Why is WS the one who is angry?

[Sands_of_time]

NFT,

 

Sorta scary to read your story. In that story, I was your wife. I figured, holding a decent paying job and a second income I had coming in was sufficient and I left everything else to my wife. She did all the laundry, cleaning, etc. (you get the point). She tried in vain to beg, plead, etc. to get me to change, but I had gone deaf to it. It didn't help that she started doing things on her own, as did I. It was only a matter of time before this situation came up.

 

Maybe I can give you some insight. In my case, my mom did everything for my dad, me, and my brothers and sisters. She was a SAHM and we were spoiled in that respect. It's no wonder I never really developed those skills. I'm not blaming my mom and I don't blame my wife. I blame myself for becoming deaf to the nagging. It took my wife to walk out of my life to lift me from the fog of the nagging. Consciously I knew she was saying it, but never took it to heart because I never developed the habit of doing it. My wife was doing exactly the same thing my mom was doing, she was doing all the chores and never letting me hang myself. Was it hard to do the chores? No. More of a mental block I guess you could say. Sometimes I would pitch in and do things, but usually not, because I knew that if I didn't do it, it would get done anyways.

 

Fast forward to now, when the wife left a couple months ago, guess who started finally taking care of themselves? Embarrassing? You bet. I made her so mad she finally just gave up and walked out and hasn't looked back since. The OM is only part of the problem, the other problem was me.

 

Don't blame yourself, you've done everything you can do when it comes to the chores. If my clothes had piled high enough, I guess I would've snapped out of it, but probably right back into my bad habit. Hope that gives you a little insight.

 

Thanks Mountain. Yes--once they get to the point of OM it's dooms day for the marriage. There is no going back. Although my dad cheated on my mom and my mom forgave him (almost 15 years ago). I asked her about 2 weeks ago if she "truly" forgave him and she said yes. So, it is possible to forgive but reading up on this it seems like it's a one in a thousand chance that a marriage survives. Bad odds if you ask me. Especially if no kids are involved.

 

Good for you for recognizing what you can work on for the next relationship. That can only be a benefit for you/us in our next relationship! One can feel like they are being taken advantage (could even lead to resentment afterwhile) when the other partner doesn't pitch in and swab the deck...etc.

[Mountains10]

Thanks Mountain. Yes--once they get to the point of OM it's dooms day for the marriage. There is no going back. Although my dad cheated on my mom and my mom forgave him (almost 15 years ago). I asked her about 2 weeks ago if she "truly" forgave him and she said yes. So, it is possible to forgive but reading up on this it seems like it's a one in a thousand chance that a marriage survives. Bad odds if you ask me. Especially if no kids are involved.

 

Good for you for recognizing what you can work on for the next relationship. That can only be a benefit for you/us in our next relationship! One can feel like they are being taken advantage (could even lead to resentment afterwhile) when the other partner doesn't pitch in and swab the deck...etc.

 

 

I don't even know if I'm working on it for the next relationship though. I started doing it because if I didn't no one else would and secondly, I thought she might see the changes, but too little too late. Now I just keep at it and some other objectives I taken on, so I can make personal changes to feel better about myself regardless of the status of this marriage, I need the changes to make me feel better.

[Sands_of_time]

I don't even know if I'm working on it for the next relationship though. I started doing it because if I didn't no one else would and secondly, I thought she might see the changes, but too little too late. Now I just keep at it and some other objectives I taken on, so I can make personal changes to feel better about myself regardless of the status of this marriage, I need the changes to make me feel better.

 

That's a good way to look at it. Do it for yourself. Recognizing it is the first step. Then act on what you have discovered about yourself. It seems in both our cases we came to a realization too late. Better late than never, it's been said...

[Angel1111]

Yeah, there's nothing like the way exes can push our buttons. That's funny how you hung up on her. I mean, what the heck? What was that supposed to mean that she never cheated on you? What a dumb thing for her to say.

[dead-dyke]

DeadD - good post. what would you have done differently about exposing/not exposing? I exposed the affair to her mother, sister and cousin--all whom she respects. But that was it. I feel I didn't expose it to enough people. What was your experience?

 

Thanks - I think I went overboard a bit though. I called her dad, and asked him to call his daughter and ask her what she and douche were doing that afternoon. I emailed her cousin, old family friends, mutual friends, and so on. I probably didn't have to take it that far, but that was what I did. Like I said, I was pissed. It was really dysfunctional.

 

Currently though, she barely see's her dad from what I hear. I just couldn't believe I drove her in that direction. And she did make me feel this was all my mess. After time, I realized what I did to contribute, and it wasn't 100% of the problem. But a little over a year later, I talked to her about my revelations, and she thanked me for seeing. But on the other hand, she still paid for the divorce, because I wasn't, and she had no interest to salvage it. To this day she has never issued an apology for her actions. That's when I told her to never contact me again, after her little episode. So that's something I'll never hear, and I don't think if anything would have been different it wouldn't have changed the outcome. When they are w/ someone that they 'love', nothing will change their mind. They seem to have to do it on their own. By then it's too late.

 

So in retrospect, I don't know what I should have done. At least I was able to put the idea into everyones head about our sep/div. Yeah, even my own family was wondering if I'd gotten a screw loose along the way. But at least on my side, she proved me right w/ her television debut. They both confirmed what I told everyone over a year prior. So it's pretty bad that someone screws you over, and even your own family is hesitant to believe you. Even if I've never been one to embelish, or make crap up. It still took hard evidence to convince those close to me. From after which, people apologized for wondering if it was true.

 

Her people on the other side? Well she's had nothing but contact w/ them to justify her actions. Who knows what she said to keep her halo on. And even if she wanted to fix it, my personal opinion is that I spilled too much to too many. She and I would look nuts to try and make it work. So like I said, I don't know if what I did was smart, but at least a sliver of truth got through.

[Sands_of_time]

Thanks - So in retrospect, I don't know what I should have done. At least I was able to put the idea into everyones head about our sep/div. Yeah, even my own family was wondering if I'd gotten a screw loose along the way. But at least on my side, she proved me right w/ her television debut. They both confirmed what I told everyone over a year prior. So it's pretty bad that someone screws you over, and even your own family is hesitant to believe you. Even if I've never been one to embelish, or make crap up. It still took hard evidence to convince those close to me. From after which, people apologized for wondering if it was true.

 

Ouch DD. They didn't believe you at first? To even discuss that your spouse is having an affair should raise all sorts of red flags and for them not to believe you just blows my mind.

 

I was trying to find information on how to get the WS to admit to having the affair. Mine STBXW teeters back and forth between, "I didn't do anything wrong" to "I am so sorry I reached out to an ex. I have been struggling with that for quite some time." The last explanation I got was she was/is doing nothing wrong.

 

Has anyone ever had a WS admit to the affair?

[dead-dyke]

I know mine hasn't - which is why she believes I don't need an apology. 'They're just friends' to this day. Even caught red handed.

 

In regards to my family being hesitant, well - It's likely the way I behaved. I was so pissed off, the shock didn't hit me for 2 days. That's when the severe depression started. I was just a little, lets say, *off the wall*. So while they knew something was up, especially because she was attempting damage control, the two stories wern't jiving. I guess had I been on the outside looking in, I'd have thought - whoa.

 

 

P.S. I'm all better now.

[Sands_of_time]

I know mine hasn't - which is why she believes I don't need an apology. 'They're just friends' to this day. Even caught red handed.

 

In regards to my family being hesitant, well - It's likely the way I behaved. I was so pissed off, the shock didn't hit me for 2 days. That's when the severe depression started. I was just a little, lets say, *off the wall*. So while they knew something was up, especially because she was attempting damage control, the two stories wern't jiving. I guess had I been on the outside looking in, I'd have thought - whoa. P.S. I'm all better now.

 

DD- glad you are better. I know about the depression thing. I can see how easy it would be for someone to go Nutzo over something like this. It's such a shot to the psyche. I know I had my faults and I wasn't perfect but to be treated like this is unreal.

 

My STBXW is now on a rampage. The last couple of days she tried contacting me and got increasingly aggressive when I didn't respond right away. Today she is threatening to go to a lawyer (we agreed to do the divorce without lawyers) if I don't respond to her email by Friday. In her email she wanted to know if I would agree to file our taxes jointly. It's too bad how this is ending...

[dead-dyke]

I'm sorry to hear the way she is behaving. I don't know what it is, but on top of one of the ultimate betrayals, they feel they are going to prove to you not to mess w/ them. It's really unfortunate they take this stance, too. They shut you out, and if that isn't enough, they hit you full bore w/ everything at their disposal. Very unfortunate.

 

I don't know what the future holds, but if they had a conscience, they must realize that there are no winners, only losers. But, I've been wrong on more than one occasion, despite what everyone has told you.(heh) I would love to get into their heads, that's for sure. The process of thought (including both sexes) for the WS, has to be so convoluted, it's beyond comprehension.

 

As far as the email? I wish I could give you solid advice, but in reality, I'm still a newb. Maybe some of the more experianced on the battlefield will chime in..... Hopefully.

[Mountains10]

DD- glad you are better. I know about the depression thing. I can see how easy it would be for someone to go Nutzo over something like this. It's such a shot to the psyche. I know I had my faults and I wasn't perfect but to be treated like this is unreal.

 

My STBXW is now on a rampage. The last couple of days she tried contacting me and got increasingly aggressive when I didn't respond right away. Today she is threatening to go to a lawyer (we agreed to do the divorce without lawyers) if I don't respond to her email by Friday. In her email she wanted to know if I would agree to file our taxes jointly. It's too bad how this is ending...

 

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but mine is doing the same thing, but not threatening lawyers though. I have 'email only' NC with her, and 3 days into this 2nd attempt at NC, she's already sending me whacky emails. I wouldn't give into the ultimatums, if I were you. I've tried ultimatums with my stbxw in the past and she never went for them, so my advice to you would be, why is she threatening you if she was going to do it? If she was going to do it, she'd have done it already. Besides, if you give into the ultimatums NFT, I believe you will become a doormat like I've been before NC. I just don't want to see you give into her, you play by your rules, not the other way around.

[Sands_of_time]

Don't mean to hijack the thread, but mine is doing the same thing, but not threatening lawyers though. I have 'email only' NC with her, and 3 days into this 2nd attempt at NC, she's already sending me whacky emails. I wouldn't give into the ultimatums, if I were you. I've tried ultimatums with my stbxw in the past and she never went for them, so my advice to you would be, why is she threatening you if she was going to do it? If she was going to do it, she'd have done it already. Besides, if you give into the ultimatums NFT, I believe you will become a doormat like I've been before NC. I just don't want to see you give into her, you play by your rules, not the other way around.

 

I'm just confused as sh*t. She cheated, she left and I'm the devil. Not ONCE have I gone below the belt or anywhere near. She has tried to draw me into fights about 100 different times and each time I "disarm" the b*mb she is lobbing. I have so many b*mbs in my basement it's beginning to look like an armory.

 

Most of the time I don't respond to her right away because my first response is an emotional one...something like this: "so you cheated and pissed all over me, yourself and the instition of marriage and destroyed our family? I hate you with the passion of a thousand burning suns. Oh, and by the way, let's file jointly. Talk to you soon."

 

I think if I simply respond to her with a short and to the point, "Yes, let's file our taxes jointly" and leave it at that, it might be the best route to go. I would rather not go the lawyer route. Or, is she just talking out her azz about the lawyer? If she wanted to go that route wouldn't she have done it by now?

[Mountains10]

I'm just confused as sh*t. She cheated, she left and I'm the devil. Not ONCE have I gone below the belt or anywhere near. She has tried to draw me into fights about 100 different times and each time I "disarm" the b*mb she is lobbing. I have so many b*mbs in my basement it's beginning to look like an armory.

 

Most of the time I don't respond to her right away because my first response is an emotional one...something like this: "so you cheated and pissed all over me, yourself and the instition of marriage and destroyed our family? I hate you with the passion of a thousand burning suns. Oh, and by the way, let's file jointly. Talk to you soon."

 

I think if I simply respond to her with a short and to the point, "Yes, let's file our taxes jointly" and leave it at that, it might be the best route to go. I would rather not go the lawyer route. Or, is she just talking out her azz about the lawyer? If she wanted to go that route wouldn't she have done it by now?

 

I hear ya NFT, you know she has to put the blame back on you, it can't possibly be her fault that she's a cheating @#$, that would make too much sense logically. This is an emotional thing, so real logic doesn't apply to lala land for these women I guess.

 

I'm at the point just as you are, to keep the emails short and to the point. I don't feed those emotional things for her, she'll have to look elsewhere for emotional support. When I let my emotions get the best of me, I don't make logical decisions. Therefore, I cut contact, and the emotions go away, allowing me to make intelligent, informed decisions.

 

I guess she could be serious about the lawyers, who knows? You didn't do anything wrong, so why worry about it? I still wouldn't give into threats, it will show you as willing to go with the program and weak. What I've found out thru my experience, is, we are doing things on my terms, not hers. She isn't going to tell me when she's going to do something, she's the one who left and now I'm in charge of my situation. I call my shots now and no one's going to tell me otherwise. If she decides to break the rules, then there will be consequences. This is real life, not some fantasy land that their minds are stuck in. Hope that helps.

[Sands_of_time]

I hear ya NFT, you know she has to put the blame back on you, it can't possibly be her fault that she's a cheating @#$, that would make too much sense logically. This is an emotional thing, so real logic doesn't apply to lala land for these women I guess.

 

I'm at the point just as you are, to keep the emails short and to the point.

 

I guess she could be serious about the lawyers, who knows?

 

Thanks Mountain. Like another poster said a while back (SumDude?) it's like a playbook that they are going by. Totally predictable.

 

I do feel that I'm much stronger than I was last month. It seemed the first two months were almost unbearable. Month three is different. Not perfect, just different. But better. I am happy things are moving forward.

[Mountains10]

Thanks Mountain. Like another poster said a while back (SumDude?) it's like a playbook that they are going by. Totally predictable.

 

I do feel that I'm much stronger than I was last month. It seemed the first two months were almost unbearable. Month three is different. Not perfect, just different. But better. I am happy things are moving forward.

 

I'm glad you are doing better, is it because of NC or just better overall?

[Sands_of_time]

I'm glad you are doing better, is it because of NC or just better overall?

 

I think it's NC that is doing it. If the "drug" isn't around then my mind has an easier time wrapping itself around the problem. NC, NC, NC...all the way.

 

I responded to her email tonight about our taxes and here was my response:

 

 

Her name here,

 

My intentions have never changed with regards to filing taxes. If you re-read my email you'll see that all I was doing was asking you what you were planning on doing. When my mom and dad divorced one of them chose to file separately. You and I have never talked about how we were going to do taxes as you mentioned earlier (if so, you'll have to send me the email of our conversation). I am OK with filing jointly and always have been.

 

With regards to a stimulus we are not eligible for one as far as I know. That's only for people who didnt't get one this past summer. Even if we were eligible, I would never take any part of it that wasn't mine. I am not an untrustworthy person. I never have been and I don't plan on starting now. I am not perfect but it is not in my character to compromise my integrity.

 

My name here

[Mountains10]

I think it's NC that is doing it. If the "drug" isn't around then my mind has an easier time wrapping itself around the problem. NC, NC, NC...all the way.

 

I responded to her email tonight about our taxes and here was my response:

 

 

Her name here,

 

My intentions have never changed with regards to filing taxes. If you re-read my email you'll see that all I was doing was asking you what you were planning on doing. When my mom and dad divorced one of them chose to file separately. You and I have never talked about how we were going to do taxes as you mentioned earlier (if so, you'll have to send me the email of our conversation). I am OK with filing jointly and always have been.

 

With regards to a stimulus we are not eligible for one as far as I know. That's only for people who didnt't get one this past summer. Even if we were eligible, I would never take any part of it that wasn't mine. I am not an untrustworthy person. I never have been and I don't plan on starting now. I am not perfect but it is not in my character to compromise my integrity.

 

My name here

 

So what happened with this Sands? I agree with the NC, if she's not willing to work on the marriage. It's hard to do, but it's the only way you can think logically w/o her cluttering your mind. I can only speak from my experience, but it's NC/LC as much as possible, in order to protect your emotions. Hope that helps my friend.

[dead-dyke]

I have a good question - how the hell did you change your SN? I'd love to change mine.

[Sands_of_time]

So what happened with this Sands? I agree with the NC, if she's not willing to work on the marriage. It's hard to do, but it's the only way you can think logically w/o her cluttering your mind. I can only speak from my experience, but it's NC/LC as much as possible, in order to protect your emotions. Hope that helps my friend.

 

I hear that. She ALWAYS got angry if I didn't pick up my phone when she called or if she couldn't get ahold of me right away. One of those control things for her I guess. Not responding to her right away really had a primary and secondary effect. Primarily it's for my own sanity. ANY contact just sends me to never never land so it was really to protect my own sanity and to heal as quickly as possible. But secondarily, it causes her huge pains when she can't get an answer/get ahold of me right away. She basically freaked saying how "prompt" she is with getting back to me when I ask her something and that I am disrespectful for not responding to her right away.

 

On a side note: she still has not returned the divorce ppw. and she has had it over 1 month. This will be over soon enough, however.

 

My thought for the day: Kick and scream all you want honey bunny, this pilot has left the airport.

[Sands_of_time]

I have a good question - how the hell did you change your SN? I'd love to change mine.

 

Click on the Contact Us at the bottom and request to have it changed. I never got a confirmation but the next time I tried to login it didn't let me in with my old one. I felt I needed a bit more anonymity now that I have shared so much. Co-workers have seen this website so I want to make sure I've separated my personal issue from work as much as possible. Probably a little paranoid yes, but you never know...

[dead-dyke]

 

On a side note: she still has not returned the divorce ppw. and she has had it over 1 month. This will be over soon enough, however.

 

My thought for the day: Kick and scream all you want honey bunny, this pilot has left the airport.

 

She asked for it, she got it, right? Good for you. And Mountains as well.

I wish I handled mine the way you guys have. Hindsight - 20/20.

 

Thanks for the tip sands.

[Sands_of_time]

She asked for it, she got it, right? Good for you. And Mountains as well.

I wish I handled mine the way you guys have. Hindsight - 20/20.

 

Thanks for the tip sands.

 

No problem-DD. Somehow, someway, we are all in this together. The circumstances are a bit different in each story but the pain and hurt is universal.

 

I am assuming the divorce ppw. is coming to me soon. I've filled out my half but she is taking her sweet time with her half. Some days I wonder if it will kick me like a two ton heavy thing when it comes back to me. It's inevitable so maybe it is best we do it like a band-aid. I know I don't want her back. I feel I have passed a point of no return. I don't know that I respect her. Her insides are permanently soiled in my eyes.

[Mountains10]

She asked for it, she got it, right? Good for you. And Mountains as well.

I wish I handled mine the way you guys have. Hindsight - 20/20.

 

Thanks for the tip sands.

 

Yeah well, it's up and down for me sometimes. When I do NC, she comes after me, but doesn't change her mind about the divorce.

Today I fell down on NC, like an idiot, but she's filing today and i fell off NC for 15 minutes to talk to her about it. I'm still having an issue with letting go completely. I think I upset her when I told her how I still felt, but that was not my intention. I emailed her and apologized for reverting back to loving her. Told her I had to go back to NC and wished her well. Oh well, here we go again, start from scratch again. Arrrghhhhhhhh!

[clv0116]

I am assuming the divorce ppw. is coming to me soon. ..... Her insides are permanently soiled in my eyes.

 

It's over. You need to get out and date and stop thinking about her that way. From now on she's someone from your past, not part of your future. She was too old for you anyway, you should be dating 24-26 or so probably.

[dead-dyke]

I can guarantee you 1 thing - Maybe not like a 2 ton heavy thing, maybe so. But you guys will feel some kind of terrible disappointment once the finality sets in. I thought I was fine, and was ready for the final paper work to arrive in the mail. Then when I got it, some form of upset welled up in me. Not to the point of breaking down, but the lump in my chest was undeniable. As ready as you think you are, your bodies will surprise you. It did to me, anyhow. And mountains - So what - you have to break NC once in a while till this is all over. Relax, for what it's worth. Easier said than done.

[Sands_of_time]

It's over. You need to get out and date and stop thinking about her that way. From now on she's someone from your past, not part of your future. She was too old for you anyway, you should be dating 24-26 or so probably.

 

I agree, CLV. She is someone from my past. I should clarify: I AM passed a point of no return. I should say it with more conviction. That brings up a good/moral question. Do you date other people while you are still married?

 

And yes--red flag #1: why wasn't she married at 32 when I met her? Hindsight my friend is usually crystal clear.