Geishawhelk Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 You even said you got me, when replying to that post. Even D-lish said "I don't think you need to establish whether or not you believe in god before asking this question." Gosh Ross, that was so last week! I don't even remember what I did this morning!! :D Link to post Share on other sites
wuggle Posted January 7, 2009 Share Posted January 7, 2009 I don't think I believed in god last week, still don't this week after all the cra* that has just happened in Gaza. Good\Bad is a human construct, humans kill humans not god. Link to post Share on other sites
knaveman Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Well, I still don't see it as okay if God does do bad things or let's bad things happen if he can stop them. Do you think the same way as this about people who do bad things? Honestly, it doesn't matter if you are okay with it or not, it's still going to happen. I do think that a belief in God is extremely relevant to this whole discussion. If you don't believe in God how can you hold him accountable for the bad things? As Geisha said: Isn't what you're really saying: "I would like people who believe in God to tell me why their God does bad things, or if they don't think S/He does, to tell me why. However, I don't care either way, because I'm a non-believer." Good and bad are a matter of perspective. You cannot have one without the other. If all the bad in the world went away what would we compare the good against? It's all just a part of life no matter who is responsible for it. Why do people only question the bad things? Does anyone ever say "Why did this good thing happen to me?";) Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Buddha: "Mind is the forerunner of (all evil) states. Mind is chief; mind-made are they. If one speaks or acts with wicked mind, suffering follows one, even as the wheel follows the hoof of the draught-ox. Mind is the forerunner of (all good) states. Mind is chief; mind-made are they. If one speaks or acts with pure mind, AFFECTION follows one, even as one's shadow that never leaves." (The Dhammapada Approx 300BC) Epictetus (Greek Philosopher): "People are not disturbed by things, but by the views we take of them." (55-135AD) Marcus Aurelius Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth. (121 - 180AD) Proverbs, 23:7 "For as he thinks within himself, so he is." (Biblical quotation) Shakespeare: "There is nothing either Bad or Good but that thinking makes it so." (Hamlet 1500 - 1600) Wiser people than I have tried, for millennia, to make people understand that it all starts in your head, with what you tell yourself. What goes on behind your eyes, is a thousand times more powerful than what goes on infront of them. The moment we truly realise this, and begin to live by it, Common Sense will one day, be just that. Common Sense. Until such a time as this happens, everyone will continue to project all problems as "out there" <*points randomly*> when in fact they lie within the source of perception, "in here" <*points to own head*>. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ross PK Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 Honestly, it doesn't matter if you are okay with it or not, it's still going to happen. I know that. I don't really understand what your point is though. I do think that a belief in God is extremely relevant to this whole discussion. If you don't believe in God how can you hold him accountable for the bad things? As Geisha said: Isn't what you're really saying: "I would like people who believe in God to tell me why their God does bad things, or if they don't think S/He does, to tell me why. However, I don't care either way, because I'm a non-believer." Good and bad are a matter of perspective. You cannot have one without the other. If all the bad in the world went away what would we compare the good against? It's all just a part of life no matter who is responsible for it. Why do people only question the bad things? Does anyone ever say "Why did this good thing happen to me?";) A belief in God isn't relevant because the reason why I'm asking is because I'm curious to see what people who believe in God think. Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 A belief in God isn't relevant to you, Ross. But the fact that he (or she!) is prominently mentioned in the question, means that he is relevant, certainly to others. I just find it odd that you seek the reasoning of those who believe in God, and want opinions you're never going to agree with anyway. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ross PK Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 A belief in God isn't relevant to you, Ross. But the fact that he (or she!) is prominently mentioned in the question, means that he is relevant, certainly to others. I just find it odd that you seek the reasoning of those who believe in God, and want opinions you're never going to agree with anyway. Like I said I'm just curious about what they'd say. Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 Why..........?? Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ross PK Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 Dunno..... Link to post Share on other sites
Geishawhelk Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 :lmao: Link to post Share on other sites
knaveman Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 I know that. I don't really understand what your point is though. That was my point. God does bad things and it's pointless to agree or disagree with it because you can't do anything about it. The only thing you can do anything about is you. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ross PK Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 I know that. I don't really understand what your point is though. That was my point. God does bad things and it's pointless to agree or disagree with it because you can't do anything about it. The only thing you can do anything about is you. So, do you see him as a bad person then? Link to post Share on other sites
Mahatma Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 I do not believe that, if a God exists, he punishes people who are gay. I do not believe he cares very much about things like that. Whether or not you think God does bad things is a personal opinion of what you think a God is and what that god would do. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ross PK Posted January 8, 2009 Author Share Posted January 8, 2009 I do not believe that, if a God exists, he punishes people who are gay. I do not believe he cares very much about things like that. Whether or not you think God does bad things is a personal opinion of what you think a God is and what that god would do. I believe that if there is a God, he certainly isn't the conventional kind that most people believe in, in fact I don't even see him as a he, more along the lines of some sort of a gigantic conciousness which is spread out across the universe, or maybe it is all of the universe for example. Certainly not a man with a white beard. And I don't believe any of the stories in the bibles being true. Link to post Share on other sites
Mahatma Posted January 8, 2009 Share Posted January 8, 2009 I believe that if there is a God, he certainly isn't the conventional kind that most people believe in, in fact I don't even see him as a he, more along the lines of some sort of a gigantic conciousness which is spread out across the universe, or maybe it is all of the universe for example. Certainly not a man with a white beard. And I don't believe any of the stories in the bibles being true. I labeled it a "he" to just make things easier on myself. I think anyone who thinks a god resembles us in any way has waaaaaaaay too big of an ego. Link to post Share on other sites
knaveman Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 So, do you see him as a bad person then? No. And as you stated not really a person either. Link to post Share on other sites
Author Ross PK Posted January 9, 2009 Author Share Posted January 9, 2009 No. And as you stated not really a person either. Why don't you see him or it as bad if he/it does bad things? Link to post Share on other sites
knaveman Posted January 9, 2009 Share Posted January 9, 2009 Allow me to quote myself. I know God does bad things, but I don't think he does them as punishment. Some religions preach that and many people believe that. I don't. I believe that everything that happens to us happens for a reason. What we initially take as something bad may easily end up being good to some degree. I think that the things that we perceive as bad are actually there to teach us things. People do bad things as well, but we can't control what someone else does anymore than we can control what God does. Why dwell on the act? Once it has happened we can't change it or make it go away. We can learn from it and try to prevent it from ever happening again. Is God a bad person because he lets bad things happen? Is he a good person because he lets good things happen? He is neither. He just is. He is our greatest teacher in the lesson of life and the lesson is only over when we die. Link to post Share on other sites
Lovelybird Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 I just read in The Shack, his perspective is amazing, ring a bell in my heart When God asked the hero in the book how he judge good and evil, and he says he judge that based on if others is threatening his own 'good', or how those things or people affect him, all self-serving and self-centered. YEP, ALL HUMAN BEING LIKE THIS IMO. such as when a person hurt you, instantly you judge this person as bad. And here is important, he says "somethings I initially thought were good turned out to be horribly destructive". Yep, how many people are chasing something they think are good but in the end do them harm? not only we judge others and circumstanse in this way, some people judge God in this way, all based on short term, limited, self-serving view of point This is the result of autonomy, think self is the judge and god, and so judge things in the universe good or bad according to own convenience. but this cannot lead to peace or even victories in life. But The other way, that to surrender to ultimate good God is the way to freedom and amazing adventure in life. "Freedom involves trust and obedience inside a relationship of love", isn't this amazing??? Do you see the fight between selfish and unselfish? I love this book, so many insights here. and first time I heard about the understanding about 'the tree of knowledge of good and evil' by the way, the part I directly quote from the book are marked with "" Link to post Share on other sites
Touche Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 I knew you were going to like that book, Lovelybird! Isn't it the kind of book you can almost read again? It was so deep. I know when I read it, I re-read some of the passages in there more than once...not something I normally do when reading. I believe they're making this into a movie. Link to post Share on other sites
Lovelybird Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Yes, Touche, I like this book very much. open my eyes in so many levels If they make it into a movie, the scene must have so many conversations Link to post Share on other sites
Touche Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 Yes, Touche, I like this book very much. open my eyes in so many levels If they make it into a movie, the scene must have so many conversations I know. It really makes you think. Yes, I'm so curious how they'll treat the ending of the book. How did you interpret it all? Do you think he dreamed the whole thing? Link to post Share on other sites
Storyrider Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 What do you think about this theory--God allows evil because there must be conflict in the world or else we would die of boredom. If the world was only good, there would be no conflict or tension. And humans don't feel human without conflict and tension. Link to post Share on other sites
Lovelybird Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 I know. It really makes you think. Yes, I'm so curious how they'll treat the ending of the book. How did you interpret it all? Do you think he dreamed the whole thing? I haven't read the end yet, just peeked a little. The author treated it as a novel, and I think it wasn't a dream in the novel, but many insights are inspired by Holy Spirit I believe, and this author must have a profound conversation with God. And I believe God would engage such an intimate conversation with a person. Personally I've experienced "hear from God", and that brought sense of freedom and incredible peace and love. Yep, I believe miracles and love of God The author said "I am free now, really free", what a incredible thing ! Link to post Share on other sites
knaveman Posted January 10, 2009 Share Posted January 10, 2009 What do you think about this theory--God allows evil because there must be conflict in the world or else we would die of boredom. If the world was only good, there would be no conflict or tension. And humans don't feel human without conflict and tension. I think it's more of a balance issue. Good cannot exist without bad. How would we know good if there was not bad to contrast it with? Of course bad does make things interesting too. Link to post Share on other sites
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