and see where this goes.

This is true. I barely see or talk to her even for work. I did see Jill once in the past couple days for 5 minutes or so. mostly just said Hi and talked about Christmas gifts.

 

and in the work environment

It's never been outside the work environment

 

Should my W and I talk about things outside MC? I wasn't sure if some stuff should be saved for MC or what.

[Trojan John]

did you read the whole thread? You may not understand this, but sex does not have to be involved to make a friendship harmful to a primary relationship. When the friend becomes more important to the spouse or private conversations between the spouses are shared with the friend, it will tare the marriage appart.

 

I only read this:

 

however i have never complained about my W nor has Jill ever complained about Jack to me. In descending order, here is what we talk about:

Work

common interest 1

common interest 2

Family (spouses, kids, siblings)

 

Yes, We talk about our spouses - that's how I know she is in Love with Jack and how she knows I am in Love with my W. It's positive.

and this:

 

Here are some more examples of things i would never do with Jill:

1. When my wife comes home Jill is not there with me (duh)

 

2. I would NEVER joke with Jill or anyone that her and I were going to run off and "get it on". (this is disrespectful and wrong I love my wife too much to treat her like this)

 

3. We have never and will never share intimate details about our sex lives with each other.

 

4. I will not tell Jill the details of our fights

Still trying to find where I misread...

 

Still begs the questions as to what is it that his wife finds so threatening about his relationship with Jill.

[jwi71]

Should my W and I talk about things outside MC? I wasn't sure if some stuff should be saved for MC or what.

 

Openly and honestly talk to your W about all things at any time.

Do not misconstrue that as permission to use openness and honesty as a weapon. Feel free to repeat conversations at home with the MC and vice versa. Feel free to share whatever you wish for advice and opinion.

 

I still believe you have boundaries in place. I believe you cannot imagine crossing them (but your W does).

 

Go to MC. Talk. Go home. Talk.

Work on the anger, the hurt, the trust, and the betrayal.

 

You have taken the first steps in a long and painful fight - one you CAN win.

[signedin2008]

walkermark, how about a response to post # 151 and 152?

[carhill]

Should my W and I talk about things outside MC? I wasn't sure if some stuff should be saved for MC or what.

 

Our MC encouraged a time-limited "relationship session" at least once in between MC sessions, more often (like once a week) when sessions pushed out to bi-weekly/monthly. The focus during the sessions was on the "how" as much if not more so than the "what". Practicing the communication and listening tools we learned in MC. Recognizing our incompatibilities. Working to strengthen our similarities. Showing caring. Obviously, such is interwoven into everyday life, but our MC felt it important for us to independently focus specifically on our issues and know that was the time for the work.

 

Your situation and dynamic are likely different. A good MC adapts the course to the psychology of the couple. Like I said prior, think six months and then take a look at your progress.

[angie2443]

I only read this:

 

and this:

 

Still trying to find where I misread...

 

Still begs the questions as to what is it that his wife finds so threatening about his relationship with Jill.

 

There are over 150 post here. This is just one (or 2?). If you read between the lines, you may find some inconsistansies here.

[walkermark]

Your posts just sound too conflicting to me. One minute you say your relationship is fine. The next minute, you basically state that if your wife forces a conflict ( you and Jill together as friends) the bond you and your wife share is doomed. Something is really off here.

Sorry to confuse, I was trying to show how unfair that attitude is when turned around. After being married for 20 years, if we disagree on something should we just get divorced? (of course not) To me it feels like "either You do what I say, or we are not going to be married anymore", no matter what it is, no matter how fair, no matter how reasonable, because I am your W and me and my feelings are more important than anything else including yours.

 

Suppose I said OK, fine. Should my W do the same for me if I ask something of her in the future? She should obey me as long as I ask her and it's based on a "feeling" that I have that cannot be challenged, and I AM her H and my Feelings should be put above everything else.

 

Suppose a new couple move in next door. The W is our age and my W and her hit it off, they have a lot in common, they start hanging out after the kids leave for school, they like gardening, they go to art shows. basically become Pals and the friend that my wife has been missing. She seems happy, there are no problems and things are great between us. Can I say to her: "W, I am concerned that in the future, this new friend might start taking more of your time away from me and the family. I know it's not a problem now, but I have a feeling that it might become a problem. I want you to stop being friends. It's cool if you talk to her at the kids bus stop, but once the bus comes, I don't want you guys hanging out. If you continue, I want a Divorce" She should do it right? I should be more important than this friend.

 

Or suppose I say to her: "W, You know it's been 3 years since our youngest was born and it's clear that You have gained at least 30 Lbs since we were married and have lost interest in staying in shape. I know you don't have a family history of disease, but I am concerned that in the future you might let yourself go further and this could really become a health concern and you might be at higher risk for diabetes or heart trouble. I want you to get back to what you weighed at our wedding. You choose - get in shape or if you keep eating and being lazy we won't be married any more. " Again - she should do it right? I am her Husband and I have a concern about her health. Shouldn't her spouse be more important than overeating and laziness?

 

Of course I would not act like this to her. Why should it be OK for her to act like this to me?

 

You will probably ignore my point and just say well if that's your attitude then you should just end your sorry little marriage. But it's not MY attitude, it's HERS.

She is saying to me by her attitude:

You are not trustworthy

You are a Liar

You have no morals

You have no self control

You are a bad person

You will do the wrong thing unless I prevent you

[walkermark]

I have communicated that to her and if she is going to force this change then it will build resentment that could destroy the bond between us and maybe the marriage.

This alone says that Jill is more important than your wife. No wonder W is pissed.

No - I don't feel this way - I was taking my W's attitude and turning it around as if it was my own. As I suspected people were going to think now I am being the jerk.

In a marriage, if one spouse says to the other, "I don't like you being friends with that girl/guy", the ONLY correct answer is, "They're history then, darling. Nobody comes before you."

I guess to me that says " You caught me, I was doing something wrong, I'll stop now. Nobody comes before you"

Isn't that in the VOWS? Forsaking all others? Yeah, believe it is.

Would you forsake Jill?

Forsaking all others is in the vows - You are correct. I don't think that means you can't have friends though.

I would forsake Jill if that's what I need to do to stay married.

[walkermark]

walkermark, how about a response to post # 151 and 152?

Done, I just haven't had the time. We are traveling out of state for Christmas to visit family. I had the great idea of DRIVING - won't make that mistake next time. I need to read back and make sure I didn't miss other posts especially from angry Angie.

[signedin2008]

Post #161 is rediculous!

 

Your wife is not asking you to stop being friend with Jack, Bob or Steven, but another woman. Repeat, ANOTHER WOMAN. Why are you keep justifying yourself. Don't you see that the majority of people disagree with you for a reason or reasons.

 

Yes, I agree with you, if your wife is asking you to stop being friend with Jack because he is taking some time away from the marriage because of your non-excessive time spent together, I would call your wife unreasonable. But, this is NOT Jack! You are married!

[Walk]

A lot of times when a partner cheats then they'll assign their flaws to the faithful partner.

 

It seems to me that your wife is projecting who she is onto you. She's projecting her boundaries, her behaviors, her weaknesses on to the situation your in. Ascribing her view point to it.

 

I wouldn't feel comfortable with my H having a close female friend like Jill. Like wise, I don't expect my H to feel comfortable with me having a close male friend. If I were to have an opposite sex friend, then it's solely on me to make my H feel comfortable with it. If I can't do that, then I require (require it of myself) that I let that friend go.

[carhill]

Are we responsible for nurturing our spouse's insecurities?

 

Merry wet Christmas from Cali

[walkermark]

Post #161 is rediculous!

That was my point.

Your wife is not asking you to stop being friend with Jack, Bob or Steven, but another woman. Repeat, ANOTHER WOMAN. Why are you keep justifying yourself. Don't you see that the majority of people disagree with you for a reason or reasons.

Why does gender matter? It would be one thing if I had given her reason to not trust me. My W is the only one that has been unfaithful.

Yes, I agree with you, if your wife is asking you to stop being friend with Jack because he is taking some time away from the marriage because of your non-excessive time spent together, I would call your wife unreasonable. But, this is NOT Jack! You are married!

Again why does gender turn an unreasonable request (something you just agreed to here) into a reasonable one? There is far from excessive time spent with Jill.

 

I realize when two people are friends like Jill and I are, there is always the possiblity of something happening, however is a wife really going to feel loved and secure by someone who will only remain faithful to them by keeping the other person away?

Remember we are talking about keeping two people apart that have not done anything wrong and have given no one reason to not trust them. I Fully understand the difference between this and NC with a former lover or where the line has been crossed. In that case, NC is the only option.

[Trojan John]

There are over 150 post here. This is just one (or 2?). If you read between the lines, you may find some inconsistansies here.

 

No need to "read between the lines" if his posts word the situation exactly as it is.

 

Walkermark, I don't think that gender matters. Your wife, however, sees this woman as a threat for whatever reason. Try to figure it out, but don't give up your friendship just because, otherwise you'll find yourself doing more often.

 

Merry xmas. Chus.

[RecordProducer]

It seems that no matter what I tell My wife, She has really been looking at everything negatively.

The problem is not in your friendship with Jill. It's that your wife for some reason feels insecure about your marriage. If she were 100% sure in your love for her, nothing would bother her. I know the feeling.

 

The more I think of it, talking to Jack seems like the only answer, but I have to put myself in his shoes...

It's funny that you worry about Jill's husband, who is not your concern, to the point where you would try to resolve a problem that might not even exist. It's your job to worry about your wife. I can't tell you what exactly is wrong in your marriage (other than Jill), but something is. It doesn't mean that your friendship with Jill is wrong. I am actually sure that it's completely platonic. Your wife could simply be sensing that she is not as much on the same wave length with you as Jill is.

 

Close friendships between a man and a woman are NEVER entirely platonic. You don't seem to have a pals' kind of relationship with her - it's rather on an emotional level where you share personal stuff, comfort one another, feel the mutual connection, and enjoy each other's company in a different way than if it were a same-sex friendship. Moreover, not once did you say that your feelings for Jill are REALLY not romantic. You only mentioned that you've told your wife, Jill,a nd would tell her husband that there are not romantic.

 

Furthermore, you put her (or a made up) name in your post - it's as though you couldn't define her as a friend or a co-worker. She is "Jill" - the one and only. And her husband is not "Jill's husband" but simply "Jack" - some Jackass! Just Freudian reasoning...

[carhill]

You don't seem to have a pals' kind of relationship with her - it's rather on an emotional level where you share personal stuff, comfort one another, feel the mutual connection, and enjoy each other's company in a different way than if it were a same-sex friendship.

Let's work this.....what exactly do women share in their same-sex friendships? Take your best girlfriend for example. Be honest.

 

I can't tell you what exactly is wrong in your marriage (other than Jill), but something is. It doesn't mean that your friendship with Jill is wrong. I am actually sure that it's completely platonic. Your wife could simply be sensing that she is not as much on the same wave length with you as Jill is.

It is entirely possible she's (his wife) not equipped psychologically to be on the "same wavelength"

 

Close friendships between a man and a woman are NEVER entirely platonic.

I agree with this, if both people are heterosexual or bi-sexual. It's not the sexual undertones which define the appropriateness of the friendship; it's the way each person handles them. I define this separately from sexual attraction, which is IMO intrinsically unhealthy for any sort of platonic relationship. There are healthy and unhealthy ways. I think the OP will discover, with the help of a good counselor, these dynamics and much more.

 

If he and his wife are compatible and do still love each other, they can recover the healthy interdependence that is apparently in jeopardy right now. Let's hope so

[pelicanpreacher]

After rereading your thread Walkermark there was one social event that may have peaked your wife's concern about your friendship with Jill and that was her "cheerleading" episode at your softball game. In that situation I can see how your wife would sense that the feelings Jill espouses towards you could be construed as something other than platonic. Now, your wife is probably feeling like she has to compete with Jill on some level to assure your enthusiastic affection and this threatens her sense of security. I'm sure you can see my point, can't you?!!

[angie2443]

This is a useless thread. The OP came here not for advice but for people to tell him he is right.

 

The OP has two choices- The wife or Jill. He chooses the wife, he will loose Jill. If he chooses Jill he will loose the wife. Their really is no such thing as cake eating. If he tries to have both, the marriage will turn to crap. If it is already, then I have no idea why he sais he loves his wife and that the marriage is good. It obviously isn't.

 

The OP can go on and on in circles over this, but the out come of this situation is very obvious

[angie2443]

Post #161 is rediculous!

 

Your wife is not asking you to stop being friend with Jack, Bob or Steven, but another woman. Repeat, ANOTHER WOMAN. Why are you keep justifying yourself. Don't you see that the majority of people disagree with you for a reason or reasons.

 

Yes, I agree with you, if your wife is asking you to stop being friend with Jack because he is taking some time away from the marriage because of your non-excessive time spent together, I would call your wife unreasonable. But, this is NOT Jack! You are married!

 

I just wanted to responded to this before I leave this thread. Same sex friendships (among hetero couples) can be just as harmful to a marriage as opposite sex friendships. I don't know why so many people can't seem to understand this. If a spouse puts his/her friend on an equal or higher level than their own spouse, the friendship will tare the marriage apart bit by bit. Seems to be what's happening here.

[walkermark]

The problem is not in your friendship with Jill. It's that your wife for some reason feels insecure about your marriage. If she were 100% sure in your love for her, nothing would bother her. I know the feeling.

Walkermark, I don't think that gender matters. Your wife, however, sees this woman as a threat for whatever reason. Try to figure it out, but don't give up your friendship just because, otherwise you'll find yourself doing more often.

I think this is where I am right now. I am backed off from talking to Jill much more than just for work, I am going to MC, and I am trying hard to show my wife how much I love her and I am in love with her.

W says she is open to compromise on my friendship to Jill, but when I ask specifics, it's limited to the following:

work related contact (was never in question so this isn't a compromise from her original position)

group lunches (if we just both happen to be there)

Work related email (no talking about anything else)

 

I have plenty of people at work that I interact with like that - They are not friends though. Friends are people you want to talk to and hang out with every once and a while. I feel like W is saying compromise, but she's got the same restrictions that she started with and hasn't really compromised at all. People might think she doesn't have to, but SHE said she was willing to compromise and be reasonable.

 

It's funny that you worry about Jill's husband, who is not your concern, to the point where you would try to resolve a problem that might not even exist. It's your job to worry about your wife. I can't tell you what exactly is wrong in your marriage (other than Jill), but something is. It doesn't mean that your friendship with Jill is wrong. I am actually sure that it's completely platonic. Your wife could simply be sensing that she is not as much on the same wave length with you as Jill is.

 

Close friendships between a man and a woman are NEVER entirely platonic. You don't seem to have a pals' kind of relationship with her - it's rather on an emotional level where you share personal stuff, comfort one another, feel the mutual connection, and enjoy each other's company in a different way than if it were a same-sex friendship. Moreover, not once did you say that your feelings for Jill are REALLY not romantic. You only mentioned that you've told your wife, Jill,a nd would tell her husband that there are not romantic.

When you say Never entirely platonic, can you give some examples that I might not be aware of. I think Jill and I are entirely platonic. We don't go play tennis together ( I do that with W) We don't do anything together but if We did, I would think it should include our spouses. I don't have any friends (same sex or not) that I really do anything with. I spend all my free time with my wife and family, not friends. The only friends I might spend time with would be tennis friends and people we know from there. 75% of the time my W is with me. Yes there are times I spend time with Tennis friends without her, but we are playing tennis, not hanging out, not eating lunch or dinner. I guess I don't have that Pal relationship with anyone.

 

My feelings for Jill are REALLY not romantic. I thought I had made that clear earlier. If I had romantic feelings or a crush on her or sexual thoughts or a sexual attraction to her. If I felt any of these things then my W would be right and I would do everything she asked and probably more. I would request a job transfer or look for a new job.

 

Furthermore, you put her (or a made up) name in your post - it's as though you couldn't define her as a friend or a co-worker. She is "Jill" - the one and only. And her husband is not "Jill's husband" but simply "Jack" - some Jackass! Just Freudian reasoning...

I guess I thought a made up name would be easier to reference. I used Jack and Jill from the fairy tale. She is a friend in addition to being a coworker. I also have Sue, the other female friend. I thought of giving names to W and Same Sex friends 1 and 2, but it seemed too confusing. Jack is far from a Jackass. I am not sure where that came from certainly not my posts. Jack is awesome. I have met him a couple times and heard about him from Jill and several other common friends. Everyone talks about him being a really great guy and having met him I agree!

[walkermark]

After rereading your thread Walkermark there was one social event that may have peaked your wife's concern about your friendship with Jill and that was her "cheerleading" episode at your softball game. In that situation I can see how your wife would sense that the feelings Jill espouses towards you could be construed as something other than platonic. Now, your wife is probably feeling like she has to compete with Jill on some level to assure your enthusiastic affection and this threatens her sense of security. I'm sure you can see my point, can't you?!!

Cheerleading? Softball? Possibly this was confused with another thread?

There is no contact or event or email, nothing she said or anything from Jill that could be construed as anything other than Platonic. W is basing everything on Jill being a female and a good friend. W does feel like she has to compete, but Jill is no competition for her. She does not have to compete.

[carhill]

Is W's dislike of/insecurities about Jill reasonable, healthy and appropriate? She is entitled to her perspective and it is valid, but a competent MC will explore the psychology of that perspective and of the resultant behaviors and relational issues. Such explorations can be painful, for both parties, as the journey invariably includes many aspects of spouses shared and individual histories. I hope the OP is ready for that with an open mind. IME, an open mind is the best tool one can possibly approach this with, combined with a willingness to look critically at their own perspective. OP, are you ready?

[lonelyandfrustrated]

Cheerleading? Softball? Possibly this was confused with another thread?

 

It was this thread, but it was another poster.

 

Back on topic: why are you not willing to put your wife's feelings first on this matter? you keep arguing that there's nothing going on, your wife has no reason to worry...yet she DOES worry and has told you this, but you seem to be saying, "Tough cookies, baby! Jill's here to stay!"