Parential Alienation

[Mz. Pixie]

See if you could take them to dinner and then tell them at dinner you'd like to have a better relationship with them going forward- start over- whatever you'd like to call it.

 

Not that I have to tell you this but that would not be a good time to talk about what their mom did- just focus on you and what your situation was and that you feel that you did the best you could during those circumstances but that in retrospect you would really like to have a closer relationship with them.

 

You could do this together or separately- separately I would think would be better.

 

Send a card- offer to come over and babysit GS while they go out- things like that.

 

You're going to have to get "real" to get their attention.

Thanks!

[Gunny376]

Let me address this from another angle?

 

I gave the XHEX everything from a 12 year marriage. DHX3 had been divorced for five years. He got everything from the marriage of less than 1 year. Between the two? They wanted and needed nothing!

 

I gave the XHEX sole custody of the children. Figuring that being a career Marine I had zero chance of such. (I know better ~ NOW! )

 

I also gave the XHEX the tax deduction for the two DC.

 

I was paying child support filing single claiming one.

 

I even agreed to take all of the bills from the marriage to include the XHEX's car payment.

 

She filed married claiming four, and then back doored me after the divorce by having claiming head of housedhold and three. The IRS re-writes me as single and claiming none. Boom! I've got a eight thousand tax laibility plus interest and penealities.

 

I call the XHEX and told she either works with me on this or I'm filing bankruptcy. She screams that she's got divorce papers. I try and explain to her that bankrupcy court is a federal court? And supercedes "state courts"

 

She doesn't listen?

 

I filed Chapter 7!

 

They repo her car! I warned her! By not working with me? Your screwing yourself.

 

Of course the bills fall back on her once I filed bankrupty! She blames her sister for it.

 

Back in the day, the XHEX was trading for new cars every couple of years. Now that the child support is gone ~ they're not. Back in the day when I was paying thier mortgage ~ there was new cars, ski-boats, trips to the beach, and lakes. Nothing but a good time for any and all!

 

Meanwhile I'm living in the barracks, doing without, going without, driving used junk on a prayer! (To tell you how bad it got, I use to use the emergency brake to drive my car ~ it got that freaking bad)

 

But I'm out of that now! I'm the otherside of all that BS!

[pelicanpreacher]

It's said that its no great feat to be a big shot with someone else's booze or money. Likewise, how hard is it for a gigilo to be a "nice guy" on somebody else's hard earned dime? The fact is, their household's standard of living was supported in a large part by the fact that you carried yourself with the honor, distinction, and commitment of a man loathe to shirk his financial obligations. If you were a deadbeat dad and your EX's husband completely took up your financial slack then and only then can he be considered a hero in anyone's eyes. As for his familial connection with your daughter throughout the years you do have to give him props for being there for her but, again, he didn't have to stress himself out financially to do it which still leaves him untested from the ground up on that matter so the jury's still out on his overall capability thereto.

 

I'm confused as to why your EX would blame her sister for the loss of her vehicle due to your bankruptcy though?

[Gunny376]

My bankruptcy force them into bankruptcy as they were trying to start and owner-operator trucking business ~ which the older sister had already started (three tractor-trailers). The DHX3's father was also an owner operator.

 

The XHEX was trying to "steal" loads (underbid) from both ~ it got really competitive, really ugly. The new father-in-law would have gotten physical with her in a drunken rage had it not been for DHX3 getting in between them. The XHEX is of the type that any that goes right ~ she's 110% responble, if anything goes wrong? Its 110% someone else's fault.

 

The older sister got scape-goated as the culprit. This all went down about 13-14 years ago. The older sister just went under the knife for cancerous gall bladder surgery. She called the XHEX to mend fences, and the XHEX would have no part of it, cussed her out and told her to never call her again.

[hotgurl]

Gunny,

I have read your posts here but I don't know your full story so forgive me if I am missing something.

 

But basically it sounds to me like your kids are older now adults and due to your ex and your job you didn't get to see them that much and this was compounded by the fact that she bad mouthed you all the time. You did provided finacial support at a great cost to yourself.

 

But that is all in the past all the crap your ex did, the bankrupcy she caused the bad mouth all of it is in the past.

 

What you need to do is focus on the now. Your kids are here now and build a relationship with them as the y are now.

 

I like the letter writing suggestion, maybe a phone call once a month or once a week. Try to arrange dinners together. It will be slow you have to be paintent. They will take a while to warm up.

 

But if you are consistant it will pay off. It may take awhile.

 

Also the money issue I know you feel resentful about your ex taking glory for their lifestyle while you were financing it but the is between you two. You kids probably don't know anything about that. Also it might not matter to them.

 

Little kids especially don't care about money they care about time. So i wouldn't even bring the money issue up.

 

Just start off with I would love to reconnect with you guys and take it from there.

[Gunny376]

Gunny,

I have read your posts here but I don't know your full story so forgive me if I am missing something.

 

But basically it sounds to me like your kids are older now adults and due to your ex and your job you didn't get to see them that much and this was compounded by the fact that she bad mouthed you all the time. You did provided finacial support at a great cost to yourself.

 

But that is all in the past all the crap your ex did, the bankrupcy she caused the bad mouth all of it is in the past.

 

What you need to do is focus on the now. Your kids are here now and build a relationship with them as the y are now.

 

I like the letter writing suggestion, maybe a phone call once a month or once a week. Try to arrange dinners together. It will be slow you have to be paintent. They will take a while to warm up.

 

But if you are consistant it will pay off. It may take awhile.

 

Also the money issue I know you feel resentful about your ex taking glory for their lifestyle while you were financing it but the is between you two. You kids probably don't know anything about that. Also it might not matter to them.

 

Little kids especially don't care about money they care about time. So i wouldn't even bring the money issue up.

 

Just start off with I would love to reconnect with you guys and take it from there.

 

You've hit so many major points HotGurl.

 

When I was confronted with divorce papers by the X, I knew it was going to be one Hell of a Bitch, for everyone involved, and I decided to "suck it up" as much of it as I could.

 

WTH! I was a career Marine, worse case? I would go to Camp Lejuene and live in the Staff NCO barracks? Eat in the chow hall three times a day

I'd have three hots and a cot if nothing else. Just like the Corps promised me when I initially enlisted.

 

I'm pretty Spartian and it doesn't take much to make my a happy camper.

 

A roof over my head, out of the cold, the heat, at least one meal a day, some water, (prefer some sweet ice tea) and I'm pretty much good to go.

 

I took on the debts from the marriage, gave the wife everything from a twelve year marriage, (to include her car payment) agreeded to paying child support in the amount of $800 a month, gave her the tax deductions for the children.

 

I did that for my children and threw myself into poverty.

 

I couldn't explain that to them when they were 6 and 10, but now?

 

They're 25 and 29?

 

They don't see what I did for them?

 

And I don't know how to explain it to them?

 

I'm not one, being a retired Marine ~ to brag about what I did and didn't do! I did what I had to do! In the best intererst of my children! It wasn't about me ~ it was about providing the best childhood for them.

 

It was about sucking it up and dealing with it!

[Gunny376]

It's said that its no great feat to be a big shot with someone else's booze or money. Likewise, how hard is it for a gigilo to be a "nice guy" on somebody else's hard earned dime? The fact is, their household's standard of living was supported in a large part by the fact that you carried yourself with the honor, distinction, and commitment of a man loathe to shirk his financial obligations. If you were a deadbeat dad and your EX's husband completely took up your financial slack then and only then can he be considered a hero in anyone's eyes. As for his familial connection with your daughter throughout the years you do have to give him props for being there for her but, again, he didn't have to stress himself out financially to do it which still leaves him untested from the ground up on that matter so the jury's still out on his overall capability thereto.

 

I'm confused as to why your EX would blame her sister for the loss of her vehicle due to your bankruptcy though?

 

Your thoughts haunt me in that this is what Fathers, Husbands, Men, and Marines are suppose to do!

 

Not talk about it, brag about it! Just suck it up and do it! Deal with what may come! Come Hell, high water or damnation!

[OneFootOut]

Gunny, I can see where your frustration comes from, and I feel for you. I think your ex did you a great disservice by having your kids, and grandkids refer to another man as daddy or granddaddy. I can't even imagine how that must have hurt. Your kids are grown now, you should be able to reach out to each of them and have some meaningful talks so they can grasp your side of the picture.

 

Hopefully through the years they have also learned to make their own choices about who they want in their lives and they have fair and open minds. I hope so. I hope you can build up quality relationships with them and the grandkids, and remain an active part of their lives now. Wish you the best.

[Gunny376]

Gunny, I can see where your frustration comes from, and I feel for you. I think your ex did you a great disservice by having your kids, and grandkids refer to another man as daddy or granddaddy. I can't even imagine how that must have hurt. Your kids are grown now, you should be able to reach out to each of them and have some meaningful talks so they can grasp your side of the picture.

 

Hopefully through the years they have also learned to make their own choices about who they want in their lives and they have fair and open minds. I hope so. I hope you can build up quality relationships with them and the grandkids, and remain an active part of their lives now. Wish you the best.

 

 

Than you for that!

[Kasan]

Gunny, I am curious................

 

Have you made any progress with your kids? Have you made a plan?

[Gunny376]

1. I want to provide them with $10,000 each toward a "OMG" fund, toward their building and having one years income in the bank and clue them in on Hellen's Hunt & Dave Ramesy's program

 

2. I want to help them buy a house, easier said than done with the DD than the DS, as the DD is married to a former solider, and he has access to the VA loan.

 

3. I want to provide as much as I can to the DGS education fund be it college or trade school

 

4. I don't want to give un-solicted advice, and non-interference as to how to live their lives nor raise their children.

 

5. I want to be a part of thier lives, and they mine, but I don't want them to all about me, nor they mine.

 

What I'm looking for espesically from women are suggestions and ideas of how to reconnect?

[OneFootOut]

Gunny,

 

I've never been in your situation, but I have reconnected with an estranged brother with my mom's guidance. (This was years ago) Her best advice was to not dwell on the past and try to step beyond it and start fresh. Keep all the negative comments and opinions about other family members (your ex) to yourself, and if you are asked specifically, try to give short factual (unemotional) answers from your view, without putting her in a bad light.

 

Your kids will see how mature and fair you are, and recognize that you have risen above it all and will honor and respect you for that. Down the road, once you have built that relationship, then if you really need to get lingering things off your chest, you could open more personal discussions.

 

Also, I think even grown kids would prefer quality meaningful time with you than all the money you could chuck at them. Though your financial plans are noble, and I wish you would adopt me your presence and spending quality time with them is far more valuable than money. Maybe you and the kids and grandkids can go on a weekend getaway once in a while? I'd sure like that time with my own father.

[Gunny376]

Gunny,

 

I've never been in your situation, but I have reconnected with an estranged brother with my mom's guidance. (This was years ago) Her best advice was to not dwell on the past and try to step beyond it and start fresh. Keep all the negative comments and opinions about other family members (your ex) to yourself, and if you are asked specifically, try to give short factual (unemotional) answers from your view, without putting her in a bad light.

 

Your kids will see how mature and fair you are, and recognize that you have risen above it all and will honor and respect you for that. Down the road, once you have built that relationship, then if you really need to get lingering things off your chest, you could open more personal discussions.

 

Also, I think even grown kids would prefer quality meaningful time with you than all the money you could chuck at them. Though your financial plans are noble, and I wish you would adopt me your presence and spending quality time with them is far more valuable than money. Maybe you and the kids and grandkids can go on a weekend getaway once in a while? I'd sure like that time with my own father.

 

 

That's the kind of ideas I'm looking for!

 

Thanks! Never crossed my mind to ask the DD or DS on a "date" Duh!

 

Brilliant idea!

[EnigmaXOXO]

What I'm looking for espesically from women are suggestions and ideas of how to reconnect?

 

I feel sad that so many men have been conditioned to believe that their most important role as a parent is to provide financially. Daddy’s are much more than a paycheck, and if I could change one thing about the imbalance of our traditional gender roles, I think I’d start with that.

 

Gunny, my ex husband had been raised with the same ideals. And while my daughter was young (and spoiled rotten to the core) he did manage to buy himself a little time front and center in the limited scope of her adolescent universe. But all children grow up and eventually outgrow their Disney Dad’s as their understanding of relationships (and what constitutes as genuine love and concern) evolves beyond making sure they own the most expensive pair of sneakers so they don’t get picked on at school.

 

There was a time several years ago when my daughter was living on her own and would stop next door to visit with her father regularly. It would break my heart that she wouldn’t walk across to street to even say hello. Can’t tell you how many times John had to console me through my tears while I was staring out the window just to get a glimps of her. The reason for those visits was that she was stopping buy to get money from him to finance her addiction. I, on the other hand, couldn’t afford to buy my daughter’s love and attention. Even if I could, I was under strict guidance by the councilors that I was not to enable her. I have to admit... my heart was so broken because I missed her so badly that I was actually tempted on more than one occasion to bribe her --- with something --- anything --- just so I could spend a couple of minutes with her. Fortunately, as much as it nearly killed me, I managed to resist.

 

Today, my daughter and I are as close as we were when she was a little girl. My heart is so full of love and pride for the beautiful woman she’s grown into that sometimes it feels as if it might burst. I still don’t have anything more to give her than the time, love and attention that I gave her before. But now that she’s maturing and has navigated through some of life’s most difficult obstacles herself, she has come to appreciate that sometimes it’s those intangible gestures of love that are often the most valuable. Those things you can never put a price tag on.

 

Pick up that d*mn phone and call your children. Tell them you miss them. Tell them you just want to hear their voice. Forget all the other stuff. And if they don’t get back to you right away, don’t give up. Don’t let it crush your heart. Give it a couple of more weeks and try again. Keep trying, cause that’s where it has to start.

 

#4 and #5 are great! Skip #1, #2 and #3 until the rest falls into place. Please remember, you can’t buy love. I would also add that I’ve always gone by philosophy that you can put yourself out there for your adult children and it is still up to them to decide for themselves what kind of relationship they want to have with you. You have to be willing to put aside your own expectations and accept your role in their lives on their terms, at their pace, while leaving yourself wide open for potential hurt and continued disappointment all at the same time. It’s hard, but soldier, you’ve been in tougher spots than this before. And it’s absolutely doable.

 

Hey --- They don’t say that “being a parent is the most difficult and thankless job there is” for nothin’!

[Gunny376]

Thank you EnigmaXOXO

As always nothing but words of wisdom from you! :love:

 

Never call a Marine a solider, for all soliders wish they were Marines, but no Marines wishes he was a solider.

 

The differenece?

 

In the Marines every Marine is an infrantryman, be they clerk, cook, baker, candlestick maker. In the Army, Navy, Air Force? You are what you do? In the Marines, you play the flute in the band your trained and expected to be able to engage in combat.

 

When the 1st Marine Divison Band deployed to Iraq? They carried their tubas, trombones, drums and M-16's, helmets, flak jacktets and 782 gear. If need be? They're expected to fight and engage the enemy.

 

They're all required to be trained in hand to hand combat, and now the marital arts, and are expected to have earned their black-belt by the end of their initial four year enlistment. Be you a cook, baker, supply, motor transport ~ you have to qualify each year with the rifle regardless of rank. Once you make Sergeant, (and for some MOS's {Military Occupational Speciality sooner} you have to qualify with the pistol and other weapons.

 

In many Marine units its the Mark-19 (think automatic machine gun ~ except it shots gernades instead of bullets) is the designated weapon for Marine cooks and bakers to man.

 

The cliche of "Everyone Fights or I shoot you myself!" comes from the Marines!

 

That aside?

 

I'm far from being a "Disenyland Dad"

 

Indeed that's my problem, I gave so much to XHEX that my children think that I gave nothing!

 

I gave the XHEX everything from a twelve year marriage, as well as the tax deductions for them as well as 25% of my net income, took the bills from the marriage (to include her car payment) forced into bankruptcy, thrown under the bus with the IRS because of the XHEX, forced to start over from nothing ~ alone!

 

Hell! I was the best thing that ever came along for that SOB that she left me for!

 

The day after the divorce was final?

 

He went in and claimed "Married Claiming Four" (Actually Five ~ but that's another story) ~Instant Pay Raise!

[Gunny376]

Pick up that d*mn phone and call your children. Tell them you miss them. Tell them you just want to hear their voice. Forget all the other stuff. And if they don’t get back to you right away, don’t give up. Don’t let it crush your heart. Give it a couple of more weeks and try again. Keep trying, cause that’s where it has to start.

 

I feel your pain, that only a parent could feel? I'm truly sorry you went through that!

 

Lakeside told of his DS's addiction to crysatalmeth! Damned that had to be hard to deal with! Even harder to tell! (Thanks Capt~ as if you've not gone through enough aleady?)

 

I think what we're all getting out of this is that its not easy no matter who we are? Its a tough row to how!

[EnigmaXOXO]

I wasn’t referring to you as a “Disney Dad”, Gunny. Rather the notion that throwing even more money at this situation was going to make your kids respect, appreciate or love you more. (As referenced in the top three of your plan.) Probably a mixed blessing that you can’t afford to at this point, otherwise I’m worried you might be tempted.

 

I also meant no offense by getting my military jargon all mixed up. I don’t speak the language, so I’ll refrain from even addressing that side of you. I’d rather break through that Marine (???) toughness they’ve instilled in you and plead with the human being and father that I’m sure still exists somewhere underneath. It’s that guy who needs to bridge the gap between himself and his children... the softer, kinder, less militant and scary one. That’s the kind of father I’m sure your family wants to see. But it will require that you temporally shelf the EXHEX resentments and residual guilt you feel for not being around as much as you would have liked during your last relationship. Otherwise, I’m worried you’ll keep talking yourself out of trying to reconnect with them.

 

None of my business, I know. But have you spoken to them recently?... or do they refuse to have anything to do with you ??

 

I feel your pain, that only a parent could feel? I'm truly sorry you went through that!

 

Shoot, Gunny. You’d be amazed at just how many families go through this. My own sister is going through the exact same thing right now and I feel it more for the both of you having already been there and gotten through it. And you know what? --- There’s absolutely nothing to be sorry about. What I’ve learned is that it that it often takes going through some of the roughest times before you’re truly able to appreciate what really matters. The things (and people) we too easily take for granted.

 

I love what OneFootOut had to say. It’s spot on. As a matter of fact, it’s the same mistake my own sister kept making over and over again which has pushed her boys even further away --- In that she and their father were so busy trying to explain their side of the story that the kids were caught in the middle trying to referee. Unfortunately, last year, they felt they finally had no choice but to pick a side. Having seen the outcome of that, I certainly wouldn’t recommend that approach if it could somehow be avoided.

 

I know I’ve already posted enough, but if you haven’t already, I sure hope you gather the courage to try and make contact with your children. Meanwhile, I’m pulling for you. I just wish there was something more I could say to encourage you or help with your situation.

[Gunny376]

Thank you for your post EnigmaXOXO, even though I read it earlier today, right after you posted it, I prefer to take someones counsel and give it sometime to rattle around in my brain housing group.

 

The financial goals are long term and will take several years before they come to fruition ~ no worry there. And I agree that its just so wrong to try and buy someones affection and love ~ be they your children or be they someone whose affection you seek ~ it never works.

 

And, raising hand, I was guilty of that mentality.

 

I've never spoken a bad word of their mother, although I'm sure she has of me? She was a mistake of my young and lustful youth. I was of the mentality then that the definition of a good husband was a man that was a good provider, didn't drink up, snort up, gamble away the rent money or grocery money ~ yada, yada. I was young and dumb, and while I never cheated on any woman I've ever been with, especially not my wife ~ I had another mistress at the time ~ the Marine Corps. [There's a thread on here where A4A and I went into great depth of this very thing]

 

And I don't want to argue my case of the past, and I completely agree that its no longer a "me vs them" nor "them vs me" deal.

 

I've not always made the right decisions, but I did "just do the right thing" but in ways they could not understand and still do not understand.

 

I don't feel "right" in bringing forth the hardships, suffering, sacrifices I've made for them ~ nor in explaining it to them. I did what a man and a father is suppose to do for his children ~ even if they don't fully comprehend it, and have been poisoned in their thinking by their mother.

 

And I fully comprehend that she's promoting the SD in this and that as the better man, justifying her decision to leave me for him, when she didn't have any of the "traditional" reasons for leaving/divorcing me.

 

The who, what, when, and why of the breakdown of the marriage and subsequent divorce are ill-relevant. Its all so much water over the damn and under the bridge.

 

Thanks for all of your posts, I do truly appreciate it!

[quankanne]

When the 1st Marine Divison Band deployed to Iraq? They carried their tubas, trombones, drums

 

the Marines have their own polka band? Now I'm REALLY impressed, those guys can JAM!

 

gunny, I've only looked at the last page so I cheated, but as a doting aunt of kids whose parents (my sibs) have divorced, they really and truly want your time and your love even though they may be little ****s (or big ones) by testing you to see if you'll really get them whatever they want just because they can guilt you into it.

 

the lunch/dinner date sounds like a fantastic way to gradually get into their lives because it's only an hour or two commitment ... you're not trapped in an uncomfortable because the time is limited, yet you have ample time to let them know you're interested in their lives and are there for them. Again, it might take some time for them to warm up to you, but once they realize you are sincere about being a dad who loves them, they'll come around.

 

whatever you do, don't talk money with them, because that could be taken in a negative light, like you're trying to buy their affections. Letting them know that you are open to listening to their concerns is good in and of itself, and you can judge if you're in a position to help or point in the right direction, you know?

 

I admire you for taking steps to reconcile with your kids – a lot of times people just would rather let those relationships go than to act on a desire to reconnect.

[Gunny376]

Thanks quankanne any and all advice I receive is greatly appreciative, and your input means a lot to me.

 

I'm not to worried about used for money, they were raised to be self sufficient, self-supporting, and were taught the basics concepts of money and saving from an early age.

 

DD28 bought her frist new car on her own when she was 21, without a co-signer, and her first trailer when she was 22.

 

DS25 is so tight with money that he use to when he would go out a date he'd eat before he left the house. If the girl was out with said something about getting something to eat he would expect her to pay for her's or ask her why didn't she eat before she left the house.

 

A lot of it is simply they've gotten grown and busy with their lives? The whole "Cat In The Cradle" thing.

 

Thanks again for the imput ~ every little bit helps. I'm starting to feel a lot better about all of this