Why don't men want to get married?

[clv0116]

Because it's not true. It all depends on the character of the individual(s) who are raising the child. Not on a society-mandated arrangement.

 

What proof of this do you have to offer? Statistically speaking single parent kids have a lot more issues, I'm not aware of studies indicating anything is better than a traditional family for raising healthy kids.

[949GuitarDude]

CAn someone please shed some light on this? It seems men and women's views on marriage can be so different? I have been withmy b/f for 2 years now, he is 42 I am 33. When we first met, it was quite clear he was anti marriage, but as our relationship has developed he has said a few things that have offered a glimmer of hope to me, i.e. the next time you will meet my parents again will be at your wedding, or, do you like diamonds, or, if I ever was going to get married it would be with you...is it wrong for me to have thought he was warming up to the marriage idea?

 

We met some friends we had not seen for a few months and the first thing they said, are you married yet? This led to THE conversation, which resulted in him saying, I am sure there are many men out there that would marry you but I am not one of them. I am stunned.

 

I love him with every fibre of my being, he says he has not loved anyone the way he loves me. But without him showing the world that he wants to be my life partner, where am I? I can only conclude that he thinks there is a flaw in our relationship that a marriage would make difficult to undo in teh form of a divorce. He thinks I am beautiful, sexy, a good homemaker, funny, supportive, intelligent and he said he will never get a better offer than me.

 

Then what is wrong? I really do not know whether I should invest more of me into this if he thinks it will break one day anyway...Any advice?

 

 

Men don't want to get married because it's a crappy deal for men. There is only upside for women. Why do you need to get married? Why can't you just love him because you love him? What do you need a government contract for?

[clv0116]

What do you need a government contract for?

 

That's really the issue for most guys. Committing in front of the community and so on, the real meaning of marriage, is fine for most guys I know. It's the non-negotiable and subject to ex post facto change nature of the legal contract that's terrifying.

[949GuitarDude]

Think if he loves you and wants to spend the rest of his life with you, then why wouldn't he marry you?

 

What does marriage have to do with love?

[949GuitarDude]

That's really the issue for most guys. Committing in front of the community and so on, the real meaning of marriage, is fine for most guys I know. It's the non-negotiable and subject to ex post facto change nature of the legal contract that's terrifying.

 

Sadly, I've had relationships end because of this. It shows me what they think of me though.

[clv0116]

Sadly, I've had relationships end because of this. It shows me what they think of me though.

 

If she runs when you say prenup, she was probably already thinking divorce was her safety net.

[eclipseIDE]

Sadly, I've had relationships end because of this. It shows me what they think of me though.

 

 

If you look around the forum you will often read about how a woman is "wasting her time" being with a man because he doesnt want to get married.

 

Regardless of how he treats her.

[lkjh]

Because it's not true. It all depends on the character of the individual(s) who are raising the child. Not on a society-mandated arrangement.

 

What about all of the social studies that have shown that kids who come from a broken home tend to score lower in school, make less money in their future, divorce more often, and more open to criminal behavior?

 

Ya its possible to do a good job as a single parent but speaking in general kids do better in a home with two parents setting a good example.

[Squink]

I have just read this entire thread and all I can say is that I am saddened to see such cynical responses. I know that people have been burned in bad relationships - I am one such person - but I do remain hopeful that there are still people who can marry and be happy for life.

 

I would like to marry again even though it didn't work out the first time. Certainly, I was hurt, economically ruined, and suffered emotionally, but I cannot let that determine my attitude for the rest of my life. I am a little scared, but I refuse to let that bad experience rob me of the opportunity to be happy.

 

There are people who take advantage of others - representing BOTH sexes - so there's no one group to blame. And sometimes people change during the course of marriage, and there's little we can do about that. But rather than just rattle on about how bad the opposite sex is, I would prefer to declare that I believe people can be married and have fulfilling lives together.

 

If marriage is only about having children, that would make childless couples (by choice or by happenstance) people whose relationships and commitments are invalid. I certainly can't believe anyone here actually thinks that could be true.

 

It is about love, isn't it? We have the choice to make our lives what we want them to be. For me, the marriage doesn't have to be big or showy, but rather that it is a public declaration of love and commitment where friends and family are invited to join in and celebrate this sharing experience.

 

I dunno. Maybe I'm just too optimistic. But that's my story and I'm sticking to it.

[Sam Spade]

If she runs when you say prenup, she was probably already thinking divorce was her safety net.

 

 

I agree. Unless she has a hidden agenda, there is no reason to be upset about a prenup. If she's committed, she should interpret it as something strange, awkward, but other than that - harmless, so therefore nothing to be ofended about.

It's like health insurance. I certainly don't pay it because I plan to get sick, but I certainly don't want to be fecked if I do.

[Sam Spade]

Plato

Aristotle

Euripedes

Sallust

Livy

Ovid

Chaucer

Dante

Shakespeare

Spenser

Chanson de Roland

Cervantes...

OE

 

None of these guys really talked about romantic love *in the context of marriage*. Quite different things until a couple of centuries ago.

 

 

PS "It is much easier to die for the woman you love than to live with her"

[Woggle]

Why would a woman get mad about a prenup if she does not plan on screwing you over.

[Cherished]

Have you seen the movie He's Just Not That Into You? I'm talking about Jennifer Aniston and Ben Affleck's characters? Your boyfriend sounds just like Ben's character in that movie.

If he loves you and really wants you in his life, he will marry you.

[PinkKittyKat]

Harpy? Selfish cows?

 

Uh... call yourself anything you want, but you aren't a feminist. Feminists believe women are human.

 

You don't understand the laws, your misuse of the term "no-fault" particularly. You also seem to hold an 80's ideal of female participation in the workforce, an ideal which never actually existed.

 

Try this on for size:

 

"I'm also one of those self-styled feminists who has internalized my oppression."

 

Being a feminist doesn't mean I can't call women out on their sh|tty behaviour.

 

If I call a guy a dickhead, I'm not man-hating, I'm doing it because he's acting like one.

 

If I call a woman a harpy, I'm not woman-hating, I'm doing it because she's acting like one.

 

(P.S. I do not believe that women are secretly cows or harpies, which are mythological, silly!)

 

I am a feminist in that I believe in treating women and men as humans.

 

Not as separately, men, and separately, women.

 

Humans.

 

Humans are sometimes horrible horrible creatures. I don't believe in defending crap behaviour just because the human who perpetrated said behaviour happens to have the same genitals as me.

 

I wasn't using no fault in a legal sense. I was using it in an "accepts no blame for any of the marital problems" way.

 

LOL, internalize my oppression? Are you serious? Hahaha, so now I have to fall in lock-step with the groupthink of the Official Feminists™ to keep my parking space at Ye Olde Feministe Clubhouse?

 

This is worse than calling a jerky guy an ******* and getting labeled a man hating feminazi! Do you believe that a woman should be able to cheat, hide everything, then spring a divorce on her unsuspecting husband claiming she's "unhappy in the marriage" and then take off with a bunch of his cash?

That's feminism now? A woman who would do that, or stand behind a woman who did that deserves all the horrendous names I can dredge up.

 

Guess what, I have the same lack of pity and awful names about men who would do the same. GASP! I know, huh? Amazing that I can judge a person for their actions and not gender.

 

Oh, also, my fiance and I's pre-nup will have protection for both of us, not just a "B|tch doesn't take mah money!" clause.

 

"You also seem to hold an 80's ideal of female participation in the workforce, an ideal which never actually existed."

 

I support myself. I pay my own rent currently and have for years. I have always done so, and frequently have supported my bf's at the time. Mostly because I have always earned more than my bf's. My college attending, career minded bf's. And yet(despite being a 'mere woman') I managed to hold down some ridiculously great jobs and rake in a ton of cash to support us. Raises, benefits, promotions...Hmmm.... Well, since I seem to be able to participate quite fine in the workforce(in a MALE DOMINATED field, no less) then perhaps this ideal does exist, hmmm?

[Woggle]

Being a feminist doesn't mean I can't call women out on their sh|tty behaviour.

 

If I call a guy a dickhead, I'm not man-hating, I'm doing it because he's acting like one.

 

If I call a woman a harpy, I'm not woman-hating, I'm doing it because she's acting like one.

 

(P.S. I do not believe that women are secretly cows or harpies, which are mythological, silly!)

 

I am a feminist in that I believe in treating women and men as humans.

 

Not as separately, men, and separately, women.

 

Humans.

 

Humans are sometimes horrible horrible creatures. I don't believe in defending crap behaviour just because the human who perpetrated said behaviour happens to have the same genitals as me.

 

I wasn't using no fault in a legal sense. I was using it in an "accepts no blame for any of the marital problems" way.

 

LOL, internalize my oppression? Are you serious? Hahaha, so now I have to fall in lock-step with the groupthink of the Official Feminists™ to keep my parking space at Ye Olde Feministe Clubhouse?

 

This is worse than calling a jerky guy an ******* and getting labeled a man hating feminazi! Do you believe that a woman should be able to cheat, hide everything, then spring a divorce on her unsuspecting husband claiming she's "unhappy in the marriage" and then take off with a bunch of his cash?

That's feminism now? A woman who would do that, or stand behind a woman who did that deserves all the horrendous names I can dredge up.

 

Guess what, I have the same lack of pity and awful names about men who would do the same. GASP! I know, huh? Amazing that I can judge a person for their actions and not gender.

 

Oh, also, my fiance and I's pre-nup will have protection for both of us, not just a "B|tch doesn't take mah money!" clause.

 

"You also seem to hold an 80's ideal of female participation in the workforce, an ideal which never actually existed."

 

I support myself. I pay my own rent currently and have for years. I have always done so, and frequently have supported my bf's at the time. Mostly because I have always earned more than my bf's. My college attending, career minded bf's. And yet(despite being a 'mere woman') I managed to hold down some ridiculously great jobs and rake in a ton of cash to support us. Raises, benefits, promotions...Hmmm.... Well, since I seem to be able to participate quite fine in the workforce(in a MALE DOMINATED field, no less) then perhaps this ideal does exist, hmmm?

 

Amen. The feminist movement went wrong when it pushed women like you out.

[andwhoknew]

 

"You also seem to hold an 80's ideal of female participation in the workforce, an ideal which never actually existed."

 

I support myself. I pay my own rent currently and have for years. I have always done so, and frequently have supported my bf's at the time. Mostly because I have always earned more than my bf's. My college attending, career minded bf's. And yet(despite being a 'mere woman') I managed to hold down some ridiculously great jobs and rake in a ton of cash to support us. Raises, benefits, promotions...Hmmm.... Well, since I seem to be able to participate quite fine in the workforce(in a MALE DOMINATED field, no less) then perhaps this ideal does exist, hmmm?

 

Because of course, your personal experience can be generalized to an entire gender and society.

 

Wow, you really don't get it, do you? If you think that everything is just fine and dandy, there are no problems, everybody has equal opportunities well... wow.

 

Edit because I found you a link:

 

http://finallyfeminism101.wordpress.com/2007/03/21/faq-isnt-the-patriarchy-just-some-conspiracy-theory-that-blames-all-men-even-decent-men-for-womens-woes/

 

Please read it. As a "feminist", you may find it enlightening.

[LakesideDream]

Think if he loves you and wants to spend the rest of his life with you, then why wouldn't he marry you?

 

Admittedly, I'm older than the average poster so my ideas and attitudes may be colored by the reality of age.

 

After a 25 year marriage that failed (wifes LT infidelity) 8 years ago now (wow it doesen't seem that long) I would be very difficult for me to seriously consider marriage again. What's the point? There are no children to bring into the world, none to raise. What assets I have I would not be willing to risk on the whims of another person.

 

I could happily dedicate my life to making a woman happy. I'd happily give her keys to the castle. I wouldn't put her on the deed.

[Sexyshannon79]

In my opinion, men play a lot of games. They lie and cheat and do whatever they have to in order to get what they want. It's not until a woman decides she isn't going to take a man's BS and let him walk all over her that men decide to take the easy route and opt for foreign-born women, who will let them do whatever they want to do and never say one word to them or utter one syllable of complaint. Men want to be able to have their cake and eat it too.

 

They complain about women getting alimony and child support and that women should get a job, but what about those women who gave up their careers to stay home and raise children, clean house and take care of their husbands, for no pay and no pension? How often do men quit their jobs to do that? How many men take a paternity leave when expecting? I had to quit my job when I had children, which meant my career was at a standstill while my husband's career was in full swing. I was still at the same place while my husband moved forward in his career. Over time, I slowly became obsolete in my field and my husband shone in his.

 

Now, after two children and days of Play-Doh, diapers and Barney, I was no longer interesting or attractive to him and he started seeing other women. Never mind that I spent my days cleaning his house, washing his clothes, cooking his meals and sitting at home with his baby on my swollen breast while changing diapers on two babies. Never mind that I stayed in shape and worked out after each baby and still managed to have a flat stomach and a small waist after having two 10-lb. babies for him, or that I did everything he told me to do when he told me to do it.

 

It still wasn't enough to hold him and he left. He tried to come back and I wouldn't let him; hell, he threw me and the children out into the street and left us homeless for three months. I managed to make a home for us. Even though I was awarded child support and spousal support, I never received a dime, despite the fact I was legally entitled to it (fewer than 5% of mothers receive any money from the baby's father). Now I moved on and met other men who lied and said they wanted to get married, but turned out they only wanted to get laid.

 

I won't have sex until I am married and men don't see me as worth the trouble and dismiss me. If men would just stop playing games and see marriage for what it is, a beautiful union between two people in love, and not some kind of trap where a woman is trying to get rich. Not all women are trying to get money and yes, all men want sex. That is a fact.

[Gunny376]

Admittedly, I'm older than the average poster so my ideas and attitudes may be colored by the reality of age.

 

After a 25 year marriage that failed (wifes LT infidelity) 8 years ago now (wow it doesen't seem that long) I would be very difficult for me to seriously consider marriage again. What's the point? There are no children to bring into the world, none to raise. What assets I have I would not be willing to risk on the whims of another person.

 

I could happily dedicate my life to making a woman happy. I'd happily give her keys to the castle. I wouldn't put her on the deed.

 

 

I've been pondering this very thing ~ per my geographical location I've got more to offer most women than most women have to offer me. Children ~ got them ~ grown and gone and on their own. And in so far as I know doing quite well for themselves?

 

And its at our age its purely a matter of logistics? A man reaches a certain age, he simply doesn't have the time to go back to WalMart, Sears, JC Penny's and buy all that crap that he's already bought once before.

 

Marriage in 2009 is "bunk" anyway. Women don't need men as they once did and women don't need men the way the way they once did. But we're still operating off the same rules as if this was 1910 and 90% of still made a living ~ living on the farm?

[LakesideDream]

I've been pondering this very thing ~ per my geographical location I've got more to offer most women than most women have to offer me. Children ~ got them ~ grown and gone and on their own. And in so far as I know doing quite well for themselves?

 

And its at our age its purely a matter of logistics? A man reaches a certain age, he simply doesn't have the time to go back to WalMart, Sears, JC Penny's and buy all that crap that he's already bought once before.

 

Marriage in 2009 is "bunk" anyway. Women don't need men as they once did and women don't need men the way the way they once did. But we're still operating off the same rules as if this was 1910 and 90% of still made a living ~ living on the farm?

 

 

I don't think that's it Guns. A year plus ago when I moved to my new home I had a ball buying furniture, linens, TV's everything think I wanted, and would need to be comfortable. I went ape doo doo wild and ran up 20k in credit card bills it took me the whole year to pay off. I was never able to do anything like that before and I wanted it before I croaked. It was fun.

 

I keep it all nice and neat, towels hung straight. Matching bedcovers in the twin beds in the guest rooms.. sinks wiped when I use em.

 

Problem is, I would need to be wild ass stupid in love to risk handing my life over to someone else. Remember I can't have the "one I want"... and the ones that are available all look like bad risks to me.

 

At our age Guns everybody has "baggage". I don't want to "take care" of anyone anymore. I want to share. I haven't found anyone who's baggage matches mine, and no one wants their suitcases to "clash".

[treyfan88]

In my opinion, men play a lot of games. They lie and cheat and do whatever they have to in order to get what they want. It's not until a woman decides she isn't going to take a man's BS and let him walk all over her that men decide to take the easy route and opt for foreign-born women, who will let them do whatever they want to do and never say one word to them or utter one syllable of complaint. Men want to be able to have their cake and eat it too. They complain about women getting alimony and child support and that women should get a job, but what about those women who gave up their careers to stay home and raise children, clean house and take care of their husbands, for no pay and no pension? How often do men quit their jobs to do that? How many men take a paternity leave when expecting? I had to quit my job when I had children, which meant my career was at a standstill while my husband's career was in full swing. I was still at the same place while my husband moved forward in his career. Over time, I slowly became obsolete in my field and my husband shone in his. Now, after two children and days of Play-Doh, diapers and Barney, I was no longer interesting or attractive to him and he started seeing other women. Never mind that I spent my days cleaning his house, washing his clothes, cooking his meals and sitting at home with his baby on my swollen breast while changing diapers on two babies. Never mind that I stayed in shape and worked out after each baby and still managed to have a flat stomach and a small waist after having two 10-lb. babies for him, or that I did everything he told me to do when he told me to do it. It still wasn't enough to hold him and he left. He tried to come back and I wouldn't let him; hell, he threw me and the children out into the street and left us homeless for three months. I managed to make a home for us. Even though I was awarded child support and spousal support, I never received a dime, despite the fact I was legally entitled to it (fewer than 5% of mothers receive any money from the baby's father). Now I moved on and met other men who lied and said they wanted to get married, but turned out they only wanted to get laid. I won't have sex until I am married and men don't see me as worth the trouble and dismiss me. If men would just stop playing games and see marriage for what it is, a beautiful union between two people in love, and not some kind of trap where a woman is trying to get rich. Not all women are trying to get money and yes, all men want sex. That is a fact.

 

Oh my god! *cringe*

 

I realize you had a very difficult situation and I sympathize with you...but your post was...classic "misandry" and quite bitter. Not every man lies--cheats--steals. There are good men out there. They do exist! I wish you the best of luck in finding one!

[Dexter Morgan]

Not all women are trying to get money and yes, all men want sex. That is a fact.

 

Sure we want sex. But I'm not dating to get sex. I want to find a life partner. Sex will come later if a relationship is formed.

[Star Gazer]

Because he never wanted to marry her and she "made" him?

 

 

Awesome. So true.

[parky1969]

Hi Racheroo,

 

Hey I am no therapist but I have been around long enough to see the ups and downs of MANY relationships...here's an outsider's point of view re: your man.

1. Men are blessed with a primordial instinct to spread their seed.That's how our species got to dominate the planet! Also historically men have been slaughtered in wars - over tens of thousands of years it's tightly ingrained, to spread their gene pool. So, marriage goes against that instinct. That's exactly why there are no 'groomsmen magazines'...deep down marriage, it's a chick thing.

2. From what you've said it sounds like you are looking for any glimmer of hope, any mild hints, suggestions that your man might be ready to commit...personally I don't think that bodes well...and I think puts YOU in a terrible head-space. His line about "doesn't think he'll get a better offer"...sounds like he's hoping for a better offer.

3. We've all seen guys when they ARE besotted...even the most ardent bachelor when he's hooked he's in deep.

4. You sound awesome. As women we are the carers, nurturers of this world. WE deserve some looking after too! We do not deserve 2nd best or a "you'll have to do" attitude. He doesn't have to marry you but he does need to get down on one knee and publicly declare that he will love, honour and protect your interests for the rest of his life. If he can't do that without persuasion I'd back away smiling, leave him and go elsewhere!

 

5.Meanwhile here's a video about cool bridesmaid dresses for the day that you do marry a guy who worships you. We deserve nothing less.

 

http://player.video.news.com.au/news/#_aQQL6CacvmRYkXr3mNWtSpLMB_fgpz8

 

Hope this all helps

best wishes,

HP

[Woggle]

If there weren't a 50% chance of divorce and a 75% chance that women will be the one to cause that divorce more men would want to marry. Most men would love to have a loving and strong marriage that lasts but the chances of acheiving that with most women today is very slim. The gamble is just too much.