Christmas - ! Appropriate Gifts

[Sandy223]

Hi everyone --- don't know why I am doing this, but I feel the need to tell you the input from my therapist ...

 

he said I was being ridiculous, and just pinning everything on this gift as a way to come up with an easy answer to get out of the torture situation I put myself in ...

 

bottom line is -- it is true ... everything does come before me now ... and it's absolutely no reflection of how he feels about me or what he is/is not planning to do ...

 

he "reminded" me, that I too was doing this to explore him ... that I had other things going on, and to pin everything on christmas was unfair to him ... b/c ... I know what I am getting into ... and, the idea was for me to do this for a couple of months or so with the MM .. and, as long as I am doing it ... and made the choice to do it, I should throw caution to the wind for the next couple of months, and at least do it right ... do not expect anything, and really just get to know him and see how I feel when I am with him so that I can decide if this is something I would want ... regardless of what he does. ....

 

... he told me I might want to rethink my intention of letting him go right now .. given, that my initial intention was to test this out too ... and that I was putting ridiculous paramaters on him and setting up ridiculous expecations given the situation ... that I should just chill out and enjoy it knowing full well that this is only for the next couple of months...

 

basically ... my biggest challenge will be sticking to my own time table ... but, as my doctor point out, I should not be worry about that now l.. we can cross that bridge when we come to it ... but, in the moment, you are just getting to know him and enjoying him ... so, he thought, I would be doing myself and him a disservice if I lost sight of that ... anyway .. sorry for the spelling mistakes!!!!

[bentnotbroken]

Hi everyone --- don't know why I am doing this, but I feel the need to tell you the input from my therapist ...

 

he said I was being ridiculous, and just pinning everything on this gift as a way to come up with an easy answer to get out of the torture situation I put myself in ...

 

bottom line is -- it is true ... everything does come before me now ... and it's absolutely no reflection of how he feels about me or what he is/is not planning to do ...

 

he "reminded" me, that I too was doing this to explore him ... that I had other things going on, and to pin everything on christmas was unfair to him ... b/c ... I know what I am getting into ... and, the idea was for me to do this for a couple of months or so with the MM .. and, as long as I am doing it ... and made the choice to do it, I should throw caution to the wind for the next couple of months, and at least do it right ... do not expect anything, and really just get to know him and see how I feel when I am with him so that I can decide if this is something I would want ... regardless of what he does. ....

 

... he told me I might want to rethink my intention of letting him go right now .. given, that my initial intention was to test this out too ... and that I was putting ridiculous paramaters on him and setting up ridiculous expecations given the situation ... that I should just chill out and enjoy it knowing full well that this is only for the next couple of months...

 

basically ... my biggest challenge will be sticking to my own time table ... but, as my doctor point out, I should not be worry about that now l.. we can cross that bridge when we come to it ... but, in the moment, you are just getting to know him and enjoying him ... so, he thought, I would be doing myself and him a disservice if I lost sight of that ... anyway .. sorry for the spelling mistakes!!!!

I am sorry, and this is only my honest opinion... your therapist is an idiot.

[torranceshipman]

I completely second bentnotbroken-your therapist really is an idiot. Sandy, you seemed to have seen the light and made a lot of sense in letting this guy go, because he has simply shown you over this Christmas period that he is not invested in you in the slightest, has disrespected you by giving you no time over Christmas (usually a time to be with the ones you love) and has no interest whatsoever in making the effort to get you a gift....he is a selfish waste of space and you have got to know him WELL ENOUGH for him to have shown you his true colors. You have SEEN ENOUGH! Your therapist has a screw loose if he/she wants you to set yourself up for this crap for another 2 months....

 

I saw walk away from the MM and do not look back and quite frankly, do the same with the therapist too.

[Npow10604]

However, from experience as being the OW for over 4 years, I am guessing that your MM did not surprise you with the X-mas gift you were hoping for (I am hoping that I am wrong!).

 

I was, and still am in a similar situation. If you do not explicitly tell him exactly what you want - he will likely not get it for you. My MM's thinking is that he is not the gift giving type of guy - he usually does not buy anything for his wife so he expects me to tolerate same. It is up to you to explain to him that his wife is legally bound to put up with his behavior - and you are not. Explain that if he wants you to remain in his life, he has to be more considerate and appreciative of you, go out of his way and buy you something nice!!!!!!!!

 

If he disappointed you and did not get anything for you, and if you decide to end it (you have every right to) be strong with your decision and do not look back. Believe me there will be others (married or hopefully not!!!) - there are plenty of fish........... it is much easier to make a clean break when you have not invested years into a relationship. When you meet the next guy, tell him from the beginning what your expectations are. Hope this helps. I am going on 5 years with my MM - I wish I could just walk away - let me know if you'd like to chat.

[whichwayisup]

I am sorry, and this is only my honest opinion... your therapist is an idiot.

Sorry, but I agree with this statement. Your T is doing MORE damage to you than you realize..Allowing you to get your hopes up, wait and hope that this guy will leave his wife and kids for you. He isn't going to and I would hate to you posting back here in 2-3 years saying that you're STILL waiting and hoping he's going to leave.

 

Your Therapist SHOULD be helping you see that it is wrong, that this situation is making you feel awful, that you deserve a man who will love only you, someone you don't have to share. Not stick around because you "love" him. This guy may care about you, but he isn't going to leave his family, change his whole life to be with you.

[frannie]

Hi everyone --- don't know why I am doing this, but I feel the need to tell you the input from my therapist ...

 

he said I was being ridiculous, and just pinning everything on this gift as a way to come up with an easy answer to get out of the torture situation I put myself in ...

 

bottom line is -- it is true ... everything does come before me now ... and it's absolutely no reflection of how he feels about me or what he is/is not planning to do ...

 

he "reminded" me, that I too was doing this to explore him ... that I had other things going on, and to pin everything on christmas was unfair to him ... b/c ... I know what I am getting into ... and, the idea was for me to do this for a couple of months or so with the MM .. and, as long as I am doing it ... and made the choice to do it, I should throw caution to the wind for the next couple of months, and at least do it right ... do not expect anything, and really just get to know him and see how I feel when I am with him so that I can decide if this is something I would want ... regardless of what he does. ....

 

... he told me I might want to rethink my intention of letting him go right now .. given, that my initial intention was to test this out too ... and that I was putting ridiculous paramaters on him and setting up ridiculous expecations given the situation ... that I should just chill out and enjoy it knowing full well that this is only for the next couple of months...

 

basically ... my biggest challenge will be sticking to my own time table ... but, as my doctor point out, I should not be worry about that now l.. we can cross that bridge when we come to it ... but, in the moment, you are just getting to know him and enjoying him ... so, he thought, I would be doing myself and him a disservice if I lost sight of that ... anyway .. sorry for the spelling mistakes!!!!

 

Well, since your therapist seems to have said a lot of the same things I've been saying, I'm going to agree with him

 

I think it's great that he's getting you to think through your motivations and decisions. Making everything contingient on the toss of a present was a way of avoiding making a real decision. I think that if you are going to decide he's not the man for you, and stick to it, then it has to be based on more than that. Only because if you made a choice based on what a MM can give an OW for Christmas, you can easily change your mind back again (that the present meant 'nothing') if your emotions change (if you miss him).

 

I think your therapist is right to encourage you to see this through and make the decision to end it because of something more indicative of the possibility of your having a future with him.

[Sandy223]

thanks Frannie - that was my therapist's only point ... he did encourage me not to do this at all ... but for some reason I just had to ... he really did tell me not to get involved with this MM at all ... that it was dangerous for me ... he reminded me the other day that I knew I was taking a risk that would end up bringing me a great deal of pain and heartache along the way .. along with the joy I feel with the relationship with the MM ...

 

... and now that I have done it .. done what he cautioned me against .. he wants me to be responsible for my decisions and he knows that now that I have done it, i should follow it through to completion...

 

he also knows that I am upset over the situation mostly because I am upset in general about other things ... so I am putting all of the problems in my life right now on this relationship ... when in fact, the other problems I feel about being lonely, etc. are not going to vanish just because I toss him out now .. also, that I shouldn't "worry" about the R with the MM ... but take pleasure out of it while I continue to live the rest of my life ... his concern is that I will toss something good out of my life right now when I could use the situation and the joy it brings to uplift me ... the idea was not to pin the relationship on the outcome, but on the journey ... use it as a growth and learning experience ... learn how to enjoy what/whom I enjoy being with - without terminiating my other objectives, which are to find someone to share my life with ....

 

The problem I am having now is that I am pinning my life on what happens with this MM .. which would be unhealthy even if he weren't married .... truth is, this guy has no obligation to me whatsoever ... he is with me because he wants to be with me ... he has not told me he is leaving anyone ... this just started out ... I am not in a committed relationship with him ... we are not a couple ... I am actively dating ...

 

so for me to go around pinning my present life and potential future on him is stupid ... that is the therapist's point ... he feels as if I am strong enough to enjoy the relationship while keeping my own options open ... seen in this light, I might end up not wanting to be with him afterall ...

 

... my doctor thinks i am obsessing over this now because i am frustrated with other areas of my life ... and that is what he sees as unhealthy .. he doesn't think we are at the point in this R where the MM should be leaving his family over christmas ... we are not really together .... also, during this time, I should not even be worried at all about the MM and what he does or doesn't do ... why? because I should be invested in other areas of my life, and I should be able to see him if I want to .. in other words, there is no reason for me to be picking on this relationship when it is not a normal relationship ... if I have it, it should be for me pleasure ... to see for myself if it has any potential ....

 

... anyway, I am rambling now ... but the point too is that he may get me something when I see him at the beginning of January ... just because the MM couldn't make time to see me when he was surrounded by his family ... during a time when he should be with them (regardless of how he feels --- it would be inappropriate for the MM to go running off with me during the holidays ... aside from everything else, it might arouse suspicion, and the last thing either of us wants is to get caught)... so, yesterday was the big day, and we were in contact yesterday ... he sent me a text first thing in the morning and throughout the day ...

 

... now, I just have to let it go and not focus on it ... when I see him, I see him ... plus ... he still may get me something ... the jury is still out on that one ... just because he didn't get me something before the holiday (I couldn't see him) doesn't mean he won't give me something when he does see me again ... and even if he did get me something .... I would still have a problem to deal with (being involved with an MM)...

 

... point too is that pinning everything on christmas was an arbitrary way for me to decide to leave this relationship ... and, we never know in life what is going to happen ... we just have to recognize that whatever decisions we make/made are ours ... and to then enjoy those decisions ... not live each waking moment depending upon what someone else is going to do or not going to do .... we should enjoy each day of our lives ... keep it simple, not think too much .... not get bogged down ... not get in our own way ... just be strong, confident and happy ... happy with ourselves and our decisions ...

 

... i decided to go ahead with this R because I am happy being with him .. so, i should be happy when I am with him .... and my decision to leave him should be based upon weather or not i am still happy when I am with him ... not because he couldn't celebrate christmas with me in the way i would like to share it with someone who was available and committed to me ... that's all.. because the fact is, he is married. I KNOW that.... now, I know in my heart that the relationship will naturally take another course if he does not end up getting me anything for christmas ... and, in a normal relationship I would have been unhappy if he didn't see me for christmas ... this is not a normal relationship ...

 

... if he aknowledges christmas when he gets back, i will thank him for the gift and be happy i got it ... (i did afterall let him know that I was not ok with the pact) ... and, if he does not, I believe I will natrually feel that he is not invested at all, and this will send me in another direction ...

 

... there was/is no need for me to get bent out of shape over this ... the test I set up ... e.g., if he doesn't get something for me before christmas and make a point to blow off his entire family during the holiday to see me ... then he is out of here ... was a tough hurdle that i put in place in order to make my decision and life easier ... and the test was arbitrary ... and has nothing to do with how he feels or what he is planning to do ....

 

... my test right now is to see if i can go with the flow, and enjoy what i have when i have it ... this is not just a test for the MM but for everything else in my life ... to learn how to not overanalyze everything and still keep my positive energy to constantly more forward and find my way in this world ... going around setting up arbitrary tests for people, being so tied to the outcome, and worrying all the time is not a way to go through life ... if anything, maybe this was the lesson for me of this whole experience ..... i just now have to focus on being my best self ... happy and content with who i am ... no one is going to do that for me ... not the MM ... and not anyone else ...

[frannie]

Well Sandy, based on that post I think your therapist (and you) are doing a great job. I can see a lot of my own mistakes and tendencies in what you've been doing til now...

 

So, how IS the rest of your life coming along?

[Sandy223]

thanks Frannie --- that is what I am working on .... good news is that I have been invited to meet the chairman of a firm i want to work for ... apparently, no one gets hired without his permission, and I have met with everyone else ... so i have that to look forward to. It's an excellent job as a COO and they told me last week that they really want me on board... also, I have my spa triped booked for new years ... so I can come back refreshed with all of the angst, overanalyzing and worry I have caused myself behind me ... with a clear head i will start the new year ... that is all very positive ... plus, i have some really great supportive friends to do things with ... and that is positive ...

 

also, my doctor's point was also this: he is married, tied down legally, etc... i should not be wasting an ounce of energy worried about this ... who cares what he does was my doctor's point ... let him do what he does, but you take care of you, and if it was meant to be, and he falls in love and wants to leave, then so be it ... but, if not, so what? things will take their course, but I cannot spend any time worried about what he does ... just be/feel happy and free ... no, don't wait for him at all ... was his point ... if the guy wants you, let him come and get you ... you just be your wonderful and happy self ... focus on the rest of your life ... don't obsess over this and act as if it has to be this way or that way ... it is what it is ...

 

in other words ... the way i started this is the way i should be now ... keep myself happy and balanced and well adjusted and do not let anyone else throw you off course ... only we have power over ourselves ... if i don't like it, i could spend less time with him, but no need to make a big scene and pick on a situation that i am not really involved with anyway ...

 

... i am sure/know the guy has marital problems and he is not happy in his marraige ... it's stilff his marraige and his life ... only he can decide if he wants to change things regardless of me ... but there is absolutely no reason to insert myself beyond what i have done and force a stake in the outcome ... there is no reason why i should have the metality that i am waiting for anyone ... because i am not ... and my doctor reminded me of that ... point is, if I am going to be involved do it because it makes me feel good and enhances my life ....

... my doctor beleives that he has done nothing bad to me, that i am doing this to myself for absolutely no reason ... and that is counterproductive ... not only to my life, which is the main focus, but to the evolvution of the relationship as well ... why should put myself into a well and be down and depressed? that is not why I got involved with him ... I got involved because we connect on an emotional level, and we have a lot to talk about, and really enjoy being with each other ... so I should enjoy it ... and not become some kind of crippled victim ... or like a lost little girl in a maze ... this is not complicated ... not for me anyway, so i should not make it so

[Touche]

Your doctor is pretty much telling you to have no expectations. I guess if you have zero expectations from this guy, you won't be disappointed.

 

But in my book having zero expectations from someone you love makes you a doormat. Sorry, not trying to be mean but that's the way I see it.

 

He's telling you to be happy with crumbs. He's telling you to lower your expectations, which in my view were already too low to begin with.

 

I do wish you the best but I think you're fooling yourself into thinking you can be so easy-breezy about his treatment of you.

 

This whole thing with the therapist reminds me of that saying: "Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining."

[torranceshipman]

I dont think your T is being very helpful-basically this is a huge overanalysis of a very simple situation - the guy is married, makes no time for you, and doesnt bother getting you a xmas gift - he will never leave his family, and (sorry to use the most annoying phrase ever but) - he's just not that into you. Simple as that.

 

If you are up for a COO position clearly you're an intelligent woman and a good communicator, you sound like you have disposable income if you have a spa thing booked, you are probably hot (else MM as well as SG wouldnt be after you!) - so considering all that make 2009 YOUR year to fully take advantage of being the gorgeous intelligent female that you are. DROP the guy immediately-believe me, a lovely, soft, but 'i cant be with you anymore' message to him lets you get your pride and dignity back 100% immediately, YOU ended it, you walk away with your head held high, you will feel better about yourself immediately and then 2009 will be a really fresh start.

 

If you had a teenage daughter...do whatever you'd tell her to do in this situation - stay with married dirtbag who isnt into you, or leave with head held high because you know you are better than that!

 

Ok pep talk over! Good luck!!

[SerenityX2]

Sandy ...not only should you run from this situation but also your T. Is he a saddist? To stick with something why? To teach you a lesson? I've read some interesting things, but his views on conducting your life are of the most self serving and in no way will bring you the happiness you so crave.

 

One thing is correct, happiness comes from within, but it never comes at the expense of other's pain. You mention that you've prayed and even spoke to your minister. I think the turmoil you feel within is because it does go against your moral compass ...but Sandy you gotta know deep inside if want you want is God's will for your life....he's not about you being part of a destruction of M to get your happiness. God is love...God isn't about stepping on others. I'm sorry, but I think you know this but are squashing it down for what you want.

 

What your T suggests of not waiting around or building your hopes around a man but still seeing him would work if this guy is single, but he's not. That changes everything. If it were true that you could keep this casual that makes you using him (and him you) for what you are lacking in life.

 

I agree with the others that you won't be able to play it cool and be all wonderful and not expect to grow more attached the longer you are with him. I've seen that written by many heartbroken OW that thought they could keep it detached till he decided. And they're in tears.

 

Your reason to walk away shouldn't be based on the lack of a present. It should be based on the whole lack of respect. He has none towards you, I'm sorry that you've duped yourself into believing that little bit he shows you is love. You don't treat people you love like that, it isn't that hard.

 

I only wish to shed some light on what I see, you are far more invested it shows in your posts and that insecurity of what you really want does scream out no matter that you don't want it too.

 

Since you seem to like to know the history of the posters I'm not a BW I am happily married, why come to this forum? I've posted about it before I was trying to gain understanding for a pt however the more I read, the more it tugged at my heart to try to help. Although never been an OW I've made some bad judgments with guys that I've learned the hard way if you're looking to find peace and happiness, you'll never bend God to your will.

 

Sandy as always the choice is yours, free will. I wish you the best in being able to walk away from this before you lose more of yourself. I can't tell you how many times I've read that women were self confident and had it all together (just didn't have that man) only to end up losing themselves even more. The lesson doesn't have to be that hard to learn. And as I say, life is hard, but your love should never be. You should enhance each other and be each other's strength. Not happening here.

 

I hope the spa trip is the beginning of finding you. Take care.

[Sandy223]

Oh, wow! Serenity and Torrance - you both write so well ... and you are both very correct. This really is one hell of a thing I did to myself .... you are right ... .why should I spend anytime with him at all? And, the thing about us using each other .... of course I don't want that either!

 

This christmas thing brought things to a head for me: he definitely makes time to see me ... more than he should, probably. We go away on weekends together ... he spends the night at my house ... about once a week. And, in truth - I do want a committed relationship; playing it cool is a dangerous game only because it really isn't me ... I do have morals and standards ... I have duped myself as well ... back and forth I keep going on this ... and it is forcing me to take inventory of other areas of my life .. this "crisis" of being involved with an MM is shedding light on everything that I am and about .... I am sooo terribly confliced. I love spending time with him ... I love that he thinks I am gorgeous, and that I make him nervous and that he is gentle and caring when he is with me, and acts as if he is afraid to lose me ... it makes me think that I stumbled upon an unhappily married guy who has been thinking about leaving his marraige before I even came onto the scene ... and now, he met me and is falling in love with me ... I am kidding myself though if I sincerely think that I could objectively "get to know him" .... as if he were single ...

 

... truth is ... I really am looking for a husand ... and to date him as if he were one of the other single men I would go out with ... well, that is just not the truth... he is NOT! I am sooo glad right now that i did not see him going into christmas .... true, I torured myself during this period ... but maybe it's good that I had the opportunity to do so without him being around ... I pray to God that the time away at the spa will lead me more into the right direction ... and hopefully, when I get back, I won't even want to see him at all ... it, hopefully will be natural that I don't!

 

I have a meeting with a matchmaker the Monday I get back, and a dinner with another friend/matchmaker on Tuesday .... she has some people she wants to introduce me to .... plus, the organization I am involved with is planning its annual dinner/dance starting in January ... so I will have all of those meetings to go to and be involved with ... plus, the final interviews for the new job I was talking about ....

 

... what is making matters worse for me now is that I had a horrible x-mas ... my family is very dysfunctional, so being home with them alone was an absolute nightamre!!!!! Now that I have christmas hell behind me ... the angst over the MM plus all the anxiety that comes from my family ... plus (I forgot to mention this) ... but the consulting job that I have now is NG ... the guy is hemming and hawing about paying me on time, and keeps using the "economy" as an excuse not to pay me on time. I had a talk with him last week, and what was due to me on the first of January, I won't be getting until the 15th!!!!!! So, this christmas literally has been HELL!! But, on the positive side: The new job (which I initially starting interviewing for in August) called me last week ... but I had been through hell before that: I lost my job last February ... thankfully had enough so that it wasn't a financial struggle ... and then had three job offers in September ... they were all pulled when the financial crisis heat up ... every single one of them called to say they were putting the jobs on hold ... and, then I started this consulting thing ... and they have been a pain about paying me ... i knew it wasn't going to be a permanent situation, but i thought it might at least carry me through to the spring without any trauma ... but, no! he was late paying me in December too, and I had to go to my boss each week asking for money ... as if I were asking for them to give me a handout!!! When you work, you expect to get paid ... but, when you have to go in all the time and get nickled and dimed and get it in drips and drabs ... a little here, a little there .. that's BS and really takes a toll on you!!!! This is when I started the affair ... in September ... when I was waiting for those three jobs that fell through ... after having had been out of work for nine months!!!! The MM was a welcome addition to my life ... someone to spend time with without worrying about all of the other crap ... during that time, I was also actively dating ... met about 6 new people from September until now ... all while dating the MM .... most of them were one date, and a couple of them were 3 ... and another guy I went out with about 4 times ... I thought that one had potential, but he just wasn't right for me ... so around thanksgiving that one fizzled out!

 

That is another reason I have been freaking out over the MM situation ... look at my now! stuck in this BS consulting job, with all of the falls romantic prospects gone ... I felt very overwhelmed! So, I should be thankful for this break at christmas time, and thankful that this situation drove me to angst .... if i kept going blissfully along, maybe I would end up getting more and more attached until I drove myself into a hole!

 

But, now, at least ... out of the blue ... the firm I went to in August wants me there! So, maybe this is the beginning of a new, better situation .... maybe I will be stronger and genuinely more confident knowing that things are on the up for me .... I pray that by the time this "cleansing" is over and he returns, I will naturally not want to see him ... I hope that I am so preoccupied with all of the new, positive things I just mentioned, that I won't even bat an eye ....

[frannie]

Your doctor is pretty much telling you to have no expectations. I guess if you have zero expectations from this guy, you won't be disappointed.

 

But in my book having zero expectations from someone you love makes you a doormat. Sorry, not trying to be mean but that's the way I see it.

 

He's telling you to be happy with crumbs. He's telling you to lower your expectations, which in my view were already too low to begin with.

 

I do wish you the best but I think you're fooling yourself into thinking you can be so easy-breezy about his treatment of you.

 

This whole thing with the therapist reminds me of that saying: "Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining."

 

The way I see it is the T told her that going into the relationship would be a disaster, but since she did it anyway, for particular reasons, to ditch those reasons now and try to make it into something it isn't would be counter-productive.

 

Simply put: I think the idea is that it's accepted that Sandy goes into the R for particular reasons: to see if they're compatable, to have fun, to be in something that's non-committal (or whatever the intial reasons are). The T is saying, that those ideas should not be ditched now that the R is begun. To change tack now, and say that she's in a committed relationship, that presents should be given, that certain things should happen for it to be OK (he leaves, for example), then that is setting Sandy up for a fail. This is an affair, she can't expect presents necessarily (these issues may vary, plenty of affairs have presents!).

 

So what has happened, the T says: Sandy went in with one attitude and then changed the rules. And she changed them in a way that makes her unhappy. Not from anything HE did, but because she changed what she wanted from the affair.

 

And now, she's making it about a particular issue: If I get a present, therefore he loves me. When actually he didn't want to (or couldn't) give a present. So she's setting herself up for more anxiety and misery. The T realises that this is self-defeating, self-flaggelating. And is asking her to notice what she's doing to herself.

 

Other OW make it about this: 'If he loves me, he'll leave'. Therefore, if he doesn't leave, he doesn't love me: therefore I'm unloveable. Therefore I can flaggelate myself again about being unworthy of love. All very silly when you entered into an affair to begin with, almost certainly guaranteeing that you'll be disappointed (oh but those whips taste awfully good).

 

It's not about being in a relationship where you have 'no expectations', and allow someone to walk all over you. Not exactly. It's about NOTICING that you're deliberately doing things like this to yourself. Of course it's great if you can blame some bloke for it. But the idea is... that you notice you're the one to blame for chosing this for yourself, when you went into it.

 

The T is NOT saying 'be happy with crumbs'. The T is saying: why did you chose crumbs? Ask yourself that.

[White Flower]

OK, have you ever read 'Five Love Languages', or know about the concept? You evidently put gift-giving at the top of your list of love expressions. Nothing to do with materialism, just the way you like to express and receive love (read up about the idea for more information).

 

Your MM may not know or understand at all what this gift means to you. Doesn't mean he doesn't love you or care about you. Just gift-giving may not be his thing.

 

Plus you have stated to him in a very 'female' way, what it means: 'get me a gift if you want to'. That's the kind of thing drives men nuts!! You haven't explained to him at all (to my mind) what this gift means. You're setting him up to fail, and yourself to be disappointed, I think.

Frannie, as always, an excellent point and you beat me to it.

 

I do like receiving gifts but I would rather have one that is more meaningful than one that is expensive. MM once gave me a charm that resembled the place we met. Not expensive, but very meaningful and it means the world to me. If he gave me an expensive gift I would love it, but if I had to choose between the charm and a $5000 diamond tennis bracelt I would choose the charm. If he wrote me a poem I would melt in his arms because it would come from his soul.

 

But that is not to say that your guy shouldn't give you a material gift. Obviously that is one of your top love languages and if your R is going to last he needs to understand that.

 

Have you considered what his top love languages might be? It might be 'acts of service' or 'physical touch', (I'm counting on the latter;)), so he may not need a gift in return. He may want a lap dance, lol.

[moonshadow]

Holy sh*t Sandy, I must be bored because I managed to read through this entire thread, including your many manic responses. You don't need a therapist, you need a team of therapists. The way you fretted and obsessed about a gift, that was the epitome of neurotic. I don't think I've ever read anything in my life so - um, bizarre. You are an OW. Nothing but a convenient (for the MM) diversion from the realities of life and family and responsibility........a piece of arse.........an ego boost..........some dime a dozen eye candy.........not someone a MM values or respects or cherishes or wants to make a real part of his life. You are a side dish and a dirty secret. All OW are. And not only that, you send loud and clear messages to MM everywhere that there really *are* clueless women out there who are so needy and desperate for attention and false praise that they'll gladly accept the crumbs a MM will toss their way, just to help maintain their supply of forbidden p*ssy. It's all very sad.

[frannie]

You are an OW. Nothing but a convenient (for the MM) diversion from the realities of life and family and responsibility........a piece of arse.........an ego boost..........some dime a dozen eye candy.........not someone a MM values or respects or cherishes or wants to make a real part of his life.

 

:laugh: Ah, wouldn't it please some people if this were the truth?

[Sandy223]

Thanks Frannie! I bet that moonshadow (or whatever her name is) really got burned by someone ... to go around slamming other people, saying such disgusting things ... especially to someone who was in turmoil over a situation and here for support .... I just love the beautiful character of people who enjoy kicking others when they are down .... that moonshadow is probbably one gem of a person.

[NoIDidn't]

:laugh: Ah, wouldn't it please some people if this were the truth?

 

In some cases, it is the truth.

 

I don't see why that would be so funny. For the unfortunate woman with such a MM, its not a laughing matter watching her get her heart trampled by a man that doesn't respect her or any woman for that matter.

[frannie]

In some cases, it is the truth.

 

I don't see why that would be so funny. For the unfortunate woman with such a MM, its not a laughing matter watching her get her heart trampled by a man that doesn't respect her or any woman for that matter.

 

Yes, in some cases, it is.