My Wife Cheated on Me

[vnqsh2001]

vnqsh,

 

She hasn't even come home yet. You are making a lot of decisions when you have not checked out how she acts. Its easy to say a lot of stuff on the phone.. You didn't answer whether your going to keylogger and var. I think you are seriously underestimating what a woman in the fog is like. You need to find out how she really feels about. She is able to lie to your face and not feel anything about it. I just can't believe you will set yourself up for it again. You are even rationalizing her having sex with another guy. You read her e-mails where she actually tells him that she loves him. You pulled the information out of her and a commitment (she lied) from her that she will break it off. Then she arranges to sleep with guy again (lies again). And you start rationalizing it. And she isn't even back from her attempted affair. I know there is a lot of sand in the middle but you don't have to stick your head in it. Are you still going to make her your hien a maker frau (cleaning woman). Or is all forgiven?

 

Atwitsend, it's not her that didn't come home. She went home that very night. I'm the one who got a new apartment. We haven't just been talking over the phone. She comes over to my place and we talk face to face almost every day, so I have been finding out as much as humanly possible.

 

Her old emails didn't say she loved her ex. That was for the guy she was chatting with online before we moved in together. She never met that guy in person. No, she is pretty emphatic that she wasn't in love with her ex-boyfriend. No, I never insisted that she break things off with her ex after discovering their text messages, she simply assured me that nothing was going to happen. There was nothing going on at the time but a few messages here and there, so I never said anything more about it.

 

If you're really trying to keep track of what she did, here is a numerical list.

 

1. She slept with her ex while she and I were dating. They never really had a definite break up. She simply stopped meeting him for a while.

2. She carried on an intense online affair with a man she never met while we were dating. That relationship faded away after she and I moved in together.

3. She chatted with and considered dating another man she never met. That also happened before we lived together.

4. She kept in contact with her ex throughout the years. He sometimes sent dirty messages which she said she simply ignored. This included a picture of his penis, which she immediately deleted. She only responded in a non-sexual way.

5. She began responding to some of his flirtations later. She had sex with her ex after several years of marriage with me. She thought it would just be a one time thing.

6. She had lunch with her ex two months later but did not have sex with him due to her physical condition.

7. She slept with him again one month after their lunch because she wanted a little more excitement.

8. She got caught with her ex a month after that, but ignored me and slept with him again anyway.

 

I'm not rationalizing her behavior. I'm just trying to be a rational person.

[atwitsend]

She is a serial cheater. She sleeps with this guy at ever opportunity. She has ZERO respect for you (but she does respect your bank account) her actions speak louder then words. You seem like a loving father and husband. And I hate to see good people get the shaft and get walked on by gold digging bitches (sorry. I get a angry at cheating moms. My mom was one)

[vnqsh2001]

She is a serial cheater. She sleeps with this guy at ever opportunity. She has ZERO respect for you (but she does respect your bank account) her actions speak louder then words. You seem like a loving father and husband. And I hate to see good people get the shaft and get walked on by gold digging bitches (sorry. I get a angry at cheating moms. My mom was one)

 

My wife has actually been a big help for me in matters of finance. I can't complain about that too much. It's at least partly due to her savvy that my bank account is as large as it is. So, as far as money and possessions go, what's mine is hers. I feel that I'd give it all up if only I could erase what happened though.

 

She didn't sleep with that guy at every opportunity. Like I said, there were several years that she did not. Now, she has to stop forever. I asked her how she feels about that, and she said she feels a small sense of relief to know that she has finally devoted herself to me 100%.

[atwitsend]

It's your marriage and I wish you luck. But I'm afraid we'll be chatting again in the future. Take care.

[vnqsh2001]

I've found that this discussion has helped me a lot. It's also helped me to read some other threads on this forum and get an idea of what other people are going through. I feel less lonely in my suffering.

 

At first, I felt a little uncomfortable at the angry responses people gave regarding my wife; then I realized something. I am finally able to focus on the expression of anger generated by others instead of feeling compelled to constantly express it myself. I'm able to look at things from a different perspective thanks to all of this. As a result, I feel a bit calmer.

[amerikajin]

vnq,

 

In no way am I trying to invalidate the input of others on this forum, some of whom have made rather blunt remarks. I understand that there's a lot of pain and hurt behind those comments, and they are using your wife as a surrogate because the person they really want to say that stuff to isn't around. But with all due respect, I think some of it is projecting emotion. I can neither agree nor disagree with their characterization of your wife, mainly because we don't know her -- only you do. You have to be the character judge.

 

I think what people are really trying to say is, don't be a doormat, and I would second that. You can give it another shot if you really think this can work, and maybe now that you've cleared the air a little bit, some aspects of the relationship might improve. But work together, and make it clear that she gets a second chance, but not a third or fourth.

 

Having said all that, I am also really impressed with the fact that you're not just looking at her, but you're even taking a look at your own behavior in the relationship. That must be incredibly difficult to do in a relationship, and yet, it's necessary. I think a lot of people who have been cheated on, while understandably hurt, simply refuse to look at their own behavior. As I have said before, cheating is usually seen as a way to get attention or strike back at some perceived injury inflicted by their partner. And I reiterate that there is absolutely no excuse for cheating - none. It's a terrible way to solve marital problems. But nevertheless, that's what people sometimes. It's perhaps remotely similar to when two lovers quarrel and one partner flies into a rage and tears up the house -- it's an inappropriate way to solve the problem, it's a mistake, but some people nevertheless do it. I think the way to deal with that is to let emotions calm down, sit down and talk, and see if things can be worked out. When I see some of the comments by people who immediately say "Divorce her. Leave her...." I honestly have to wonder about their own problem solving skills. It leads me to wonder whether they are too proud to acknowledge their own failures in a relationship. They look at the cheating and try to assume a position of moral superiority, and try to delegitimize their partner. I totally agree that cheating itself should be delegitimized, but not the person -- at least not outright. However improper the affair is, the adulterer may still yet have legitimate grievances. I'm impressed that you 'get it'.

[vnqsh2001]

vnq,

 

Having said all that, I am also really impressed with the fact that you're not just looking at her, but you're even taking a look at your own behavior in the relationship. That must be incredibly difficult to do in a relationship, and yet, it's necessary. I think a lot of people who have been cheated on, while understandably hurt, simply refuse to look at their own behavior. As I have said before, cheating is usually seen as a way to get attention or strike back at some perceived injury inflicted by their partner. And I reiterate that there is absolutely no excuse for cheating - none. It's a terrible way to solve marital problems. But nevertheless, that's what people sometimes. It's perhaps remotely similar to when two lovers quarrel and one partner flies into a rage and tears up the house -- it's an inappropriate way to solve the problem, it's a mistake, but some people nevertheless do it. I think the way to deal with that is to let emotions calm down, sit down and talk, and see if things can be worked out. When I see some of the comments by people who immediately say "Divorce her. Leave her...." I honestly have to wonder about their own problem solving skills. It leads me to wonder whether they are too proud to acknowledge their own failures in a relationship. They look at the cheating and try to assume a position of moral superiority, and try to delegitimize their partner. I totally agree that cheating itself should be delegitimized, but not the person -- at least not outright. However improper the affair is, the adulterer may still yet have legitimate grievances. I'm impressed that you 'get it'.

 

You know a few months later, I told her, "I get it. I get the fact that I should have been spending more quality time with you and our child. We should have been eating dinner together more often. We should have been taking our child to the zoo or the museum more often. I really do see that now. But the reason I see that is because we've been talking about these issues. If anything, having an affair just caused us to drift apart and then split us up later. It was the wrong way to express your dissatisfaction. If you felt I wasn't getting it, then all you had to do was keep talking about it without relent. Don't give up communicating if it's really something important. Just keep trying and eventually I will see your point."

 

The problem was that she had grievances, but she gave up on trying to communicate them. She decided to act out on them instead, which only messed things up further.

[amerikajin]

The problem was that she had grievances, but she gave up on trying to communicate them. She decided to act out on them instead, which only messed things up further.

 

That's how so many affairs start. By no means are all affairs like this, but many of them share the same origins as yours. People get married and then they end up going on about life as usual. They end up spending a lot of time at work because they gotta pay the bills. A kid comes into the picture. Someone feels lonely. Someone stops feeling valued. The couple doesn't seem to have as much time for each other as they used to. Individual needs seem unfulfilled. And voila...you have all of the right conditions for an affair. All you need is a third party who comes in and gives, if even for just a moment, some of what he/she believes they're missing at home.

 

The truth is, a lot of adulterers are actually good people. They're not monsters. I can understand why they're not too popular here on LS because it's a community of people who have been burned by adulterers, but it's not like we live in this world where we have only two types of people: cheaters and saints. We don't live in that world. We live in humanity, and humans are extremely complex creatures. Some people are better at handling communication and dealing with their personal issues than others. Cheaters aren't horrible people, they're just making horrible errors in judgment which inflict a lot of pain on the people they've vowed to respect and love for the rest of their lives.

[Darth Vader]

This may true but it still doesn't make it right. Besides, in my experience, most people who really want to have extramarital sex do not need an excuse.

 

 

That's most, not all. Apparently she's not one of the most.

[Darth Vader]

No, I'm well into the anger stage. I think I'm trying to move past it. I've already broken just about every stick of furniture in our old apartment. How much more angry should I get? How much longer should it go on? My voice is hoarse from shouting.

 

 

Ok, it sounds like you're there.

 

I don't see where you get that I'm taking blame for her affair. I think I stated pretty clearly that she is responsible for her own actions and that excuses are simply justifications that make offenders feel better. She did something totally wrong and she has no one to blame but herself. She made me feel bad and, yes, she should feel bad about it too. I haven't been letting her slide by with pathetic excuses. I've been forcing her to face the horror of what she did and it seems to be working.

 

Musta been one of the earlier posts that sounded or rather looked like you were.

[Darth Vader]

A lot of people cheat. Not all of them get caught. I suppose it's also possible that I was just better at catching my wives than other husbands. Before I met my current wife, I also had a relationship with a married woman. Her husband never found out about it. It makes you wonder, doesn't it?

 

As for there being better women than my wife out there, don't bet on it. I've shopped around quite a bit. More than most, actually.

 

 

Now that IS scary! No wonder more and more men are saying forget marriage!

[Darth Vader]

Exactly. And welcome back Darth, haven't seen ya in a while.

 

 

You know how it is, with all the interviews, gaming promotions, etc. Keeps me really busy!

[Darth Vader]

Thanks. You know, I mentioned to my wife that I'd started talking to some people on a forum. She asked if she could read some of the comments. I allowed her to see what you people have been saying about her. I figured that was only fair. She didn't say much except that nobody on this site really knows her. She felt that a lot of people simply judged her without any thought or consideration of who she is as an individual.

 

She was particularly interested in your responses Amerikajin, which shouldn't surprise me because I was too. There is a lot of wisdom and experience apparent in your words; not just blind emotion.

 

 

Many people say the Judgemental phrase, because they don't want to accept the consequences or responsibility of their actions. The same thing she said: without any thought or consideration of who you are as an individual, can or should be said about her, and her actions towards you.

 

Basically, that's a damage control tactic. She's still unwilling to accept responsibility. In my point of view.

[vnqsh2001]

That's most, not all. Apparently she's not one of the most.

 

People don't need excuses to have an affairs, but they usually find plenty of them. Once you catch somebody with their hand in the cookie jar, they seem to have an endless supply of excuses already prepared.

 

You didn't listen to me. I tried to talk to you, but I couldn't get through to you. You didn't give me enough attention. You pressured me for too much sex, so it wasn't fun anymore. You weren't there for me when I needed you. I wanted to shake up our marriage and make it better. I was just trying to get your attention. Things got boring. I thought you might be thinking of leaving me. I thought you didn't love me anymore. I was unhappy. I went a little crazy. I didn't mean to hurt you like this. I've heard all of these excuses and much more!

 

I've almost heard it all. But, you know what? Each one is just about as pathetic as the next. They all mean nothing.

 

If I came over to your house and killed your dog, what kind of excuse would justify that? I am betting that anything I told you would just sound like a bunch of meaningless words. They wouldn't erase the fact that I did a horrible thing simply because I chose to do it.

[vnqsh2001]

Many people say the Judgemental phrase, because they don't want to accept the consequences or responsibility of their actions. The same thing she said: without any thought or consideration of who you are as an individual, can or should be said about her, and her actions towards you.

 

Basically, that's a damage control tactic. She's still unwilling to accept responsibility. In my point of view.

 

Yes, she admitted that she acted without any thought or care for my feelings. She feels that was probably the biggest mistake she made.

 

No, I don't think it's just damage control. I think she is right to some extent. As Amer mentioned, a lot of people seem to be projecting their own experiences on my own. They don't really know her personally.

[vnqsh2001]

That's how so many affairs start. By no means are all affairs like this, but many of them share the same origins as yours. People get married and then they end up going on about life as usual. They end up spending a lot of time at work because they gotta pay the bills. A kid comes into the picture. Someone feels lonely. Someone stops feeling valued. The couple doesn't seem to have as much time for each other as they used to. Individual needs seem unfulfilled. And voila...you have all of the right conditions for an affair. All you need is a third party who comes in and gives, if even for just a moment, some of what he/she believes they're missing at home.

 

The truth is, a lot of adulterers are actually good people. They're not monsters. I can understand why they're not too popular here on LS because it's a community of people who have been burned by adulterers, but it's not like we live in this world where we have only two types of people: cheaters and saints. We don't live in that world. We live in humanity, and humans are extremely complex creatures. Some people are better at handling communication and dealing with their personal issues than others. Cheaters aren't horrible people, they're just making horrible errors in judgment which inflict a lot of pain on the people they've vowed to respect and love for the rest of their lives.

 

The ironic thing is that I found myself having the same thoughts I had last time this happened. When someone asked me if my wife might be having an affair I said no. She doesn't even enjoy sex all that much anymore. Why would she have an affair? Besides, her morals are too high to do something like that. She loves me too much to hurt me in that way. I should have realized the pattern in my thoughts much sooner.

 

People say I should just dump this sinner and find a saint. My question is, even if I wanted to dump her, how the heck do you find a saint in this day and age? Aren't we all sinners, more or less? It seems that we all make poor judgment calls every now and then.

[atwitsend]

No, not to find a saint. To find someone you deserve. As I have said. She is a serial cheater EA and PA. This has been happening since you before you were married. Exactly when do the blinders come off. You have forgiven her so many times. Do you want to spend the rest of your life with someone who will always cheat?

[vnqsh2001]

No, not to find a saint. To find someone you deserve. As I have said. She is a serial cheater EA and PA. This has been happening since you before you were married. Exactly when do the blinders come off. You have forgiven her so many times. Do you want to spend the rest of your life with someone who will always cheat?

 

Maybe Amerikajin is right then. Maybe we should work out a more swinging arrangement. Maybe I won't feel like I was so cheated then.

[atwitsend]

I don't think the answer is allowing other men to plow your wife. While you screw up someone elses marriage. Do you really think that is the answer?

[vnqsh2001]

I don't think the answer is allowing other men to plow your wife. While you screw up someone elses marriage. Do you really think that is the answer?

 

I don't think that was what I was saying at all.

 

Anyway, Amer's comment is worth a thought, at least.

[Darth Vader]

People don't need excuses to have an affairs, but they usually find plenty of them. Once you catch somebody with their hand in the cookie jar, they seem to have an endless supply of excuses already prepared.

 

You didn't listen to me. I tried to talk to you, but I couldn't get through to you. You didn't give me enough attention. You pressured me for too much sex, so it wasn't fun anymore. You weren't there for me when I needed you. I wanted to shake up our marriage and make it better. I was just trying to get your attention. Things got boring. I thought you might be thinking of leaving me. I thought you didn't love me anymore. I was unhappy. I went a little crazy. I didn't mean to hurt you like this. I've heard all of these excuses and much more!

 

I've almost heard it all. But, you know what? Each one is just about as pathetic as the next. They all mean nothing.

 

If I came over to your house and killed your dog, what kind of excuse would justify that? I am betting that anything I told you would just sound like a bunch of meaningless words. They wouldn't erase the fact that I did a horrible thing simply because I chose to do it.

 

 

Those exuses is part of what blameshifting is all about, she's still gaslighting you! That's what I'm seeing.

[Bryanp]

I had decided not to post anymore on this topic but I just can't help myself reading your last statement my friend. The fact that you would even consider a swinging lifestyle demonstrates how absolutely toxic your wife has been to you. She is now corrupting your core values and beliefs. You are contemplating demeaning your values and standards to satisfy the narcissitic character of your wife.

 

In addition, I simply do not buy your argument that there are no better woman out there anyway. I know this is a very poor analogy but it sounds like you are saying: Yes I am married to Stalin but at least it is not Hitler. You have begun to buy into her belief system which is based on serial emotional/physical cheating and constant lying and betrayal to you as a partner, spouse and a man. I am sorry but I have to keep coming back to the fact that day she knew you saw her with him and you were frantically calling her to return to you that day at lunch. Her response was to go and have sex with him while not answering your phone (which was probably a perverse thrill for her) and then returning home to you after she was completed screwing this guy. My friend you can put any type of spin you want on this but you know the truth about this. Only a woman with a broken moral compass and a selfish narcissitic attitude could have cared so little for her spouse. I do not buy the argument that all women are like this. You are wrong my friend. Her attitudes and beliefs are like a cancer that has begun to transform you into what she has become due to the fact that you are now considering a swinging lifestyle. What is that old saying: There is no one who is as blind as a person who refuses to see. Nevertheless I wish you the best.

[Darth Vader]

Yes, she admitted that she acted without any thought or care for my feelings. She feels that was probably the biggest mistake she made.

 

No, I don't think it's just damage control. I think she is right to some extent. As Amer mentioned, a lot of people seem to be projecting their own experiences on my own. They don't really know her personally.

 

 

Yeah, it sure looks like it to me. As far as projecting goes, do you realize that people who cheat follow the "exact" same characteristics as any other cheater, "oh it was my husband/wife", "if they would've done this or that", "it just happened", PLEASE! You don't just trip, fall and have sex with someone, it's intensional. There may be a few variations, such as pregers, or we're soulmates crap, but it's pretty much the same. Read other stories of cheating, they will mirror your wife's! As far as the why's go, well, I'm thinking that she just wanted a little strange, that what it boils down to.

[Darth Vader]

I had decided not to post anymore on this topic but I just can't help myself reading your last statement my friend. The fact that you would even consider a swinging lifestyle demonstrates how absolutely toxic your wife has been to you. She is now corrupting your core values and beliefs. You are contemplating demeaning your values and standards to satisfy the narcissitic character of your wife.

 

In addition, I simply do not buy your argument that there are no better woman out there anyway. I know this is a very poor analogy but it sounds like you are saying: Yes I am married to Stalin but at least it is not Hitler. You have begun to buy into her belief system which is based on serial emotional/physical cheating and constant lying and betrayal to you as a partner, spouse and a man. I am sorry but I have to keep coming back to the fact that day she knew you saw her with him and you were frantically calling her to return to you that day at lunch. Her response was to go and have sex with him while not answering your phone (which was probably a perverse thrill for her) and then returning home to you after she was completed screwing this guy. My friend you can put any type of spin you want on this but you know the truth about this. Only a woman with a broken moral compass and a selfish narcissitic attitude could have cared so little for her spouse. I do not buy the argument that all women are like this. You are wrong my friend. Her attitudes and beliefs are like a cancer that has begun to transform you into what she has become due to the fact that you are now considering a swinging lifestyle. What is that old saying: There is no one who is as blind as a person who refuses to see. Nevertheless I wish you the best.

 

 

Yupper, that sums it up, gotta agree with that! Here it is again, so you can read it twice!

[amerikajin]

Maybe Amerikajin is right then. Maybe we should work out a more swinging arrangement. Maybe I won't feel like I was so cheated then.

 

Just to clarify, swinging marriages are not something I would recommend. I was only throwing that out there in case you had decided that you would rather stay married irrespective of the circumstances. There are people out there who have swinging marriages, but they are very rare, and the ones that succeed are probably even fewer and farther in between.

 

Now, when I was in Japan, I saw a lot of marriages where there was a lot of extra marital sex, but it was done very discretely. Expectations are different here, though. I get the impression that couples don't have to know where their partners are every waking minute. I guess that kind of stuff works in Japan because couples spend so much time away from each other, almost to the point of having separate lives. It wouldn't seem strange if the husband stays out late at night. The husband typically wouldn't know that his wife is having sex with her guy friend in the daytime while he's at work. Usually, neither would ask about it or look into it either, not unless the affair was being paraded around in public to the point where other people started whispering about it and it got back to the betrayed spouse. But it's different here, obviously. The only way swinging would work is if you agreed to stay married for the sake of the kid and you both went out and had very discrete affairs or one-night stands. You'd basically just have to agree to be roommates and parents to your child. Is that really the kind of relationship you want? I know I've thrown that out there, but thinking about that situation hypothetically and actually living that reality are probably much different.