Reincarnation

[The Collector]

Ok Mr Collector.. this is just for you and noone else can open this link because you are 'The Collector' ..

 

Where you go from there is your choice. Maybe nowwhere, maybe somewhere..

 

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=HodyPRa7n0wC&pg=PA9&lpg=PA9&dq=child+study+reincarnation&source=web&ots=518KCbiIOt&sig=BYO2mGncoqbaqqhWmFwd8lLX5aw&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=6&ct=result

 

Regards,

Eve xx

 

I've read about children who claim to remember past lives. I don't think the evidence is compelling. Seems more like coincidences, which would occur if you have a country full of people believing in it and we only get to hear about the ones that are remarkably accurate by chance or someone has twisted the facts to make a better story.

 

There is also the explanation that there is often financial gain involved in a poor child or family trying to prove they are the reincarnation of a relative from a rich family.

 

Not being narrow-minded, but if reincarnation really did exist I'd expect either many more people to be able to recall their past lives, or nobody. The few cases that get reported seem to be in line with other phenomena that people want to believe in but lack good evidence - ghost stories, UFOs, the Virgin Mary appearing in Mexico, etc.

[Geishawhelk]

This is interesting.

I think it's worth the effort and answers your questions....

[The Collector]

This is interesting.

I think it's worth the effort and answers your questions....

 

Yup, good link. I'm reading a book about 'being in the Now' at the moment, I guess that's a bit Buddhist, right?

[Geishawhelk]

Eckhart Tolle?

 

If it's that one, yes, somewhat.

[The Collector]

Eckhart Tolle?

 

Yes. It's interesting.

[Geishawhelk]

I'm no expert, but if ever you want to discuss anything of that ilk, feel free to PM me.

[fral945]

Interesting concept. I’m agnostic, so I am a doubter about any form of afterlife or coming back in this life, but I’ve had situations in my life that make me wonder about the possibility of reincarnation.

 

The best example would be that I’ve been in certain situations in life where I got a strong sensation that I had been in the situation before (or occasionally I remember dreaming about that particular situation), even though I know for a fact I had never been in it (or in that place). It is especially apparent when I’ve been in a town, place, or building that I have never visited before. It can also be a person or a thing that produces this strong feeling of deja vu.

 

Every time I get the feeling, though, the result of the situation differs from how I remember it in my dreams (when I do recall it). Usually, though, it’s just a strong feeling of déjà vu, and I usually can't really figure out why. Hard to explain, but I admit it makes me wonder sometimes. Sometimes it seems like I’ve lived through certain segments of this life before but am living it differently. It doesn’t happen often enough to convince me to believe in reincarnation, but it does plant that seed of doubt and wonder.

 

Or it could just be my imagination.

[Fun9455]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mahatma

I have understood that you are reborn until you are enlightened. Re-birth is similar, however you do not retain things like personal characteristics or ideas, only your mind is the same.

 

Once you have reached enlightenment, you are reincarnated upon death.

 

I could be vastly wrong though.

 

You are.

According to Buddhist premise.

 

Geishwelk- I do not think that Mahatma is vastly wrong on this point

[Geishawhelk]

There are some schools that think this way, but this is the ethics of the school, not of Buddhism.

[Eve]

I've read about children who claim to remember past lives. I don't think the evidence is compelling. Seems more like coincidences, which would occur if you have a country full of people believing in it and we only get to hear about the ones that are remarkably accurate by chance or someone has twisted the facts to make a better story.

 

There is also the explanation that there is often financial gain involved in a poor child or family trying to prove they are the reincarnation of a relative from a rich family.

 

Not being narrow-minded, but if reincarnation really did exist I'd expect either many more people to be able to recall their past lives, or nobody. The few cases that get reported seem to be in line with other phenomena that people want to believe in but lack good evidence - ghost stories, UFOs, the Virgin Mary appearing in Mexico, etc.

 

Many studies show a that accounts by children tend to surpasse their socio- economic situations (which has made the whole thing more interesting for me) I have found accounts by children to be the most compelling .. especially regarding incidences of indepth knowledge of other languages, specific remembrances of people who have been traced and found to have lived within entirely different locations never visited in often different countries etc. I see this as beyond coincidence. Absolutely.

 

I have found adult accounts of reincarnation totally breath taking and has opened up a new slant on my perspective of others. Especially in terms of clinical practice. I am very glad that more professionals are taking into consideraton that maybe the problems of their clients are not entirely within the here and now and could be due to 'trace memories'. Obviously this is not everyones cup of tea but the 'release' that patients have received via regression therapies seems to be evidence enough.

 

Christian Gnosticism has been of great interest to me over the past few weeks but I will not have enough time to critically evaluate its teachings until later on in the year. I do however see a pattern forming, for example, their ideology of how we have become seperated from the knowledge of God our Creator is pretty interesting. Also I like the focus that there must be some level of committment and focus beyond what is of psychological value. You see, as interesting as I find Buddism, there is still no God for the Buddist which does not match my personal experience.

 

.. Interesting musings abound.

 

There is a TV programme on at the moment caled 'Around The World In 80 Faiths'. I am hoping to learn a lot from that too. It seems that reincarnation is a strong theme within many of our world faiths. The little known faiths interest me greatly!

 

Regards,

Eve xx

[Geishawhelk]

You see, as interesting as I find Buddism, there is still no God for the Buddist which does not match my personal experience.

 

Regards,

Eve xx

 

This is correct.

because you fall into the misconception that there either needs to be, or that if she or he exists, it's for a purpose.

[Eve]

No misconception Geisha. Just good old fashioned experience gained from simple observance!

 

Regards,

Eve xx

[Geishawhelk]

Sorry, don't buy it.

 

I wish you well, but Buddhism has taught me that Perception is often deception, and what can be taken for one thing and interpreted in one way, can just as easily be interpreted in another.

 

But if it makes you happy, that's what counts.

[Eve]

Geisah said, 'Sorry, don't buy it.

 

I wish you well, but Buddhism has taught me that Perception is often deception, and what can be taken for one thing and interpreted in one way, can just as easily be interpreted in another.

 

But if it makes you happy, that's what counts'.

 

Of course, I wish you well too!

 

Personally I consider perception to have both an earth bound range of philosphies, which exists primarily to devise legal and political systems .. then there is another sphere entirely based on genesis. When using the term genesis I mean creation, whether that be the creation of thought or will. I believe that interpretation can only go so far and then we encounter the ancient archetyptes which 'are' the original blueprints.

 

Not sure what you mean by deception? Unless you mean that faith and experiences of faith can be constructed rather than exist?

 

Regards,

Eve xx

[Geishawhelk]

Thanks Eve....

When I say "Perception is often Deception" I mean that no two people, even witnessing the same occurrence or phenomenon, will come back with exactly the same, identical description. Because the moment we 'perceive' something, whether it's a tangible or non-tangible concept, our immediate instinct and reaction, is to put our own slant or interpretation to it, and to fix it in our minds, when in fact we shouldn't be so dogmatic....

 

{This is evident for example, when taking statements from witnesses. All there, at the time of the incident, all observing, all seeing the same incident - but Police and rescue services have to piece together a sequence of events from differing statements, which individually may be promising, but taken all together can lead, actually, to confusion. }

 

When a period of time has passed, giving us a while to digest and evaluate our object of perception, then we have even more opportunity to fabricate and elaborate upon our own conclusion. We occasionally even build up a new interpretation or scenario, believing we are entrenching the Truth within our minds, but in fact adding new self-created information which actually serves to obscure the original notion.

 

AS a Buddhist, I would attest that there are the Four Noble Truths (called noble because they are completely irrefutable) and the Dhamma Seals (again, because there's no arguing against them.)

 

Everything else is open to study and interpretation, but should not be viewed as a constant immovable static Truth.

We should question and re-question everything constantly. Even if we believe initially, that we are convinced by it.

 

I hope that's sufficiently clarified!!

[Eve]

Thanks Eve....

When I say "Perception is often Deception" I mean that no two people, even witnessing the same occurrence or phenomenon, will come back with exactly the same, identical description. Because the moment we 'perceive' something, whether it's a tangible or non-tangible concept, our immediate instinct and reaction, is to put our own slant or interpretation to it, and to fix it in our minds, when in fact we shouldn't be so dogmatic....

 

{This is evident for example, when taking statements from witnesses. All there, at the time of the incident, all observing, all seeing the same incident - but Police and rescue services have to piece together a sequence of events from differing statements, which individually may be promising, but taken all together can lead, actually, to confusion. }

 

When a period of time has passed, giving us a while to digest and evaluate our object of perception, then we have even more opportunity to fabricate and elaborate upon our own conclusion. We occasionally even build up a new interpretation or scenario, believing we are entrenching the Truth within our minds, but in fact adding new self-created information which actually serves to obscure the original notion.

 

AS a Buddhist, I would attest that there are the Four Noble Truths (called noble because they are completely irrefutable) and the Dhamma Seals (again, because there's no arguing against them.)

 

Everything else is open to study and interpretation, but should not be viewed as a constant immovable static Truth.

We should question and re-question everything constantly. Even if we believe initially, that we are convinced by it.

 

I hope that's sufficiently clarified!!

 

Potent points to make because my Hubby wants a back rub and it is past 12am already.. work tomorrow calls, especially as I have a clinical supervision for which I have spent hours preparing for at the weekend.

 

. Perception being deception. Agreed that indoctrination can result in a fractured view. Same also within perception of no God.

 

. Eye witness accounts. My belief in there being another possible 'thing' which can be added to perception, without conscious awareness. Brief story of experience with friend who is of another faith. We both perceived routes via a 'spiritual locus'.. I dont know what this 'spiritual locus' is in its entirety. I know when it is operating within me and around me and I am intrigued by it. It has no badness within it and is seperate from 'me'. Thus a need to seperate what is psychological and spiritual abounds within me.

 

. A need to respect what is wise from what is learned.. a notion of God being the only reality.

 

. Finally a need to always empty myself of everything I think I know. This state compared to the views of experts in reincarnation who assert that we spend one third of our lives in sleep because this is somehow connected to this 'other side' thing they speak about. I can relate to this place via personal experiences.

 

. Final quick note about 'The Towers of Babel', within The Old Testament and Christian gnosticism. Maybe there is sense in language being confused so that humans cannot ultimately assign truth from a wholey psychological basis?

 

 

Sorry about the brief response. I am busy now until the summer because of the post grad thing at Uni..

 

Regards,

Eve xx

[bhweller]

I believe in Karma at this point in my life. As far as the bible is concerned, it does not cover the majority of the life of Jesus. Basically everything from his early childhood up through his 20's is completely left as a mystery although there are clues.

[Weird]

I have read a page where it implies that you are given the choice to reincarnate or just stay in the "afterlife" if you want. Assuming we have souls and all that jazz then I hope that is true because I really do not want to come back to this planet as another person because this place bores me and humans are by and large, an evil species. I have an above average life in the sense I am financially secure, am smart, do not have any drama, etc so it isn't like I say this because my life is hard and full of crap. I simply have no desire to live another life here. My 30 years of life have been enough to see the gist of life and realize it isn't anything to want to repeat over and over. I realize some feel the opposite and that is cool and they can come back 94649 times if they want.

 

I'd much rather stay in the afterlife pimping it.

[Eve]

I have read a page where it implies that you are given the choice to reincarnate or just stay in the "afterlife" if you want. Assuming we have souls and all that jazz then I hope that is true because I really do not want to come back to this planet as another person because this place bores me and humans are by and large, an evil species. I have an above average life in the sense I am financially secure, am smart, do not have any drama, etc so it isn't like I say this because my life is hard and full of crap. I simply have no desire to live another life here. My 30 years of life have been enough to see the gist of life and realize it isn't anything to want to repeat over and over. I realize some feel the opposite and that is cool and they can come back 94649 times if they want.

 

I'd much rather stay in the afterlife pimping it.

 

Yeah, I read somewhere that we choose to come here after charting what will happen in order to learn specific things. What with presently being in the throes of supporting my eldest daughter to support her friend whose 6 year old sister died without any warning two days ago.. well, this has made me consider this theory to be highly flawed. Mainly because I simply cannot see the point in grief and loss.

 

If it is that the whole reincarnation thing is true, I want no part in returning to this sphere. There have been wonderful moments and I have overcome a lot and I do contribute to society (blah, blah, blah) but overall I would say that life is not a pleasant experience.

 

My feelings aside - the only way I can rationalise returning to this place is that maybe we return because those who we love decide to come back?

 

Regards,

Eve xx

[knaveman]

I completely forgot about this book until now for some reason. Its relevent. I don't actually believe any of what he wrote but it was an interesting read.http://www.amazon.com/Journey-Souls-Studies-Between-Lives/dp/1567184855/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1233085907&sr=8-1

[Eve]

I completely forgot about this book until now for some reason. Its relevent. I don't actually believe any of what he wrote but it was an interesting read.http://www.amazon.com/Journey-Souls-Studies-Between-Lives/dp/1567184855/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1233085907&sr=8-1

 

 

Looks interesting.. I like weird case studies.

 

My daughter and I have decided that reincarnation is a rubbish idea. I do see how people can be less evolved and probably need some form of 'awakening' before they 'get it', but cant see how we can progress when we cannot consciously access memories of other past lives, like normally. I mean, whats that about? Whats the point?

 

I cannot deny my faith because of what I have seen and experienced and have come to know. But really I feel that life is really unsatisfying in too many ways to keep coming back here. I want no part of that plan and if reincarnation is true this will definately be my last incarnation.

 

.. Still, I finished another book recently by Sylvia Browne and I have enjoyed the journey much muchly. I shall keep one of her sayings .. 'Love God, do good.. then shut up and go home'

 

Regards,

Eve xx

[knaveman]

My daughter and I have decided that reincarnation is a rubbish idea. I do see how people can be less evolved and probably need some form of 'awakening' before they 'get it', but cant see how we can progress when we cannot consciously access memories of other past lives, like normally. I mean, whats that about? Whats the point?

 

I cannot deny my faith because of what I have seen and experienced and have come to know. But really I feel that life is really unsatisfying in too many ways to keep coming back here. I want no part of that plan and if reincarnation is true this will definately be my last incarnation.

 

It's a shame you feel that way, but to each their own. Personally I love life and can't wait to do it all over again.

[Geishawhelk]

Me too! I want to keep coming back for as many encores as I can - until I get it right!

[Squirtal]

My belief is that we are in a waiting place and how we live our life decides what we are when we return.

We are waiting to go onto a bigger and better place, with a better quality of living.

Of course if you are a downright nasty person you end up being a cockroach in a dodgy restaurant that gets fumigated.

[chris250]

I don't find any comfort in the idea of reincarnation. To me that's just another form of a works salvation. Reincarnation disturbs me just as much as the doctrine of an eternal hell.

 

I believe that Jesus alone did whatever was necessary to make us all fit for heaven. There is no good news in reincarnation.

 

I do not believe that any future purging or anything else is necessary before we can reach heaven or what some others would like to call nirvana. I believe we are already with God now and there is nothing we need to overcome in order to be with Him.

 

When we finish this life we will experience eternal joy, comfort, & peace with God. I call it heaven because of the experience we'll have on the other side.

 

I'm already banking on the afterlife for my happiness. My hope is not in this world. I would hate to find out that I have come back here and be subject to depression all over again.

 

I'm not saying this life is all bad. There have been good experiences but would I want to come back to it? not really. I had good experiences in my high school days but would I want to do high school all over again? no way. Been there done that. I may miss certain aspects of this life but that doesn't mean I would want to repeat it.