Avoidant Personality Disorder

[Trialbyfire]

amaysn, everyone has choice in what they take. What's the upside and what's the downside? If you get maximum effectiveness with a drug, whereby you have this slow withdrawal process, isn't it worth it?

 

There are so many drugs out there with side effects. Even your standard penicillin has side-effects. I'm allergic to it so get huge hives from it. This allergy suddenly appeared when I turned 30. Does this mean that just because a small percentage of the population is allergic to it, they should stop producing it?

 

It's very much a cost/benefit analysis. That's why multiple opinions from professionals should be part of a person's due diligence, if something this powerful were prescribed. Blind trust in anything or anybody, isn't a good idea. Denial is also not a good idea. If you need it, you need it.

 

There's a real balance that people seriously should consider. Blanketing all doctors/therapists/meds as bad, is wrong.

[amaysngrace]

Well you have to wonder if you are going off of them and are in great distress wouldn't it just be better to take the medicine and stay on them?

 

And you'd have to wonder too if it was such a modern day miracle then why did anybody ever think to go off of them in the first place?

[Trialbyfire]

http://www.crisiscounseling.com/Articles/GettingOffMedications.htm

 

Here's a interesting article about one person's experience to get off Effexor. This person took the harsh way by dropping 50% dosages per each reduction, and not working in conjunction with a doctor. Crazy stuff.

 

This is the kind of pain-filled journey someone would have, if they stubbornly insist on doing it their own way. This is also the type of article that would scare the pants off people, in its sensationalism.

 

Not everyone experiences this type of withdrawal with Effexor. Most definitely, not everyone uses this withdrawal methodology. The only reason this person weaned themselves off, is concern over missing a pill. Once again, crazy stuff.

[Nemo]

I wish I could avoid my personality.

[carhill]

Not everyone experiences this type of withdrawal with Effexor.

 

Absolutely true. As I often say, when you've seen one patient, you've seen one patient

 

This reality is why it's so critical to have a competent professional in charge of treatment. The brain is a pretty important organ.

[Trialbyfire]

Absolutely true. As I often say, when you've seen one patient, you've seen one patient

 

This reality is why it's so critical to have a competent professional in charge of treatment. The brain is a pretty important organ.

I couldn't agree more.

 

When people react violently to non-personal information given, you have to wonder at the defensiveness displayed.

[Star Gazer]

Let me reprhase:

What if what someone needs isn't so much to go see a counsellor as to take a vacation? To spend time with family and friends? To work on something completely different? To start practicing karate? Are you then going to tell that person they're in denial and avoiding their problems?

 

Honestly, I'd say yes. The latter activities are escapist and avoidant. Therapy focuses on reality.

[Trialbyfire]

Honestly, I'd say yes. The latter activities are escapist and avoidant. Therapy focuses on reality.

If you have a good therapist, they don't let you get away with the b/s. Mine was to the point and challenged my perception on issues.

[Taramere]

At the time when the entire NPD thing came up through reading about it on LS and the ex, I also asked my therapist if I had it. She laughed and said no way.

 

We discussed disorders in general. She's one that believes in disorders as a way to understand grouped individuals and treatment types that work best for these groupings of issues, keeping in mind the individual traits.

 

From what you've said she gave you a clean bill of emotional health, and that left you with a sense of relief that you were okay. Which on the face of it is a very good thing. Who doesn't want to be told "you're rational. You're not disordered..."? Especially if you've started to question yourself as a result of a difficult situation or relationship.

 

It's good to be told "you're okay", but it doesn't automatically follow that if you're okay then people you come into conflict with aren't okay. I think that's the bit that's resulting in some irritation about you starting these threads about personality disorders. Here's the information I take from your posts about this:

 

a) "I'm not a professional. I'm not equipped to make a professional diagnosis, however....

b) I suspected that my ex husband suffered from Narcissistic Personality Disorder, and as it turns out I was right

c) I have examined my own emotional health with the aid of a therapist, and I'm okay. I'm okay, my ex husband is not okay."

 

I think you take this into your conflicts with people on the board. ie that you're okay and they're not. When they react in an angry or emotional manner, that's unthreatening to you. More than that, you probably quite like it on the basis that others might think "well, look how heated she's getting and how coolly TBF is responding. TBF maybe has a point. Perhaps she's not okay". Particularly if the person you're having conflict with is someone who has made themselves vulnerable by admitting on this board to specific weaknesses, mistakes or having been subjected to abuse in childhood.

 

You meshed well with your therapist, but did she challenge you? If she were posting on this board, how do you think she would assess your conduct on it? Is it possible that she would say "okay TBF. You're not nuts, but that doesn't mean everyone you come into conflict with has something wrong with them."?

 

I don't think she would. My guess is that as someone who is well versed in sussing people out, she would know instinctively that it's incredibly difficult for you to be challenged in the cool, clinical manner you use to challenge others. And presumably you paid her for the sessions you had with her. She came highly recommended, but what makes a good therapist? Happy clients?

 

 

If you have a good therapist, they don't let you get away with the b/s. Mine was to the point and challenged my perception on issues.

 

If she was that good a therapist, why hasn't she seriously challenged you for this "I'm okay, you're not okay" stance? Or do you only take it here, on a board populated by people who admit to all kinds of weakness?

[amaysngrace]

This is the kind of pain-filled journey someone would have, if they stubbornly insist on doing it their own way. This is also the type of article that would scare the pants off people, in its sensationalism.

 

But Carhills wife weaned off slowly and she still felt pain.

 

I'm not saying they throw something in there to make pain happen but it seriously would not surprise me.

 

Then of course they pay millions to advertise on TV asking everyone watching if they have symptoms of depression. That definitely furthers their cause.

[Trialbyfire]

But Carhills wife weaned off slowly and she still felt pain.

 

I'm not saying they throw something in there to make pain happen but it seriously would not surprise me.

 

Then of course they pay millions to advertise on TV asking everyone watching if they have symptoms of depression. That definitely furthers their cause.

Did you read that article I posted? It had some very good content about why withdrawing from Effexor might be painful. It described serotonin (sp) levels, how Effexor impacts on it, how the body reacts to it and what happens when you withdraw from it.

[Trialbyfire]

Taramere, a good therapist is one who does challenge your perceptions. They remain unbiased from personal likes and dislikes of individuals and their actions. They also have a lot of field experience, decades of it, so they've been exposed to a lot of individuals, disorders and mental illnesses. They also don't enable people, instead helping them with their coping tools.

 

Therapists who solely utilize their skills for the purposes of self-interest, wouldn't be giving people clean bills of emotional health since they stand to profit from retaining a patient.

 

That's my layman's take.

[Ross PK]

I wish I could avoid my personality.

 

What don't you like about it?

[Trialbyfire]

What don't you like about it?

I could be wrong but Nemo's rarely serious.

[Ross PK]

Oh and thanks, Ross. I don't remember what we sparred about either.

 

Yes, stick around. I want to see your progress. And you don't have to hope..you WILL get better. That's great about the car and driving. That's a huge step! You should be proud. Bet you never thought you could do that, right?

 

I guess maybe I could use the journal feature as I make progress and come across difficulties, and people could post advice/opinions. Not sure how many people would see it though.

 

Yeah, you know I really couldn't see myself passing the theory and the driving test first time, when the examiner said I'd passed, I was really surprised.

 

To be honest this is basically the first thing in my life that I've ever managed to stick through. Even sometimes now I look back and think 'Wow, I did it'.

[Taramere]

Taramere, a good therapist is one who does challenge your perceptions. They remain unbiased from personal likes and dislikes of individuals and their actions. They also have a lot of field experience, decades of it, so they've been exposed to a lot of individuals, disorders and mental illnesses. They also don't enable people, instead helping them with their coping tools.

 

Therapists who solely utilize their skills for the purposes of self-interest, wouldn't be giving people clean bills of emotional health since they stand to profit from retaining a patient.

 

That's my layman's take.

 

No, you're right. People wouldn't trust them.

 

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that I'm not sure how someone would go about challenging you in a really direct way, without you mistrusting their motives.

 

Naturally I'm not going to ask you about the things she challenged you on, but I'm curious to know how your therapist approached the issue of challenging you on certain perceptions without it wrecking the therapist/client relationship.

 

I take your point that because she was in a professional capacity you trusted her motives in challenging you, and her ability to detach herself from personal issues in doing so. How do you think you'd have responded to those challenges if she hadn't been a professional making them in a therapeutic setting?

[Trialbyfire]

No, you're right. People wouldn't trust them.

 

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that I'm not sure how someone would go about challenging you in a really direct way, without you mistrusting their motives.

 

Naturally I'm not going to ask you about the things she challenged you on, but I'm curious to know how your therapist approached the issue of challenging you on certain perceptions without it wrecking the therapist/client relationship.

 

I take your point that because she was in a professional capacity you trusted her motives in challenging you, and her ability to detach herself from personal issues in doing so. How do you think you'd have responded to those challenges if she hadn't been a professional making them in a therapeutic setting?

I'm going to ask you straight up. Are you challenging my perspectives from a solely unbiased, detached approach or do you have some personal dislike associated with your challenge?

[Taramere]

I'm going to ask you straight up. Are you challenging my perspectives from a solely unbiased, detached approach or do you have some personal dislike associated with your challenge?

 

I'm not entirely sure. Certainly there's been conflict between us in the past, but the fact that I have conflict with people doesn't mean I dislike them. It just means that certain aspects of their behaviour annoy me, just as certain aspects of mine annoy them. I could say the same about pretty much anyone.

 

I do find it more difficult to resolve conflict with you, than I've found it with other people on the board. I honestly don't know if that's down to a personality clash, or whether you take the stance that once you've had conflict with someone you never really trust them again.

 

I suppose that I'm challenging your perspectives from a combination of approaches. Personal - yes. But not personal as in personal dislike of you, despite the conflict. It's more personal in that I feel people often really expose their raw areas on this board. Abusive childhoods etc, and I feel we have to be really careful how we handle that info.

 

It's easy for people in that situation to be left feeling deep down that they're "not okay". To have a fear that any mistake they make, or imperfection they have, is a sign of them being disordered, dysfunctional or just nuts.

 

Then, from the more detached aspect....conflict resolution's one of my interests. There's been the odd occasion on which I've found it very difficult to resolve conflict with you. So for that reason, I was interested to know how your therapist went about that.

 

As you say, a good therapist is a highly trained individual. I think some of the skills they learn can be acquired and transferred to other professional areas. Conflict resolution being one of them.

[Trialbyfire]

Yes Taramere, we have had conflict in the past, which is why I question your challenge. Since we're being honest here, I think we're both competitive individuals, neither more or less than the other. My attitude about you right now is that you're another member on the board who has something to give the board, as do I, but both from different perspectives. I've resolved my annoyance with your past methodologies. I don't dislike you but I do see you as human, like I'm human, and fallible.

 

I've let bygones be bygones. Can you?

[Taramere]

Yes Taramere, we have had conflict in the past, which is why I question your challenge. Since we're being honest here, I think we're both competitive individuals, neither more or less than the other. My attitude about you right now is that you're another member on the board who has something to give the board, as do I, but both from different perspectives. I've resolved my annoyance with your past methodologies. I don't dislike you but I do see you as human, like I'm human, and fallible.

 

I've let bygones be bygones. Can you?

 

Yes, and thanks for the post.

[Kamille]

TBF, your very reaction to my question, to Touche and to Taramere suggests you're not letting bygones be bygones. All of us were discussing ideas, yet you reacted like we were attacking you.

 

Stargazer, thank you for adressing my question. I'm going to ponder more about the subjec of denial and reality and get back to you.

[Trialbyfire]

Yes, and thanks for the post.

You're welcome. It sincerely was my pleasure.

[shadowplay]

Yes Taramere, we have had conflict in the past, which is why I question your challenge. Since we're being honest here, I think we're both competitive individuals, neither more or less than the other. My attitude about you right now is that you're another member on the board who has something to give the board, as do I, but both from different perspectives. I've resolved my annoyance with your past methodologies. I don't dislike you but I do see you as human, like I'm human, and fallible.

 

I've let bygones be bygones. Can you?

 

I find it troubling that you're shutting down her down by immediately dismissing her opinion as a personal gripe. Isn't it possible that she has both a personal bias and there's also some truth to her observations? I agree with her that you seem to have difficulty owning up to your own personal shortcomings despite your tendency to dissect the problems of others.

 

I'll admit upfront that I have personal bias, as I've been irritated by some of your past posts on the board, though I don't hate you by any means. But doesn't it make sense to have an irritated reaction to somebody whose personal conduct you disagree with, especially when you detect some whiff of hypocrisy?

 

Many people on this board own up to their problems, which is why they're able to embark on a path of change. But you seem especially inflexible to doing this.

 

I guess I'm asking you -- are you aware that you have difficulty taking criticism, and this is something you might want to work on as an individual in the same spirit of self-improvement you advocate for others?

[Trialbyfire]

shadowplay, you harbour resentment like it's your first born, internalizing everything everyone says. Just let it go. I have. I also ask if you can. If not, that's okay too. Your choice.

[shadowplay]

shadowplay, you harbour resentment like it's your first born, internalizing everything everyone says. Just let it go. I have. I also ask if you can. If not, that's okay too. Your choice.

 

Again, you delegitimize the criticism as totally biased without entertaining the possibility that there might be a grain of truth.