Wife wants me to end friendship with co-worker

[carhill]

I think this is where I am right now. I am backed off from talking to Jill much more than just for work, I am going to MC, and I am trying hard to show my wife how much I love her and I am in love with her.

W says she is open to compromise on my friendship to Jill, but when I ask specifics, it's limited to the following:

work related contact (was never in question so this isn't a compromise from her original position)

group lunches (if we just both happen to be there)

Work related email (no talking about anything else)

 

I have plenty of people at work that I interact with like that - They are not friends though. Friends are people you want to talk to and hang out with every once and a while. I feel like W is saying compromise, but she's got the same restrictions that she started with and hasn't really compromised at all. People might think she doesn't have to, but SHE said she was willing to compromise and be reasonable.

 

OP, would you agree to her specifics (regardless of whether you think they are reasonable) for an agreed-upon period (I recommended six months) while in MC? IMO, your health is predicated upon your willingness to compromise rather than your assessment of her willingness. That assessment will come later. Be proactive.

[RecordProducer]

Let's work this.....what exactly do women share in their same-sex friendships? Take your best girlfriend for example. Be honest.

When I am around men, even ones I am not attracted to, my blood is boiling. I just can't forget that in their eyes I am a vagina-owner before anything else. Talking to men is more exciting than talking to women. I wonder if they find me attractive, for example, and I don't mean in the ego way (because I don't wonder if women find themselves attracted to me). If I am with my partner, I wonder if they would gladly be in his shoes and if they would ask me out of they could. Of course, they have to be in the age range and social circumstances that match. I don't see 70-year old men or family members as "men."

 

It is entirely possible she's (his wife) not equipped psychologically to be on the "same wavelength"

That's THEE problem! Spouses are rarely 100% compatible or on the same wave lenth - so if an outsider fills in a gap that exists between them, it could widen the gap and create problems. Especially if the outsider is cute and charming. As radical as it sounds, the best way to avoid this is NOT to bring outsiders that connect with one of the spouses in the marriage. A marriage is not a perfectly stable "chemical solution" - it's like Oxygen (O2), it will "gladly" combine with another O and crete Ozone (O3). And then it's not Oxygen (marriage) anymore. Two is company, three is a crowd.

 

The problem is that marriage is not based only on sexual fidelity. If you can find in someone else what you don't find in your wife or you need variety, it feels like cheating for the spouse who is left behind. Or at least that's how they feel.

 

IW says she is open to compromise on my friendship to Jill, but when I ask specifics, it's limited to the following:

work related contact (was never in question so this isn't a compromise from her original position)

group lunches (if we just both happen to be there)

Work related email (no talking about anything else)

In other words, if Jill would move to New Zealand, it wouldn't be far enough.

 

but SHE said she was willing to compromise and be reasonable.

She said that, but she didn't mean it. Unfortunately, as unreasonable as it sounds, you'll have to choose between your wife and your friend. Because you were basically presented with the ultimatum. Either say goodbye to the five bucks and eat or keep the money and stay hungry. We face ultimatums each day.

 

When you say Never entirely platonic, can you give some examples that I might not be aware of.

Well, for example, talking about your kids or sports or world news is platonic. Even telling stories from your past or joking is mostly innocent. Talking about your likes and dislikes in a woman, about love and sex crosses the line in most cases. Having so-called internal jokes or your own "language" makes people very close. Giggling a lot or talking in a close way, sitting close, touching each other, talking about everything that happened yesterday, discussing moods or family problems, comforting and supporting one another, looking them straight in the eye with a sprakle... those are the things that make friendships between a man and a woman more than platonic.

My feelings for Jill are REALLY not romantic.

I believe you, but your wife doesn't. Is Jill an attractive woman? Because, judging by your wife's jealousy, it sounds like she is.

[LifesontheUp]

W says she is open to compromise on my friendship to Jill, but when I ask specifics, it's limited to the following:

work related contact (was never in question so this isn't a compromise from her original position)

group lunches (if we just both happen to be there)

Work related email (no talking about anything else)

 

 

But she has compromised - allowing work contact.

 

I have a number of male friends but DO NOT discuss my personal chats I have with my OH with them............thats personal and between me and OH.

 

IMHO I think you are deep down enjoying hurting your wife just as she hurt you. You just don't want to accept the dangerous path you are following.

[pelicanpreacher]

Cheerleading? Softball? Possibly this was confused with another thread?

There is no contact or event or email, nothing she said or anything from Jill that could be construed as anything other than Platonic. W is basing everything on Jill being a female and a good friend. W does feel like she has to compete, but Jill is no competition for her. She does not have to compete.

 

You're absolutely right, LOL! It was Taylor's story on your thread that twixed my signals, sorry.

[carhill]

When I am around men, even ones I am not attracted to, my blood is boiling. I just can't forget that in their eyes I am a vagina-owner before anything else. Talking to men is more exciting than talking to women. I wonder if they find me attractive, for example, and I don't mean in the ego way (because I don't wonder if women find themselves attracted to me). If I am with my partner, I wonder if they would gladly be in his shoes and if they would ask me out of they could. Of course, they have to be in the age range and social circumstances that match. I don't see 70-year old men or family members as "men."

 

Love ya to death, but you didn't answer my question. It was "what", as in subject matter, do you talk about with women (same-sex) friends? Do you talk about your husband's "equipment"? How good he is in bed (or not). How he pissed you off today? Other personal subjects. I know for a fact that my wife does this, with her girlfriends. Do you solicit advice or accept advice regarding your marriage? Do you have a sister? Talk to her about the same things?

 

See, I've known enough women in my life as friends (non-sexual friends) to know what they share with each other. It's the advantage of being a girlfriend with a penis. I know exactly how they can prioritize their friends over their husband/boyfriend. I've seen it, and not only in my marriage.

 

I'm here to tell you it's unhealthy and I'm not going to stand for it I think I heard the same thing from a female poster here upthread. The same would apply to a guy and his male friends. This is something we worked on in depth during MC. The descriptor is "inappropriate emotional attachment". It's exactly what the OP and his wife will have to examine in MC. I'll bet she has a few of her own. We just won't hear about it from the OP.

 

The OP still has to do his part, regardless of his wife's perspective, actions, or words. His work is his work and it starts with, IMO, a vacation from Jill (already done) and MC (started). Last ingredient is time. Time will reveal all truths

[whichwayisup]

I think RP is saying if a friend, male or female, becomes more of a priority than a spouse, then it's going to cause problems in the marriage. Bottomline, spouses come first before any friendship (Unless obviously it's emergency or something) but if the spouse is spending MORE time with friend(s), focussing more on friends, then yeah, it'll cause issues..

[carhill]

If you can show me in the quoted textual answer to my question where she said that, you earn 100 bucks

[RecordProducer]

Let's work this.....what exactly do women share in their same-sex friendships? Take your best girlfriend for example. Be honest.

I talk about absolutely everything with my mom or best girlfriends or even male friends. But if I had a co-worker who became my friend, I would keep a certain distance with him if I wanted him to stay just a friend - just like I have with guy friends in the past. I think the woman is the one who dictates the dynamics of a friendship in the sense that she can allow or initiate more intimate conversations.

 

I think OP's wife's problem is that Jill is an attractive woman and he enjoys spending time with her, even if they talk about work only. Her requirement that they only talk about work basically means she hopes he'd stop talking to her at all. We don't really know their history (or maybe he mentioned it, but I didn't read the entire thread); maybe he has expressed his dissatisfaction with his wife's faults, and she thinks that he is more fascinated with Jill. For example, when my husband tells me that somebody's wife is a very nice and good person, it pisses me off because he's met these women once or twice, but he's never told ME that I am a good person - on the contrary, I am bad in every possible way.

[ella23]

are you guys here serious? So people can't have close platonic relationships? Ridiculous.

[ella23]

Close friendships between a man and a woman are NEVER entirely platonic.

hmm in the other thread about the male and female business partners in the dating section, you were being pretty supportive of the OP.

[carhill]

I brought this thread up in the other thread:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1974202&postcount=84

 

I'd also like to go on the record as being supportive of both OP's. I've lived this conundrum most of my life and can truly see both sides. I also know that women instinctively and overwhelmingly support other women in such situations, so I merely wish for them to acknowledge that as well as that men do see their behaviors in such situations and will form judgements about them based on those behaviors. I can't control their actions, merely my reaction to them. Enjoy

[whichwayisup]

are you guys here serious? So people can't have close platonic relationships? Ridiculous.

 

Not when the other spouse has issues with it. Not when the other spouse is excluded from the friendship and it's affecting the marriage.

[johan]

are you guys here serious? So people can't have close platonic relationships? Ridiculous.

 

There is no rule against them. There are, however, rules against lying to your partner. And there should be rules against lying to yourself. When discussing such a relationship, people should just not pretend that they are both close and platonic. That doesn't exist between straight men and women.

[moonshadow]

are you guys here serious? So people can't have close platonic relationships? Ridiculous.

 

Very interesting response, Ella. For in the particular thread that you referred Carhill to, in that thread you're very much taking the side of the "fiance" who has given his fiancee (the OP in that thread) an ultimatum that unless she sells her half of the business she owns with a male business partner, he will not marry her..................yet here you find it "Ridiculous" that people can't have close platonic relationships. You seem to be a walking (err, typing) contradiction LMAO!

[whichwayisup]

When discussing such a relationship, people should just not pretend that they are both close and platonic.

 

If a man and women spend everyday together and talk throughout the evening, and on weekends, eventually feelings DO happen. Maybe not intentionally, but it does creep up. This is why everyone keeps telling the original poster to open his eyes..He's in deeper than he realizes, as is Jill, but neither of them are going to admit it because if they do, it'll change the whole dynamtic of their friendship. Women tend to get emotionally attached more than men, so in all honesty, walker may not be aware of this. Again, not intentionally, but the more time they are alone together, the feelings will crop up.

[Island Girl]

are you guys here serious? So people can't have close platonic relationships? Ridiculous.

 

Not if close means that "platonic" same-gender-as-your-spouse friend is just as close or closer to you than your spouse.

 

When two people are married they are supposed to be the nucleus and everyone else is outside of that circle.

 

And if your spouse feels uncomfortable it should be taken into consideration as if you yourself felt those same feelings toward that other person and make the decision based on that.

[RecordProducer]

hmm in the other thread about the male and female business partners in the dating section, you were being pretty supportive of the OP.

In the other thread the man and woman were business partners, not close friends. In the other thread, the jealous partner wanted to break the business relationship.

 

The threads would be equivalent if this wife asked her husband to quit a great job because he is working with this woman. The wife thinks that the friendship is inappropriate and too close (which may or may not be true). Her ultimatum (me or Jill) may be unreasonable, but in the other thread the guy wants the girl to choose between her co-owned business and the future marriage.

 

Sorry for hijacking this thread, but it's fine to make parallels between threads, in my opinion. I think the guy is just some bum who doesn't want his wife with an MBA and a successful business to have the upper hand. He wants to make her dependent instead of independent. He knows well that if she breaks up her business for the marriage, he can demand that she doesn't work altogether in the future. How can you even compare the two? Demanding that your partner cut her income source because of your jealousy is ridiculous.

 

And no, business partners doesn't indicate of intimate closeness. I don't know if you know what consulting is, but you need a team to work on business solution for clients who are company owners. It only means that she respects his knowledge. It also means he never tried to get in her pants or she wouldn't be comfortable spending ten hours a day with him. There are plenty of law firms that consist of female and male partners - they simply join their expertise to gain more clients and they share the same office building and secretary. But since you, Ella, are a woman (I assume by your username), you go ahead and stop working when your partner snaps his fingers and depend on him.

[carhill]

The threads would be equivalent if this wife asked her husband to quit a great job because he is working with this woman.

 

Not uncommon here on LS (that kind of advice about quitting a great job to sever an "inappropriate friendship") and, true, it hasn't happened to this OP yet, but the thread is still young

 

Let's hope calmer heads prevail....

[Tomcat33]

I've read this entire thread and quite frankly walkermark here is what I can conclude. Let me make very clear I don't support close friendships of the opposite sex initiated after a partnership is formed,

 

Having said that, this situation is NOT about cheating but moreso about feeling a sense of settling the score:

 

1. I believe you that there is nothing going on here with Jill and that there is no potential danger to more of an emotional tie as far as you are aware. I trust that what you feel today is what you are telling us here. I honestly think you are neither in denial nor hiding anything, I think you know full well what you are doing.

 

2. I think in time and with councelling (if you don't already know this) you will discover a much deeper rooted answer to why you are fundamentally fighting this and my guess is that you have not forgiven your W for cheating on you (as miniscule an act as some may see it as, it was something that was of a great deal to YOU and you have every right to feel let down and deceived by both your W and the man who was your friend) see point 3 for reason

 

3. Since you have not managed to fully forgive the fact that your W did that to you with your best or close friend, the idea that Jill creates so much uneasiness in your W while you are FULLY aware there is NO danger here for her whatsoever, is mighty satisfying to you on a very deep level. It is really satisfying for you to see your W feeling all this insecurity about the two of you and the fact that she would feel this by a woman friend, let's remember you are only choosing to have female friends to also cement the idea that SHE made you do this because SHE made you lose trust in men by crossing the line with your best friend therefore you are teaching her two lessons for the price of one.

 

You know how your W said she would have never forgiven you if the roles were reversed if it were you in her shoes, well guess what? She prob doesn't even know that for sure, she prob WOULD forgive you but by telling you that it is her way of scaring you into NOT getting back at her for what she did to you. Let's face it recovering from deceit in a relationship is half the battle the other half is overcoming all the fears and insecurities the cheating person feels when they have to wonder every single day of their lives to come, will they or will they not get revenge for what I did to them? Her telling you she would dump you for no second chances is essentially saying "don't even think about getting revenge because I will dump you without a second thought" that is her way of making sure you don't get revenge. So what do you do? YOu go and do the next best thing, keep her on pins and needles while never crossing any lines.

 

It's a masterpiece in revenge really.

 

 

Though you likely will never cheat on her, the idea that she thinks you might is ENOUGH for you to feel like you are getting some equal footing in terms of the past.

 

Perhaps therapy will help you deal with finding a way to practice TRUE forgiveness. This is not it.

 

As per all the needy responses of "why won't you respond to my post", because you don't have to seems like a fair response to me, looking from the outside in. You get what you want out of the posts.

Don't feel any sort of need to respond to mine, I am putting this out there if it lights a few bulbs great. If not, no offense taken.

 

Carhill I commend you on all the great advice you have given, as always!

[dnm]

I'm in a similar situation, only that I have been friends with the guy since before I got together with my fiance. I own a business with the guy, but my fiance doesn't like it.

[Owl]

Good reply, TC!

 

It all boils down to this...

 

Wallermark simply doesn't care enough about his wife to safeguard his marriage and relationship with her by ending his relationship with Jill.

 

It doesn't matter if anything is going on between Jill and Waller or not. I believe him when he says that there isn't.

 

But...he refuses to take action to safeguard his marriage...he refuses to acknowledge that his wife's feelings on this matter...regardless of whether or not there's anything going on.

 

He simply doesn't care enough to change the situation.

 

I agree with TC...as I stated earlier in this thread, I suspect this is because he never truly recovered from her kiss with his best friend all those years ago.

 

That does NOT make this all her fault, however.

 

To me, this is simple.

 

Either get off your butt, realize that your attitude is what's creating the problem here, and fix it...or...realize that your attitude is what's creating the problem here, and divorce your wife since you don't care enough to fix it.

 

That simple.

 

Anything more is just extraneous BS.

 

If you care about your wife...if you love her and want to be married to her...then realize the basis of her fears, end the friendship with Jill, and work on rebuilding your marriage before you pursue any other relationships that could be considered threatening.

 

If you don't care about your wife...file for divorce, and do whatever the heck you want to do.

 

NOT rocket science.

[Tomcat33]

thanks OWL sorry didn't realise you had made the same comment earlier on I sort of mostly focused on the OP's posts.

See sometimes we do think alike!

 

Either get off your butt, realize that your attitude is what's creating the problem here, and fix it...or...realize that your attitude is what's creating the problem here, and divorce your wife since you don't care enough to fix it.

 

I would agree, something's got to give. Regardless of what is driving the decisions on his part now, it is simply not working as is.

[norajane]

I'm in a similar situation, only that I have been friends with the guy since before I got together with my fiance. I own a business with the guy, but my fiance doesn't like it.

 

Your situation is completely different. Completely. Which is why you've had such different replies to your thread.

[pelicanpreacher]

I think the problem that you'll face down the road if you continue to persist in maintaining this relationship with Jill is that your wife will arrive at a point where she will say "F*** it and F*** you"! After this point, even if you completely throw Jill under the bus, it will be too late to salvage your marriage for once your wife detaches emotionally from you it is very unlikely that her pride will allow her to come back. I've said it once and I'll say it again ... "Beware of surface perceptions lest you Titanic yourself upon an iceberg"!

[carhill]

After this point, even if you completely throw Jill under the bus, it will be too late to salvage your marriage for once your wife detaches emotionally from you it is very unlikely that her pride will allow her to come back.

 

Can't speak for the OP's wife but this is exactly what impelled my disconnection, except that it was same-sex relationships prioritized over the marriage, and at a very precarious time.

 

I'll insert another gentle reminder that the OP has discontinued his friendship with Jill. He does work with her, as well as Sue, and apparently a "working" relationship is acceptable to his wife. Should he now quit his job, proactively?

 

I might suggest he and Jill both quit and start their own business together, but that would incite a riot