Is withdraw from the world Spirituality?

[Lovelybird]

I read a verse in Bible, was confused about "withdraw from the world" or "live in the world".

 

1Corinthisans 3:1 If then you have been raised with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.

2 Set your minds on things that are above, not on things that are on earth

 

How many of you think that "seek the things that are above, not that are on earth" means asceticism or withdraw from the world?

 

 

then I read some interesting commentary about this verse

In the first two chapters of this Bible book, Paul set out truths which contradict the notions of those later known as Gnostics. This heresy taught that the material was evil, and the immaterial good. God, good and spiritual, was isolated from the universe in which we live by His own moral character and nature. Jesus, in this system, was either an unreal shadow or a lower-order of angelic being.

Paul directly confronted this view. Jesus is God in the flesh. And it was in His real human body through death in that body that Jesus accomplished the greatest of all spiritual tasks: our redemption. What is more, Jesus Himself is the Creator of both material and immaterial worlds, and holds authority over each. We Christians find our fulfillment in Jesus and in relationship with Him. There is no “higher knowledge” than knowing Jesus, and no spiritual secrets that are not unveiled in Him.

Now, in Colossians 3, Paul applied these basic truths to our Christian lives. Spirituality is not withdrawal from this world, but is living Jesus’ life in the world. What a privilege to help our group members discover the characteristics of true spirituality, and to help each see how he or she can live in intimate union with Jesus.

 

 

 

 

How does a human being find fullness of life? How do we experience the reality of Christ and know the meaning of a Spirit-filled life?

Many suggestions have been made. Many different descriptions of true spirituality and how to find it have been given. Often the prescription promises a shortcut: immediate attainment of a higher kind of life.

 

Among these ways are:

 

The special experience. As the result of one dramatic moment, the Holy Spirit’s power will flow unimpeded for the rest of your life, eradicating sin and lifting you to fullness.

This is an attractive view. The change is sudden. It is clearly supernatural; God’s work alone. And it promises freedom from the nagging tensions that have been our lot. No more struggle! Just surrender and be lifted to a higher plane.

We must be careful not to dismiss special experiences altogether. God sometimes brings us to crisis confrontations with Himself, and these result in valid spiritual breakthroughs. But we deceive ourselves if we expect any such experience to confer instant sainthood.

 

Special knowledge. This also seems attractive, appealing to our feeling that there must be something more to the simple message of Christ than meets the eye. Sometimes we expect special knowledge from learning to read the Hebrew and Greek of the original biblical documents. Sometimes it is a special key to interpreting the Bible, a key not given to the ignorant masses who take Scripture in its plain sense. Sometimes it is theosophy or some modern cult that imposes a system so like Gnosticism on Scripture that they are almost indistinguishable.

And how attractive it is to believe that once I know the hidden thing, I will have fullness. How attractive to feel that knowledge sets me above others and brings me closer to God.

 

Ritual observance. Here fullness is attained by careful keeping of prescribed rituals and taboos. We refrain from eating meat, keep Sunday or the Sabbath, guard our behavior, and keep everything within prescribed rules. Soon we have developed lists and traditions defining every situation and telling us what pleases God.

This is probably the least satisfactory approach. Our attention to details leads us further and further from relationships with others. Even fellowship with Christ is set aside in our commitment to rules. But the feeling that life is empty will always intrude.

 

Self-denial. This approach will always tempt those who are ascetically inclined. Pushing down desires, controlling the body by severe fasting or punishment, and being suspicious of anything associated with the material world has a strange appeal. It seems so spiritual! Escape from life to an ethereal plane!

The Gnostics chose to do so. Spirituality had to be found beyond the world of things and persons. And so the body and desires associated with this world had to be denied.

It is true that Paul told the Colossians to “put to death, therefore, what belongs to your earthly nature” (3:5). The Christian life has always been a walk of discipline. But it is not discipline for discipline’s sake; we deny ourselves certain things because Christ has called us to something so much better.

 

Licentiousness. This obviously is not a way to find spiritual fullness—but some have reasoned that since our bodies are part of the evil material universe, it doesn’t matter what they do. They can indulge every fleshly desire, for whatever is done cannot contaminate the spiritual element within. Spiritual reality is found through special knowledge, subjective experience, or the ritual observations totally divorced from daily life.

We have something of this same notion today—the idea that what we do on weekdays, in business, or other relationships has nothing to do with Sunday faith. Spirituality is pressed into a single compartment and never integrated into our total experience.

 

...

In contrast to these shortcuts, Paul encouraged us to think in terms of gradual renewal and growth.

....

As we apply what God has willed to our everyday lives, wisely letting God’s Word guide our choices, we will live lives that are truly worthy of the Lord

 

 

 

 

Richards, Larry ; Richards, Lawrence O.: The Teacher's Commentary. Wheaton, Ill. : Victor Books, 1987, S. 945

[Geishawhelk]

In Buddhism, this is called "The Realisation of Detachment."

 

The Buddha taught this, 500 years before Christ did.

I understand this.

 

I'm not trying to say this out of one-upmanship, by the way.

I just mean that it was a Buddhist teaching before the Bible was composed.

 

That's all.

 

_/l\_

[chris250]

I think what Paul is saying is to look at your life from an eternal perspective. As a matter of fact I think that having an eternal perspective on things is the only way to avoid being so heavenly minded that you are no earthly good.

 

The more I believe that I have a short time in this existence is all the more reason to do something with my life that will make a positive difference in society. I'm not going to be here forever so I might as well make the most of the time I have.

[Lovelybird]

Yes, buddist focus on "detachment", but here I question this "withdraw from living", it is in a negative light in my post.

 

It can be better explained by using this author's words

 

As we apply what God has willed to our everyday lives, wisely letting God’s Word guide our choices, we will live lives that are truly worthy of the Lord.

In this process God Himself will be actively at work within and through us, producing the Holy Spirit’s fruit in our personalities even as we are active in every good work.

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Now, in Colossians 3, Paul applied these basic truths to our Christian lives. Spirituality is not withdrawal from this world, but is living Jesus’ life in the world.

[Geishawhelk]

Many people, such as monks and nuns "withdraw from the world" because in doing so they devote themselves entirely to the glory of their object of worship. Or the scriptures.

There is nothing wrong with withdrawing form the world provided it is done with Right view and Right Intention.

Some seek seclusion as a means of hiding away.

Some seek seclusion as a means of running away.

 

Whatever withdrawing we do, we have to understand why precisely we're doing it, and whether the amount of effort is worth the sacrifices we must inevitably make.

 

"Seeking things that are above", doesn't necessarily mean withdrawing.

it means making God your priority.

It is almost impossible to completely withdraw from the world, in isolation.

Even other devotees, on a retreat, or in a convent or monastery are part of the world in the sense that you interact with them, and are company, companionship and a community of sorts.

 

Seeking things that are above, means seeing the temporary nature of this world, but knowing that what you practice is a constant. It rises head and shoulders above all the eartly pleasures and sufferings, and is always available. So it is to that, that we should look for comfort, and shelter.

[disgracian]

Also, what good can you do for the world while locked away in seclusion?

 

Cheers,

D.

[Geishawhelk]

Some monasteries work for the good of the community. They just observe solitude, but not necessarily complete isolation.

They might provide food, support or even artefacts for others to sell on, and skills that might be useful. But they simply don't socialise.

They in turn rely on others for sustenance and help to continue their ministry.

[Eve]

My brother and I have concluded that its all about which side of the brain a person uses. Left brain = reality based. Right brain = spirituality. Conflict comes if we have do not have balance between the two spheres. Hence, a person can be spiritual but lack logic to navigate relationships, especially how they are perceived by others etc. Or can be so caught up in 'the world' that they cannot connect with their intuition (which we discussed as the gateway to wisdom, learning and perception of who we are within God plan) Regards,Eve xx

[Geishawhelk]

There's a whole lot more goes on in the cerebral hemispheres, so I don't, somehow, think it's quite as simple as that.....

Though it's a nice idea.

[disgracian]

That would imply a correlation between how religious somebody is and whether they're left- or right-handed. I somehow think the real basis for a person's inclination towards spirituality is their own experiences.

 

Cheers,

D.

[Mahatma]

Just about anyone who completely withdraws from society will go insane. The idea is to detach yourself from monotonous habitual life. The more detached you are, the more time you have to focus on your spirituality.

 

I look at American society and see such a problem. People live around their job here. If anyone has free time, they HAVE to find something to do for entertainment. As a young adult, if I am on a break from school or summer, it is expected here to get a job. It is expected that people go somewhere for vacation. It is expected you do something. Where do people have a time to be spiritual? People seem to just go to church Sunday and think that is enough. If you go to church, and then go home and do not really think about what you have just learned, what was the point? I believe some people do go home and ponder about what they had just been taught, but I highly doubt the majority do.

 

I have only considered myself a Buddhist for two years, but I have meditated since I was eight. Even at that young of an age, I was spending time thinking about life, religion, and death. I found out how relaxing it was and what a great help it was to calm my mind. However, how many people actually set aside some time to really dive into their thoughts and think about religion? I spend *maybe* two hours a day thinking about spirituality and working on my own, and I know I have such a long way to go. I often wonder how I will make the time for things like a career, a wife, family, and my beliefs. I think if you have all of these things, you can not become proficient at any of them.

 

This is why I think withdraw could be useful. A sort of detachment is necessary to give yourself the space, time and viewpoint to become more spiritual.

[quankanne]

what good can you do for the world while locked away in seclusion?

 

pray, baby, pray!

 

as geishawhelk points out, members of monasteries still have to do some kind of work to support themselves, but to live a cloistered life means they can cut out some of the "static" life provides and focus on God as mahatma writes: "A sort of detachment is necessary to give yourself the space, time and viewpoint to become more spiritual."

 

frankly, it's a good feeling knowing there is someone out there whose faith is lived out that simply, because it gives us a model for striving for the same kind of relationship with God. Well, provided you believe in Him!

[disgracian]

Except prayer does nothing except make the person praying feel good about themselves for doing it. Of course you'll argue, but since you said in another thread that god needs us to be "his hands" (and therefore do all the work) and there is no study ever undertaken that has shown prayer to be anything other than a placebo, I am pretty much correct in my assertion.

 

People who don't go into seclusion also usually have to do some kind of work to support themselves as well, so the net change is more or less zero.

 

Cheers,

D.

[Storyrider]

Based on what I've learned, Christians are supposed to be "in the world" but not "of the world."

 

This means you walk among earthly things, but you understand yourself as primarily a spiritual being who is temporarily in a physical form.

[quankanne]

Except prayer does nothing except make the person praying feel good about themselves for doing it.

 

I don't know if "good" is the right word, because not all prayer is grounded in positive events, and not all prayer is intended to be about feeling good – it's more of a way to get to know yourself better in a sober state. I imagine booze and drugs and sex could achieve the same end, but they also tend to be roadblocks in that dialogue because then it becomes about THOSE things, and discovery of self.

 

someone told me that praying for others is like giving away fists full of honey – no matter how much you give, some of it still clings to you. Meaning, the change you're hoping to effect with your prayer for someone else brings about change in self, there's growth emotionally, mentally, spiritually. And that can never be a bad thing, you know?

 

no study ever undertaken that has shown prayer to be anything other than a placebo

 

maybe. But we can say the same things about booze and alcohol and sex. Because as much as we *believe* those things have an impact, they still are/can be roadblocks to self-discovery.

[disgracian]

Why are you trying to draw a comparison between prayer and booze, drugs and sex?

 

Cheers,

D.

[Lovelybird]

Geishawhelk, you have some good understandings

 

Oh, I really believe power of prayers, my prayers might saved people's lives