financial support to christian ministries

[chris250]

So I have a question for the christians out there who have a ministry whether it's tv or radio or any type of ministry where you ask people to financially support and give to your ministry. Why do you do this?

 

Why do you think other people are obligated to financially support your ministry whether it's in a church or radio ministry or whatever? Wasn't it your idea to start your ministry? If it was then shouldn't you alone take financial responsibility for paying the bills that are necessary to continue operating your ministry?

 

I am concerned because a good portion of the christian world wants the rest of us to believe that we owe them money. They use guilt and fear to motivate people to give to their ministry. Why should we? We didn't force you to start your ministry.

 

Most churches will not welcome you to their potluck dinners unless you have given money to them. Their food is not free. They use your tithing money to do the potluck dinners. Why do ministers quit their secular job and expect to get paid a salary by the congregation when they go into the ministry?

 

I presently do not have my own church or radio or tv ministry. If I ever did I would darn sure make sure I could handle all of the financial responsibilities to operate the damn thing! If I couldn't afford to pay all the bills then I wouldn't start the ministry and I sure as hell would never quit my secular job. I would devote as much time to my secular job as necessary to pay all the ministry expenses.

 

Jesus and the apostle Paul both worked secular jobs. Neither one of them quit their secular jobs when they went into the ministry. Jesus worked hard at being a carpenter.

 

Even if someone offered to make a donation to my ministry I would not feel right about accepting it. I would tell them "no thanks. I'm not taking up offerings". If & when I start my own ministry I don't want any financial help from anybody because my ministry is my idea and therefore I alone am responsible for operating it.

 

So why are baptist preachers putting guilt trips on people to financially help with operating their ministries? Do they think they are better than Jesus who never asked for money when he started his ministry? Did Jesus ever ask for a salary during His ministry?

 

Religion is big business especially in America. I am amazed at how many people are willing to pay hundreds of dollars to listen to a preacher like Bill Wiese tell horror stories about hell. What the hell is wrong with this picture?

[Lovelybird]

chris, if you have ministry, and if I feel your ministry is helping me and others, I would give you money even if you don't give me a guilty trip

[disgracian]

Hey Chris, you'd absolutely love Jesse Duplantis' Citation-X Project. Reading it again after all these years just makes my head spin from the sheer magnitude of the greed cloaked in...well, it's not really cloaked in anything. It's just "GIVE ME AN $18 MILLION DOLLAR JET" in big letters.

 

Cheers,

D.

[Tony T]

In all my years on this planet I have NEVER, EVER had one person ask me to give money to his or her ministry. Perhaps there have been a few people in the street who did this but they had some little gift to give in return. Of course, the TV evangelists do it all the time.

 

I don't think there's a problem here at all. In the very rare instances that a friend or stranger may ask you to give to his or her ministry, a very kind and swift NO is all that is needed.

 

You spent a lot of time preparing the original post in this thread. I'm wondering why it's such a great issue for you...I've lived longer than most people in this forum and it's never happened to me.

[disgracian]

Also, regarding these modern preachers asking for donations, as predicted by their own holy book, they can't serve both masters. It's no coincidence that, despite all sins being equal, they tend to almost exclusively go after fringe groups that they don't rely on for donations.

 

It's why they make so much of a fuss about homosexuality rather than, for example, adultery, which is far more common and far more damaging in terms of psychological damage and having broken families apart. But they wouldn't dare attack adultery with the same fervor and viciousness because they'd drive away half of their flock (the half that are divorced and/or remarried).

 

It's far more lucrative to demonise people who are different.

 

Cheers,

D.

[quankanne]

our bishop makes an appeal each year to the Catholics in our diocese to support the ministries that serve them, like religious education/catechism, pastoral ministries, vocations, evangelization, communications, etc. So yeah, as a reporter for the diocesan paper, my salary is very much dependent on what people give, and no, I see it any differently than when I worked for secular papers and advertising revenue and subscriptions paid for my salary. It's the way things work. And if you really think about it, you pay someone's salary when you contract their services or buy the products they help create.

 

seeking to better help people come to know God through evangelization efforts (and asking for support) isn't a negative thing; pimping the cause IS.

 

Most churches will not welcome you to their potluck dinners unless you have given money to them. Their food is not free.

 

please look up the word "potluck." When a group offers a potluck dinner and invites others to join it, it's not because they're looking for money, but because they offer fellowship. You are obviously mistaking "potluck" for "fundraising."

 

Also, regarding these modern preachers asking for donations, as predicted by their own holy book, they can't serve both masters. It's no coincidence that, despite all sins being equal, they tend to almost exclusively go after fringe groups that they don't rely on for donations.

 

D, I think the folks you're referring to can be considered false prophets … *snicker* looking for big profits!

[disgracian]

That must make mainstream Christianity full of false prophets then.

 

Cheers,

D.

[quankanne]

or parasites.

[Eve]

Very true bentnotbroken. There are dodgy people in every walk of life, not least the Church but lets not forget that much good is being done.. for example William Booth started out with a vision which became The Salvation Army and his Bank continues to go from strength to strength! It is good to see ethical banking in these dark days. Not all Christian ministries are bad! http://www.reliancebankltd.com/rbl/www_rbl.nsf/vw-dynamic-index/9DF646113111D50280257386005BD4F2?openDocument There are countless others I could mention.. I think if we look for bad we easily find it. Look for good - get involved in whatever way we can!Regards,Eve xx

[chris250]

My understanding if you are asked to give, doesn't mean you have to give. If you want to give, fine. If you don't fine again. I guess I don't see the point in lumping all Christians in one pot or all people who have ministeries in one pot. The person who serves meals out of their homes, has a ministry. Ministry means to give what is in need to those who are in need.

 

It doesn't always mean money. People in my community minister through community services, like tutoring for our youth, basketball leagues, dance organizations. Theser all minister to the needs of our community. We offer health fairs, and financial workshops(especially during tax season). As a Christian, I feel the need to help my community anyway that I can, and if their is a need, why shouldn't I give to someone else's ministry...to carry out the work of God.

 

I believe that I have a ministry and when I need help, I ask for it. And I have never been let down.

 

The problem is that most ministers will tell you that you don't have to give if you don't want to but they throw in a catch by saying that God is NOT going to bless your finances if you are not tithing or giving offerings to their ministry.

 

I would not ask for financial help because I would see it as a stumbling block. It could turn many people off from Christ. Even if my intentions for asking were good other people could still take it as manipulation or a guilt trip.

 

So it's not enough to tell people that they are not required to give. They have to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that they are under no pressure to give whatsoever.

 

The only way to do that in my opinion is to not ask for financial help in the first place. People will give if they want to give without me asking. Even then I still would not accept their donation.

 

There is a verse in the bible about not being a stumbling block to other people. Most people already have preconceived ideas that ministers of the gospel are only interested in taking their money. That's why asking for money can be a stumbling block.

 

So I just hope you tell your congregation that they are under no pressure to give. I just hope you give them assurance that God is not going to curse their finances if they don't give. I hope you don't manipulate them into giving by telling them that they are stealing from God if they don't give to your ministry.

[disgracian]

I think you're generalising a bit too much, Chris. Sure, the prosperity doctrine exists and it is disgusting, but it's not that prevalent. Having said that, passing the collection plate in full view of everybody may coerce some people into giving when they otherwise might not have, but it's pretty marginal.

 

Some churches actually do good things with the donations they receive and the emphasis on tithes or donations might simply be the result of trying to do as much as they can to help. You can't tar everybody with the same brush just because of a few charlatans in the ranks.

 

Cheers,

D.

[Mahatma]

I came to a realization recently.

 

When I first moved to Texas, we decided to find a new church. When we finally found one we liked, we were invited to talk to the preacher. Towards the end of our conversation, it seemed like we had connected pretty well and it felt pretty warm. Then the preacher asked "so... how much will you be donating?"

 

I always had a negative attitude towards religion and seemed to only see the ignorant Christians. The rude, greedy Christians. The know-it-alls. However, I finally caught myself on this to see that most Christians are like me and are very accepting of other beliefs.

 

Coming back to the whole financial support thing... things cost money. That is the bottom line.

[chris250]

I came to a realization recently.

 

When I first moved to Texas, we decided to find a new church. When we finally found one we liked, we were invited to talk to the preacher. Towards the end of our conversation, it seemed like we had connected pretty well and it felt pretty warm. Then the preacher asked "so... how much will you be donating?"

 

I always had a negative attitude towards religion and seemed to only see the ignorant Christians. The rude, greedy Christians. The know-it-alls. However, I finally caught myself on this to see that most Christians are like me and are very accepting of other beliefs.

 

Coming back to the whole financial support thing... things cost money. That is the bottom line.

 

I don't think anybody here is debating that things costs money. Sure there are expenses and bills that need to be paid to continue operating the ministry.

 

The real question is whether or not it should be the ministry owner's responsibility alone to pay for the expenses. I think it should. If the ministry is your idea then why wouldn't it be your responsibility alone to make sure it can continue to operate.

 

Another thing too is a lot of ministers panic when their ministry has to close down because they don't have enough money to pay the bills. It's not the end of the world.

 

I think that if a certain ministry has to close down then it was meant to happen. Everything has a season. God used that ministry to serve its purpose for which He intended and now it's time to move on to other adventures. Not all radio ministries are meant to stay on the air forever.

 

If I want to give money to charity or the homeless I can give it to these people directly and not to a church organization. God doesn't need our help to make sure any ministry stays alive to carry out the gospel. If He wants it to stay alive then it will happen and nothing on earth can stop it.

[quankanne]

If I want to give money to charity or the homeless I can give it to these people directly and not to a church organization. God doesn't need our help to make sure any ministry stays alive to carry out the gospel. If He wants it to stay alive then it will happen and nothing on earth can stop it.

 

and just how does He do this? By inspiring people to share what they've got, be it time, talent or treasure. Therefore, he *does* need our help to ensure things get done – I've often heard that we are God's hands and arms on this earth so that we can serve others in his honor. And that means supporting local ministry even if it's just the widow's mite.

 

I think you've got a valid squawk, but a weak argument, kiddo.

[chris250]

If I want to give money to charity or the homeless I can give it to these people directly and not to a church organization. God doesn't need our help to make sure any ministry stays alive to carry out the gospel. If He wants it to stay alive then it will happen and nothing on earth can stop it.

 

and just how does He do this? By inspiring people to share what they've got, be it time, talent or treasure. Therefore, he *does* need our help to ensure things get done – I've often heard that we are God's hands and arms on this earth so that we can serve others in his honor. And that means supporting local ministry even if it's just the widow's mite.

 

I think you've got a valid squawk, but a weak argument, kiddo.

 

I think we underestimate God's sovereignty a bit. If one person is too lazy or too scared to use their talents and gifts then God can always find someone else. We have a big God. He will use whatever means is necessary to get what He wants done.

 

Do you really believe He's counting on us to get things done? God will always find someone else if you are one to bury your talents.

[quankanne]

seems to me that you're saying that even God thinks people are interchangeable, that there's "always someone else" to get things done when he knows there are specific missions (if you will) that *only* you can do. Therefore, everyone counts ...

[chris250]

seems to me that you're saying that even God thinks people are interchangeable, that there's "always someone else" to get things done when he knows there are specific missions (if you will) that *only* you can do. Therefore, everyone counts ...

 

Yes everyone counts but I think this world would be far worse off than it is now if God was depending on us to pull ourselves up by our bootstraps to get things done that He wants to get done.

 

If you believe in free will then you'd have to believe that all the glory and credit goes to humanity instead of God. I'd like to believe that God alone gets the credit for keeping this world from going into chaos. If we all had free will then I don't think our world would have progressed.

 

Either way I don't think God is going to love me any less if I decide to waste my life by burying my talents. He's not going to hold it against me. God's more interested in you as a person than He is in what kind of service you can provide for Him.

 

If He's going to hold it against me that I didn't use my talents then how is He any different than our employers in the workplace? I would think that my relationship with God is more on a personal and intimate level than the relationship I have with my employer.

[chris250]

I have never heard my pastor say God want bless your finances if you don't donate. But Malachi does talk about robbing God of the 10% that he ask that you give of what he has already given to you. I am well aware that there are jack leg preachers out there looking for money only, but I believe that is in profession. You seem to box all Christians in the same package.

 

Well if that's what you believe then it's still a form of manipulation to teach that I'm stealing from God if I don't give my money to a church organization. Actually it's pretty arrogant to think that God needs our money when He owns the entire universe. This tithing business is no different than a phony financial investment. There's no guarantee you're going to get it back.

[LucreziaBorgia]

People give money to religious organizations because they feel it is a tangible way to express their beliefs, and to see that their money goes toward something that also expresses those beliefs.

[quankanne]

my husband initially kvetched about the $350 fee to file for an anullment through the church tribunal. Then I explained that the 10-page application he need to fill out and all the court documents that went with it still had to be processed by people, and the fee was to pay THEM for THEIR time and THEIR work, not get shuttled off to some slush fund for the church to party on.

 

people don't understand that even evangelization – spreading the Gospel message – takes money because of the realities involved. Got an office? Then you've got space and utilities to pay for, salaries for the staff manning that office, phone service, internet service, equipment and supplies to pay for, taxes (if you own said property) and city cervices to pay for, not to mention any surprise repairs that come up.

 

there are some leaders who milk the public, but there are also those who are on the up and up, and who deal honestly with the public. Money that supports their ministries is voluntary, even the suggested tithes. Taxes are mandatory. So go gripe about the government pissing away and stealing your hard earned money – they look you in the eye and tell you it's for your own good while promising to represent you. Then they do whatever the hell they want.

 

<end rant>

[Posco_Proudfoot]

Bottom line. Churches are run like businesses with the exception that they try to make a budget for the coming year based on what is contributed.

If you believe a church you attend is doing good what your church to prosper it is much easier. People who work for the church have to live. Most times the salaries of pastors make much lower for the amount of work they do and many services at the church are volunteer.

It is all non-profit. No one is walking away rich. Don't lunch a TV evangelist in with the 2 room church and determine they are the same.

[Posco_Proudfoot]

Exactly. I am from a relatively small congregation. And to watch my pastor sit at hospitals, go to funerals of members family all over the country, to attend seminars and retreats to make him a better pastor for his congregation. To attend events of his members of his congregation, weddings, graduations, athletic events. Those are all things that require time and dedication not money. He is a constantly encouraging us to reach out to each other because we are the church. Not the name or the building, the people. Even though we as a congregation, give to missions in different countries, have a food pantry, clothes closet, support a shelter and even pay utilities for those who need help, we as individuals are the church and we should be our brother's keeper.

The church I belong to does the same thing. It is also a megachurch (means more than 2000 members).

Now, this could be a giant signal for someone saying "Greedy" for the pastor. What people don't realize is pastor's are also doing tithe's to that very same church. This church also does maintenance on schools that are in the lower income part of town, the pantries, clothes, helped about 400 families whose husband or wife was in prison, put coats on children. A lot the physical work comes from church members volunteering their own time for a good cause.

[Moose]

But someone has to put in the plumbing people.....

 

My new Pastor and I had an arguement about this the other day. I tithe 10% of my salary, then I use a portion, (usually A LOT more than 10%) of my commissions to help others out.

 

Pastor says (Scripturally), we are to give 10% of all our earning on the first day of the week.

 

However, your gift or tithe isn't worth spit in a bucket if you're not giving joyfully.

 

IF you are TRULY saved, giving tithe to your Church would be an honor, and not a chore.....after all, it is used to further His Kingdom....

[quankanne]

Most times the salaries of pastors make much lower for the amount of work they do … No one is walking away rich.

 

very true – I have no idea what a colleague of mine with the same amount of time under his/her belt with a secular position would make, and journalism is not a high-paying job to begin with. I don't stay because of any "big bucks," but because I'm doing work I believe in and the benefits are much more suitable to my needs than what I used to have at secular outfits. And you just can't beat that, in my book.

[chris250]

If evangelism costs money that you cannot afford then why not cut back on your evangelism or stop completely until such time that you can afford to pay it off?

 

There is always the option of closing down the ministry. It's not the end of the world.