Ross PK Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I don't know whether to believe in God, but some religions talk about how God punishes people for being gay and does all sorts of other hateful things. If this is true, that God does bad things, doesn't that make him a bad person? Why would these people want to follow a bad person? Link to post Share on other sites
wuggle Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 If there was a god then ultimately as (s)he is omnipotent, omnipresent and created everything, (s)he is responsible for everything that happens, both good and bad. How can a loving god inflict such pain and misery on individuals. Many religions come up with various ways round this problem (he has a plan, free will etc) but in my opinion these are all rubbish. Common sense tells me that god does not exist, the alternative is that if they did exist they really are not very nice. Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 God's not a person, therefore cannot be a "good" person or a "bad" person. I also believe that He presents us with situations where we ultimately decide what path to take, and he gives us the necessary graces to deal with whatever goes down. does God punish gays and murders and people who go against society? I have no idea. I do believe that it's all on a case by case basis, and that the big question is going to be "Did you Love in your lifetime?" Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 Ross,the first thing you should establish for yourself is whether to believe in God or not. That was your first comment. If you decide upon investigation, reading and research that you should choose to adhere to a religion that sees God as the Head, Creator Divine supreme being, then, the remainder of your questions would follow, and you'd have to come to some kind of conclusion. If you decide upon investigation, reading and research that you should choose to NOT believe in God - then your questions are irrelevant. First things first, eh? Link to post Share on other sites
Storyrider Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 It seems strange that our idea of basic fairness in the West stems from the Judeo-Christian tradition, yet when we read the stories in the bible where God is harsh, or when we look around us and see starvation and needless suffering, we're offended that God could behave this way. I honestly don't know what to make of the fact that God fails to live up to the human standards of justice and mercy. Especially since modern concepts of mercy derive from Judeo-Christian thought. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ross PK Posted January 1, 2009 Author Share Posted January 1, 2009 Ross,the first thing you should establish for yourself is whether to believe in God or not. That was your first comment. If you decide upon investigation, reading and research that you should choose to adhere to a religion that sees God as the Head, Creator Divine supreme being, then, the remainder of your questions would follow, and you'd have to come to some kind of conclusion. If you decide upon investigation, reading and research that you should choose to NOT believe in God - then your questions are irrelevant. First things first, eh? I'm trying to make sense of the way people think. Whether I believe in God or not makes no difference, and if I don't it doesn't make my question any less relevant. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ross PK Posted January 1, 2009 Author Share Posted January 1, 2009 God's not a person, therefore cannot be a "good" person or a "bad" person. I also believe that He presents us with situations where we ultimately decide what path to take, and he gives us the necessary graces to deal with whatever goes down. does God punish gays and murders and people who go against society? I have no idea. I do believe that it's all on a case by case basis, and that the big question is going to be "Did you Love in your lifetime?" If he's not a person why did you call him a he? If God isn't a person but some sort of thinking being then it makes no difference, and still leaves me with my original question. If God is some sort of a being that cannot think, why place so much importance on it? How can you follow it? It would also mean that everything in any bible is false, since they are saying that God does think, creates, makes decisions, etc. Link to post Share on other sites
Trialbyfire Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 It seems strange that our idea of basic fairness in the West stems from the Judeo-Christian tradition, yet when we read the stories in the bible where God is harsh, or when we look around us and see starvation and needless suffering, we're offended that God could behave this way. I honestly don't know what to make of the fact that God fails to live up to the human standards of justice and mercy. Especially since modern concepts of mercy derive from Judeo-Christian thought. "Do as I say and not as I do." Link to post Share on other sites
D-Lish Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 To me, the universe is random. No higher being(s)... No bearded dude in the sky pulling the strings according to his mood. I don't think you need to establish whether or not you believe in god before asking this question. When it comes to the things we don't know about the universe, I am truly happy having unanswered questions. Awe with regard to the unknown is what spawned religion in the first place. It fills in the gaps... Me personally? I am fine with gaps. I have no contempt for religion, only contempt for people who use it to judge, or push their views on others. Some people feel that believing the universe is random means living life without purpose. I have never felt that way. Link to post Share on other sites
Eve Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 As I have not heard of God raping or starving anyone, I dont think Him to be 'bad'. Hence, I now tend to devide the issue into what is God made and what is man made. Regards, Eve xx Link to post Share on other sites
Storyrider Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 As I have not heard of God raping or starving anyone, I dont think Him to be 'bad'. Hence, I now tend to devide the issue into what is God made and what is man made. Regards, Eve xx I don't think that works. The buck stops with Him. If He's all knowing and all powerful, why does He allow things like cancer or diabetes or tsunamis that can't be traced to any human act? Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 I'm trying to make sense of the way people think. Whether I believe in God or not makes no difference, and if I don't it doesn't make my question any less relevant. Oh, sorry. I getcha.... My take on it is, that it is rarely a satisfying exercise trying to "make sense of the way people think". Their minds are changeable, and on a block question like this, you're going to receive different opinions, even from people in the same family, let alone religious group or church. What matters, is the way you think, and what your attitude is. I think it important for people to know precisely what you will stand for, and equally, what you won't stand for. Once you establish your view and opinion in your mind, it's easier to read others, depending on their responses to you. Remember though, that over time, on some things, your views and opinions may change. perceptions are built on shifting sands..... So my initial comment is always, "well, currently as things stand, this is what Ithink....." Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted January 1, 2009 Share Posted January 1, 2009 when we read the stories in the bible where God is harsh, or when we look around us and see starvation and needless suffering, we're offended that God could behave this way. I don't think "offended" is the word in my particular instance: The God I was introduced to is the God of the New Testament, who is an all-loving being. So it's kind of hard imagining him as harsh, you know? Not that don't think he's capable of righteous anger, but because that's not how I know him. starvation, suffering, a lot of that can be "cured" by mankind, which is responsible for the problem in the first place. I cannot pin that on God, saying, "Well, look what YOU did – what are YOU going to do to fix it?" If he's not a person why did you call him a he? because I don't believe I need to use inclusive language to discuss or describe an original! Link to post Share on other sites
disgracian Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 does God punish gays and murders and people who go against society? Why did you put gays in with murderers for your comparison? In reflection, do you perhaps see a problem with this? If not, what if I were to refer to "Christians and other morons..."? Would you feel slighted then? Cheers, D. Link to post Share on other sites
Lovelybird Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Basically there is an invisible universal law guide each of us, none of us can escape that. And God is unchanging, His characters don't change. HE won't lower His stardards to accommodate our fallen natures. But He provides grace to us. He grieves when we grieve, He forgives whenever we want to turn to Him Right choices are usually hard ones, did you read the book "the road less travelled"? We are living in a world full of people make bad and unwise choices. All bad choices are good for the selfish flesh at the moment, but bad for the soul. We follow HIM because He is loving, forgiving, justice, unchanging, His love is unchanging and long suffering, you can always trust His characters, AND no matter how you scream and whine, He still expects you to do the right thing, and later you could not help appreciating His unchanging charaters . I don't know there is anyone can be like HIm. Most of all, do you know anyone can die for you in spite of all the great suffering by doing so? This is the greatest love. If we are frog in a well never go out the well, can we judge how big sky is? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ross PK Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 Oh, sorry. I getcha.... My take on it is, that it is rarely a satisfying exercise trying to "make sense of the way people think". Their minds are changeable, and on a block question like this, you're going to receive different opinions, even from people in the same family, let alone religious group or church. What matters, is the way you think, and what your attitude is. I think it important for people to know precisely what you will stand for, and equally, what you won't stand for. Once you establish your view and opinion in your mind, it's easier to read others, depending on their responses to you. Remember though, that over time, on some things, your views and opinions may change. perceptions are built on shifting sands..... So my initial comment is always, "well, currently as things stand, this is what Ithink....." Well, to be honest I don't know why I said it's to make sense of the way people think as it's not really that. To explain myself better, I'm asking because I'm just so curious about what they'll say, I mean, apart from 'God doesn't do any of those things' (which I can accept, as there are different versions of God), how on earth can they come up with an excuse? Yet at the same time, you know as sure they will. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ross PK Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 when we read the stories in the bible where God is harsh, or when we look around us and see starvation and needless suffering, we're offended that God could behave this way. I don't think "offended" is the word in my particular instance: The God I was introduced to is the God of the New Testament, who is an all-loving being. So it's kind of hard imagining him as harsh, you know? Not that don't think he's capable of righteous anger, but because that's not how I know him. starvation, suffering, a lot of that can be "cured" by mankind, which is responsible for the problem in the first place. I cannot pin that on God, saying, "Well, look what YOU did – what are YOU going to do to fix it?" If he's not a person why did you call him a he? because I don't believe I need to use inclusive language to discuss or describe an original! I can accept that, there are all sorts of different versions of God. I would love to hear what Muslim extremists, Westboro Babtist Church, etc, would have to say though, as the God they believe in really doesn't sound like a nice person at all. In some religions, God is a Homophobic, murderous person, who instructs his people to rape and stone women. It seems as though he's created humans so he can punish them for being human. I mean, why worship someone like that? Why think he's a great person? If someone like that moved next door to you, you'd want nothing to do with him. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Whether I believe in God or not makes no difference If you believe, then that belief will help you in your life. If you don't believe, that's OK too. You can still have strong morals, keep on the straight and narrow without believing in God. Link to post Share on other sites
Tony Posted January 2, 2009 Senior Moderators Share Posted January 2, 2009 As I recall, I once had to ban God from this site...but I don't quite remember why. Even if I did, I couldn't say because He would have his right to privacy, according to the Terms and Conditions of LoveShack. I do believe God received instant access to PMs, given His status as creator, but other than that there were no special benefits accorded him. He was not a premium member...I don't think. Link to post Share on other sites
Citizen Erased Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 As I recall, I once had to ban God from this site...but I don't quite remember why. Even if I did, I couldn't say because He would have his right to privacy, according to the Terms and Conditions of LoveShack. I do believe God received instant access to PMs, given His status as creator, but other than that there were no special benefits accorded him. He was not a premium member...I don't think. :lmao: Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I remember that God...Hmm, wasn't Jesus banned as well? Link to post Share on other sites
quankanne Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 Why did you put gays in with murderers for your comparison? In reflection, do you perhaps see a problem with this? If not, what if I were to refer to "Christians and other morons..."? Would you feel slighted then? not intended as a slight towards gays, but more as a reflection that some people consider homosexuality illegal, the same way homicide is illegal. as for Christians and other morons ... alas, there tends to be a moronic element that helps comprise the Christian population, but thankfully, that section has a small slice of the piechart! Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ross PK Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 Why did you put gays in with murderers for your comparison? In reflection, do you perhaps see a problem with this? If not, what if I were to refer to "Christians and other morons..."? Would you feel slighted then? not intended as a slight towards gays, but more as a reflection that some people consider homosexuality illegal, the same way homicide is illegal. as for Christians and other morons ... alas, there tends to be a moronic element that helps comprise the Christian population, but thankfully, that section has a small slice of the piechart! From what I've heard homosexuality is actually illegal, or at least gay sex is, in around 15 states of America. I was really surprised to hear that. I mean, if it was Afghanistan or something, I wouldn't have been surprised, but a supposedly free modern country like America? Just to let you guys know, I'm not dissing on America or anything, for the most part I like America a lot, but obviously, I do think it has a few bad points, just like any country including my own (Britian). Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ross PK Posted January 2, 2009 Author Share Posted January 2, 2009 If you believe, then that belief will help you in your life. If you don't believe, that's OK too. You can still have strong morals, keep on the straight and narrow without believing in God. Yeah that is a good thing about religion, whether it's true or not it can help a lot of people through life. Link to post Share on other sites
Dexter Morgan Posted January 2, 2009 Share Posted January 2, 2009 I don't know whether to believe in God, but some religions talk about how God punishes people for being gay and does all sorts of other hateful things. If this is true, that God does bad things, doesn't that make him a bad person? Why would these people want to follow a bad person? If there is a god, I don't believe he/she does bad things. But rather allows them to happen. Therefore I have 2 philosophies: - There is no god OR - There is, but not a god I respect for all the things that are allowed to go on in the world. Yes yes, I know, human free will. Whatever. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts