What does it all mean?

[oowatanite]

[sIZE=3][FONT=Times New Roman]Hello. Here is my dilemma. I have been with my wife for 18 years, married for 14 years and about 8 months ago she told me that she loves me but is not "in love" with me anymore. We tried counselling but she gave that only 1 session and decided to move out of the house. That was 6 months ago. We have three children and two of them live with me and the oldest was living out of the house at the time of our separation but has since moved back home and is living with my ex. When she left, she told me that she wants to stay friends and does not want things to get "messy" with arguments about the financial aspect of separation. So I left all of the decisions with respect to that with her and she has mentioned what she wants from me once but has not pushed me for anything nor has she contacted a lawyer. She tells me that there is no other man in her life and it is just her. She says that she repressed a part of her during our time together and has since found happiness without me there to criticize her for the way she acts. I was devastated when she left and tried to convince her that I could change and that we could work things out. To be honest, I was a whining cry baby and tried to get my way by making her either feel guilty for leaving the kids or by me getting so depressed that she felt guilty for leaving me. Needless to say, that only drove her further away. I thought that she was willing to work on the relationship with me and that we would try a healing separation. Since our separation, I have been in counselling, have taken up meditation, taken an anger management course and have generally improved myself as a person and my kids even tell me that I am nicer to be around. I used to be controlling and was verbally abusive to my ex and my kids and I recognise that was a problem and have done everything I can possibly think of to change that about myself. About 2 months ago, she told me that she is never coming back and she is done with me. I have tried to move on and even started seeing other women but I found that being with them only masked my pain and I kept comparing them to my ex. I want her back so badly and I still love her. But if what she says is true that she will never come back, then I need to move on and fully let her go. My problem is that she will show up at the house when it is convenient for her so that she can visit with the kids. I have not restricted her access to the kids because for one, I want her to be a part of the kids lives as much as possible and two, I also get to spend time with her when she comes around. She takes the kids every weekend and will generally show up 1-2 nights during the week. But I know that with her coming around all the time I never really get the chance to let her go. Being near her and not being able to show her how much I care for her tears my heart out and then I get resentful with her and act weird. She can see this and it just reaffirms to her that I haven't changed and I am still trying to get my way. Is she going through a mid-life crisis and doesn't really know what she wants? If she says she is happier by herself, then why is she coming around so often? Is it just to see the kids or is there something else? Whenever I ask her if she is willing to give me another chance, she tells me that she doesn't feel that way toward me anymore. I find myself caught in a whirlwind of emotions, needing so badly to let her go but also wanting to have her back in my life. I'm not sure where to turn. I hope that you can provide some solid advice. Thank you.[/FONT][/sIZE]

[Owl]

OK...this whole situation screams "exit affair".

 

Of course if she were involved with someone else, she'd NEVER admit it to you.

 

But, there are red flags all over in your comments that suggest that she's probably been seeing someone else.

 

Have you tried to find that out? Take a look at her cell phone records for the last six months leading up to the seperation...I'll bet somewhere in there you see tons of calls to one or two specific numbers. Take a look at her spending habits (credit card statements) leading up to that timeframe as well.

 

IF this is an exit affair (or, even if it's not), you can use the marriagebuilders plans in your situation. It sounds to me like you might consider reading a couple of books (Surviving an Affair, His Needs/Her Needs) and see if there's anything you can pull out about plan A and plan B.

 

Go to the marriagebuilders.com website, and look at their "free material". AVOID THE FORUM...but read the resources there. Come back here and post.

 

Look for information on 'emotional needs', the 'love bank', plan a and plan b.

[Owl]

Oh...and something that will help. Break your story and responses down into paragraphs. Good punctuation helps people read your posts, and will likely help you get more responses too.

[oowatanite]

Thanks for the tip Owl. I had a quick look at the site but I really believe that she is not or never had an affair. I may just be blind to the fact, but I believe her. I will not spy on her to find out either and it would be next to impossible as she is living apart from me now.

 

I just don't understand why she keeps coming around so often. If she chose to leave then why come back? It's torture for me, but at least I get to spend time with her and be her friend. And for the kids sake it's good to be friendly.

[mark982]

why leave the money part of it to her? you got to cover your azz especially now. why isn't she paying you child support? she wants you to feel bad,and she knows you'll let everything slide.

[Focus_On_The_Process]

If you can, power through the thread "How to start from scratch in 12 mo separation?" It's long; it will take you a while. But there's a lot of good advice in there, and you can see how it unfolds.

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t157071/

 

Somewhere in there you'll find a few posts on "34 rules." Try them. They are hard to do, very hard to stick to, contrary to your instincts, contrary to what you've done so far, and contrary to advice you'll find elsewhere on this board (and that you've already received in response to your post). But in my limited experience I think that they do work, if you can bring yourself to stick to them. I've been having some success with them, so far.

 

Also - and I realize that I may get flamed for this, but so it goes - beware that many posters to this board bring their own experience, bias, and bag of tricks to their reading of your situation, which may or may not be similar. Check out other threads and posts just to familiarize yourself with the patterns. Doesn't mean that this "pattern" advice is wrong; it may be dead on. But keep your wits about you and apply your own judgment.

 

Best wishes.

[oowatanite]

The problem with the financial side of things is this, I am in the military and therefore have a pension and she is entitled to half. Not something I want to give up. So far, she has said that she doesn't want to touch my pension and I know if I piss her off, she might get vengeful. I guess I have not pushed the issue because I thought up until a month and a half ago that she was willing to work on the relationship.

 

At that point, she told me that she is never coming back. So I have slowly started the ball rolling on a few things, but I want to move slow because I still feel like I'm getting mixed signals from her. Could be just denial, but if you read earlier, she keeps coming back around to "visit the kids". Still don't know what to make of that.

 

As for Child Support, if we were to split things down the middle and calculate child support, I would still lose out. Half my pension, half the house, half the RRSP's. Might be time to talk to a lawyer.

[mark982]

you don't have to hire a lawyer. but do talk to one, would a jag officer help?

[Gunny376]

I'm retired military, and have been so for the lasdt 13 years. I also went through a divorce 18 years ago. Haing the benefit of such an experience, I would suggest you get divorced ASAP if the wife is of the mindset that she doesn['t want any part of your military retirement. Get a lawyer and have the papers drawn up, with a clause stating that she waviers any present or future right to such.

 

Sell the house or buy her half out. If the two youngest children live with you she'll have to pay your child support. Even if they move in with her, and you have to pay her child support it will be only temporary. Of course the welfare of the children is paramount, but second to that is preserving your military retirement and benefits, your credit rating, and finances. If that means your eating red beans & rice along with some cornbread three times a day for years ~ so be it. (I did )

 

Close any and all joint accounts and get them converted into single accounts ASAP, and then get busy paying them off.

 

Here's the list FOP refered to:

 

You asked for the 180's list, so I'll print it for you here. This is from Michelle Weiner Davis' book Divorcebusting:

 

Quote:

 

 

1. Do not pursue, reason, chase, beg, plead or

implore!

2. No frequent phone calls

3. Do not point out good points in marriage

4. Do not follow him around the house

5. Do not encourage talk about the future

6. Do not ask for help from family members

7. Do not ask for reassurances

8. Do not buy gifts

9. Do not schedule dates together

10. Do not spy on spouse

11. Do not say "I Love You"

12. Act as if you are moving on with your life

13. Be cheerful, strong, outgoing and attractive

14. Don't sit around waiting on your spouse - get

busy, do things, go to church, go out with friends,

etc.

15. When home with your spouse, (if you usually start

the conversation) be scarce or short on words

16. If you are in the habit of asking your spouse his

whereabouts, ASK NOTHING

17. You need to make your partner think that you have

had an awakening and, as far as you are concerned, you

are going to move on with your life, with or without

your spouse

18. Do not be nasty, angry or even cold - just pull

back and wait to see if spouse notices and, more

important, realize what he will be missing

19. No matter what you are feeling TODAY, only show

your spouse happiness and contentment. Show him

someone he would want to be around.

20. All questions about marriage should be put on

hold, until your spouse wants to talk about it (which

may be a while)

21. Never lose your cool

22. Don't be overly enthusiiastic

23. Do not argue about how he feels (it only makes

their feelings stronger)

24. Be patient

25. Listen carefully to what your spouse is really

saying to you

26. Learn to back off, shut up and walk away when you

want to speak out

27. Take care of yourself (exercise, sleep, laugh &

focus on all the other parts of your life that are not

in turmoil)

28. Be strong and confident and learn to speak softly

29. Know that if you can do 180, your smallest

CONSISTENT actions will be noticed much more than any

words you can say or write

30. Do not be openly desperate or needy even when you

are hurting more than ever and are desperate and needy

31. Do not focus on yourself when communicating with

your spouse

32. Do not believe any of what you hear and less than

50% of what you see. Your spouse will speak in

absolute negatives because he is hurting and scared

33. Do not give up no matter how dark it is or how bad

you feel

34. Do not backslide from your hardearned changes

I wouldn't implement this until AFTER she refuses compliance. Instead, I'd be fairly cooperative with her right up until Legal Separation. After that, I'd do 180's and let her stew a little. She'll be off balance because she's no longer in charge, and she'll be wondering if you're moving on without her.

 

You might also want to refer to this thread:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showthread.php?t=95838&highlight=Wolfe

[oowatanite]

Thanks for the input Gunny. I've been deep into SingleDad's thread - How to start from scratch in 12 mo separation ?. I see a mirror image of what he is going through and my situation. I will certainly talk to a lawyer, she wants to be separated, so I'll give her what she wants. Making it legal will likely make her see that I am willing to let her go and take the appropriate steps to make it happen for her.

 

Also printed out the 34 divorce busting tips. Had to catch myself on #8 though. I already bought her a Christmas gift! But I'll hide it and see if she gets me anything. If not, I return the gift, if so then I'll give it to her. I guess either way I'm covered. Don't want to be standing there empty handed if she gets me something!

 

I still have to work on my control issues. I know that. If I could give up the fact that I can no longer control her and her actions, then maybe I could start really proving to her that I love her. Time will tell. Thanks for the advice folks.

[oowatanite]

So, after a crappy Christmas and an even worse New Year, my STBXW comes by on New Years Day to spend time with the kids and to make us supper. No problem old door mat here is OK with that. So when I asked her if she was taking the kids overnight, she says she has "plans". So I assume that means she has a date. This is the first time she has ever said that she has "plans". Usually it's, I have soccer or something legit.

 

So that's fine, I've been dating myself, so this shouldn't upset me, right? Wrong. At first, I got angry but didn't say anything, I had to go to the store so left without saying anything and rationalised this out that it was OK and not to react that way. So when I got back she says that if I have plans she could take the kids. She can obviously read me like a book and could tell I was PO'd. I just replied no that's fine, I just got freaked out for no reason. So the rest of the day we made light conversation but this was working on me the whole time so when she went to leave, I started following her around like a lost puppy and she knew something was up because she avoided eye contact until the very last minute. I said "I wish things were different", she said "I know" and then left.

 

Since, I have been a bit of a basket case. And not sure what to do. I am getting tired of this "friendship" that she thinks we have so I have written an e-mail but haven't sent it yet. Just want some opinions as to what you folks think. Remember that my ultimate goal here is to win her back. So if this is too harsh, let me know. Yeah, yeah, I'm a sucker and should kick her to the curb, but what ya gonna do?

 

Here it is:

 

I have agonised about writing this to you because I do not want things to get bad between us. I want to discuss our "friendship" and our "agreement" that we have with visitation. Lately I have been feeling as though I have been taken for granted and that my feelings do not matter. That is to say that I feel that what you think our friendship should be and what I think it should be are two very different things. To me a friendship is one of giving and taking and being there if the other needs to simply talk or needs company.

 

I think that you do not have the same view when it comes to our friendship. Just as an example, you must feel that it is fine to come by the house and bring coffee and cigars to share with me as "friends", but if I ask you to meet for a coffee, I get "no thank you". I really do not see the difference between the two. I cannot and will not feel this way anymore. If this is your idea of friendship, then I guess I really do not need a friend that cares so little about me and my feelings.

 

I really have tried to endure this type of treatment from you for this long for the kids sake and yes, because I thought that we had a chance. Now I see that this is a freindship of convenience for you and I will not tolerate it any longer. When it comes to you visiting the kids when I have them, I do not believe that it is fair that you can come by when and if you feel like it but if I were to do the same it would not be acceptable. So I ask that you not do that anymore. I think that it is unfair to both me and the girls that you can pop in and out of our lives at your leisure. So I ask that you respect our agreement of picking the girls up prior to supper (5:00) on Fridays and dropping them off after supper (7:00) on Sundays.

 

Please do not get me wrong that I am punishing you in any way. I still want you to be a part of the girls lives and I still want us to be there for them if one of us has work or other obligations that make it impossible for one of us to be there for them.

[oowatanite]

Sorry folks, I just had an epiphany! I guess if I send this to her or say any of this I am really telling her that I cannot handle my emotions and that SHE has to change not ME. Well, that's where I went wrong in the first place, trying to control her actions and expecting everyone else to bend to my rule. I guess I just needed to get this out there to reflect on what it really means. Sorry bought that!

[BikerBeagle]

I don't know that you need to send that email ...you are portraying yourself as a victim and her as the enemy. This rarely works out well. Child visitation arrangements are simply business transactions and don't require you telling her how you 'feel' or what you want emotionally.

 

It is better just to no longer agree to her coming over ...if she comes over unannounced, tell her that you don't require her assistance or company and that you will abide by the visitation arrangement previously discussed and offer to renegotiate if she doesn't think she is getting enough time. Of course, you'll need to prepared for the backlash, she's not going to take this well now that you have allowed her to come and go as she pleases ...do you have your visitation in writing legally? ...if not, GET IT DONE ASAP.

 

It is not impossible to have a limited, no-friendship contact with your ex when kids are involved ...I've done it for the past 8 years ...but you need to abide strictly by the agreement and not get bent out of shape if she's 5 or 10 minutes late picking them up/dropping them off ...and don't expect to use her as your babysitter when you have dates or other plans. The worst thing you can do here is take advantage of her, as she is doing to you. Take the higher road on this matter, for our kids' sake.

[oowatanite]

Thanks BB for the advice. I did delete the e-mail because as I said, I was being selfish and do want to punish her for me feeling the way I do. I just wish that I could be the strong, independent person that I was when we were together and when we were dating 18 years ago. I didn't care what she was doing then. Maybe that is because I always knew that she would be there.

 

Now it is so different. I used to love my alone time and would work on projects and my hobbies, but now I am consumed with what she is doing and trying to win her back. I think that it can be done, but not the way I'm going about it. I keep telling myself that I need to be stronger and happier when she is around, but I always end up sticking my foot in my mouth or just acting too clingy. I know that is not attractive.

 

I have read SD's thread on starting from scratch and I see the same errors that I am making. Maybe I should try hypnotism to try to get her out of my head! LOL I know that everything that I must do is 100% me, I have to shake the feeling of insecurity and be a man, the kind of man that she would want that doesn't care what she is doing or who she is with. Any advice on how to go about making that happen?

[pelicanpreacher]

I'm retired military, and have been so for the lasdt 13 years. I also went through a divorce 18 years ago. Haing the benefit of such an experience, I would suggest you get divorced ASAP if the wife is of the mindset that she doesn['t want any part of your military retirement. Get a lawyer and have the papers drawn up, with a clause stating that she waviers any present or future right to such.

 

Sell the house or buy her half out. If the two youngest children live with you she'll have to pay your child support. Even if they move in with her, and you have to pay her child support it will be only temporary. Of course the welfare of the children is paramount, but second to that is preserving your military retirement and benefits, your credit rating, and finances. If that means your eating red beans & rice along with some cornbread three times a day for years ~ so be it. (I did )

 

 

 

You didn't forget about the hotsauce and hamhocks?!! For Christ sakes give the man something to live for!!! :lmao::lmao:

[Gunny376]

Forgot ABOUT the hamhocks (gotta' have some protein).

 

If you've got some Lousiana hot sauce you can dine with vultures!

[oowatanite]

Saw this on Wiki answers and had to share it:

 

In response to: How do you know it is really over?

 

He stops talking to you completely after the break up.

He doesn't answer your calls/texts/emails.

He's with someone else.

He tells you he hates you.

 

 

She doesn't cry over you breaking up.

She throws something at you when you break up.

She says she's calling the cops if you don't leave. She then actually does call the cops who dont see you running down your driveway and accidentally run you over on the way in. She then laughs at your squished and no longer recognisable body, but at least she buys a 2nd hand coffin for your funeral from the local waste busters.

[Gowithflow]

Now it is so different. I used to love my alone time and would work on projects and my hobbies, but now I am consumed with what she is doing and trying to win her back. I think that it can be done, but not the way I'm going about it. I keep telling myself that I need to be stronger and happier when she is around, but I always end up sticking my foot in my mouth or just acting too clingy. I know that is not attractive.

 

quote]

 

 

Feelin' you on this one buddy-

I've just filed the D papers, and i'm going about my business as though she is dead to me. Anything more than that is just bable for her to twist up and gossip to her friends. I've been doing the "friend thing" too, but it's always a setback for me. There's no way for me to get the STBXW back unless she comes to me, and the odds of that are very slim indeed, so I'm just focusing on myself and my kid. When I feel alone at night I just call different women. Makes me feel good for now.

Still, there's no denying that my breakup and feeling of being dumped for someone else is at the forefront of all my thoughts. This is a long term pain that I expect to feel over and over.

 

Good luck to you-

[oowatanite]

Thanks for that. It seems that now, she has no desire to even be my fiend anymore. She dropped the kids of last night and couldn't even look at me. So I guess it truly is over and there is no chance in her coming back. I think that she is dating as well and likely has some guilt from that.

 

Going to talk to a lawyer this week and get a separation agreement drawn up. Got to make sure I cover my own assets before she changes her mind about what seh wants from me. Looks like I'll get off lucky as she is waiving rights to a lot of stuff.

 

Still, I wish that I could get rid of the knot that is in my gut almost 24/7 and even worse when she is around. Hell, sometimes I can't even look her in the eye because then I start to have those feelings for her again. I tried the dating scene for a bit, but that didn't work for me, just confused me at this point, too early. So even calling other women is out of the question for me. And friends and family are scarce for me here so when I'm alone, I am really alone!