husband had affair doesn't want sex with me

[itspersonal]

I cannot tell you how waking up to the messages I received this morning has not only made me able to think positive but has also made me feel so much more centered...I look forward to coming to this site every day even though I don't want to have to be here.

 

65tr6 I read your post and I too want to commit fully and move forward.I want to save my marriage it is just the fear of what our marriage may be I guess and that is what staying in today is for,,,,I am trying so hard. We talked last night when he got home from his trip! He told me he feels no sexual desire,,,not because of me but because of his confusion and his need to deal with all the reason he did something against his belief and grain. He said that he loves me and that he is concerned that there is too much water under the bridge but he hopes we can fix it. He wants to snuggle with me but he just doesn't feel sexual towards anyone or anything,,,he says he thinks it is just an emotional shutdown and he says that he is working on that. He told me the counselor told him he "was not responsible for my feelings" and I told him,,,well, he isn't responsible for how I react to things and he isn't responsible for me but he is responsible for his part in how I feel about what he did and he is responsible to me and his actions. I couldn't explain it to him in a way he could understand...no he cannot be responsible for fixing my feelings but he is responsible to me for his behavior that illicits these feelings no matter what they are. I don't know if that makes sense,,,he says he feels like he has always since he was a little boy felt responsible for everyones feelings, and reactions. It was sad to hear him say that. I do relate though,,,I have learned that it is self centered thinking that we are so important that we hold the cards for others so to speak. Bottom line,,,it is damage. I guess he will get that cleared up some time because taking no responsibility for others feelings opens alot for interpretation. I said that being responsible TO someone opens the door for evaluating our behaviors prior to them to see how they may affect others in a positive or negative light,,,is this not correct? He told me that most of what happened had to do with his childhood issues and the fact that I always decide for him what he is feeling and I finish his truth. True enough,,,some of that is I think I know best,,,some of that is the fact that I am never believing what he is saying because he has never really shared honestly with me about his feelings..,,I noted that I kept telling him what he was feeling as I was saying this which was an eye opener for me. Because I had to guess our whole marriage,,,I then decided it for him and it came from my perception of what I thought not what was real. That was really hard to admit.,,,even now.I have done that our whole marriage and he has allowed it without saying anything because I am not sure he ever did know what he felt,,,it was our way,,,our sickness, our dysfunction. I "feel" for him and it is twisted by my own fears etc. I believe (from experience not just deciding) that he holds all his resentments in,,,he doesn't speak truth and then he lets me interpret for him so that I am responsible for his anger. That has been hard,,I am responsible for figuring out what he is feeling or the meaning behind his words or lack of words,,then I am responsible to figure out what do to and to fix it and it is all in my warped childhood **** and judgement...then I figure it out all wrong and he then resents me and flings mud at me. He has his part in this,,,,,he has never told his true feelings and that is his to own,,,but jeeezzz how could I have taken all that on? I am a fixer,,,a genuine fixer and I really fixed this didn't I,,,I fixed him good along with everyone else in my life,,,wow,,,eye opener,,,No wonder he found someone to listen to him,,,,however in my defense,,,he never told me this before and gave me the chance to listen,,,,I just told on the caretaker role and decided to feel for him. He allowed it. I never knew why he was always so angry with me,,I never knew. So I guess we are making head way here. I believe in him but I think what I felt was,,,,no healthy person is going to want me,,,I chose unhealthy and now I am going to lose him when he wants to be healthy. My own self esteem issue glaring and rearing its ugly head at me. Who in their right mind would want me if they were healthy,,,,that comes from a long history of sexual and physical abuse as a child and emotional abuse from being raised by a narcissistic mother....seriously sick! I have been working on myself for years but seeing me for who I am is so painful because I fear that I am worthless if I am damaged goods,,,so I guess we both feel that way,,,,in comes the white knight on his horse,,,my fixer,,,my savior,,,interesting how the fixer needed to be fixed isn't it. So now he wants to fix himself not me and I am scared,,,terrified that I am not ok,,, that I have once again not been good enough in something that I wanted so badly to do right. So I realize that a lot of my devastation comes from being so afraid that this one thing I put everything in to and promised my self I would do differently then my childhood,,,,may have been done wrong. Make sense? Where is my worth then,,in my thinking? I made him responsible for taking care of me and in turn I thought for him,,,,I took care of him,,,and I blamed him for any and all mistakes that happened in our home,,,well,,I verbally blamed him but inside I felt responsible. I married an angry man and I could focus on that and say well poor me,,,instead of healing my myself from the anger I grew up in,,,that negated my responsibility in the relationship,,,,it was HIM HIM HIM look how I am a victim,,,of HIM. Now he really has played the victimizer role,,,and he did it well all our marriage,,,so his self esteem and his feelings of himself were reinforced and there you have it. What a mess huh? So along comes "you are so wonderful and I look up to you OW" and wham,,,he also chose someone who was dysfunctional and married to an alcoholic to fix,,,interesting huh,,,I have been working on this for years and when I finally start to see me,,,he finds someone else to fix and control...two control freaks trying to make it work,,,wow. I am so sad today; but the dark place is somewhere hiding so that is good! I want to make this better and I can only imagine what that might mean....so I won't! I will stay in this day and heal what I can today,,,I love him, I want him and I will fight and work for our relationship,,,we are both broken. I believe we always have been. Insight is a beginning. You all have helped me see that. I want peace in my life,,,I want him to be peaceful too...I don't want to hurt him or accuse him I want to see him as who he really is,,,a broken person who went to far with the trying to find the glue to fix himself and now is willing to start mending himself. I am scared,,what if I am too damaged for him to love...stay in today right....I turn everything inward and that is my panic and feelings of desperation,,God can help and he could and would if he were sought,,,I am seeking,,,

 

Bless you all today and thank you,,,,your feedback is still my saving grace

[itspersonal]

I just start streaming when I write,,,,it pours out of me and I am afraid if I break it up I will lose what is coming out,,,,maybe if I write it on paper but then I will lose the connection to you all. I know I am posting long posts but I don't know how to stop the flow once it starts and then restart again. I hope it isn't too much. My grief is so overwhelming,,,my emotions so raw but today I see a ray of hope,,a flash of light,,,and as you have all said,,stay in today! Robert, I wish your wife could hug me and I could hug her,,we are kindred in our pain. All I can say for her is LOVE HER, SHOW HER, TOUCH HER, REASSURE HER, NURTURE HER, well you know,,,those are the things i need too. She sounds amazing and truthfully so do you. Thank you I cannot say it enough. I feel in some kind of protective shell being here,,,it is so odd. Today I don't want to die and that is a good thing. Today I feel safe,,you all have helped. Him being home helps too, he travels so much and I get all messed up. I rely on him too much,,,I need to rely on me. But how? I hate grief it scares me and it ages me. May I ask, what is your wifes name? Mine is Susan.

Thank you to her for caring enough to sit on the end of the bed with you and be inside my pain when she has her own. Amazing.

[itspersonal]

Please stop pining for the past. It is causing you nothing but pain and retarding YOUR ability to move forward. Let it go. Face the future.

Some questions if I may:

1) What has he done to convince you he wants the marriage to work?

2) What do you get out of being married to him?

3) Why do you think he hasn't filed for divorce?

 

It is hard to not want what was but I see it is only causing me pain,,,the question is how do i not pin?

He has gone to therapy twice a week and he is talking to me and telling me he wants us and he wants to get well and never do something like this again so he is trying to figure himself and the reasons out.

I love being married to him,,,for security ,,,for love,,,for our children,,,for his smell, his touch, his goodness, his love, his companionship,,,

I think he wants to make it work but is scared we can't ,,,his comment that there may be too much resentment and water under the bridge scared me so much. I asked him if we have had more loving times then not and he wasn't sure which shocked me,,,,but I guess he loves me or he would have filed.

 

Thank you for you insight

[itspersonal]

Hi Itspersonal,

It's human nature to take one step away when someone is pursuing you... therefore FORCE yourself not to chase after your H for love/affection/affirmation/ validation etc... because he simply wont give it to you like you want & need it.

you are so right,,,it is just so hard to put into practice but I am trying. I just miss him so much. He says "baby I am right here" but I miss his love making and his needing me that way. I will step away and allow him time. I do try to be validated by him. I know this. I need to learn to validate myself. He could never convince me anyway you are right on that cound too. It will never be enough now that this has happened,,at least not now. I will back away and allow him his space. I will try! Thank you I know the marriage is different but I am scared. Does that mean I won't be good enough? Does that mean he won't want me? I don't know anymore but I guess staying in this moment will help. Words that easier said then done. I will work on this today! EVERYDAY

[Athena]

you are so right,,,it is just so hard to put into practice but I am trying. I just miss him so much. He says "baby I am right here" but I miss his love making and his needing me that way. I will step away and allow him time. I do try to be validated by him. I know this. I need to learn to validate myself. He could never convince me anyway you are right on that cound too. It will never be enough now that this has happened,,at least not now. I will back away and allow him his space. I will try! Thank you I know the marriage is different but I am scared. Does that mean I won't be good enough? Does that mean he won't want me? I don't know anymore but I guess staying in this moment will help. Words that easier said then done. I will work on this today! EVERYDAY

 

The marriage being different is just because HE is acting differently. He doesn't like himself now. He is retreating into himself. Give him time and space to 'lick his wounds' and feel he has earned the right to approach you again. Really, really, really this is not because of YOU and what you have done to him, or failed to do for him, because he could have asked you at any point to back off, or to change, or a hundred other options. The action he took was perhaps to shock him into sitting up and taking notice. Now HE has to figure things out, but he cannot also prop you up. Don't fall apart. Try to withdraw sufficiently so that you are not a messy pulp of emotions, crying, being needy, worrying, etc.

 

You really must stop blaming yourself and over-analyzing him and his actions. I know it comes naturally as you try to figure out your role in it, but it gives you the illusion of having control over him, which you don't have. You can only play your part, and if you play the part of helpless and grasping desperateness it's not going to be helpful to him.

Say whatever you can say to yourself to back off from him.

 

He will come back to you. Act confidant, as much as possible.

 

Did you line up three friends in real life that you can phone at any time, day or night to vent? Have you confided in your family and friends... that truly helps.

[taylor]

Taylor, don't mean to offend because I agree that it would make for easier reading, but in a way, the long, stream-of-conscious, outpouring style that ItsPersonal uses emphasizes the despair she's feeling. If she broke things up into paragraphs, it would show structure in her thinking, logic in her reasoning. What she's going through right now is not at all logical, and her posts show it. Again, I'm not countering your suggestion, just offering an observation of why ItsPersonal may be writing the way she does.

 

Point well taken and understood. Please know I also meant no offense. I only offered it as a suggestion because I know some posters are reluctant to read long posts and will skip over them if they are deemed to difficult to read.

[jwi71]

Please stop pining for the past. It is causing you nothing but pain and retarding YOUR ability to move forward. Let it go. Face the future.

 

Some questions if I may:

1) What has he done to convince you he wants the marriage to work?

2) What do you get out of being married to him?

3) Why do you think he hasn't filed for divorce?

 

It is hard to not want what was but I see it is only causing me pain,,,the question is how do i not pin?

He has gone to therapy twice a week and he is talking to me and telling me he wants us and he wants to get well and never do something like this again so he is trying to figure himself and the reasons out.

I love being married to him,,,for security ,,,for love,,,for our children,,,for his smell, his touch, his goodness, his love, his companionship,,,

I think he wants to make it work but is scared we can't ,,,his comment that there may be too much resentment and water under the bridge scared me so much. I asked him if we have had more loving times then not and he wasn't sure which shocked me,,,,but I guess he loves me or he would have filed.

 

Thank you for you insight

 

That's the trick isn't it. How to let go of the past and what once was.

You will stop when you DECIDE to stop. There is nothing your H can tell you that will help. There is nothing I can tell you. There is nothing your MC can tell you. You simply choose to stop.

 

How much longer do you wish to live like this? Days? Weeks? Months? Years?

 

Stop it NOW. Save yourself this unbearable sense of loss and grief. Do it for YOU. Do it for your M. Your H is telling you as much. His comments of "too much damage" are reinforced by these behaviors. It further convinces him of what is lost and hope begins to fade. And the M dies a slow death. STOP IT. Focus on the now, be mindful of the past and think of the future. You are solely in the past. I beg you to stop.

 

Live for now, live for tomorrow. Can you change the past? No? Then stop obsessing over it. Stop letting it control you and your future.

 

You guess he loves you. I PROMISE he does. The proof is simple, easy and obvious. Your H had a place to run - her. He had a new and exciting life with her. He had every chance and opportunity to divorce you. But he didn't. Because he LOVES YOU. That simple.

 

Ask him. You already have. He already said yes. And you doubted him. But he isn't lying.

 

Questions:

1) Why do you think he stays married to you?

2) What does he get out of the marriage?

3) Why does he think you have not filed for divorce?

 

And let me know when you think you are ready for the really hard questions. And those really suck - but you must answer them. I did. And yeah, it wasn't fun for me either (but so helpful).

[itspersonal]

I think he stays married to me because I am really good person and he loves that part of me, I am pretty and thoughtful and decent

He gets love and safety out of the marriage,,,,,he gets understanding and a wife who tries very hard to make him happy,,,he gets his family unit intact, he gets me,,,,

He hasn't divorced me because he must love me or he would have and he must want it to work out if it can

 

Now do I ask him those questions or were they strickly for me?

 

What are the hard questions? I want them,,,I want to fix me and my part in the M.

 

I will try,,,I will do it,,,I will give all I have to focusing on today,,,I am just grieving so deeply and I don't want to stuff that down. I don't tell him all the things I write on this forum. I do call my friends,,I am doing what I can and I agree I need to stay in today and the future but I dont know how to do that until I grieve the loss of what was and isn't and what happened. I will work in this. I thank you for your honesty,,,I do want to know the questions and I do want to heal. I am lost and don't really know what I am supposed to be doing so I will take heed to what you are saying.,,,however,,,am I not suppose to be open and honest with my feelings? Should I hide them from him? I know I am running amock with pain and grief right now but today is a better day so maybe sharing all this on this forum is helping me process it. I will work on all of these suggestions,,,I will.

[jwi71]

Now do I ask him those questions or were they strickly for me?

 

Up to you. Asking your H may help the both you understand the M, what each gets from it and how each perceives the other. Expect some disconnect and go into the conversation (if you have) completely naked. This is the time for honesty - even if it hurts.

 

What are the hard questions? I want them,,,I want to fix me and my part in the M.

Here's an easy hard one:

 

1) Why did you marry your H? And be specific - details.

 

I will try,,,I will do it,,,I will give all I have to focusing on today,,,I am just grieving so deeply and I don't want to stuff that down. I don't tell him all the things I write on this forum. I do call my friends,,I am doing what I can and I agree I need to stay in today and the future but I dont know how to do that until I grieve the loss of what was and isn't and what happened. I will work in this. I thank you for your honesty,,,I do want to know the questions and I do want to heal. I am lost and don't really know what I am supposed to be doing so I will take heed to what you are saying.,,,however,,,am I not suppose to be open and honest with my feelings? Should I hide them from him? I know I am running amock with pain and grief right now but today is a better day so maybe sharing all this on this forum is helping me process it. I will work on all of these suggestions,,,I will.

Work through your grief in a healthy manner (don't start going to bars or something patently stupid). But I caution you against only focusing on the pain. It tends to be self-perpetuating and, uh, pain just isn't a way to live.

 

You have repeatedly said you want to work on the M. OK. So if your MC approves, I would suggest the following:

 

Limit long hard emotionally draining talks to 90 minutes. Set a timer if you must (we did). Those 4 hour marathon deep emotional talks are so draining. They really aren't helpful after an hour or so anyways - so limit them.

 

Have those talks three times per week. You initiate one and your H does too - the other is scheduled. There must be a one day break in between.

 

Date. Pick one activity and do it together. Have lunch. Walk in the park. Jazzercise. Whatever. You must date each other. And NO heavy emotional talking crap. Just date.

 

Is there some hobby or activity you gave up for whatever reason? Get back into it. For instance, I gave up flying. I love to fly. Gave it up for 1000 practical reasons. Well, I'm back to it again and I suddenly cant stop smiling as I type.

[itspersonal]

Thank you,,,,I will write on that question and I will ask the MC about the timing part when we go on Sunday. He is there now,,,,I do have trouble with the fact that she has told us to stop throwing darts and start telling each other the positive things we see in each other. I am doing my part but he doesn't tell me anything positive,,,it is very hard not to ask him why but I haven't yet. I did ask him to consider that i may need some positive reinforcement now also. He didn't say much. I think sometimes he is on a power trip. He knows I want the marriage to work so doesn't extend like I do but that is a whole other post. I won't ask him for anything right now except what the mc suggests that way I don't get angry because my hurt takes me there. I don't like the feeling I have that he won't say those sweet things like Oh you smell good or I love your cooking or something,,,it doesn't even have to be deep just thoughtful,,,something you might say to any person who is there for you,,,,I am not sure about the power trip thing but I don't know,,I feel it.

 

Will keep focusing,,,

[jwi71]

I do have trouble with the fact that she has told us to stop throwing darts and start telling each other the positive things we see in each other.

 

Why do you find this difficult?

 

I am doing my part but he doesn't tell me anything positive,,,it is very hard not to ask him why but I haven't yet

 

Why do you find it hard? One way to stop wondering about the answer to a question you haven't asked is.....actually ask the question.

I promise the anxiety over the fear of his answer is far worse than any answer he could give.

 

I did ask him to consider that i may need some positive reinforcement now also. He didn't say much. I think sometimes he is on a power trip He knows I want the marriage to work so doesn't extend like I do but that is a whole other post. I won't ask him for anything right now except what the mc suggests that way I don't get angry because my hurt takes me there

 

Maybe ask your MC on how the two of you can improve communication. There are some serious lapses going on here between you two. And its gotta stop. One thing you might try is to summarize your H's points during conversation.

 

He might say "The sky is blue so it cannot be raining".

You reply: "I understand that you think it isnt raining because the sky is blue."

 

End all conversations -especially the "bad" ones- with "Thank you for sharing your feelings with me. I appreciate talking to you".

 

. I don't like the feeling I have that he won't say those sweet things like Oh you smell good or I love your cooking or something,,,it doesn't even have to be deep just thoughtful,,,something you might say to any person who is there for you,,,,I am not sure about the power trip thing but I don't know,,I feel it.

 

Will keep focusing,,,

 

This is where the self-righteous anger kicks in.

"Why must I say nice things, be nice to him when HE screwed it all up".

I get it. I understand it. I DID IT TOO. It didn't work for me. In fact, in our MC, I am beginning to understand the damage I did with those thoughts and some of the stabbing (your dart throwing). Dammit. I wish I hadn't done and said those things. Now I have to undo it. And now I, the BS, must prove worthy to the WS. How's that for irony?

 

And I gladly do it. Because I broke it. Those thoughts, that thinking, that anger will do you NO good.

 

Just drop it like a heavy weight. Put it down and walk away. Trust me on that.

 

Be open, be honest and take that risk. Just as negativity and pain breed upon themselves - so does positive words and actions. Try it.

 

Keep posting...plenty of us are working and thinking to help YOU through this.

[itspersonal]

I feel awfully confused. Hubby goes to counseling and when he comes out every time he is nasty to me. I called to tell him about the poor little Caylee girl being found and dna tests and he calls me back and says "what do you want to know" In a really nasty voice,,,He then said whats wrong just say it,,I told him nothing was wrong except for the fact that he just jumped down my throat and he made an excuse about his boss calling. Then he kept trying to start a fight,,,saying whats wrong just fing talk to me and I told him again nothing was wrong. He then proceeded to loudly state "what is it gonna take to please you anyway". I wanted to just tell him to go to hell but I didn't I calmly asked him if he was alright and that he was obviously angry at me and that was ok but not ok for him to get nasty. He then said he wasn't being nasty and what the hell is wrong with me. I am fed up with this behavior. I called the counselor and left her a message point blank.. Why is it that every time he comes out of your office we go from him being close to me to him being abusive and angry and how does SHE want me to deal with that. I haven't heard back but it is not ok with me that this keeps happening. We were so close last night and this morning and now he is mean and nasty. I didn't bite,,,I didn't get mean but then he says whats wrong whats wrong just tell me dammit,,,nothing was wrong except his attitude. What is up with that and I don't know if anyone else has gone through this. Help!

[itspersonal]

ok so I am putting down the heavy weight,,dropping it. I don't want to fight anymore,,I want to hear him and know how to get along. I know if this keeps up it is just a matter of time before one of us says "that's it". I am so sad by this reality. I spoke to the MC and she said that maybe we shouldn't be in individual counseling with her and just do together because it seems that misinterpretation is going on,. He said , she said. We are going to discuss this on Sunday together. I wonder if that is a cop out. She sad that nothing negative about me was spoken by him so she is concerned that he seems to leave there more angry at me then going in each time. I don't know what to think. Should we see different counselors? Is it wrong to use the MC as a individual counselor also? I just don't get all this. I am going to do my best not to wear his feelings,,,we communicated so well last night or so I thought and we felt so close and then wham no communication and anger steps in. I printed your last post and I am going to try to apply it here. Thank you

[RobertLS]

This reminds me of our first encounters with counseling. I remember several times feeling good about things, going to a counseling session, and then coming out feeling lousy, hopeless, yucky again. I don't really know why that happened, but I thought I'd mention to you just so you know that you're not the only one. The only thing I can think of (and the more I learn of your situation, the more your husband and I seem alike) is that possibly your husband has been closed up for so long that he's not comfortable opening himself up, even to the counselor. It takes him out of his emotional comfort zone, and he reacts defensively by being rude to you. I'm not a professional counselor though, so I don't know, but this may be what's happening. He's no doubt just as confused by all this as you are, and doesn't really know which way is up.

 

The part you wrote earlier about your counselor saying that your husband is not responsible for your feelings, that's tough to swallow, isn't it? I know what the counselor is saying, but still, if your husband hadn't done what he did, you wouldn't be having the feelings you're having, so in some way, he IS responsible for your feelings; he did something that caused you to feel the way you feel. Your feelings are completely normal. Your reaction is normal. It's not very easy to simply shut those feelings and reactions down, unless you're an extremely strong-willed person. I don't know, that's a really tough call. I know what your counselor means, but it's not easy to accept.

 

Also, your descriptions of your husband feeling responsible for other people's feelings, his resentments for your misunderstanding of him due to his inability to express himself to you, and your thinking things were ok when they really weren't, all remind me of my wife and I. So much similarity.

 

There was some interchange between you and jwi71 about the grieving process, whether to continue lamenting over what has been lost or to try to put the past behind you and move forward. That's a tough one, and I suppose the answer is different for different people. Personally, I think you have to go through the grieving process and let it rip you apart until you're ready to heal and move forward. My feeling is that if you try to ignore it, it'll crop up in some other area of your life. If you bury it instead of facing it, it'll come back later in another form. But others may be strong enough to simply quash the grief and stamp it out completely. I don't know for sure, but for me, it seems better to let the grieving process run its course.

 

jwi71 also mentioned some rules of engagement, like limiting the amount of time you spend talking about relationship issues with your husband. I heartily agree. Until our counselor suggested that to us, we'd be up half the night, or more, going over and over things, getting totally worn out. It was really draining, and I think counter-productive. I would do as jwi71 said and establish some time limits. Also, another piece of advice we got from our counselor was no heavy talks after 10pm, or whatever your bedtime is. Night time is for sleeping, and you definitely need sleep.

 

Well, I gotta hit the road and get home. You just started posting on this forum this week, right? You'll probably see that things slow down here over the weekend. And with Christmas next week, and people taking vacations and stuff, don't be surprised if you don't get as many responses as you have so far. But keep posting, if for no other reason than to help clarify your thoughts. Good luck with everything!

 

p.s., I saw your request for my wife's name. I don't think she'd mind, but I want to double-check with her first before posting on a public forum.

[jwi71]

I feel awfully confused. Hubby goes to counseling and when he comes out every time he is nasty to me. I called to tell him about the poor little Caylee girl being found and dna tests and he calls me back and says "what do you want to know" In a really nasty voice,,,He then said whats wrong just say it,,I told him nothing was wrong except for the fact that he just jumped down my throat and he made an excuse about his boss calling. Then he kept trying to start a fight,,,saying whats wrong just fing talk to me and I told him again nothing was wrong. He then proceeded to loudly state "what is it gonna take to please you anyway". I wanted to just tell him to go to hell but I didn't I calmly asked him if he was alright and that he was obviously angry at me and that was ok but not ok for him to get nasty. He then said he wasn't being nasty and what the hell is wrong with me. I am fed up with this behavior. I called the counselor and left her a message point blank.. Why is it that every time he comes out of your office we go from him being close to me to him being abusive and angry and how does SHE want me to deal with that. I haven't heard back but it is not ok with me that this keeps happening. We were so close last night and this morning and now he is mean and nasty. I didn't bite,,,I didn't get mean but then he says whats wrong whats wrong just tell me dammit,,,nothing was wrong except his attitude. What is up with that and I don't know if anyone else has gone through this. Help!

 

That happens to us too - I bet most go through that "come back from MC and angry" routine. For me, it was because we were talking about negative aspects. Sometimes even positive aspect of our M and the A.

 

I think it is simply pain and anger at examining a sore wound. It hurts, its raw, its about him and you and everything and those emotions just carry over.

 

Give it some time. As you both individually and jointly learn to communicate those episodes will fade. They did for us anyway. Give it some time and allow him HIS ANGER.

[jwi71]

ok so I am putting down the heavy weight,,dropping it. I don't want to fight anymore,,I want to hear him and know how to get along. I know if this keeps up it is just a matter of time before one of us says "that's it". I am so sad by this reality. I spoke to the MC and she said that maybe we shouldn't be in individual counseling with her and just do together because it seems that misinterpretation is going on,. He said , she said. We are going to discuss this on Sunday together. I wonder if that is a cop out. She sad that nothing negative about me was spoken by him so she is concerned that he seems to leave there more angry at me then going in each time. I don't know what to think. Should we see different counselors? Is it wrong to use the MC as a individual counselor also? I just don't get all this. I am going to do my best not to wear his feelings,,,we communicated so well last night or so I thought and we felt so close and then wham no communication and anger steps in. I printed your last post and I am going to try to apply it here. Thank you

 

The IC sessions you refer to are not IC. They are MC sessions. Your MC is separating you two to remove the influence of the other. To allow each to speak openly, honestly and securely (the MC will NEVER repeat to the spouse what is said in private). He or she is guaging each of you and then comparing notes. Learning you both. Painting a complete picture of you two and the marriage. One determination a MC must make is, in his/her professional opinion, that the M CAN be saved. Some or hopelessly lost.

And engaging each partner separately is simply one way of doing that.

 

Those IC sesssions are simply time for each to speak w/o the other presesnt. And considering how you two are communicating, the go between MC may not be a bad idea. I know, we were there too.

 

Keep it up. Stay strong.

 

Did you ever think of why you married him?

[itspersonal]

I have been writing all the reasons why I married my husband and there are many. One thing my h said to me yesterday was that "she is seeing us at our worst and there are a lot of wonderful things to draw from" He also said "this issue is one (feeling responsible to everything and everyone and the stress of that)I have felt all my life and you did not create nor can you fix it. He told me he loved me and even though he doesn't want to plan past today, he does see our future,,,its just that getting through today is enough for him ,,,his self esteem is low and he is sad and overwhelmed by his actions and the effect they have had on his family. Strange to me that he is feeling like I do and I thought he was just loving the power and the sex he got,,,,I didn't realize the pain this caused him,,,it is almost hard to believe but I do. He told me the sex was an act period end of story and if we split up today he would NEVER be with her,,he said he thought she was really something but looking back he doesn't know why...he got caught up in the excitement. He said that he is staying in today as a mechanism of coping but that as long as I am willing, he is there,,,working it out and doing what it takes to heal this. That was a great thing for him to say to me. We actually planned a Sat. DAY and NIGHT of each other and we courted all day, worked together to accomplish a goal (painting fixing and decorating my little girls room on the sly for Christmas gift) and we went to a nice dinner, relaxed ,,,didn't talk about the A and OW and we ended making love. It was very healing for me to say the least,,,since then we seem more connected. All along we have slept in each others arms but this was so much more then that. He is coming back,,,he is feeling ME again. I thank God and hope it continues on a daily basis. He said that he still doesn't know why it happened and he wants to figure it out because it goes against what he believes to be right and decent in him. He says he does know it wasn't "ME" but a breakdown in "HIS" communication with me because he decided that I wasn't listening not that I wasn't. He also said he felt that life was passing him by and he wasn't getting a lot of joy but then stated that the joy he has gotten came from me and his children,,,that is all he has ever loved. He has had trouble being happy his whole life ,,,he was very abused by his mother and grandmother and he has had a lot of anger that he never dealt with. Hence he said I am gettting the affects of that which wasn't fair to me. He did say that I have issues to work on like active listening and communication skills in the defensiveness area that frustrate him but nothing to deserve his choice in this. It was such a productive weekend. I am still horrified and saddened by what has happened here but I am doing as you suggested and looking forward into the future and trying to leave the past where it belongs...we talked for hours and hours. I am still reeling from the fact that this happened but I am feeling more centered and in control of my emotions every day. Some of it is denial and some of it is forgiveness mixed with a realization that I cannot change what was but I can change what is. I will see how I feel tomorrow...this is 8 weeks out and I finally feel like I can breath without pain today.;

Merry Christmas to you all and wishes for continued healing ,,,,,,,,,,'PS: making love was the single most connected feeling I have had since the A. He said he had no desire and yet now it has resparked him ,,,the counselor told him to do what he did even if he "didn't feel desire" to try to reconnect physically and emotionally and to stop putting it off for a perfect feeling,,, and it worked for him also. I missed us so much and now I feel a little more like US again. Thank you all.

[RobertLS]

...this is 8 weeks out and I finally feel like I can breath without pain today.

 

Well that's really good to hear!! I'm glad things have picked up for you, even if just a little. But just remember the rollercoaster ride. If it's like what my wife and I experienced, you're still in for some more ups and downs.

 

My wife didn't feel comfortable posting her name on this forum. She did register though, and may post to your thread. We went over your thread again over the weekend and she felt so much connection with you and the similarity of feelings. She's planning a trip to Tucson in Feb/March, and she said if you lived anywhere nere there, it would have to be fate and she'd find a way to get in touch with you.

 

Again, I'm happy you got a little spark back, and I hope things'll continue to improve, bit by bit.

[itspersonal]

I am about 1 1/2 hours from Tucson and I would love to meet her. I will def. drive there to do that! I am so excited about this,,,to have someone who relates and understands what is happening. Please keep me informed,,,I have no doubt I will go through many ups and downs,,,I am not looking forward to it but I am just glad for today I feel good!

 

Thank you and I will post more tomorrow!

[jwi71]

Parroting RobertLS - there will be ups and downs. You will make progress then seemingly lose it all. Its a wild ride!

 

Its a funny thing isn't it and counter intuitive that choosing to "forget" the A heals. Keep at those days. Every couple needs them especially those in crisis. Do it each week. Make the time. It can be as simple as a burger at the local burger joint - but do it.

 

Ditto on the sex. Right after my wife's' A I had the whole "possession sex" phase. Then for several weeks maybe even close to two months I had zero desire for her. I basically forced myself to have sex with her (it was becoming a point of contention). Awkward at first and now that I have mostly lost all those horrible mental images - its great again. And sex tends to perpetuate itself - kinda like those date days. So, focus on the good.

 

And yes, do have "those" deep talks. Do limit them to 90 minutes. Set a timer. Its far too easy now to get lost and sucked into the darkness and negative aspects of it all.

 

I am glad you thought on why you married your H. Its good to remember.

 

Homework: Ask your H why he married you. (Give him some time to formulate a response - you had plenty of time an no angry spouse staring at you - talk about pressure!)

 

Homework assignment part two: Can you think of something he would like for Christmas but hasn't asked?

 

I want you two focusing on today and healing.

Can you change the past? Can you undo what has been done? Will any negative or vengeful actions and words mitigate that pain and hurt?

So focus on today and healing.

 

EDIT - left out a few words which radically altered what I was trying to say. Oops.

[child_of_isis]

it'spersonal: I really related to the emotional aspect, (major flashbacks while reading this thread) but I want to give another perspective because it seems that the focus coming from others is about surviving the affair.

 

I went thru this same thing in my world. And it wasn't an affair, but MLC.

 

It was like waking up with a total stranger. I didn't know him. He didn't act the same. He didn't think the same. He was angry. There was little doubt that he despised me. He turned inside out.

 

And I became the enemy.

 

Long story short...it was that aspect that made me break it off. I could be a lot of things, but 'the enemy' wasn't one of them. Not after I had been his best friend for so long.

 

This is a heart wrenching thing that you are going through. And I'm sorry. Really I am.

[itspersonal]

Boy do I understand the ups and downs now. Christmas is here and I am on this site,,,what does that say? I am feeling hurt and weird. Really like that rush in the pit of my stomach that I had in the beginning. I feel betrayed and confused. Half of this year he was with someone else and here we all are as a family celebrating Christmas. I feel angry too but I am putting it all aside,,,I went into the bathroom and cried for a while but that was it,,I am fighting this feeling. Sometimes I wonder if everyone is right,,,I will not be able to overcome this and I will shut down my feelings to the point of no return,,that is why the sexual/passion connection is so important to me,,,it keeps me connected so this doesn't happen,,,,God I hope I can forgive this,,,I really am not sure day to day,,one day ,,yes I know I can move forward,,next day,,,not to sure but when we connect passionately then I find that feeling again! It was an amazing morning so I am not sure where this is coming from but the grief is back,,,not full force but back nontheless. How could this all be? Is this an illusion,,this happy family? I can't seem to get past it today,,,maybe tomorrow will be better. I feel so powerless over the mood swings but I am going to control it today,,,it is a special day! My whole life seems like a fake.....I love him but I feel so sad and disappointed that he did this. It is Christmas and I am alone inside. Why today,,,why do I feel so upset that he did this today? I have been coasting for a few days but today I asked if she contacted him???? I haven't asked that question for a while,,,,I don't know why this is coming up today! I will just put one foot in front of the other and act as if until this feeling goes away. How could he do such a hurtful thing to us? I don't get it! I guess there will be bad days and worse days and I just hope and wait for more good days! It is better then in the beginning but the anxiety and rush in my body is strong. Is my life a fake? Is it real? I don't know today! I did get 48 reasons why I married him and he had 39 for me and he said he wrote it fast and furious and there was more then that! Where are those good things right now when I need to feel them,,he has been so wonderful but I just am not feeling it or feeling right. I don't know how to express it,,,,anyone else go through this first Christmas so close to the A. I am so sorry to hear that MLC ruined a marriage,,,it is strange isn't it,,,how this can happen to a seemly good relationship and friendship. The counselor saying he has no responsibility for my feelings is hard to swallow,,,I think it is a cop out. He did this deed and now doesn't have to accept what that deed has done to another person he "loves" its like saying if I abuse and beat my kids I am not responsible for how they feel about it or how it has affected them? I dont get that,,,,new age stuff if you ask me,,,cop out! I don't care really who is resonsible, I would just like it to go away! Grieving is rough isn't it! I hope all of you are having a good xmas and I thank you every day for your support and concern and for answering me and helping me. I see things so much healthier after I hear from one of you wonderful spirits,,,

[child_of_isis]

I think the 'illusion' part was the hardest thing for me to deal with. Was it all a lie?

 

How could it have not been? But how could a person lie for so many years? How could it have been a lie when I lived it also? Did I help create the illusion & propagate the lie?

 

It is like being a cracking mirror.

 

We have been split for 1 1/2 years, and while I am happy with where I am.....I look back & still don't understand. I see him from time to time & whoever he used to be...is still gone. I don't know if he will ever be back.

 

Or even if he ever existed outside of my own mind. He may never have existed. Maybe my mind made him into something he wasn't...ever. I just couldn't, or wouldn't, allow myself to see him for who he truly was.

 

See how it works? I pretty much remain confused about my past. And that is not an easy thing to handle. Because you start wondering about other things. What else wasn't true? What else was I blinded to? What other illusions have I created?

Or maybe it is like being an onion. You peel off layer after painful layer until you get to the very core of what is true.

 

And then you still wonder.

 

My heart is with you. Maybe I didn't go thru the affair aspect. But it was still betrayal. Whether he betrayed me or I betrayed myself...I'm not sure.

[heart's desire]

This is Robert LS's wife. It is my first time posting and I must say I never thought I would be doing this. I have read the last week or so of posts and really can connect with how itspersonal is feeling. I am sorry the great love making didn't solve your insecure feelings. I would love some sexual connections with my husband but that has not happened in 4 months and his emotional affair was 9 months ago! As a women who loves sex I'm really not sure how I have survived. In our case the affair was a symptom of other marital problems. I think this is normally the case as why would someone want/ need an affair if they were happy. Or as Paul Newman said, "why would I want hamburger when I have steak at home". In my husbands case the affair had the effect of making him extremely discontent with our relationship. Christmas was not really good. It was nice to have our two children home. We enjoyed our traditional breakfast casserole, opened gifts and enjoyed them and had a nice turkey dinner. My husband and I felt it was not a good Christmas because we keep thinking about it being the last. I also gave my husband a gift I shouldn't have at this time. To make a long story short... he lost his wedding ring 4 years ago (I actually lost it) and I had looked for years for one similar to replace it. His ring was an unusual bolt like shape and when I saw one just like it about a month before Christmas I felt it was a sign that I should buy it and give it to him as a symbol of "starting over". Anyway with the hopeless way he feels about our marriage he was not happy to receive this gift and I will be returning it in a week or so. This is really sad for me because I realize how much he wants out of the marriage. Yesterday was a miserable day for me, a lot of crying and feeling insecure. We ended up going over to our marriage class leaders home for two hours to talk. They were married and got divorced and then remarried each other and are now very happy! They told us they felt it would do us both good to go separately to a 2 week intense Christian workshop the husband went to in Chicago. The wife didn't do to this but met with women and did counseling that helped her look at problem areas in herself. Basically both worked on themselves! I would be willing to do this. What do others feel about this philosophy of working on yourself more than "working" on the marriage? We are both extremely sad things have gotten to this point and would really like for things to work out and be better than ever. In fact if things just go back to how they were before the affair, that is not acceptable. I feel we now have better communication and have learned a lot from this terrible crisis and that with some time we could rebuild our marriage. My husband is ready to move on. He has been talking more about how we don't have emotional chemistry and when he is around me he doesn't feel like himself and is not creative or motivated to do things. I wish this was all a bad dream and I would wake up to a happy, trustworthy husband making passionate love to me!

[itspersonal]

dear hearts desire,

 

My heart just ached so desperately for you when I read your pained and deeply emotional post. I wish I understood where your husband was coming from. When I go back and read his insightful posts, it seems to me that he feels so deeply for you and your marriage. I felt confused. It sounds to me like your heart has been ripped to shreds here! Our counselor told us that in order to recover from this tragic event and if we are really wanting to make it happen, to fake it till we make it,,,Meaning,,,make dates to make love,,,make space and time for deep and intimate touching that does not involve sex but to create the desire ,,,to reach out emotionally and share your inner self and to realize that loving someone else means loving yourself. I don't know what I would do if my husband couldnt regain passionate love for me. I am so sad and pained for you as I can hear how lucky he is to have a woman who loves him so deeply and who has remained there against all odds. Believing that something is worth "healing" and "healing it" are too different things aren't they. The betrayal of an affair is so much to bear and then to have him not able to heal ,,,well I get that feeling of being rejected and it is so painfully, deeply destructive to everything we are and believe ourselves to be,,,,loved...lovable! You are these things,,,I read them in your post,,,,I feel it in your words. We were told to not make any changes for at least a year and two would be a better choice...we have decided to give it that time,,,,to give it at least that much for all we have been to each other and for all the love and memories, I wish that for you!,,,I think that an emotinal affair does create discontent and even if it was a symptom of marital problems,,,every relationship has problems. I think that unless you live alone on an island or in a bubble, life with another is hard work and that willingness to heal must exist,,,a true willingness not just words but a decision is needed to make it happen. There are many things in life that I have wished were easier and that didn't take the utmost in love, forgiveness and willingness to get through but I never gave up. I hope that you and your hubby remember all the memories,,,good and bad are worthy of at the very least a few years of healing. The hardest thing we did was make the time to make the time if that makes sense. Making love has reconnected us in some deep and meaningful way and we have committed to continue that and our talks to make this happen. I am so so very sad for you that you are willing and that he is unable to open that emotional gateway for you both. I wish I could hug you and fix this for you. I know the horror of being betrayed but i dont know how you must feel knowing he isn't happy being back emotionally,,,My husband is back every day more and more and I know that either one of us could change our minds at any moment but I don't have to deal with that today,,today we are here for each other and we are loving each other,,,,we want (want being the key word) to make this happen and today we are doing whatever we can to make it happen. I want that for you so badly,,I feel your pain,,,,I hear your deep deep loss and I hope that your husband realizes the love you have to give,,,,and keeps trying to open back up that gateway for you both. Please take care of yourself and know that even though I feel pain,,I feel your pain also,,,,Please take care of yourself and I feel so honored that my posts spoke to you and that you reached out to me and this website. You are so deserving of joy and love. I hope that you both turn a corner before it is too late and heal this painful situation,,,hugs