Moving up in the world.

[BoredPerson]

I want to know if anyone here knows how hard it is to move up in the world.

From admin like stuff or a job that is basically doing the work no one else wants to do, into something decent. Can we generally move up in the world or are we slotted somewhere for most of our lives ? Based on the type of place we start out ?

[norajane]

Sure, it's hard, but it most certainly can be done.

 

You start out by being excellent at the low-level job, and go above and beyond your job description. You keep an eye out within your company to see if there are higher level positions you can aim for, and talk to people to find out what skills you need and what managerial support you need to be considered for those positions. Then you work to improve your skills, do some extra projects for key people even if they are not part of your job description, and make sure you apply for those roles when they are open, or let people know that you want one of those roles.

 

Talk to a lot of people about their jobs. Ask questions. Understand what they do. Let them get to know you and your aspirations. Don't just do your job 9 to 5 and go home. Get to know people at all levels in your company. Also, learn as much as you can about your company, their business, and the industry. Make yourself more valuable by actually caring about your company's success.

 

Another possibility is to see what is needed and develop a role for yourself. Make a case for yourself and present it to someone in a managerial role.

 

However, it's often the case that you can move up more easily by applying for a higher level role at a different company. Sometimes you get pigeon-holed where you are, but another company might see your skills differently. If you see that you're 'stuck' in one role at your company, don't stay there too long or you'll develop a resume that's only suited to the role you're in and others won't see you as ambitious and capable of moving up.

 

You can add additional education to make yourself more marketable, whether they be classes in your industry, or a degree.

 

Dress for the level you aspire to. Your appearance really does matter. If you dress like all the other mail clerks or secretaries, people won't see you any differently. Upgrade your wardrobe to what people at the next level are wearing.

[BoredPerson]

So basically NO. You can't.

[norajane]

So basically NO. You can't.

 

 

Actually, what I said was, basically, YES, you can.

 

You do have to actually do some work to make it happen. It won't just fall into your lap. Your career is in your hands - no one is just going to hand you a promotion if you sit around just doing the minimum.

 

And basic reading comprehension skills are a must.

[BoredPerson]

Which basically prove the rule that you cannot unless under special circumstances.

 

If I had asked 'Can an Accountant one day become a CPA'. The answer would be yes you can. Not if you work extra hard and get noticed you might be able to if you meet the right people.

 

Which begs the solution. I guess I just do my job for money. Get a better degree and pretend like it was never a career thing.

[norajane]

No, there is not a career path set up to go from administrative assistant to VP in three easy steps.

 

It requires ambition. And developing skills. And networking. And accomplishments. And hard work.

 

Are you ambitious? Sounds like you're giving up before you even try.

[BoredPerson]

What is a VP ? I just want to be a respected professional. I don't want to be at the top, just not at the very bottom. I'm scared to do an accounting course or a masters in economics because if I don't get a job it will be a lot of money wasted.

[Eve]

I would agree that it is pretty hard to move up sometimes! I think that whoever manages you at work can have the biggest impact on how quickly the progression occurs. I liked the advice given by Norajane and think that starting at the bottom is probably the best place to develop - especially within learning the basics of our chosen area and how to make ourselves stand out and network. I started off in admin and moved upwards by my own sheer love of what I do. One problem I found was that due to the fact I have never really been interested in management I had to make a decision to leave a company I had been working with for a long time in order to concentrate on consultancy. Is there another course that you could do which does not have the intensity of a full blown Masters but could line you up for a better position? I would say that its always good to be studying something. I opted for a Post Graduate course but my former employers would not support me. In the end I got the money through a research council and my new employers snapped me up immediately - even allowing me study leave and far far far better pay! I got to know this company via networking and it was quite a strange interview because I knew everyone really well by strength of always walking that extra mile with clients etc. My former manager got into a lot of trouble for not supporting me in the end because I was extremely good at my former job but I had become bored with not being supported. It was a big decision to leave my former employment but I am absolutely loving my new job. Funny thing was once I decided to leave my former employers and began going to interviews they did make some efforts to offer me other work within the company but by then I decided that it was time to move on. I had simply been pigeon holed into a role which I had outgrown. Leaving all my old clients was hard but as Nora said, it is definately worth looking at competitors and what they are offering as well as making it known at your current job that you are interested in further study of some kind.. but dont wait for anyone to outline or suggest anything. Make it happen! Regards,Eve xx

[OneTwo]

So I am confused. Bored, are you asking if there is a way to move up without having to get a degree and work hard? Is that what you are asking?

 

Not to be judgemental, but you are asking an open-ended question. Plus, you responded in post #7 with, "What is a VP ?" Do you really not know what that stands for? May I ask how old you are as well? It just seems like you might be someone who is just starting out in your work life, and who doesn't have a great deal of experience.

[BoredPerson]

I want to move up and I am prepared to do whatever it takes to get there. If I need to get more degree's then so be it.

 

I don't have the best social understanding. It has also been hard for me to navigate the job market. I don't know a lot of things, which is why I come to ask for help. I don't have any professional relatives who can guide me either.

 

I want to know of the pit falls to avoid. I understand there are limitations. However I want to go up as far as I can go. I think accounting might be the best profession for me but I am not sure. A management accountant on 85-95k per year or similar would be a good place to get too. As a guide I basically want to be in a good position. But I know so little, and feel like life is full of pit falls that will result in hard work being wasted, only digging yourself further and further from your goal. Like I said I don't know.

 

I think VP stands for Vice President ? I don't know what it does, or how it is related to the career path of admin assistant. I thought admins basically made up diaries, booked flights and organized things in an office. I also thought they are people hired into the office, sometimes, to make the other workers feel good. Sort of like a hospitality worker. I thought that was a key job to avoid because you get few skills to move to a better job, and you end up getting pigeon holed.

 

Eve - did you advance in the administration career or did you move into something else entirely.

 

I am very early in my career I am M turning 25 and have previously worked in hospitality and in retail banking. The culture at the bank did not support lateral movement at all.

[2sure]

Your experience so far is with entry level positions. And you will continue to stay in those positions with little upward mobility unless you take action in regards to education and training to put yourself in a higher position.

 

It seemed as though you are asking if you can move up in the world, from an entry level position, simply by doing your entry level job - the answer of course, is NO.

 

Some people with 4 years or more of college start jobs at the entry level - but soon move up if they are talented.

[Eve]

I am on my second career. Within both admin has been central in learning the basics in order to progress to activiities such as writing client files etc. I think having a goal is important but it is not as important as the actual journey. Try and enjoy your work first and foremost (not sure if accountancy is enjoyable!) and definately engage in further study.

 

Regards,

Eve xx

[Eve]

I want to move up and I am prepared to do whatever it takes to get there. If I need to get more degree's then so be it.

 

I don't have the best social understanding. It has also been hard for me to navigate the job market. I don't know a lot of things, which is why I come to ask for help. I don't have any professional relatives who can guide me either.

 

I want to know of the pit falls to avoid. I understand there are limitations. However I want to go up as far as I can go. I think accounting might be the best profession for me but I am not sure. .

 

I was thinking more about what you have said and remembered the massive influence key people have had on my life. When I had noone key figures in history and celebrities were my inspiration and I have been blessed to meet some pretty smart people in my time. Look hard at who you value around you and imitate the behaviours you see as being productive.

 

... but please be careful.. I always say to my children that comparisons can only make a person vain or bitter so dont compare yourself negatively. Essentially, you may not have someone directly within your family to guide you but there will be people who you can find some of level of inspiration and guidance from. Seek them out and spend time with them in whatever way you can. I hope that you have family members who are central to who you are today, never let go of that. Key things which they have taught you do count as transferable skills in many respects.

 

Also, success is a lot more than position. The true hallmark of success (I believe) is using knowledge which has been attained to guide someone else.

 

Then again, I think far too much sometimes! and we do work in very different fields! I just think that you are a little too focused on getting a good position. There is SO much which comes with success. Get the right balance now so that you wont end up having a heart attack or a power affair later on. I am just so aware that money can be a very deceptive marker. What matters most is that you learn to manage yourself and see a bigger picture. So, I am SO glad that you are asking these questions now so that one day maybe you will make a good Boss rather than one of those empty headed ones who really were only ever in it for the money.

 

Another reality is that you may have to stay in a low end position for a while. I think that this is a pretty frustrating concept after graduating but is a harsh reality for many. To climb the ladder you have to be at the top of the game and this includes making sure you are exceptionally well groomed, ask the right questions and seriously know your ****. Be the non bitchy person everyone misses when you are on annual leave. Study and talk about what you find difficult in your role in order to be yet more attentive.

 

Once you have attention of a good Manager you are part way there.

 

Regards,

Eve xx

[BoredPerson]

I am on my second career. Within both admin has been central in learning the basics in order to progress to activiities such as writing client files etc. I think having a goal is important but it is not as important as the actual journey. Try and enjoy your work first and foremost (not sure if accountancy is enjoyable!) and definately engage in further study.

 

Regards,

Eve xx

 

I'd rather do math or accounting than have to deal with people. I'd even prefer to code. I need the relevant skills and qualifications. I like people but they are not my strong point. I can't stand dealing with them all day either. Maybe the key to happiness for me is to study some more on a less general qualification. I can't quit my job out right I'd have to find something I could study online or at nights. Dunno if I am too old to change directions completely.

 

Well groomed is going to be difficult. I am not a pretty person. People don't automatically like me. Heh I can't even get a girlfriend. I don't think any of that matters for a male. I just need to find a way to get on the 'inside'.

[anne1707]

I'd rather do math or accounting than have to deal with people. .

 

Sorry but to really progress as an accountant, you do need to deal with people!

 

Yes, you can progress and develop your career but it is not going to be handed to you on a plate. You need to be prepared to study, to put in the extra effort and to take risks. You need to push yourself in to going for other jobs whether internal or external. When projects are being set up at work, get involved. Get yourself noticed as someone who can take on responsibility.

 

You are only 25. You have plenty of time to make a change.

[OneTwo]

I'd rather do math or accounting than have to deal with people....I can't stand dealing with them all day either....Well groomed is going to be difficult....People don't automatically like me.....I just need to find a way to get on the 'inside'.

 

These are typically incompatible in the job world (and in dating as well). People who have an inside track usually get there because of their people-skills. They are charming and smart and well liked. You don't have to be a pretty person, but you will find that if you want favors and acceptance into the good-ole-boy system, you will have to be liked.

 

The other option is to be recognized solely for your acomplishments, certifications, intelligence, and abilities. However, one of those abilities will be interpersonal relationships. If that is deficient, you will still be limited in how far you can go up the corporate ladder.

 

The alternative is to start your own business. But, your customers will be limited if you do not master human interaction.

 

--Just some points to ponder.....

[Gorecki]

There are a lot of good points posted in here already, but here's my two cents:

 

I am also young and starting my career in an entry level position, and I can tell you the main tip everyone who is in a higher position has given me boils down to being "known". You can do a fantastic job at whatever it is you do day in and day out, but if no one notices you and sees you making an effort to go above and beyond and reach for that next level, no one is going to offer up any hand outs.

 

It's tough for me because I'm not exactly a boisterous personality, I'm quiet and keep my interactions mostly within my team, but I'm told time and time again that to move up, I'm going to have to do more than my job description. I'll have to come out of my shell, so to speak, and "play the game". It's all about selling yourself and having the confidence to believe in what you're saying.

[BoredPerson]

These are typically incompatible in the job world (and in dating as well). People who have an inside track usually get there because of their people-skills. They are charming and smart and well liked. You don't have to be a pretty person, but you will find that if you want favors and acceptance into the good-ole-boy system, you will have to be liked.

 

The other option is to be recognized solely for your acomplishments, certifications, intelligence, and abilities. However, one of those abilities will be interpersonal relationships. If that is deficient, you will still be limited in how far you can go up the corporate ladder.

 

The alternative is to start your own business. But, your customers will be limited if you do not master human interaction.

 

--Just some points to ponder.....

 

I'm just trying to think what is the best way for me to move up. There is a difference between interacting with people, and serving people. I don't mind interacting or doing team work with people but I don't want to be serving them. I hate it. I won't do well if that is an important requirement of the job. With accounting I figure you need a certain amount of experience and technical knowledge to do the job and get promoted. Same with programming. I also think I'd be a lot happier with a narrow field to focus on. That is why I am considering a masters in economics or statistics because it would give me more credibility in that field and specialize me. However I don't have relevant experience.

 

I'd rather be working on something rather than with people. When I say move up I am also a confused person in regards to how far it is that I need to go. For the record I am not an administrative assistant I was just using that as an example. No one is going to give you a hand up but it is important to know that you don't put your self in a pit so big you can't climb out.

 

Like the people (usually women) who get stuck in adminstrative positions.

[OneTwo]

Hmm....I'm not sure about your posts: on one hand you say that you are not in an administrative position and that you are considering getting a master's degree, but on the other hand, you seem to lack the basic knowledge and understanding of the what the various job functions are within a corporation.

 

My guess is that you did not finish college? Not trying to offend here, but it just seems that way by your posts. I might be wrong.

 

So, let me spell it out.

 

Do on-line research into the various job functions that you might be interested in. Go visit a university career counseling center or do an on-line search of those terms ("career counseling center"). Take some of the self assessment tests. Figure out what type of work interests you and then figure out what type of education in necessary to obtain that type of job.

 

After you obtain the necessary education, what you do with it is up to you. There are no limits - only possibilities and opportunities. You will have to work hard and be prepared. When opportunity knocks, you need to be ready to open the door. Every year you should do a skill-set assessment to make sure that you are marketable in today's job market. If opportunities do not exist at the place you are working (or will work once settled), you might have to leave for greener pastures. It seems like a crap-shoot, but it is really perseverance and positive attitude that separates the average Joe from the successful Joseph.

[BoredPerson]

I have a degree but I am not happy with it so I talk like I do not have one.

 

What made you think I did not finish college ?