Why don't men want to get married?

[Woggle]

But that's what men DO. Haven't you ever seen them watching a football game together?

 

Women are even worse when they have their you go girl sessions.

[Sam Spade]

Is that a million a year, or over your lifetime?

 

 

Typo, i meant $ 1000 per month. In my state, the amount of alimony is capped (some sanity in family law, I guess...) to 2500$ per month or 20% of ex husband's gross income, whichever is greater.

The child support payments are calculated by a formula I don't completely understand, but for two kids it would come up to about another thousand and above.

 

Of course, no sane guy would object to supporting his kids! But the alimony is a completely different thing and an "activist" judge plus unfortunate domestic situation (e.g. a lazy wife who has not worked in a while - or ever - and then broke her hip on her way back from her lover ) could easily make the worst case scenario reality. Not to mention all the other major inconveniences such as deflating your retirement, losing the house, etc. So, the scenario I described is certainly not sensational, but actually very likely under some circumstances.

 

While a working spouse and comparable incomes could alleviate some of these problems, it is still a huge gamble. (All you need is a grumpy judge). Hence, nothing wrong with bitching a little and taking care of some precautions. While whenever I get married I'll do so with the intention of being fully devoted to this partnership, I won't leave my future completely to chance and I see nothing wrong with this. After all, friendships are based on the same principle: I have a couple of fantastic friends, but of course none of us would expect the others to remain devoted to the friendship if one of us crossed/backstabbed the others. That said, this is a somewhat poor analogy insofar in crossing a friend you always lose (unless you two co-started a company in the silicon valley :)), while in crossing your husband, you always win

[Joey Popps]

The reason many divorced men end up like this is because before she dropped the bomb their ex probably spent a lot of time tearing down his self esteem. He busted his ass trying to please her and trying to change himself to suit her whims and she drops the bomb anyway so he constantly doubts himself. He leaves the marriage a shell of a man plus he might be giving her a good portion of what he earns. Confirmed bachelors tend not to have this problem as much because there was never a wife to neuter them.

 

 

Like I said you watch too many tv shows. There are plenty of 'confirmed bachelors' who never married, never had any kids, were the players back in the day, yet as they get into their 40's wind up having very little money. It really has nothing to do with marriage.

 

A single 42 year old man who stays relatively healthy and makes well into the six figures and never had any kids probably would lead a life like you imagine.

 

A single 42 year old man who never had any kids, sort of stays in shape but doesn't make much money is going to be considered the 'old pervert who thinks he's still a player.'

 

This dream where all confirmed bachelors in their 40's and 50's lead great lives comes from kids who watch way too many tv shows and listen to people trying to sell books and programs. Yes they do exist but many times the 40 and 50 year old playboys are the ones rolling in money. The millions of others out there who make the avg of $45K or less in the US aren't leading those lavish lifestyles you dream of. And thats regardless if they are married, have kids, or are forever single.

 

And in some states any marriage under 10 years is considered short. And technically if a kid goes to college until their 23 years old, you can still owe some kind of support. But there is also a reason why people get pre-nups and hire attorneys long before they get married these days. Or it's a reason you shouldn't date or marry somebody who has no career ambition and no desire to work. It's also a reason you try not to marry and live in states where it's no fault and 50-50 automatically. Saying all that there are plenty of smart men who hired smart attorneys and didn't get screwed over like in the past. Too many people start to act stupid when it comes to divorce and wind up letting anger destroy any chance they have of not getting screwed over. Or there are idiots who cheat and then act idiotic and wind up getting screwed over.

[sally4sara]

Typo, i meant $ 1000 per month. In my state, the amount of alimony is capped (some sanity in family law, I guess...) to 2500$ per month or 20% of ex husband's gross income, whichever is greater.

The child support payments are calculated by a formula I don't completely understand, but for two kids it would come up to about another thousand and above.

Of course, no sane guy would object to supporting his kids! But the alimony is a completely different thing and an "activist" judge plus unfortunate domestic situation (e.g. a lazy wife who has not worked in a while - or ever - and then broke her hip on her way back from her lover ) could easily make the worst case scenario reality. Not to mention all the other major inconveniences such as deflating your retirement, losing the house, etc. So, the scenario I described is certainly not sensational, but actually very likely under some circumstances.

 

While a working spouse and comparable incomes could alleviate some of these problems, it is still a huge gamble. (All you need is a grumpy judge). Hence, nothing wrong with bitching a little and taking care of some precautions. While whenever I get married I'll do so with the intention of being fully devoted to this partnership, I won't leave my future completely to chance and I see nothing wrong with this. After all, friendships are based on the same principle: I have a couple of fantastic friends, but of course none of us would expect the others to remain devoted to the friendship if one of us crossed/backstabbed the others. That said, this is a somewhat poor analogy insofar in crossing a friend you always lose (unless you two co-started a company in the silicon valley :)), while in crossing your husband, you always win

 

This is ridiculous and untrue. If you really want to know what you would pay in child support a month for two kids simply google the state you live in followed by the words "child support calculator".

You fill in some basic income info and it calculates it for you. The judge and family mediator use that same calculator to come up with the amount. It isn't slanted to favor anyone because it doesn't recognize gender anywhere in the formula.

Talk about watching too much TV!

My son's dad is a known drunk with (at the time) 3 DUIs under his belt and had taken our son without my knowledge out of school and clear across the country to live with some old woman he chatted up on-line. They used the same fair calculations and actually gave him standard out of state visitation. Visitation more generous than even half of what he uses.

He doesn't pay squat and they do nothing about it. But let me not answer the door for the once a year visit he does use - see how fast they'd be on my back!......yeah, men have it rough!

P.S. I had a lawyer and he didn't.

 

The only time men get treated shabby by the courts these days is when they never married the mother.

[subdued]

This is exactly how I feel about my relationship, and yet my boyfriend doesn't seem to understand this.

 

 

Not his WHOLE heart. If he loved you, and TRUSTED you, and BELIEVED in you, he would not have an issue marrying you. So maybe he loves you enough (maybe), but he doesnt trust you enough to marry you.

 

If so, he would not use OTHER peoples misfortunes in marriage to cross over into what he does with you. Which is what he is doing, since there has to be some reason he is put off by marriage, because he IS put off by it.

 

If he is afraid of loosing his money and the power tools in a divorce, that says that he does not put enough faith in YOU and your relationship so that if things ended, it would not end THAT way. He would rather look at OTHER people and let THAT determine what he does, rather than his supposed love for you. There ARE people who get divorced without it being a bloody mess, you know. But of course, folks choose to focus on the horror stories. This means that he does NOT trust that you wouldnt take him to the cleaners, or somehow make him miserable in a marriage situation.

 

He does not like the idea of marriage for SOME reason, right?. And if its for the reasons that a lot of guys have said on here, then really what he is saying to you is that he does not trust you enough to believe that you will not screw him over some kind of way in a marriage, or if a divorce happens.

 

You can sit there and sing out your support for him all you want. But you are selling yourself short. If you didnt think so, you wouldnt have made a post about it. You KNOW in your heart you want to be married. Because no matter how much folks all claim that you dont need marriage, you can live together, be in love..blah blah. A marriage says COMMITMENT. A marriage says I AM willing to try to be in this for the long run with you. It says our lives are combined. It says we are family, we are building a home together. A HOME.

 

The word 'boyfriend' says I can just walk out the door and not even care because there is no reason for me to try to work it out. The word 'boyfriend' says this is not a HOME, it is a place where we SHACK UP together. The word 'boyfriend' says here today, gone tomorrow. The word 'boyfriend' says this is the only title I am willing to give to you.

[clv0116]

The only time men get treated shabby by the courts these days is when they never married the mother.

 

Well that's an interesting tangent. If a woman is given the right to decide whether or not she wants to be a mother after conception but prior to birth (abortion) shouldn't a man also have the right to decide whether he wants to be a father after conception but prior to birth?

[Sam Spade]

This is ridiculous and untrue. If you really want to know what you would pay in child support a month for two kids simply google the state you live in followed by the words "child support calculator".

You fill in some basic income info and it calculates it for you. The judge and family mediator use that same calculator to come up with the amount. It isn't slanted to favor anyone because it doesn't recognize gender anywhere in the formula.

Talk about watching too much TV!

My son's dad is a known drunk with (at the time) 3 DUIs under his belt and had taken our son without my knowledge out of school and clear across the country to live with some old woman he chatted up on-line. They used the same fair calculations and actually gave him standard out of state visitation. Visitation more generous than even half of what he uses.

He doesn't pay squat and they do nothing about it. But let me not answer the door for the once a year visit he does use - see how fast they'd be on my back!......yeah, men have it rough!

P.S. I had a lawyer and he didn't.

 

The only time men get treated shabby by the courts these days is when they never married the mother.

 

Not to get all technical, but I did use the calculators. It still doesn't mean that I understand the underlying formula, it's assumptions, weights, whatever

[Sam Spade]

Not his WHOLE heart. If he loved you, and TRUSTED you, and BELIEVED in you, he would not have an issue marrying you. So maybe he loves you enough (maybe), but he doesnt trust you enough to marry you.

 

If so, he would not use OTHER peoples misfortunes in marriage to cross over into what he does with you. Which is what he is doing, since there has to be some reason he is put off by marriage, because he IS put off by it.

 

If he is afraid of loosing his money and the power tools in a divorce, that says that he does not put enough faith in YOU and your relationship so that if things ended, it would not end THAT way. He would rather look at OTHER people and let THAT determine what he does, rather than his supposed love for you. There ARE people who get divorced without it being a bloody mess, you know. But of course, folks choose to focus on the horror stories. This means that he does NOT trust that you wouldnt take him to the cleaners, or somehow make him miserable in a marriage situation.

 

He does not like the idea of marriage for SOME reason, right?. And if its for the reasons that a lot of guys have said on here, then really what he is saying to you is that he does not trust you enough to believe that you will not screw him over some kind of way in a marriage, or if a divorce happens.

 

You can sit there and sing out your support for him all you want. But you are selling yourself short. If you didnt think so, you wouldnt have made a post about it. You KNOW in your heart you want to be married. Because no matter how much folks all claim that you dont need marriage, you can live together, be in love..blah blah. A marriage says COMMITMENT. A marriage says I AM willing to try to be in this for the long run with you. It says our lives are combined. It says we are family, we are building a home together. A HOME.

 

The word 'boyfriend' says I can just walk out the door and not even care because there is no reason for me to try to work it out. The word 'boyfriend' says this is not a HOME, it is a place where we SHACK UP together. The word 'boyfriend' says here today, gone tomorrow. The word 'boyfriend' says this is the only title I am willing to give to you.

 

If that truly makes a woman happy, great for her. But, she shouldnt kid herself if she wants more. And I feel Racheroo IS kidding herself.

 

 

While I agree with this, it also has a hard to swallow self-righteous bias . That somebody does not want to marry you *right now*, doesn't mean that he doesn't want to marry you in *the future*. And there are plenty of legitimate reasons for not being ready for marriage: insufficient financial stability, major career hurdles, uncertainty about establishing and settling into TWO careers etc. etc. etc. All important details that need to be worked up before marriage, and men take them seriously. I know I do.

 

But noooooo, he's not proposing in spite of my hints and puppy looks, so I guess he doesn't love me. . How about validating the guy's perspective for once, eh? Or would that be a little too inconsiderate for the thumping biological clocks and the determination to have that dream wedding *now* .

[WineCountry]

What does marriage have to do with love?

 

 

That is the most stupidest comment I've heard on the topic of marriage, and is at least ONE of the reason why the institute of marriage is going down the crapper.

 

Jesus, folks approach marriage like it's no different than going out and buying groceries. No wonder it sucks for some.

 

Sad, really.

[clv0116]

That is the most stupidest comment....

 

The irony of someone using this construct to describe someone ELSE.

[WineCountry]

Gunny is 100% right. Despite the prejudice that some men have against financially independent women the best bet for a man who does want to marry is to find a woman who has her own. She can relate to you better and if things go wrong you will be in a much better position not to be put through the meatgrinder.

 

 

Yeah....but lots of men DO have prejudiced against financially independent woman, dont they? And they have the nerve to CRY when they get take to the cleaners by their NON financially independent women!!

 

Men look down on you if you are a independent woman who CAN make her own money and buy her own things. It makes them feel NOT in control and not powerful.

 

Yet, they marry some chick who is the cashier at the local gas station, and she wants him to buy her this, buy her that. They marry some chick who is a princess, and didnt work for anything. BUT..it made him feel like a MAN..like the PROVIDER! HE made all the money..cause he is the great, white hunter and provider. YEE HAW!

 

Then, he gets divorced and this woman who he didnt want to make more money than him cause it made him feel un-manly takes him for everything he's got because SHE certainly doesnt have anything. And the judge will feel bad and tell you that u have to keep supporting this poor thing because it is all she is used to.

 

LOL You reap what you sow. So many men want to be 'in control' during the relationship, call the shots, be the big bread winner. They want their women to just cater to them and take care of the kids.

 

Well, you pay for that in the end, dont cha? You can just keep on being the provider then even when you get divorced.

[clv0116]

Yet, they marry some chick who is the cashier at the local gas station ....

 

So here's the thing. She was in a low paying dead end job. She marries a guy with a good job. Later it doesn't work out and they split, she keeps at least 50% of the stuff animals and ceramic unicorns she's blown money on.

 

How is she entitled to a better life AFTER the marriage than she had BEFORE? What did the man do to entitle her to a life better than he found her in?

 

Nothing.

 

But family law seems to feel differently. That makes family law wrong.

[WineCountry]

While I agree with this, it also has a hard to swallow self-righteous bias . That somebody does not want to marry you *right now*, doesn't mean that he doesn't want to marry you in *the future*. And there are plenty of legitimate reasons for not being ready for marriage: insufficient financial stability, major career hurdles, uncertainty about establishing and settling into TWO careers etc. etc. etc. All important details that need to be worked up before marriage, and men take them seriously. I know I do.

 

But noooooo, he's not proposing in spite of my hints and puppy looks, so I guess he doesn't love me. . How about validating the guy's perspective for once, eh? Or would that be a little too inconsiderate for the thumping biological clocks and the determination to have that dream wedding *now* .

 

 

Fair enough, spade. But, remind me. HOW long have they been together..and HOW old is he?? 42 or something?? LOL

 

Okay... I will take the title of being self righteous. But she aint getting married unless she some how badgers him into it. I betcha hes not just gonna ask her cause he WANTS to. How do i know? Well I dont really..thats why I said i betcha!

 

These women think they will change a man's mind. If they are just loving enough, take care of the guy very well, he will come around. They think if I just show him how good of a woman I am, he will change his mind. So they just continue to be the good little girlfriend and hang in there. LOL Yah.

 

No, its not too far fetched to think that some guys just dont want to get married NOW.

 

But, it's ALSO not far fetched to believe that some men just aint the marrying kind, and DONT want to get married..not NOW..not EVER.

[WineCountry]

The irony of someone using this construct to describe someone ELSE.

 

 

The irony of someone who was not the target even needing to CARE:cool:

[clv0116]

The irony of someone who was not the target even needing to CARE:cool:

 

The irony of someone using the word irony to describe something non-ironic. I believe that's a double, so score is me=3, you=fail.

[Woggle]

I love how some women on here talk a good game about love and commitment but many don't practice it in real life. I would bet everything I own that at least one of the women in this thread preaching about marriage will one day fall out of love with their future husbands and have an affair or walk away. The fact that they even have to ask why men fear marriage shows they don't get it.

[subdued]

I love how some women on here talk a good game about love and commitment but many don't practice it in real life. I would bet everything I own that at least one of the women in this thread preaching about marriage will one day fall out of love with their future husbands and have an affair or walk away. The fact that they even have to ask why men fear marriage shows they don't get it.

 

I do practice it in real life. I moved overseas with my ex. He ended up working half the time in the United States and half the time overseas and ended up having affairs overseas. Then he started lying due to the affairs, and our marriage deteriorated. I never had an affair. I wanted to make it work. I was devastated when the marriage broke. I never took him to court for alimony or child support either.

 

He has since apologized for his ill treatment of me. He says his new wife does not let him get away with what I used to let him get away with.

[Dexter Morgan]

I love how some women on here talk a good game about love and commitment but many don't practice it in real life. I would bet everything I own that at least one of the women in this thread preaching about marriage will one day fall out of love with their future husbands and have an affair or walk away. The fact that they even have to ask why men fear marriage shows they don't get it.

 

not to mention that fathers get the shaft in divorce....retirements pillaged, get their children taken away from them and they have to pay money to the mother for the generosity of only getting to see them a few times a month ...ya, I can see why men love marriage in this day and age:rolleyes:

[subdued]

Oh yes. And why was my ex not happy with me? Because I wasn't extroverted enough for him. Now I take Lexapro. I don't want to loose my current boyfriend just because I'm too shy.

[subdued]

not to mention that fathers get the shaft in divorce....retirements pillaged, get their children taken away from them and they have to pay money to the mother for the generosity of only getting to see them a few times a month ...ya, I can see why men love marriage in this day and age:rolleyes:

 

You don't need to be married for these things to happen. You need only be the biological father. Besides, I have no plans to have children with my current boyfriend. He doesn't want any more kids.

[clv0116]

You don't need to be married for these things to happen. You need only be the biological father.

 

Actually just signing the birth certificate is enough. Sad but true, the BC is considered a binding legal document in most places.

[subdued]

But noooooo, he's not proposing in spite of my hints and puppy looks

 

Hints and puppy looks? You mean you haven't asked him? How are you going to know what he is thinking if you don't ask?

[Dexter Morgan]

You don't need to be married for these things to happen. You need only be the biological father.

 

yes, but at least someone can't cheat, then get their hands on your retirement money. then at least all a man would have to do, and should gladly do, is pay for child support. Still doesn't change the fact that it sucks that fathers still get the shaft in this regard.

 

and with regards to the retirement money, I'd have to say I came out of it smelling pretty good. But any retirement to a cheating wife is too much. Even if it is just $10

[subdued]

yes, but at least someone can't cheat, then get their hands on your retirement money. then at least all a man would have to do, and should gladly do, is pay for child support. Still doesn't change the fact that it sucks that fathers still get the shaft in this regard.

 

and with regards to the retirement money, I'd have to say I came out of it smelling pretty good. But any retirement to a cheating wife is too much. Even if it is just $10

 

But what about pre-nups? Aren't pre-nups supposed to protect you from such matters?

 

Besides, I doubt my boyfriend thinks I'm going to cheat on him. He knows sex with him is the best ever. I never cheated when I was married. And I didn't even have sex again until I met my boyfriend. I'm just not the promiscuous type.

[Woggle]

I do practice it in real life. I moved overseas with my ex. He ended up working half the time in the United States and half the time overseas and ended up having affairs overseas. Then he started lying due to the affairs, and our marriage deteriorated. I never had an affair. I wanted to make it work. I was devastated when the marriage broke. I never took him to court for alimony or child support either.

 

He has since apologized for his ill treatment of me. He says his new wife does not let him get away with what I used to let him get away with.

 

You are one of the rare one. More often than not it ends because she wants to go find herself or she resents the hell out of him for some vague reason.