Ultimatums...fighting words??

[RavenHair]

I'm just curious...what are your thoughts on giving ultimatums in romantic relationships? Do you think they seriously damage and change the dynamics of the relationship? What about a person who thinks ultimatums are the only ways to get things done in their relationship? Do you think that is a form of control?

[quankanne]

I think ultimatums reflect a kind of immaturity, myself, because they don't take into consideration the other person's wants, needs, desires, thoughts ... they are a deathknell for relationships because of this.

[jwi71]

Ultimatums typically trap the issuer and not the recipient IME unless you actually carry through. If you don't, your credibility just tanked. They also tend to elicit a "I'll call you on it response" to see if you have the courage to follow through.

 

So if you issue one, you MUST be prepared to follow through.

 

And yes, they are a juvenile attempt at control - and usually they are meaningless.

[carhill]

OP, tell me the difference between consequences and ultimatums, in your opinion.....

 

All choices and actions have consequences, IMO. Advising another person of your boundaries and what consequences attach to their actions is a cornerstone of healthy communication.

 

I want to hear your perspective on what exactly an "ultimatum" is....

[angie2443]

All choices and actions have consequences, IMO. Advising another person of your boundaries and what consequences attach to their actions is a cornerstone of healthy communication.

..

 

This is very true. I think it is very important to let your partner know your bounderies and the consequences if those are broken. I wish I knew this at the beginning of my marriage. Things would have been much simpler.

 

Having said this, I think people get the concept of ultimatums and boundry setting confused. As I understand it, an ultmatum is issued like a threat. It's like saying "you'd better do this, or else". Setting a boundry is more like saying, "if you do this (or don't do this) this is how I will react". I see nothing wrong with the second if it is honest and you follow through on what you say.

[carhill]

Yes, I learned the nuances of this in MC. The real work is communicating boundaries and consequences in a calm and non-confrontational manner, something which is exceedingly difficult for me as I'm more of a loose cannon

 

Working on the "how" was and continues to be the majority of my work....

[Trimmer]

This is very true. I think it is very important to let your partner know your bounderies and the consequences if those are broken. I wish I knew this at the beginning of my marriage. Things would have been much simpler.

 

Having said this, I think people get the concept of ultimatums and boundry setting confused. As I understand it, an ultmatum is issued like a threat. It's like saying "you'd better do this, or else". Setting a boundry is more like saying, "if you do this (or don't do this) this is how I will react". I see nothing wrong with the second if it is honest and you follow through on what you say.

Also, an ultimatum, by the origin of its root, implies an "ultimate" resolution - a kind of a do or die proposition. "If you do this, then I torch the whole relationship" or something similarly "ultimate."

 

Whereas boundary setting, properly done, can and should span a wide range of possible responses, reactions, and consequences - on a spectrum from the mild to the more serious - all (ideally) proportional to the issue or boundary being considered.

 

Having said all that, I'm also interested in the OP's response to Carhill's question about illuminating his or her specific situation with more detail...

[BlackLovely]

It's all about the delivery hon. I gave my fiance an ultimatum to allow me to move in with him; basically a "commit or I'm gone" deal. He said I could move in and then bailed at the last minute. He was kind enough to give me first and last since I already gave up my place.

He had a lot of commitment struggles and the second time I gave him an ultimatum, it was very mature and matter of fact. I told him that I loved him and wanted to be with him forever. I said that I was at a place in my life where I wanted to marry the man I loved and that if he wasn't ready to commit, I would need to find someone that was. I calmly reminded him that he was 34 and not 24 and that unless he conquered his fear, he would be alone forever.

See the difference babes? I basically said the same thing, but in different ways.

If a man loves a woman, he'll commit to her because he loves her and wants her with him.

[Trimmer]

I gave my fiance an ultimatum to allow me to move in with him; basically a "commit or I'm gone" deal. He said I could move in and then bailed at the last minute.

And this again points out the nature of an ultimatum: it is the "ultimate" boundary, do or die, my way or the highway.

 

The other important thing to remember is that, as in BlackLovely's example above, if you issue an ultimatum, you have to be prepared for the very real possibility that the recipient will not be able to meet it. If that happens, either you stick to your ultimatum and the relationship is over, or you let it slide - and your credibility goes to zero.

 

On the other hand, if the recipient does change, don't you have to wonder how the dynamic of the relationship is shifted by your application of "ultimate" power to force that change, as opposed to some kind of a more collaborative approach within the relationship?

[angie2443]

It's all about the delivery hon. I gave my fiance an ultimatum to allow me to move in with him; basically a "commit or I'm gone" deal. He said I could move in and then bailed at the last minute. He was kind enough to give me first and last since I already gave up my place.

He had a lot of commitment struggles and the second time I gave him an ultimatum, it was very mature and matter of fact. I told him that I loved him and wanted to be with him forever. I said that I was at a place in my life where I wanted to marry the man I loved and that if he wasn't ready to commit, I would need to find someone that was. I calmly reminded him that he was 34 and not 24 and that unless he conquered his fear, he would be alone forever.

See the difference babes? I basically said the same thing, but in different ways.

If a man loves a woman, he'll commit to her because he loves her and wants her with him.

 

In this case I think you handled the situation well. You wanted one thing, he wanted another. You were wasting your time with someone who didn't want commitment. As long as you handle the situation in an adult manner, it is more than fine to say "if things don't change then I don't want to be in the relationship".

[RavenHair]

OP, tell me the difference between consequences and ultimatums, in your opinion.....

 

All choices and actions have consequences, IMO. Advising another person of your boundaries and what consequences attach to their actions is a cornerstone of healthy communication.

 

I want to hear your perspective on what exactly an "ultimatum" is....

 

 

My situation is that my partner accepted job A in a location that would be good for both of us. I would be able to continue with my education (at that time, I'd just gotten accepted to a good grad school), have my family and friends as well as my job and hobbies. He decided to take another job (job B) because they gave him a better "title" even though he's not even performing those duties. He left one morning telling me that he was going up to job A to finalize everything for his start date that coming Monday. When he got home, he nonchalanty told me that he decided to take job B in another other state and that he was leaving in a week and a half.

 

I was obviously upset, but I still wanted to be with him. I told him that we should take a trip there before I made my final decision to either stay where I was or to move with him despite how I felt about it. So we took the trip and I hated the place. I would have to start over completely. the nearest "good" school is 2 1/2 hours away. As a result, I told him that I was not going to move with him right away. I spent about month and a half traveling to see him every week and a half or so. Close to the end of October, he blew up and told me that I was more dedicated to the things I was doing in our home state than I was to our marriage and that I had a choice, it's either him or the things that were important to me. He said that if I didn't move with him by the end of the month, we were done. I was really mad because he did what he wanted for himself even though he knew how I'd feel about it.

 

I thought that it was only fair for me to be able to secure my future as well since I'd been taking him into consideration with my future plans and putting things on hold until it was right for "us" that whole time. In retrospect, that was a big mistake. He never acknowledged what he did or how it made me feel. He told me to just get over it and stop being small minded, all he did was take a good job. So I moved out to be with him, but I'm really unhappy. I don't have anything. Now whenever I "talk back" or don't follow his program, then he tells me that if I don't do whatever, then we're done. It's weighing on me. I love him, but I feel controlled and increasingly unhappy. I don't think our relationship is fair and when I talked to him about it, he told me that's how he had to get things done with me. If he didn't "put his foot down" then I wouldn't do what he wants me to do.

 

So IMO, an ultimatum is a threat. It's an attempt to force someone else to do something they don't want to do. It ultimately changes the dynamics of the relationship to one of distrust and control. In my case, I love my partner, but I don't like him as much and I don't trust him anymore. I'm walking on egg shells with everything I say and do for fear that we'll "be done".

[2nd-Best]

I think it depends on the situation.. if its like "You have to quit doing drugs or i'm going to leave you" I think that is a fair ultimatum, but something like "if you don't start paying attention to me more i'm going to seek it elsewhere" is an UNFAIR one.. i dunno, i think it just depends on the situation.

[soserious1]

My situation is that my partner accepted job A in a location that would be good for both of us. I would be able to continue with my education (at that time, I'd just gotten accepted to a good grad school), have my family and friends as well as my job and hobbies. He decided to take another job (job B) because they gave him a better "title" even though he's not even performing those duties. He left one morning telling me that he was going up to job A to finalize everything for his start date that coming Monday. When he got home, he nonchalanty told me that he decided to take job B in another other state and that he was leaving in a week and a half.

 

I was obviously upset, but I still wanted to be with him. I told him that we should take a trip there before I made my final decision to either stay where I was or to move with him despite how I felt about it. So we took the trip and I hated the place. I would have to start over completely. the nearest "good" school is 2 1/2 hours away. As a result, I told him that I was not going to move with him right away. I spent about month and a half traveling to see him every week and a half or so. Close to the end of October, he blew up and told me that I was more dedicated to the things I was doing in our home state than I was to our marriage and that I had a choice, it's either him or the things that were important to me. He said that if I didn't move with him by the end of the month, we were done. I was really mad because he did what he wanted for himself even though he knew how I'd feel about it.

 

I thought that it was only fair for me to be able to secure my future as well since I'd been taking him into consideration with my future plans and putting things on hold until it was right for "us" that whole time. In retrospect, that was a big mistake. He never acknowledged what he did or how it made me feel. He told me to just get over it and stop being small minded, all he did was take a good job. So I moved out to be with him, but I'm really unhappy. I don't have anything. Now whenever I "talk back" or don't follow his program, then he tells me that if I don't do whatever, then we're done. It's weighing on me. I love him, but I feel controlled and increasingly unhappy. I don't think our relationship is fair and when I talked to him about it, he told me that's how he had to get things done with me. If he didn't "put his foot down" then I wouldn't do what he wants me to do.

 

So IMO, an ultimatum is a threat. It's an attempt to force someone else to do something they don't want to do. It ultimately changes the dynamics of the relationship to one of distrust and control. In my case, I love my partner, but I don't like him as much and I don't trust him anymore. I'm walking on egg shells with everything I say and do for fear that we'll "be done".

 

It sounds to me very much like your husband wants your marriage to "be done" but he wants you to be the one to pull the trigger.

 

He expects you to do what exactly without a job and without school?

 

If it were me, I'd give him what he wants, I'd be on a plane back to my life so fast his head would spin. How can you even look at this guy without feeling all encompassing rage?

[Tizzy]

I personally am not very fond of ultimatums period, whether in a relationship or otherwise. I like it better when people do things out of their own free will. It makes their efforts authentic, not manipulated. Authentic actions show a person's character, whether good or bad. Manipulation brings short-lived, superficial results and can bring about resentment on both sides.

 

With an ultimatum, you are trying to control other people's actions, which should not be the case. You can only control what you do in life. Trying to change others and control them is futile. Even if you do get what you want via an ultimatum, I think something in your relationship with that person is bound to suffer, whether it be intimacy, love, respect, trust, or fidelity. I think a relationship loses something when one person tries to force the other person to do things they don't want to do, especially if this type of behavior goes on all the time. In fact, feeling the need to always issue ultimatums in a relationship is a huge sign that you are probably not in a relationship with the right person FOR YOU. It could also mean that perhaps you need to take a deep look inside yourself to figure out why you feel the need to manipulate and control people.

[JamesM]

Early in our dating days, my then gf gave me an ultimatum. I needed to do something or she would not date me next time.

 

I buckled and took care of the problem.

 

The next time there was an ultimatum was when I said (after being engaged) that I was not ready to marry and wanted to back off the engagement for awhile. She said if I did, then we were through.

 

I said okay. So be it.

 

And we broke up.

 

But she buckled.

 

Now we are married.

 

 

Ultimatums will kill the relationship unless the person being issued the ultimatum calls the bluff.

[Tizzy]

Now whenever I "talk back" or don't follow his program, then he tells me that if I don't do whatever, then we're done...I feel controlled and increasingly unhappy. I don't think our relationship is fair and when I talked to him about it, he told me that's how he had to get things done with me.

In my case, I love my partner, but I don't like him as much and I don't trust him anymore. I'm walking on egg shells with everything I say and do for fear that we'll "be done".

 

You keep calling him your partner, are you married to this guy? If not, leave him! Love doesn't mean anything in a relationship that doesn't have trust and respect, and you deserve more than that!

 

To be honest, I don't know the full nature of your relationship, but the comments you made in the OP about this guy sound like he is likely to become physically abusive eventually. It may not happen anytime soon but it sure seems like it is headed down that path. He has removed you from your support system, he belittles your feelings, he talks to you and treats you like a child, and he gives you ultimatums. All of these are flaring signs of emotional and verbal abuse and trust me when I say things will only escalate from there and get worse over time. I know what I'm talking about, I'm speaking from experience. This guy will never change for the better, he doesn't love you and he is only out to control you. Don't walk, RUN the heck away from this relationship, marriage, whatever. Go back home to your support system and start living for YOU again. You deserve a good man who will love you and treat you well and with respect. For your safety, I say ditch this guy.

[Trialbyfire]

There's a time and a place for an ultimatum. One fair ultimatum is if someone wants to retain their marriage after infidelity.

 

"If you don't stop your affair, I'm gone. This includes any current and/or future communications with the OW/OM. Our marriage is between you and I. Any third parties aren't welcome."

 

While I personally can't see ever wanting to retain a marriage after infidelity, others might and do see it differently.

[JamesM]

There's a time and a place for an ultimatum. One fair ultimatum is if someone wants to retain their marriage after infidelity.

 

"If you don't stop your affair, I'm gone. This includes any current and/or future communications with the OW/OM. Our marriage is between you and I. Any third parties aren't welcome."

 

While I personally can't see ever wanting to retain a marriage after infidelity, others might and do see it differently.

 

Excellent point.

[Trimmer]

There's a time and a place for an ultimatum. One fair ultimatum is if someone wants to retain their marriage after infidelity.

 

"If you don't stop your affair, I'm gone. This includes any current and/or future communications with the OW/OM. Our marriage is between you and I. Any third parties aren't welcome."

 

While I personally can't see ever wanting to retain a marriage after infidelity, others might and do see it differently.

 

Excellent point.

Again, I agree. It's the "ultimate" application of power - brinksmanship when nothing else will work. Appropriate to pull the aircraft out of a dive when it's headed for a crash, but not to be used serially to "get one's way" in day-to-day situations, or ones that should be collaborative in a healthy relationship (like, where are we going to live and how does that affect our long term plans, individually and together...) As the OP is finding, then it becomes a control factor.

 

You keep calling him your partner, are you married to this guy?

... sounds like they are married:

...he blew up and told me that I was more dedicated to the things I was doing in our home state than I was to our marriage and that I had a choice...

But I agree with the other points - if this continues to "work" for the H to get his way, it seems like his continued application of ultimatums on a regular basis together with an increasing tension in the OP as a result is likely to end up someplace bad...