What if your MM or MW had other Affairs?

[Reggie]

Yes.

 

Have a great weekend.

 

 

:bunny::bunny::bunny: Here are some peace bunnies, James. These little guys will not cheat, regardless of the reasons. And, Ted Bundy cannot harm them.

[Mio]

I get it Donna. You think I am a horrible immoral irresponsible, etc etc person because I was involved in adultery and dont apologize for it and apparently herenow believes that because the man I was involved with didnt leave his wife he really didnt love me. Reggie just likes to taunt people because he was hurt.

 

I hear you all loud and clear. I dont on the other hand find the constant invective useful as a mode of "discussion" when people are looking for support.

 

That's how I feel too, jj33. It says right at the top of the page: "Support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner". How can vilifying all affair participants be construed as "support"?

[herenow]

That's how I feel too, jj33. It says right at the top of the page: "Support and discussion for those who find themselves involved with a committed partner". How can vilifying all affair participants be construed as "support"?

 

How is saying that the cheater should take full responsibility for his or her actions "vilifying all affair participants"? Please show me one quote where I have "vilified" an OW. The only mention that I made about an OW is when I said that if a BW can be blamed for an affair that she knows nothing about, then the OW should take part of the blame as well. Other than that I have no idea what you are talking about. Please enlighten me because I don't make a habit of "vilifying" anyone. If I have, I would like to know.

 

And yes, I do think that MM who love the OW will leave the marriage. Just an opinion that I hold and not "vilifying" anyone.

[Mio]

How is saying that the cheater should take full responsibility for his or her actions "vilifying all affair participants"? Please show me one quote where I have "vilified" an OW. The only mention that I made about an OW is when I said that if a BW can be blamed for an affair that she knows nothing about, then the OW should take part of the blame as well. Other than that I have no idea what you are talking about. Please enlighten me because I don't make a habit of "vilifying" anyone. If I have, I would like to know.

 

And yes, I do think that MM who love the OW will leave the marriage. Just an opinion that I hold and not "vilifying" anyone.

 

It starts with your terminology - "cheater". It's dismissive and judgmental. People have all sorts of reasons for finding themselves in an affair. Some are pre-meditated and ignoble, admittedly. But to describe the full gamut of all affair participation as "cheating" is to enter the forum with a prejudice that cannot go anywhere helpful.

 

Then there's the whole issue of "blame", which comes out of the same mindset. It's the Salem Witch Trials all over again.

 

Are you people in here to truly offer support, or are you just picketing?

[herenow]

It starts with your terminology - "cheater". It's dismissive and judgmental. People have all sorts of reasons for finding themselves in an affair. Some are pre-meditated and ignoble, admittedly. But to describe the full gamut of all affair participation as "cheating" is to enter the forum with a prejudice that cannot go anywhere helpful.

 

Then there's the whole issue of "blame", which comes out of the same mindset. It's the Salem Witch Trials all over again.

 

Are you people in here to truly offer support, or are you just picketing?

 

Call it whatever you want. If you don't like the word "cheater" please tell me what you would like me to use. And, I'm only commenting on the married person, I did not call anyone else a "cheater". Let's take away the word "blame" as well and use the word responsible. Is that better?

 

I just went back and read part of his thread and I think for the most part it is very civil. Everyone has stated their opinion and been very clear and I don't see any "vilifying" as you say. The topic is a sensitive one and I feel that this has been a very good discussion. I understand how JamesM feels, and I respectfully disagree with him, but that is his opinion and I enjoy conversing with him. I find that some of the most stimulating conversations are with people that disagree with me. If you feel "vilified" it's not because anything has been said about you. I don't know why you feel that way, but you do, so OK I guess you have been "vilified".

 

Again, please show me one example where you or any OW has been "vilified". I really what to know just in case I owe anyone an apology.

 

Also, what do you think the guy in your avatar would say about a MM who has sex with an OW? Just curious.

[LavendarGirl]

Call it whatever you want. If you don't like the word "cheater" please tell me what you would like me to use. And, I'm only commenting on the married person, I did not call anyone else a "cheater". Let's take away the word "blame" as well and use the word responsible. Is that better?

 

I just went back and read part of his thread and I think for the most part it is very civil. Everyone has stated their opinion and been very clear and I don't see any "vilifying" as you say. The topic is a sensitive one and I feel that this has been a very good discussion. I understand how JamesM feels, and I respectfully disagree with him, but that is his opinion and I enjoy conversing with him. I find that some of the most stimulating conversations are with people that disagree with me. If you feel "vilified" it's not because anything has been said about you. I don't know why you feel that way, but you do, so OK I guess you have been "vilified".

 

Again, please show me one example where you or any OW has been "vilified". I really what to know just in case I owe anyone an apology.

 

Also, what do you think the guy in your avatar would say about a MM who has sex with an OW? Just curious.

 

If I could contribute here...the original OP was asking how you would feel if you found out your MM/MW had other affairs before or during your A with them. The assumption here is that the person answering would be an OW or OM by definition, since all others wouldn't have an MM/MW.

 

Various perspectives can add value to a discussion. However taking the time to jump in and call the parties involved in the A cheaters, sinners (by implication of the Jesus reference), and questioning integrity and morality in general regarding an A...I think goes counter to the spirit of this board.

[Mio]

Call it whatever you want. If you don't like the word "cheater" please tell me what you would like me to use. And, I'm only commenting on the married person, I did not call anyone else a "cheater". Let's take away the word "blame" as well and use the word responsible. Is that better?

 

It would be, if that's what people would use. But they didn't, and they will continue to use the words "cheat" and "blame". As will you. Feel free to prove me wrong.

 

 

I just went back and read part of his thread and I think for the most part it is very civil. Everyone has stated their opinion and been very clear and I don't see any "vilifying" as you say. The topic is a sensitive one and I feel that this has been a very good discussion. I understand how JamesM feels, and I respectfully disagree with him, but that is his opinion and I enjoy conversing with him. I find that some of the most stimulating conversations are with people that disagree with me. If you feel "vilified" it's not because anything has been said about you. I don't know why you feel that way, but you do, so OK I guess you have been "vilified".

 

I'm glad it's been productive for you. I recognise that you are one of the more moderate voices on your side. My beef is that your stance, even though couched in moderate terms, is still the same one that unites a group of loud, negative voices in the OM/W forum.

 

Again, please show me one example where you or any OW has been "vilified". I really what to know just in case I owe anyone an apology.

 

There's no issue of that here. If you feel that cheat and blame are the best words for this phenomenon, that's your belief and your right. But it's a judgement and I question the place of such a judgement in a forum which is meant to be supportive.

 

Also, what do you think the guy in your avatar would say about a MM who has sex with an OW? Just curious.

 

Serious? You don't remember what Jesus said to the adulterous woman? He said, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." When everyone left, he asked, "Hath no man condemned thee?" "No man, Lord." And Jesus said to her, "Neither do I condemn thee. Go, and sin no more."

[herenow]

Serious? You don't remember what Jesus said to the adulterous woman? He said, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." When everyone left, he asked, "Hath no man condemned thee?" "No man, Lord." And Jesus said to her, "Neither do I condemn thee. Go, and sin no more."

 

Yes, I'm serious. I was always taught to follow the ten commandments. So, no I really don't remember what Jesus said because it wasn't part of what I was taught. Thank you for clearing that up.

 

Also, I will call the MM who has sex with a woman that he is not married to whatever you want me to call him. If the word cheater offends you, I have no problem not using it.

 

As far as support, yes I do believe that honest discussions are helpful. If this one has not been helpful to you, then I guess you have wasted your time reading it.

[herenow]

Various perspectives can add value to a discussion. However taking the time to jump in and call the parties involved in the A cheaters, sinners (by implication of the Jesus reference), and questioning integrity and morality in general regarding an A...I think goes counter to the spirit of this board.

 

Sorry my religious education is not where you think it should be. You may need to speak with my parents about that one is you feel it's inappropriate,

 

And, I repeat, I only called the married person a cheater. Do you have a better word to use? If so I will be more than happy to use it. Please show me where I questioned any OW's integrity and morality.

[Mio]

Yes, I'm serious. I was always taught to follow the ten commandments. So, no I really don't remember what Jesus said because it wasn't part of what I was taught. Thank you for clearing that up.

 

You're welcome. The take-home lesson of that verse is that Jesus didn't distinguish between sins. He was basically saying that no-one had the right to judge us, and neither would he. It's a shame that many Christians don't get that.

 

Also, I will call the MM who has sex with a woman that he is not married to whatever you want me to call him. If the word cheater offends you, I have no problem not using it.

 

Please don't do it for me. I would rather that you do what you feel convicted to do.

 

As far as support, yes I do believe that honest discussions are helpful. If this one has not been helpful to you, then I guess you have wasted your time reading it.

 

I saw it running off the rails early on, so I didn't waste my time

[herenow]

You're welcome. The take-home lesson of that verse is that Jesus didn't distinguish between sins. He was basically saying that no-one had the right to judge us, and neither would he. It's a shame that many Christians don't get that.

 

 

 

Please don't do it for me. I would rather that you do what you feel convicted to do.

 

 

 

I saw it running off the rails early on, so I didn't waste my time

 

 

I guess the word adulterer is the most appropriate. It's more the actions that I'm speaking of than what the actions are called. All I can say is that in my case my H took full responsibility for his actions. He didn't blame me, the OW, our marriage. He was the one that made the choice to cheat and he owned up to it.

 

However, that's not to say that our marriage didn't have it's problems and that I wasn't guilty of my part. I took and take full responsibility for any part I played in the break down of our marriage. It took both of us to make it work and it would have been both our faults if it didn't work.

 

The affair did not cause the problems, my H and I did that on own own. The affair made it hard to fix them.

[LavendarGirl]

Sorry my religious education is not where you think it should be. You may need to speak with my parents about that one is you feel it's inappropriate,

 

And, I repeat, I only called the married person a cheater. Do you have a better word to use? If so I will be more than happy to use it. Please show me where I questioned any OW's integrity and morality.

 

herenow, I was not questioning your religious education or upbringing. I was questioning your religious reference and its implication.

 

As to integrity and morality, I was not referring to what -you- were saying, but the posts in general on this thread.

 

As Mio stated earlier, this is a support forum for Other Men/ Other Women for those in a relationship with MM/MW. The concept of support is just that - support. Degrading, derisive value judgements are not supportive, are they?

[herenow]

herenow, I was not questioning your religious education or upbringing. I was questioning your religious reference and its implication.

 

As to integrity and morality, I was not referring to what -you- were saying, but the posts in general on this thread.

 

As Mio stated earlier, this is a support forum for Other Men/ Other Women for those in a relationship with MM/MW. The concept of support is just that - support. Degrading, derisive value judgements are not supportive, are they?

 

Again, if this thread has not been at least interesting then I'm sorry you wasted your time. An opposing view can sometimes be the best kind of support. And, I really don't think anyone has been degraded here. But, you do, so I guess that's how you feel and who am I to tell you any different?

[herenow]

Anyway, it's quitting time and I'm off for the weekend. Have a great one!

[bentnotbroken]

It would be, if that's what people would use. But they didn't, and they will continue to use the words "cheat" and "blame". As will you. Feel free to prove me wrong.

 

 

 

 

I'm glad it's been productive for you. I recognise that you are one of the more moderate voices on your side. My beef is that your stance, even though couched in moderate terms, is still the same one that unites a group of loud, negative voices in the OM/W forum.

 

 

 

There's no issue of that here. If you feel that cheat and blame are the best words for this phenomenon, that's your belief and your right. But it's a judgement and I question the place of such a judgement in a forum which is meant to be supportive.

 

 

 

Serious? You don't remember what Jesus said to the adulterous woman? He said, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." When everyone left, he asked, "Hath no man condemned thee?" "No man, Lord." And Jesus said to her, "Neither do I condemn thee. Go, and sin no more."[/quote]

 

 

I always find it interesting when someone pulls one scripture from the bible and use it to justify calling others judgemental. But they tend to ignore the ones where he talks about fornication and adultery. The book of I Corinthians is all about Paul dealing with the wrongs of the people(church people)especially sexual sins. The ten commandments, I am almost certain one of those talks about coveting your neighbors wife, ass, or anything he has.

 

It's funny you can see some steal something and be able to call him a thief. You can see a man slap his wife and he will be called and abuser. You can see a woman smoke meth and she will be called a druggie.You can see a person shoot someone point blank and you can call him a killer. But you can't see someone cheat over and over again and be able to call them a cheater. Why is that?

[GreenEyedLady]

I always find it interesting when someone pulls one scripture from the bible and use it to justify calling others judgemental. But they tend to ignore the ones where he talks about fornication and adultery. The book of I Corinthians is all about Paul dealing with the wrongs of the people(church people)especially sexual sins. The ten commandments, I am almost certain one of those talks about coveting your neighbors wife, ass, or anything he has.

 

It's funny you can see some steal something and be able to call him a thief. You can see a man slap his wife and he will be called and abuser. You can see a woman smoke meth and she will be called a druggie.You can see a person shoot someone point blank and you can call him a killer. But you can't see someone cheat over and over again and be able to call them a cheater. Why is that?

 

I often wonder why ANYONE quotes scripture in this forum. Because honestly, everyone here KNOWS that adultery is less than ideal or they wouldn't worry about the W finding out, would they?

 

And taking into account that most people even agree that adultery is wrong, apparently they don't care that much and spouting Bible verses sure won't deter them.

 

And for those who think adultery isn't wrong, I'm sure they would be singing another tune if the shoe was on the other foot.

 

Bent, a cheater is still a cheater by any other name. He or she cheats their spouse, their OP and themself. Anyone who says different hasn't come to terms with what they are doing and are trying to justify it. (This is not aimed at anyone, just an observation from experience.)

 

Personally, I think it's much more authentic to realize that you're sleeping with someone else's spouse. You're not doing their spouse a favor. At some point you have to accept what you're doing for what it is. And if you don't like how it sounds, then change it.

 

Call a spade a spade. No matter how much you love them. It doesn't mean that they'll always cheat. It means that they're cheating now. And they have a lot of work to do so they don't continue the cycle.

 

GEL

[Mio]

I always find it interesting when someone pulls one scripture from the bible and use it to justify calling others judgemental. But they tend to ignore the ones where he talks about fornication and adultery. The book of I Corinthians is all about Paul dealing with the wrongs of the people(church people)especially sexual sins. The ten commandments, I am almost certain one of those talks about coveting your neighbors wife, ass, or anything he has.

 

I think you are confusing sin and redemption. Adultery is a sin, biblically speaking, but Jesus did not condemn us for our sins. Sin keeps us from God, so Jesus reminds us of that. He does not ask us to go around trying to shame people in his name.

 

 

It's funny you can see some steal something and be able to call him a thief. You can see a man slap his wife and he will be called and abuser. You can see a woman smoke meth and she will be called a druggie.You can see a person shoot someone point blank and you can call him a killer. But you can't see someone cheat over and over again and be able to call them a cheater. Why is that?

 

I object to all these value labels, because every one of them represents a judgment. All of them are still people and worthy of compassionate support.

 

Do you reduce all people to nouns? Is that really how you see your fellow man?

[Mio]

I often wonder why ANYONE quotes scripture in this forum. Because honestly, everyone here KNOWS that adultery is less than ideal or they wouldn't worry about the W finding out, would they?

 

Please read my reply to Bent. Someone asked what Jesus had to say about adultery, so the quotation was relevant and contextual.

[Mio]

The affair did not cause the problems, my H and I did that on own own. The affair made it hard to fix them.

 

I'm very sorry to hear of your situation, herenow. This sentence you have written above is something we have in common.

[GreenEyedLady]

I object to all these value labels, because every one of them represents a judgment. All of them are still people and worthy of compassionate support.

 

You are making a value judgment when you use the word compassionate. Everyone makes value judgments, including you and your questions to Bent suggesting that she has no compassion and is unsupportive and reduces people to labels and nouns.

 

You can't have it both ways.

 

People make judgments and they should. Or there would be no rule of law or order in life. Everyone has a right to their opinion and everyone has a right to disagree with it.

 

If everyone agrees with you, you cannot learn, you cannot grow and you cannot validate your beliefs.

[GreenEyedLady]

Please read my reply to Bent. Someone asked what Jesus had to say about adultery, so the quotation was relevant and contextual.

 

I did read it and I know the scripture.

 

But like I said, it's not a deterrent and pretty out of place in the subject matter. The people who really care about it are not the ones it's aimed at.

 

Thus, I don't understand why it's tossed about frequently here, period.

 

Kind of like, in one ear, out the other, kwim.

[Mio]

You are making a value judgment when you use the word compassionate.

 

Compassion is not a judgment - it's the complete opposite.

 

Can I make it really, really simple? Let God judge. Jesus asks us not to judge each other. We have rules - they are called commandments.

[Mio]

I did read it and I know the scripture.

 

But like I said, it's not a deterrent and pretty out of place in the subject matter. The people who really care about it are not the ones it's aimed at.

 

Thus, I don't understand why it's tossed about frequently here, period.

 

Kind of like, in one ear, out the other, kwim.

 

It's not the scripture I wanted you to read, but rather the reply to Bent. I was explaining how that scripture fits in with the Commandments.

 

Can I make something clear? I'm not trying to defend adultery. I know it hurts people when it happens. I'm merely asking people to be more understanding of it. Coming in here and condemning adultery is about as subtle and pointless as going on an anorexia board and pillorying everyone to eat food.

[GreenEyedLady]

Compassion is not a judgment - it's the complete opposite.

 

Can I make it really, really simple? Let God judge. Jesus asks us not to judge each other. We have rules - they are called commandments.

 

It is wonderful to have that as an ideal but it's not very realistic. And we do have commandments, but how many has everyone broken lately?

 

We make judgments we feel are best for our life. They keep you and your family safe. I personally don't care what other people do, but it doesn't mean I don't have an opinion about it.

 

You made a judgment that everyone needs compassionate support. How is that not a value call? You are determining the type of support and what the conditions of that are.

 

And I don't think that telling people they are bad or sinners is an effective way of getting through to people. But I've been here awhile and that is nothing compared to the battles that I was in when I first got here. Everyone has the ultimate judgment call-if you don't like what poster says, put them on ignore.

 

I'm sure I'm on ignore for plenty of posters.

[bentnotbroken]

It's not the scripture I wanted you to read, but rather the reply to Bent. I was explaining how that scripture fits in with the Commandments.

 

Can I make something clear? I'm not trying to defend adultery. I know it hurts people when it happens. I'm merely asking people to be more understanding of it. Coming in here and condemning adultery is about as subtle and pointless as going on an anorexia board and pillorying everyone to eat food.

 

 

Just how do I tell my children, nieces and nephews understand it? How do I get them to understand, that you father/uncle is no longer interested in being in your lives. He has found a new play mate, and he doesn't have time for you anymore.