Parential Alienation

[pelicanpreacher]

Okay Gunny, since the full frontal assaulted is to be tabled let me ask you a few questions ... where did you get your work ethic from? How long were your parents and grandparents married? And, what did you believe you were required to do to achieve a successful marriage when you married your EX?

[Gunny376]

Nothing is off the table Pelician, nothing. I'm a General Robert E. Lee, and I realize that has a lot of different connotations to a lot of differnt people, but he was a damned good man, leader.

 

Henry Ford once sued a Detroit newspaper for libel for running a piece referring to him as "ignorant" and un-educated, (he was not formally educated).

 

The defense called in world reknown expert after expert. Asked him to solve a algebra problem ~ which he couldn't. Asked him to solve a chemistry problem, which he couldn't. Asked him to solve a physics problem ~ which he couldn't.

 

He then told the court. "I've a row of buttons on my desk, and I press one of them if I have a math problem? I push one of those buttons, and instantly I have ten of the top mathematicians at my disposal. If I have a question about chemistry, I push a button and instantly I have ten of the top chemist at my disposal to answer any question I have about chemistry. The same with physics or any other subject.

 

That's what you and LS are to me. Friends and comrades of course, but I'm that button on your desk, as you are to me.

 

To answer your question, I've been working all of my life. I was raised by my "Depression Era" Grandparents, (Father's side) who had raised seven children through the Great Depression, WWII, and the Korean War. We lived on a "farm" not for profit, but for our own subsistence. We raised our own food, (garden, bringing and slaugtering a hog, milking a cow, making our own butter, buttermilk) drawing water from a well, (as in a bucket and rope ~ not a faucet) chopping wood for the fireplace and the woodburning stove.

 

When I was 13 I was "loaned out" to pay a bartered debt in the form of bailing hay with no complaint. Again when I was fourteen. When I was fourteen I would ride my back to stack tires in a tire dealership. More the same when I was 15.

 

Bought my first car from money I had saved when I was sixteen, (a 62 Ford Falcon ~ uglest car ever made ~ and ten years old at the time.) Got a job working produce, stocking shelves, in a grocery store whatever until I graduated from HS.

 

Went into the Marines 18 days after getting out of HS.

 

Worked 60-70 weeks most of the time I was in the Marines, the Marine Corps is not a 40 hour a week, 7-3 jobs for most. Its pretty much "can to can't"

 

The two reasons I got for being divorced was because (1) I was a "work-aholic" (I often worked at the club system as a second job as a grill-cook, bartender, bar-back, bouncer, duty manager) and that I had to change, although I was never told "what" I had to change? (Since figured out I wasn't meeting her emotional needs to be wined and dined, rommanced, yada~yada!)

 

The XHEX has totally sunk both her daughter's (from her first marriage) and mine's potential with their mates. Both of them were in the Army, and now they're out here working dead end ~ going no where jobs. The DSIL is a qualified ATC (Air Traiffic Controller) but he's working security (albiet at a Nuclear Plant ~ which when it comes to security jobs are better paying than most ~ but is a third of what he could be making doing ATC)

 

I know the DD's marriage is Hell bound and would be truly astounded if they make it ten years. They got married because she got pregno, they were both under the age of 25, earn less than 25K a year, neither have a college degree (which I offered and still offer to finance provided she get a "regionally" marketable degree which for most women around here is either education or nursing.)

 

Thanks for your input PelicanPreacher. I've not blown your advice off at all and I'm glad you've not done the same for my "taking the frontal assualt off the table!"

 

Trust me, as a retired Marine that's my first inclination, but now that I've been out here in civilian la~la land for awhile, I'm all to aware that I've got to tone down the in your face, Marine DI approach. Its not well received by others.

 

Its taken my co-workers, the people I work with day in and day out, to comprehend me, and to understand that "Hey! This SOB is alright! He's straight up!

 

Me? I know I'm an azzhole and can be one! Problem is? Most people don't even have a clue they are one?

 

Most people don't get Marines. The only way you can understand one is to be one. Brothers KNOW brothers! Vets know Vets!

[LakesideDream]

I have to chuckle Guns. I've had more than one person look at me like I was a one eyed Martian after asked them what their major malfunction was....

 

I've even told a couple of brain dead punks that they'd better "un-f**k" themselves.

 

You are what you are Guns.

[Gunny376]

I have to chuckle Guns. I've had more than one person look at me like I was a one eyed Martian after asked them what their major malfunction was....

 

I've even told a couple of brain dead punks that they'd better "un-f**k" themselves.

 

You are what you are Guns.

 

 

Thing is LS, you and I are of the kindered "blood" I KNOW your my brother and I'm yours! That's way beyond civilian la~la land! Bonded in Combat is bonded FOREVER!

 

 

You went through the Tet offensive, and that doesn't mean squat to kids these days.

 

Khe Shan doesn't mean anything to today's youth!

 

They just don't know what we went thorough, suffered, and sacarificed for them!

 

But I'm damed glad and proud I did it!

 

Some gave all, but ALL gave some! And I'm PROUD of them all!

[pelicanpreacher]

LOL,

 

LSD, I'm getting flashbacks of the movie "Full Metal Jacket" now! A couple of other questions Gunny, how long did you and your EX date before deciding to get married and who pushed who for it hardest to your best recollection?

[Gunny376]

Its evident to me Pelicapreaccher that you are a very well read, welll educated person.

 

You are 'degreed" and "awarded" and your very intellegent.

 

 

My XHEX was a mistke of my youth, I was young, dumb and stupid. She was 24 and I was 22.

[pelicanpreacher]

Don't let the smooth taste fool ya! Often is the the time I know no more today than I did yesterday and that ain't much more then I ever knew, LOL!

 

Now, as to your wife, what and how much did you know about her family and her upbringing?

[LakesideDream]

LOL,

 

LSD, I'm getting flashbacks of the movie "Full Metal Jacket" now!

 

 

Actually PP, my DI in '69 made Sgt. Ermey's character (Senior Drill Instructor Hartman) in FMJ look like a pu**y, not that Ermey wasn't the real deal, he was/is. In fact a special act of Congress bestowed the Rank of Gunnery Sgt. on Ermey many years after he retired, for his service to his country post seperation.

 

Our Gunny made it the "old fashioned" way... he earned it in the field.

 

The first half of FMJ wasn't bad, as far as it went. The latrine scene was complete BS though. The second half of the movie was just Hollywood.

[pelicanpreacher]

Actually PP, my DI in '69 made Sgt. Ermey's character (Senior Drill Instructor Hartman) in FMJ look like a pu**y, not that Ermey wasn't the real deal, he was/is. In fact a special act of Congress bestowed the Rank of Gunnery Sgt. on Ermey many years after he retired, for his service to his country post seperation.

 

Our Gunny made it the "old fashioned" way... he earned it in the field.

 

The first half of FMJ wasn't bad, as far as it went. The latrine scene was complete BS though. The second half of the movie was just Hollywood.

 

LOL, I kinda figured it! "Soldier, is that a peace sign on your helmet"?!! :lmao::lmao:

[Gunny376]

Never, and I mean never call a Marine (or former Marine) a soilder! The difference all soliders want to be Marines, but no Marine is just a solider.

 

The XHEX was a mistake of my youth, we got married in a fever hotter than a pepper sprout. Hardly knew one another when we got married. The best way I could describe her and her family would be "trailer trash", which I come from a long line of dirt poor people myself, but I've always sought to better myself through the education, reading, learning and growing.

 

Knowledge is King!

 

She basically divorced me and went back to her "roots" and her comfort level I guess. She's got five sisters and a brother and none of them completed high school. The XHEX herself is a 8th grade HS drop out, (learning disability which back in the day wasn't recognized ~ and which she to this day isn't aware of) Her father was illiterate and could neither read nor write.

 

Marriage was doomed from the onset. I was only 22 and thought I was grown and knew what I was doing. Didn't have freaking clue!

 

If I could get my hands on a time machine, I'd go back and kick my young dumb azz!

[Gunny376]

Actually PP, my DI in '69 made Sgt. Ermey's character (Senior Drill Instructor Hartman) in FMJ look like a pu**y, not that Ermey wasn't the real deal, he was/is.

 

My first military ID card showed me with a black eye ~ blood filled eye. I told the series commander I had hit it on the side of the rack. DI slammed the front sight of my M-16 into it, when I executed port arms wrong.

 

I told the series commander I had hit while running around my rack. There was no freaking way I was going to stay on the island one second more than I had to.

 

Also went to one day "Motivation Platoon" and I was VERY MUCH MOTIVATED when they got done with me. No freaking way I was going back there for a week or two, let alone CCP (Correctional Custody Platoon) A congressional investigation has since done away with both because of "cruel and unusual punishment"

[pelicanpreacher]

Never, and I mean never call a Marine (or former Marine) a soilder! The difference all soliders want to be Marines, but no Marine is just a solider.

 

The XHEX was a mistake of my youth, we got married in a fever hotter than a pepper sprout. Hardly knew one another when we got married. The best way I could describe her and her family would be "trailer trash", which I come from a long line of dirt poor people myself, but I've always sought to better myself through the education, reading, learning and growing.

 

Knowledge is King!

 

She basically divorced me and went back to her "roots" and her comfort level I guess. She's got five sisters and a brother and none of them completed high school. The XHEX herself is a 8th grade HS drop out, (learning disability which back in the day wasn't recognized ~ and which she to this day isn't aware of) Her father was illiterate and could neither read nor write.

 

Marriage was doomed from the onset. I was only 22 and thought I was grown and knew what I was doing. Didn't have freaking clue!

 

If I could get my hands on a time machine, I'd go back and kick my young dumb azz!

 

I was wondering if she came from a family that espoused the same work ethic and values and you've aptly described how the two of you were unequally yolked. I'm thinking that your wife became intimidated by your growth and zeal to succeed in comparison to the limitations of her inadequecies and may have felt that she couldn't keep up. Her lack of education may have hampered her communication skills and impeded her ability to articulate her fear and distress that you might leave her someday so she sought out a kindred spirit to which she was more equally yolked. As you kept tabs on her life throughout the years were there any extended periods where she or especially her new husband were ever unemployed? Was there ever any evidence that their fights ever rose to a physical altercation? Do your children espouse their values and work ethic or yours?

[Gunny376]

No she didn't she came from the improvished, entitled class. Her Mom was a SAHM, and she and her five sisters aspired to be the same.

 

I had meet and dated a woman who's father was a multi-millionaire, and the reverse was ture. I thought? I could never give her the life she's become accustomed to. I was a very young 20 something, and didn't realize that "Daddy" could have ~ would have set me up. So I dumped her. Jane was crazy about me. I've never had a problem finding a GF when I set my mind to it, I settled for a poor girl I thought I could make her happy?

 

None of her family ever finished HS, I believe one of her five sisters and brother ever completed HS, most didn't finish junior HS.

 

I believe her greatest aspiriation in life was to be a SAHM, much like her Mother.

 

But I think you've hit the nail on the head in that we were so incomptible.

 

Thanks PelicianPreacher! You've given me great insight and things to think about!

 

LISTEN UP! I HOPE ALL OF YOU THAT ARE GOING THROUGH THIS CRAP ARE PAYING FREAKING ATTENTION! THIS CRAP IS GOING TO AFFECT YOU AND YOURS DOWN THE ROAD! SO WAKE UP! SET UP! AND PAY ATTENTION!

DISMISSED! :mad:

[pelicanpreacher]

Aha! I just caught that she had another child from a prior marriage meaning she was collecting child support on 2 children for 18 years. Its no wonder she was somewhat versed in divorce and child support for her financial plan seems to be based upon this. Its also no wonder that she always chose younger suitors for, even with her limited intellectual capacity, she knew human nature well enough to know that she could psychologically use her age advantage to achieve better control over her relationships. Its my bet that her current husband is somewhat retiring in nature and willing to defer to her demands to earn a steady moderate living working a traditional job offering local employment, remain close to home, never go out drinking with the boys, or ever make waves by accepting that he must always acquiece to her whims. I'm surprised that she didn't seek to get pregnant with him for it would have been in keeping with her MO in securing insurance of yet more child support should the relationship fail. Maybe her lack of leverage kept her from cheating on him to move onto the next man for her investment in time couldn't be recouped without additional child support. (B@stard lucked out)

 

Seeing you as you are and her as she is I doubt there would have been a happily ever after for your marriage as far as I can tell. Could you see yourself making the kind of changes I see to have made this marriage work? Yours is a case in point for why I constantly harp on Skinman, Single Dad, or anyone else in this sort of predicament for anyone who would commit adultery to achieve their agenda will often have other dysfunctions that inhibit their ability to successfully actualize as an adult. If there are children involved and they retain custodial custody their influence allows their dysfunctions to propogage into the next generation in a never ending cycle doomed to repeat itself again, and again, and again, and again.

 

Gunny, you might sit down with your daughter and ask her if she knows how her mother's relationship with her stepfather started. (You'll be surprised by her answer) I'd also ask your daughter if she is aware of how far her mother went in school. (Again, you'll be surprised by her answer) I'd then tell her that you want her life to turn out better than yours or her mother's by making sure she goes as far as she can with an education that will ensure that she never has to resort to doing the things her mother did to survive unless she's satisfied with destroying her husband's life like her mother destroyed yours. If she will take your offer to allow you to help finance her education then when she gets a great job she can use that income to help her husband get an education so that the both of them can have great jobs which will improve their marriage and allow them to live the kind of life that could help their marriage last. If not, then she'd better be prepared to go from man to man having babies to collect child support just like her mother.

[Gunny376]

You've been a great help to me, and have given me much to think about and reflect upon, I won't post much until Mon or Tue's as you've given me much to consider?

 

Your counsel is most wise! Your words I must go up on the mountain and ponder and take into consideration. Sitting drinking and spittin' whiskey into the burning fire!

 

Thank you, my Friend!

[pelicanpreacher]

You've been a great help to me, and have given me much to think about and reflect upon, I won't post much until Mon or Tue's as you've given me much to consider?

 

Your counsel is most wise! Your words I must go up on the mountain and ponder and take into consideration. Sitting drinking and spittin' whiskey into the burning fire!

 

Thank you, my Friend!

 

You're most welcome Gunny. I was trying to refrain from coming across to heavy handed as I did before but thought that by giving her a forward incentive in the way that I did it might get her to rethink her thoughts about you!

 

Good luck!

[Curmudgeon]

Congrad's on the retirement BTW, when are you and Mrs. moving to Alabama!

 

Thanks, Gunny. Actually, we've pretty much settled on Missouri, on or near the Missouri or Missippi rivers.

 

As for the rest, I think that what worked for me in reconnecting to my children is that I offered to explain nothing but was always willing to answer any questions they had. I was honest in disclosing my failures and was very careful NOT to bring up any of the ex's. I simply told then that there are three sides to every divorce -- his side, her side and the truth which likely lived somewhere in between. If pressed I simply say we grew apart. They were there and know what happened anyway.

 

My children appreciated my candor about me and the fact that I didn't put down their mother. Even now, going on 15 years later, I won't do that. I don't have to. They see her for who and what she is and need no help from me.

[You'reasian]

No she didn't she came from the improvished, entitled class. Her Mom was a SAHM, and she and her five sisters aspired to be the same.

 

I had meet and dated a woman who's father was a multi-millionaire, and the reverse was ture. I thought? I could never give her the life she's become accustomed to. I was a very young 20 something, and didn't realize that "Daddy" could have ~ would have set me up. So I dumped her. Jane was crazy about me. I've never had a problem finding a GF when I set my mind to it, I settled for a poor girl I thought I could make her happy?

 

None of her family ever finished HS, I believe one of her five sisters and brother ever completed HS, most didn't finish junior HS.

 

I believe her greatest aspiriation in life was to be a SAHM, much like her Mother.

 

But I think you've hit the nail on the head in that we were so incomptible.

 

Thanks PelicianPreacher! You've given me great insight and things to think about!

 

LISTEN UP! I HOPE ALL OF YOU THAT ARE GOING THROUGH THIS CRAP ARE PAYING FREAKING ATTENTION! THIS CRAP IS GOING TO AFFECT YOU AND YOURS DOWN THE ROAD! SO WAKE UP! SET UP! AND PAY ATTENTION!

 

DISMISSED! :mad:

 

 

 

Oorah, Gunny! Always appreciate a Marine.

 

PS - are you running the Marine Corps Marathon?

[Gunny376]

No, my to day max has been ten miles, and that was when the XHEX and I had our worse argument. I was seriously PO with her! I ran, and ran, and ran! I was a freaking Forrest Gump!

 

I still PT (Physical Training) and do the before strecthing exercises, the "Daily Seven" and the after strecthing exercises, etc.

 

I get funny looks from passerby's. Most "civies" in Alabama aren't accustomed to seeing such. Most days I do at least three miles at the break of dawn. Every now and again, I might go for more if I'm feelin' it. About once a month, and if my schedule allows I'll go six miles. (Usually on my "weekends" of Mon & Tue)

 

The whole time I've got those Marine Corps "Jody-Calls" in my head!

 

"C-140 going down the strip!

Looks like we're going to take a little trip!

 

Jump up! Stand up Bunkle up!

Shuffle to the door!

 

Jump right oiut and yell MARINE CORPS!!

[Gunny376]

Thanks, Gunny. Actually, we've pretty much settled on Missouri, on or near the Missouri or Missippi rivers.

 

As for the rest, I think that what worked for me in reconnecting to my children is that I offered to explain nothing but was always willing to answer any questions they had. I was honest in disclosing my failures and was very careful NOT to bring up any of the ex's. I simply told then that there are three sides to every divorce -- his side, her side and the truth which likely lived somewhere in between. If pressed I simply say we grew apart. They were there and know what happened anyway.

 

My children appreciated my candor about me and the fact that I didn't put down their mother. Even now, going on 15 years later, I won't do that. I don't have to. They see her for who and what she is and need no help from me.

 

Thanks Curmudgeon, I really wanted and needed to hear from you on the subject!

 

LOL! Not that I'm that young, whenever I see your post, I think of the Richard Pryor qoute, ~ "You DON'T see any old FOOLS wandering around ~ you azz don't get OLD by playing a fool!"

 

I hope the "kids" are taking notes!

[Gunny376]

Aha! I just caught that she had another child from a prior marriage meaning she was collecting child support on 2 children for 18 years. Its no wonder she was somewhat versed in divorce and child support for her financial plan seems to be based upon this. Its also no wonder that she always chose younger suitors for, even with her limited intellectual capacity, she knew human nature well enough to know that she could psychologically use her age advantage to achieve better control over her relationships. Its my bet that her current husband is somewhat retiring in nature and willing to defer to her demands to earn a steady moderate living working a traditional job offering local employment, remain close to home, never go out drinking with the boys, or ever make waves by accepting that he must always acquiece to her whims. I'm surprised that she didn't seek to get pregnant with him for it would have been in keeping with her MO in securing insurance of yet more child support should the relationship fail. Maybe her lack of leverage kept her from cheating on him to move onto the next man for her investment in time couldn't be recouped without additional child support. (B@stard lucked out)

 

Seeing you as you are and her as she is I doubt there would have been a happily ever after for your marriage as far as I can tell. Could you see yourself making the kind of changes I see to have made this marriage work? Yours is a case in point for why I constantly harp on Skinman, Single Dad, or anyone else in this sort of predicament for anyone who would commit adultery to achieve their agenda will often have other dysfunctions that inhibit their ability to successfully actualize as an adult. If there are children involved and they retain custodial custody their influence allows their dysfunctions to propogage into the next generation in a never ending cycle doomed to repeat itself again, and again, and again, and again.

 

Gunny, you might sit down with your daughter and ask her if she knows how her mother's relationship with her stepfather started. (You'll be surprised by her answer) I'd also ask your daughter if she is aware of how far her mother went in school. (Again, you'll be surprised by her answer) I'd then tell her that you want her life to turn out better than yours or her mother's by making sure she goes as far as she can with an education that will ensure that she never has to resort to doing the things her mother did to survive unless she's satisfied with destroying her husband's life like her mother destroyed yours. If she will take your offer to allow you to help finance her education then when she gets a great job she can use that income to help her husband get an education so that the both of them can have great jobs which will improve their marriage and allow them to live the kind of life that could help their marriage last. If not, then she'd better be prepared to go from man to man having babies to collect child support just like her mother.

 

Most helpful and insightfull, your words!

 

And, I understand that you had to comprehend the history of the relationship before you could advise.

 

Man! You've been a BIG help in tunneling thorugh the cob-webs of my mind!

 

For eighteen years, I've beaten myself up, became a serious drunk, in that I failed my wife, my children, my family? Your thoughts and comments have freed me from that! I gave my best! I gave my all! I gave 110% There wasn't anything left to give, and still my XHEX feeds my children that I didn't give enough!

 

For years upon years, I've beaten mysefl up ~ but its all about my ex's insecurities about herself. Its all been about her "issues" about wheather she still "had it" or "got it" to turn another's head. Its all been about her growing older, and her in-ability to deal with such.

 

It was never about me meeting her emotional needs, its always about her insecurities about herself. Pity the poor bastard she's married to!

 

Thanks PelicianPreacher!

 

You've shown me the path to free me from the demons of my mind! I did all I could, I gave all there was to give! And then I gave more!

 

LadyJane would be proud of you!

[Curmudgeon]

I hope the "kids" are taking notes!

 

Me too, my friend. I also hope I can learn to spell Mississippi before I stand on the riverbank next week!

[Gunny376]

All of this has given great reflection of the years, and its really has eased my mind in that I gave all there was to give and did all that that I knew how to do at the time and that I knew what to do. And I have peace of mind now in knowing that,

[sumdude]

All of this has given great reflection of the years, and its really has eased my mind in that I gave all there was to give and did all that that I knew how to do at the time and that I knew what to do. And I have peace of mind now in knowing that,

 

It's what you do Gunny, for your family and for your country.. which in an odd way is a huge extension of family. It's guys and gals like you that make the possibility of a pretty safe and easy life here in the USA.

 

Feel some pride.. and now it's time to give all you can to Gunny OK?

[Gunny376]

You're right SDude, and thanks for what you posted! But let those guys coming back from Iraq and Afghanistain know, even if you meet them at the mall, the grocery store, whereever, it means a lot!